Luke 7:30 examples of those who reject the purpose of God for themselves

[Iconoclast]

The Law In The Heart - Marilyn Laszlo dedicated her life to giving the Hauna people of New Guinea the Bible in their own language. As she worked on the translation, she came to the word for “sin.” When Marilyn asked the people what they thought sin was, they told her, “It’s when you lie.” “It’s when you steal.” (Ed note: cp Ex 20:15) “It’s when you kill.” (cp Ex 20:13) “It’s when you take another man’s wife.” (cp Ex 20:14) Marilyn was astounded. They were giving her God’s standards as spelled out in the Ten Commandments. “God’s law is written on the heart of man,” she later commented, underscoring the truth found in Romans 2:14-15.

What a remarkable verification of biblical truth! Our faith is strengthened by accounts like this. But there’s something else. If each person on earth is aware of sin (which is true even though some deny it), we need to make sure everyone hears the remedy. Jesus paid the penalty for sin and offers all sinners a life free from bondage.

God put His law in our heart, but we can never live up to its requirements (Ro 3:23; Jas 2:10; 1Jn 1:8). The law shows us how enslaved we are by sin, but God’s grace to us through Christ brings liberty. If we have experienced that forgiveness and freedom, it’s up to us to share the good news with others.

The perfect Law of God reveals
The dreadful state we're in;
But when we put our faith in Christ,
We're cleansed from all our sin.
—Sper

God's law shows us a need
that only God's grace can supply.

 

[Iconoclast]

I prefer 'enemies of reformed doctrine'.

When people say reformed doctrine is "another gospel", or has"another" Jesus, they are saying...you are unsaved, a false teacher, not a brother.It is just a polite way of saying it.
1jn2
21 I have not written unto you because ye know not the truth, but because ye know it, and that no lie is of the truth.

22 Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son.

23 Whosoever denieth the Son, the same hath not the Father: he that acknowledgeth the Son hath the Father also.

2jn:
9 Whosoever transgresseth, and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God. He that abideth in the doctrine of Christ, he hath both the Father and the Son.

10 If there come any unto you, and bring not this doctrine, receive him not into your house, neither bid him God speed:

11 For he that biddeth him God speed is partaker of his evil deeds.
3jn:
9 I wrote unto the church: but Diotrephes, who loveth to have the preeminence among them, receiveth us not.

10 Wherefore, if I come, I will remember his deeds which he doeth, prating against us with malicious words: and not content therewith, neither doth he himself receive the brethren, and forbiddeth them that would, and casteth them out of the church.

 

[JLB]

We define "the world" as "a great multitude which no one could number, of all nations, tribes, peoples, and tongues, standing before the throne and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, with palm branches in their hands, and crying out with a loud voice, saying, 'Salvation belongs to our God who sits on the throne, and to the Lamb!'"

The world refers to those who are in need of salvation.

Biblical definition of world = Those who are lost and need salvation. Those who are in the kingdom of darkness, under the domain of Satan.
The world system under the control of Satan.

For all that is in the world—the lust of the flesh, the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life—is not of the Father but is of the world. And the world is passing away, and the lust of it; but he who does the will of God abides forever. 1 John 2:16-17

Do not marvel, my brethren, if the world hates you. 1 John 3:13


Behold what manner of love the Father has bestowed on us, that we should be called children of God! Therefore the world does not know us, because it did not know Him. 1 John 3:1

The world refers to those that do not “know Him”.



Why would God send His Son to pay a horrible price on the cross for people who are already saved?


For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life.
John 3:16


Those in the world who are lost must believe the Gospel in order to be saved.




JLB

 

[Iconoclast]

Yes and your statement perfectly sums up their mindset (stronghold).

They are followers of John Calvin and his teachings, therefore they reject the teachings of Jesus Christ… all the while claiming “you don’t understand”.


For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life.
John 3:16


In their “mind”, they systematically redefine the term “the world” to mean “the elect”.


This is done throughout the scriptures.


This is what Jesus said of those who added the teachings of man (traditions) to the word of God.


“Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you travel land and sea to win one proselyte, and when he is won, you make him twice as much a son of hell as yourselves. Matthew 23:15




JLB

You suggest that Calvin did not follow the teachings of Jesus?
In your world Calvin is not allowed to read what Jesus taught?
According to you all the reformers and puritans have not read the scriptures?
Spurgeon did not read the scriptures?

Only you and the other non cals have read the scripture?
All the teachers in church history never really read the scriptures, they just wrote...books of men?
All who make such empty claims have not gotten past the tip of the iceberg when it comes to theology.

Let me guess??? It is just you and your bible, and the Holy Spirit...you have no need that any man teach you

 

[Jethro Bodine]

When people say reformed doctrine is "another gospel", or has"another" Jesus, they are saying...you are unsaved, a false teacher, not a brother.It is just a polite way of saying it.

I don't think I've ever heard someone say Reformed doctrine, specifically, Calvinism, is 'another gospel'.

I don't consider it 'another gospel'. I mean the original Calvinistic teachings as I've heard them. I do notice that people are changing the original teaching and making it into something weird, but I still don't consider it another gospel. Not yet.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

Ray Stedman - Now, men are continually charging God with injustice because, they say, He condemns men to hell who have never heard of Jesus Christ. This is the most frequently voiced charge against the Christian gospel. We are always hearing somebody say, "Well, what about the heathen who never hear about Christ? How can a just God condemn them to hell without their hearing about Christ?" But, you see, God never condemns anybody on that basis. As we are told right here...That is, if you disobey the truth that you have, even though you have never heard of Moses or of Christ, you perish, not because you didn't hear of Moses or of Christ, but because you have disobeyed truth that you already know -- that is the whole point. If you know of Moses and of Christ, and you still disobey the truth, you perish also, because your condemnation is even greater -- because of the greater light involved. (Ed note: See above for discussion of the principle of judgment proportionate to light received) But, as it says here, even pagans have a form of basic law written on their hearts, and this is the basis of God's just condemnation of man. It is because they are not what they themselves know they ought to be. In other words, God judges you, not by some artificial standard of His, but by your own standard. (The Secrets of Men)

This article completely ignores the fact that Paul says some will be acquitted on the basis of the law written on their hearts, "their thoughts either accusing or defending them 16on the day when God will judge men’s secrets through Christ Jesus,b as proclaimed by my gospel." - Romans 2:15-16.

 

[JLB]

You suggest that Calvin did not follow the teachings of Jesus?

Calvinism is the teachings (doctrine) of John Calvin.

The scriptures are the teachings (doctrine) of Christ.

Why would you want to follow the teaching of man, rather than following the teachings of Christ from the scriptures?


Did Calvin die on the cross for you?
Were you baptized into John Calvin?


Now I plead with you, brethren, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that you all speak the same thing, and that there be no divisions among you, but that you be perfectly joined together in the same mind and in the same judgment. For it has been declared to me concerning you, my brethren, by those of Chloe’s household, that there are contentions among you. Now I say this, that each of you says, “I am of Paul,” or “I am of Apollos,” or “I am of Cephas,” or “I am of Christ.” Is Christ divided? Was Paul crucified for you? Or were you baptized in the name of Paul? 1 Corinthians 1:10-13





JLB

 

[Iconoclast]

I don't think I've ever heard someone say Reformed doctrine, specifically, Calvinism, is 'another gospel'.

I don't consider it 'another gospel'. I mean the original Calvinistic teachings as I've heard them. I do notice that people are changing the original teaching and making it into something weird, but I still don't consider it another gospel. Not yet.

Yes JB..I believe you are sincere and you yourself would not make such a foolish claim. That is why we can interact and even differ, knowing that we are blood brothers I have been on many boards and have seen many who do not fell that way....One day I will do a thread listing the lying professed Christians and how they show their "love", for believers who post on the doctrines of grace.

 

[Iconoclast]

Calvinism is the teachings (doctrine) of John Calvin.

No...it is the teaching of the scriptures as taught by Jesus ,the apostles, and prophets, and believed on by those who are labeled Calvinists

The scriptures are the teachings (doctrine) of Christ.

Yes and when described in a systematic way are know today as Calvinism.

Why would you want to follow the teaching of man, rather than following the teachings of Christ from the scriptures?

JLB.... all who want truth desire to find it in scriptures. Anyone can claim they follow scripture but if you notice there are many different ideas on what that truth is. I myself align myself with historic confessions of faith, as to define what is contained in scripture. We all stand somewhere. If I had time, I could go through all your posts and print -
the Confession of faith of JLB

Did Calvin die on the cross for you?
Were you baptized into John Calvin?

No, Calvin and the Puritans did not die for me. However they wrote much helpful teaching about Jesus, things that you have not even considered as of yet.

Now I plead with you, brethren, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that you all speak the same thing, and that there be no divisions among you, but that you be perfectly joined together in the same mind and in the same judgment. For it has been declared to me concerning you, my brethren, by those of Chloe’s household, that there are contentions among you. Now I say this, that each of you says, “I am of Paul,” or “I am of Apollos,” or “I am of Cephas,” or “I am of Christ.” Is Christ divided? Was Paul crucified for you? Or were you baptized in the name of Paul? 1 Corinthians 1:10-13

Sectarianism is a danger and to be avoided for sure. The other extreme is to avoid all teachers God has given to the churches. JLB...do you have any books written by men on your bookshelf?

JLB

 

[atpollard]

God's law shows us a need
that only God's grace can supply.

Like Paul said ... the Law only brings death. Natural men stand condemned by natural Law, Israel stands condemned by the Law of Moses and those who hear and reject the Gospel stand condemned by their rejection of "so great a salvation".

LIFE is found in Christ (from the Heavens declaring His glory for all to see, to the promise to Eve, to our glorious Gospel) ... we throw ourselves on His mercy or we stand condemned.

 

[JLB]

Let me guess??? It is just you and your bible, and the Holy Spirit...you have no need that any man teach you

I attend Church and my Pastor teaches and preaches every Sunday.

He teaches from the scriptures, plainly and clearly.

He doesn’t teach from other men’s commentary.

It’s up to each of us to check for ourselves in the scriptures, as The Bereans did to validate everything being taught by Pastors and teachers.


Also we are expected at some point to be able to learn from the Holy Spirit as we study to show ourselves approved, to teach others the truth from the scriptures.


For though by this time you ought to be teachers, you need someone to teach you again the first principles of the oracles of God; and you have come to need milk and not solid food. Hebrews 5:12


Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth. 2 Timothy 2:15


But you must continue in the things which you have learned and been assured of, knowing from whom you have learned them, and that from childhood you have known the Holy Scriptures, which are able to make you wise for salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus. 2 Timothy 3:14-15


It’s by knowing the Holy Scriptures, that we become wise unto salvation.


Not by knowing the doctrines of man.


Whoever transgresses and does not abide in the doctrine of Christ does not have God. He who abides in the doctrine of Christ has both the Father and the Son. 2 John 9


As we see from the scriptures, those who do not remain in the doctrine of Christ, do not have God.


When a person goes beyond the teachings of the Lord Jesus Christ, and begins to believe and practice and promote teachings that are not from Him, they do not have God.

Now the Spirit expressly says that in latter times some will depart from the faith, giving heed to deceiving spirits and doctrines of demons, 1 Timothy 4:1


Do you believe that a person who departs from the faith is still saved?





JLB

 

[JLB]

JLB.... all who want truth desire to find it in scriptures. Anyone can claim they follow scripture but if you notice there are many different ideas on what that truth is.

Some claim the teachings of Calvinism, and Hyper Grace is the truth while others believe the scriptures are the truth.

 

[atpollard]

Why would God send His Son to pay a horrible price on the cross for people who are already saved?

Revelation 7 is a future event in heaven ... we are not Home yet. The "world" that God loves is the "world" that God will save, not the "world" that God will pour out His wrath upon.

 

[JLB]

Yes and when described in a systematic way are know today as Calvinism.

Not even close.


Here is what Jesus taught —

For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life.
John 3:16



Here is what Calvinism teaches —

For God so loved the world the elect that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him is predestined to be saved should not perish but have everlasting life. Calvinism 3:16


Which one is the truth?




JLB

 

[atpollard]

Those in the world who are lost must believe the Gospel in order to be saved.

"not of yourselves; it is the gift of God" [Ephesians 2]

 

[atpollard]

Calvinism is the teachings (doctrine) of John Calvin.

False ... but you have already been told this.

 

[JLB]

The Law In The Heart - Marilyn Laszlo dedicated her life to giving the Hauna people of New Guinea the Bible in their own language. As she worked on the translation, she came to the word for “sin.” When Marilyn asked the people what they thought sin was, they told her, “It’s when you lie.” “It’s when you steal.” (Ed note: cp Ex 20:15) “It’s when you kill.” (cp Ex 20:13) “It’s when you take another man’s wife.” (cp Ex 20:14) Marilyn was astounded. They were giving her God’s standards as spelled out in the Ten Commandments. “God’s law is written on the heart of man,” she later commented, underscoring the truth found in Romans 2:14-15.

What a remarkable verification of biblical truth! Our faith is strengthened by accounts like this. But there’s something else. If each person on earth is aware of sin (which is true even though some deny it), we need to make sure everyone hears the remedy. Jesus paid the penalty for sin and offers all sinners a life free from bondage.

God put His law in our heart, but we can never live up to its requirements (Ro 3:23; Jas 2:10; 1Jn 1:8). The law shows us how enslaved we are by sin, but God’s grace to us through Christ brings liberty. If we have experienced that forgiveness and freedom, it’s up to us to share the good news with others.

The perfect Law of God reveals
The dreadful state we're in;
But when we put our faith in Christ,
We're cleansed from all our sin.
—Sper

God's law shows us a need
that only God's grace can supply.

So when you say, “cleansed from all sin” do you mean the moment we are saved, we are cleansed from our sins, past present and future?


Or do you mean when we are saved we are forgiven our past sins, and must confess any sin we commit from point on to be forgiven and cleansed from our sins according to 1 John 1:9


If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. 1 John 1:9

If means there is a condition that must be met.

That condition is to confess our sins.


The way born again Christians are forgiven and cleansed from their sins is by confessing there sins.


Take heed to yourselves. If your brother sins against you, rebuke him; and if he repents, forgive him. And if he sins against you seven times in a day, and seven times in a day returns to you, saying, ‘I repent,’ you shall forgive him.” Luke 17:3-4




JLB

 

[JLB]

False ... but you have already been told this.

If Calvinism is not the teaching of John Calvin then why is it called Calvinism?


Calvinism , the theology advanced by John Calvin, a Protestant reformer in the 16th century, and its development by his followers. The term also refers to doctrines and practices derived from the works of Calvin and his followers that are characteristic of the Reformed churches.

Calvinism | Description & History

Calvinism , the theology advanced by John Calvin, a Protestant reformer in the 16th century, and its development by his followers. The term also refers to doctrines and practices derived from the works of Calvin and his followers that are characteristic of the Reformed churches. The Calvinist...

www.britannica.com

JLB

 

[JLB]

"not of yourselves; it is the gift of God" [Ephesians 2]

What does this have to do with the condition of “believe” Jesus taught us is required for a person to be saved; have eternal life.


Those by the wayside are the ones who hear; then the devil comes and takes away the word out of their hearts, lest they should believe and be saved. Luke 8:12


The thing that prevented this group from being saved is they didn’t believe.

• lest they should believe and be saved.

again


For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life.
John 3:16


A person must believe in order to be saved.



that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved. Romans 10:9



JLB

 

[Iconoclast]

Good post JLB, we are getting somewhere now.

I attend Church and my Pastor teaches and preaches every Sunday.

He teaches from the scriptures, plainly and clearly.

I am glad to hear that many avoid scripture sadly

He doesn’t teach from other men’s commentary.

Let's think about this for a minute or two.
Is your pastor only standing and doing a public reading of the scripture itself?
Does your pastor attempt to break it down for the congregation?
Does he do a word study? Does he mention a greek word means thus and so?
Does he say anything that he thinks about what the passage means to him? or to the assembled church?

Now JLB...if they recorded his sermon, and I requested a transcript to read and study...would you or I be reading the works of a man? All teachers listed in EPH.4 11-16 are men who TEACH.
So the obvious question is are you infact listening to the words of a man? God hath commanded it?
So why is it different if a person reads and studies about Jesus through the eyes of a more gifted and mature person?
Was Philip wrong here? Should Philip have said, no read it on your own?
Acts8:
29 Then the Spirit said unto Philip, Go near, and join thyself to this chariot.

30 And Philip ran thither to him, and heard him read the prophet Esaias, and said, Understandest thou what thou readest?

31 And he said, How can I, except some man should guide me? And he desired Philip that he would come up and sit with him.

32 The place of the scripture which he read was this, He was led as a sheep to the slaughter; and like a lamb dumb before his shearer, so opened he not his mouth:

33 In his humiliation his judgment was taken away: and who shall declare his generation? for his life is taken from the earth.

34 And the eunuch answered Philip, and said, I pray thee, of whom speaketh the prophet this? of himself, or of some other man?

35 Then Philip opened his mouth, and began at the same scripture, and preached unto him Jesus

It’s up to each of us to check for ourselves in the scriptures, as The Bereans did to validate everything being taught by Pastors and teachers.

agreed

Also we are expected at some point to be able to learn from the Holy Spirit as we study to show ourselves approved, to teach others the truth from the scriptures.

agreed

For though by this time you ought to be teachers, you need someone to teach you again the first principles of the oracles of God; and you have come to need milk and not solid food. Hebrews 5:12

agreed

Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth. 2 Timothy 2:15

agreed

But you must continue in the things which you have learned and been assured of, knowing from whom you have learned them, and that from childhood you have known the Holy Scriptures, which are able to make you wise for salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus. 2 Timothy 3:14-15

It’s by knowing the Holy Scriptures, that we become wise unto salvation.

agreed

Not by knowing the doctrines of man.

if those doctrines are found in scripture, it is the doctrine of Christ, not the doctrine of men

JLB