Is Jesus God?

[TonyChanYT]

Yes according to Romans 9:

5 Theirs are the patriarchs, and from them proceeds the human descent of Christ, who is God over all, forever worthy of praise! Amen.

Is Jesus = God?

The equal sign carries mathematical import. In some sense, this is true; in some other sense, it is not. It is better to stick to the wording of the Bible and not to over-generalize. God (or Godhead) is a complex concept in the Bible. God and Jesus are distinct manifestations.

Jesus says in Luke‬ ‭8:

39‬ "Return to your home, and declare how much God has done for you." And he went away, proclaiming throughout the whole city how much Jesus had done for him.

The above is a significant parallel between God and Jesus.

The church obtained by Jesus is the church of God in Acts 20:

28 Pay careful attention to yourselves and to all the flock, in which the Holy Spirit has made you overseers, to care for the church of God, which he obtained with his own blood.

Paul describes some bodily mechanics in Colossians 1:

19 For God was pleased to have all his fullness dwell in him [Jesus]

Colossians 2:

9 For in Christ all the fullness of the Deity lives in bodily form,

Titus 2:

13 [We are] waiting for our blessed hope, the appearing of the glory of our great God and Savior Jesus Christ.

The phrase could refer to one or two entities. Either way is fine.

2 Peter 1 echoes the same concept:

1 Simon Peter, a servant and apostle of Jesus Christ, To those who through the righteousness of our God and Savior Jesus Christ have received a faith as precious as ours:

Christ is God.

Now, let statement H = ∀h, if h is a human, then h is not God.

One can produce logical proofs/evidences that Jesus was a human because Jesus was born a man. But then we cannot apply H to Jesus. Jesus is the unique exception to that rule.

At the same time, one can also find logical proofs that Jesus is God because he is.

So how do I resolve the issue?

I look at two sets of proofs/evidences/arguments:

1. Jesus is God.
2. Jesus is not God, ignoring the ones that merely prove that Jesus was a man.

I assign a weight to each argument in the two sets according to this weighting scheme: I overweight direct statements over implied conclusions. I overweight simple arguments over complicated ones.

So far, according to my weighting, Jesus is God comfortably outweighs the opposite.

BTW, I have not heard of a proof of "Jesus is not God" that I didn't already know 10 years ago, i.e., in the last 10 years, I haven't heard anything new concerning Jesus is not God.

Next, is Jesus the Son of God?

John 10:

36 do you say of him whom the Father consecrated and sent into the world, ‘You are blaspheming,’ because I said, ‘I am the Son of God’?

Jesus claims that he is the Son of God.

How can Jesus be both God and Son of God?

With humans, that is impossible but not with God. Jesus continued:

38b "even though you do not believe me, believe the works, that you may know and understand that the Father is in me and I am in the Father.”

Yes, this is a first-order logical mystery. By faith, I believe that Jesus is God and Jesus is the Son of God. It is a mysterious divine nature/attribute.

See also No one is good—except God alone.

 

[miamited]

Hi TonyChanYT

I've always been comfortable with seeing things as God seems to see them. "This is my Son, in whom I am well pleased."

Jesus is God's Son.

God bless,
Ted

 

[Mungo]

Yes according to Romans 9:


Is Jesus = God?

The equal sign carries mathematical import. In some sense, this is true; in some other sense, it is not. It is better to stick to the wording of the Bible and not to over-generalize. God (or Godhead) is a complex concept in the Bible. God and Jesus are distinct manifestations.

Jesus says in Luke‬ ‭8:


The above is a significant parallel between God and Jesus.

The church obtained by Jesus is the church of God in Acts 20:


Paul describes some bodily mechanics in Colossians 1:


Colossians 2:


Titus 2:


The phrase could refer to one or two entities. Either way is fine.

2 Peter 1 echoes the same concept:


Christ is God.

Now, let statement H = ∀h, if h is a human, then h is not God.

One can produce logical proofs/evidences that Jesus was a human because Jesus was born a man. But then we cannot apply H to Jesus. Jesus is the unique exception to that rule.

At the same time, one can also find logical proofs that Jesus is God because he is.

So how do I resolve the issue?

I look at two sets of proofs/evidences/arguments:

1. Jesus is God.
2. Jesus is not God, ignoring the ones that merely prove that Jesus was a man.

I assign a weight to each argument in the two sets according to this weighting scheme: I overweight direct statements over implied conclusions. I overweight simple arguments over complicated ones.

So far, according to my weighting, Jesus is God comfortably outweighs the opposite.

BTW, I have not heard of a proof of "Jesus is not God" that I didn't already know 10 years ago, i.e., in the last 10 years, I haven't heard anything new concerning Jesus is not God.

Next, is Jesus the Son of God?

John 10:


Jesus claims that he is the Son of God.

How can Jesus be both God and Son of God?

With humans, that is impossible but not with God. Jesus continued:


Yes, this is a first-order logical mystery. By faith, I believe that Jesus is God and Jesus is the Son of God. It is a mysterious divine nature/attribute.

See also No one is good—except God alone.

All of this was discussed in the early Councils of the Church.
The understandings they came to was that God is Trinity - 3 persons, one being.
When the second person of the Trinity - the Son - assumed human nature it was in addition to His divine nature so He has two natures, human and divine.

 

[Mr. G Lee]

All of this was discussed in the early Councils of the Church.
The understandings they came to was that God is Trinity - 3 persons, one being.
When the second person of the Trinity - the Son - assumed human nature it was in addition to His divine nature so He has two natures, human and divine.

Eternal God does not have natures "beginnings" .He is the beginning of sola scriptura and the end ."Let there be" . . .and :"It was God good".

Church councils are private interptation as oral traditions or called the confederacy a government of dying mankind.

Isaiah 8:12 Say ye not, A confederacy, to all them to whom this people shall say, A confederacy; neither fear ye their fear, nor be afraid.

 

[Mungo]

Eternal God does not have natures "beginnings" .He is the beginning of sola scriptura and the end ."Let there be" . . .and :"It was God good".

Church councils are private interptation as oral traditions or called the confederacy a government of dying mankind.

Isaiah 8:12 Say ye not, A confederacy, to all them to whom this people shall say, A confederacy; neither fear ye their fear, nor be afraid.

Please stop reducing sensible discussions to incoherent ramblings.

 

[TonyChanYT]

When the second person of the Trinity - the Son - assumed human nature it was in addition to His divine nature so He has two natures, human and divine.

I try to avoid using the term "Trinity" because the word is not in the Bible.

 

[Mungo]

I try to avoid using the term "Trinity" because the word is not in the Bible.

Why should every word or phrase be in the Bible?
Does the Bible say that it should?

 

[TonyChanYT]

Why should every word or phrase be in the Bible?

Can you quote my words where I asserted that?

Does the Bible say that it should?

No.

 

[GodsGrace]

Hi TonyChanYT

I've always been comfortable with seeing things as God seems to see them. "This is my Son, in whom I am well pleased."

Jesus is God's Son.

God bless,
Ted

Does this relationship also cause Jesus to be God?

 

[TonyChanYT]

Does this relationship also cause Jesus to be God?

Good question

 

[miamited]

Does this relationship also cause Jesus to be God?

Hi wondering

The relationship that I'm speaking of causes Jesus to be God's Son. It also causes the reverse relationship that Jesus testified to; that God is his Father. There are a number of instances where Jesus refers to God as his Father. So for me, I'm perfectly happy with understanding the relationship between Jesus and God just as the two who are involved and actually know their relationship, seem to understand it.

God bless,
Ted

 

[GodsGrace]

Hi wondering

The relationship that I'm speaking of causes Jesus to be God's Son. It also causes the reverse relationship that Jesus testified to; that God is his Father. There are a number of instances where Jesus refers to God as his Father.

God bless,
Ted

If you have a son, is he a human?

God's Son is necessarily also God.

Are there 2 Gods?
No.

So we must find a way to reconcile this.

This was done by the young Christian church by minds better than ours.

Because something is not easy for you to understand, does not make it untrue.

 

[miamited]

It's also worth considering, I believe, that God cannot die.

Yet the Scriptures are quite clear that Jesus did die and that he is the 'firstborn' of the dead. Paul wrote that about him:

But Christ has indeed been raised from the dead, the firstfruits of those who have fallen asleep.

God bless,
Ted

 

[miamited]

If you have a son, is he a human?

God's Son is necessarily also God.

Are there 2 Gods?
No.

So we must find a way to reconcile this.

This was done by the young Christian church by minds better than ours.

Because something is not easy for you to understand, does not make it untrue.

Hi wondering

I honestly don't see the logic in your initial claim. Why my son being a human means that God's son is God is outside of my realm of understanding.

No, there are not two gods. There is God and there is Jesus. Two separate and distinct entities. There is only one God and He is the Father of our Savior, Jesus.

You are correct that because something is not easy to understand does not make it true, but then neither does the reverse. That because something is easy to understand does make it true.

God bless,
Ted

 

[GodsGrace]

It's also worth considering, I believe, that God cannot die.

Yet the Scriptures are quite clear that Jesus did die and that he is the 'firstborn' of the dead. Paul wrote that about him:

But Christ has indeed been raised from the dead, the firstfruits of those who have fallen asleep.

God bless,
Ted

Has anyone but God ever come back to life ?
Has anyone but God ever had the power to bring someone back to life?
Did Jesus ever bring anyone back from the dead?

 

[miamited]

If you have a son, is he a human?

God's Son is necessarily also God.

BTW wouldn't that mean that Adam and Eve weren't human, either? They didn't have a human father or mother.

God bless,
Ted

 

[miamited]

Has anyone but God ever come back to life ?
Has anyone but God ever had the power to bring someone back to life?
Did Jesus ever bring anyone back from the dead?

Hi Again wondering

Those are questions that we can't answer with the evidence available. As far as I know, God has never come back to life.
Wasn't there an account in the old covenant of some great prophet of God bringing a woman's son back to life? Does that mean that he was God, too, and we just missed it?

God bless,
Ted

 

[GodsGrace]

BTW wouldn't that mean that Adam and Eve weren't human, either? They didn't have a human father or mother.

God bless,
Ted

Did they have a belly button?

God could make whatever He wants to make.

 

[GodsGrace]

Hi wondering

I honestly don't see the logic in your initial claim. Why my son being a human means that God's son is God is outside of my realm of understanding.

No, there are not two gods. There is God and there is Jesus. Two separate and distinct entities. There is only one God and He is the Father of our Savior, Jesus.

You are correct that because something is not easy to understand does not make it true, but then neither does the reverse. That because something is easy to understand does make it true.

God bless,
Ted

The Trinity is not easy to understand.
But, actually, I have come to a good understanding.

Just throwing some ideas out.

If God has Son,
That being is a God.

But there are not 2 Gods.

So....

 

[miamited]

Hi again wondering

God could make whatever He wants to make.

Yes, He can. That also allows that my understanding could be as correct as yours, as far as whether or not God could do such a thing. But apart from all of this existential ruminations that we believers are truly fond of 'working out', I'm going to stick with the Scriptures on this. Jesus is God's Son. God said so. God is Jesus' Father. Jesus said so. If anyone should know the relationship between God and Jesus, I'm going with how they see it.

But, actually, I have come to a good understanding.

I have, too.

God bless,
Ted