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Luke 7:30 examples of those who reject the purpose of God for themselves

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atpollard said:
Here you go ... just follow the LINK (I explained exactly WHY according to the Reformed soteriological paradigm).
Click to expand...
I was just thinking of this and maybe need to apologize.

I know I keep repeating that only the reformed believe this or that and no other "denomination".

Not doing this to be mean-hearted.
But to, maybe, make you wonder why.

Do you ever wonder Why your beliefs are so different?
 
wondering said:
We all believe [say] only God is due the Glory.
Click to expand...
Theology speaks louder than words.

CALVINISM: Only God saves, and He does it alone.
FREE WILL: God allows me to decide and my salvation is a cooperative partnership.

John 6:44 No one means no one! Draw means draw!
John 10:26 "Because you are not my sheep" means "because you are not my sheep" vs John 10:27 "My sheep" means "My sheep" and John 10:29 "whom the Father has given to me" means "whom the Father has has given to me" and makes all the difference between "not my sheep" and "my sheep".
Romans 8:28 "His purpose" means "His purpose" and Romans 8:29-30 "He" means "He" (not "we") and "foreknew, predestined, called, justified and glorified" all mean HE did exactly that!
 
atpollard said:
Theology speaks louder than words.

CALVINISM: Only God saves, and He does it alone.
FREE WILL: God allows me to decide and my salvation is a cooperative partnership.

John 6:44 No one means no one! Draw means draw!
John 10:26 "Because you are not my sheep" means "because you are not my sheep" vs John 10:27 "My sheep" means "My sheep" and John 10:29 "whom the Father has given to me" means "whom the Father has has given to me" and makes all the difference between "not my sheep" and "my sheep".
Romans 8:28 "His purpose" means "His purpose" and Romans 8:29-30 "He" means "He" (not "we") and "foreknew, predestined, called, justified and glorified" all mean HE did exactly that!
Click to expand...
Thanks A.
I also went to the link.
Still out of commission.
Maybe tomorrow...
 
Jethro Bodine said:
Key: "In Him"
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Did He choose us?
Did He make that choice before the foundation of the world?

Before you answer: Ephesians 1:4 [NKJV] "just as He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before Him in love,"

If you still answer "no", then just sharpie out everything except "in Him" (it has no meaning, anyway). 😉
 
Jethro Bodine said:
Are you able as God's servant to show me that Romans 2:14-16 does not talk about people who don't have the revelation of the gospel in the law and how they will be condemned or acquitted on the basis of the revelation of God they have received through nature and conscience alone?
Click to expand...
Nope Im not able to help you, if I could, you would have been helped by now, for I have discussed Salvation matters in many different threads I started.
 
atpollard said:
Did He choose us?
Did He make that choice before the foundation of the world?

Before you answer: Ephesians 1:4 [NKJV] "just as He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before Him in love,"

If you still answer "no", then just sharpie out everything except "in Him". 😉
Click to expand...
Post 109

And yes, God does the choosing, but based on conditions that HE has set.

Will post with verses tomorrow...
Sorry.
 
wondering said:
And yes, God does the choosing, but based on conditions that HE has set.
Click to expand...
What conditions did you and I meet before the foundation of the world?
I wasn't born until the 1960's.
My parents weren't born until the 1930's.
My grandparents weren't born until the 1900's.
 
atpollard said:
What conditions did you and I meet before the foundation of the world?
I wasn't born until 1962.
Click to expand...
God knew we would meet His conditions.
He foreknew, He didn't predestine.
The one and only plan is in Genesis 3:15.
God knew Adam would sin. He planned ahead for those that wanted to be saved.

You probably believe in the Penal Sibstitution atonement theory.

Jesus died in our place.
Why?
If God does the choosing?
Why, unless Jesus is the standard by which we are saved.

I should read your link first.
No can do right now.
 
atpollard said:
What conditions did you and I meet before the foundation of the world?
I wasn't born until the 1960's.
My parents weren't born until the 1930's.
My grandparents weren't born until the 1900's.
Click to expand...
If you review the context of Paul's teaching about election you'll see that he contrasting faith vs. works. A person is elected on the basis of faith in God, not works. Calvinism strays out of those boundaries and takes election out of the context of faith in the Promise.
 
wondering said:
He foreknew, He didn't predestine.
Click to expand...
Romans 8:28-30 [NKJV]
28 And we know that all things work together for good to those who love God, to those who are the called according to His purpose. 29 For whom He foreknew, He also predestined to be conformed to the image of His Son, that He might be the firstborn among many brethren. 30 Moreover whom He predestined, these He also called; whom He called, these He also justified; and whom He justified, these He also glorified.
  • "those who are the called according to His purpose" ... according to WHOSE purpose?
  • "whom He foreknew" ... WHO foreknew? [GOD foreknew] ... God foreknew "whom" (people) not "what" (actions or decisions). "Foreknew" is a RELATIONSHIP not INTELLECTUAL KNOWLEDGE.
  • "He also predestined" ... excuse me, what did that say? ... Did that just say GOD predestined? ... let me read it again ... why yes it did. 😉
 
wondering said:
You probably believe in the Penal Substitution atonement theory.
Click to expand...
Actually, I am a Christus Victor fan ... I can't actually find WRATH against any innocent or against even sin ... WRATH seems reserved for the final punishment on the Day of Wrath (until then, the guilty store up wrath for the day of wrath) ... Jesus does not fit that definition.
 
atpollard said:
Romans 8:28-30 [NKJV]
28 And we know that all things work together for good to those who love God, to those who are the called according to His purpose. 29 For whom He foreknew, He also predestined to be conformed to the image of His Son, that He might be the firstborn among many brethren. 30 Moreover whom He predestined, these He also called; whom He called, these He also justified; and whom He justified, these He also glorified.
  • "those who are the called according to His purpose" ... according to WHOSE purpose?
  • "whom He foreknew" ... WHO foreknew? [GOD foreknew] ... God foreknew "whom" (people) not "what" (actions or decisions). "Foreknew" is a RELATIONSHIP not INTELLECTUAL KNOWLEDGE.
  • "He also predestined" ... excuse me, what did that say? ... Did that just say GOD predestined? ... let me read it again ... why yes it did. 😉
Click to expand...
WHAT did God predestine?
 
atpollard said:
Actually, I am a Christus Victor fan ... I can't actually find WRATH against any innocent or against even sin ... WRATH seems reserved for the final punishment on the Day of Wrath (until then, the guilty store up wrath for the day of wrath) ... Jesus does not fit that definition.
Click to expand...
Agreed.
I'll take any theory over PS.
 
atpollard said:
Romans 8:28-30 [NKJV]
28 And we know that all things work together for good to those who love God, to those who are the called according to His purpose. 29 For whom He foreknew, He also predestined to be conformed to the image of His Son, that He might be the firstborn among many brethren. 30 Moreover whom He predestined, these He also called; whom He called, these He also justified; and whom He justified, these He also glorified.
  • "those who are the called according to His purpose" ... according to WHOSE purpose?
  • "whom He foreknew" ... WHO foreknew? [GOD foreknew] ... God foreknew "whom" (people) not "what" (actions or decisions). "Foreknew" is a RELATIONSHIP not INTELLECTUAL KNOWLEDGE.
  • "He also predestined" ... excuse me, what did that say? ... Did that just say GOD predestined? ... let me read it again ... why yes it did. 😉
Click to expand...
Let's please leave this for tomorrow.
 
wondering said:
Actually, it's what is taught by Christianity.
From the year 33AD, approx, to today.
Click to expand...
In your mind it is :confused2 with no basis in fact. The words do not mean in scripture what you non cals suggest.
We do not have to search in history to find apostates who might suggest other things.
In fact is it is not taught by Christianity even today.
 
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