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Sola Fide is Unbibical Error

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Sola Fide is Unbibical Error

Sola Fide, which literally means, “Faith Alone”, is a teaching by the so called “Reformed”, such as some “Calvinists”, and some Baptists, who say that sinners only require “Faith”, in order to be saved.

In the first place, “Faith Alone” is only used once in the entire Bible, in the Letter of James, where it says: “You see then that a man is justified by works, and not by faith only”. The use here is in the negative, for salvation. What does James mean here by “Justified by Works”? He does not mean something that sinners can “merit” by “Good Works”, and “earn” themselves salvation. This is Heresy! I believe a good example of this can be found in the third chapter of the Book of Jonah. After Jonah had preached his Message from God, the king issued a decree, that everyone from the greatest to the least, should be sorrowful (repent) for their wicked ways (verses 3-9)

God’s response to this is:

“And God saw their works, that they turned from their evil way; and God repented of the evil, that he had said that he would do unto them; and he did it not” (verse 10)

“God saw their WORKS”. This is explained by the words that follow, “that they turned from their evil way”, which is to REPENT of their sins

If there is no true REPENTANCE of sins, NO sinner can get saved!

Mark begins his Gospel saying;

“4 John the Baptist appeared in the wilderness, preaching a baptism of repentance for the forgiveness of sins. 5 And all the country of Judea was going out to him, and all the people of Jerusalem; and they were being baptized by him in the Jordan River, confessing their sins.

Jesus Christ’s first words in this Gospel, are;

“and saying, “The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand; REPENT and BELIEVE in the gospel.”(verse 15)

By “REPENT”, Jesus means exactly what John the Baptist was sent by God, to preach, “REPENTANCE OF SINS”, and not simply to change one’s mind about Jesus Christ, as some wrongly teach! BOTH “REPENTANCE” and “FAITH” are required for ALL sinners to be saved.

At the close of His Ministry on earth, Jesus again very clearly says;

“and that repentance for forgiveness of sins would be proclaimed in His Name to all the nations, beginning from Jerusalem” (Luke 24:47)

The reading, “Repentance FOR”, is by far the strongest, as it is found in the oldest Greek manuscript of this Gospel, the Papyri P75, which dates between AD 175-225. This reading is also in the 2 principal Greek manuscripts, the Codices Sinaiticus and Vaticanus, both of the 4th century. Even earlier, is The Diatessaron, or Harmony of the Four Gospels, by Tatian, which was originally written in Greek, and dates AD 150-160.

In this same Gospel, in chapter 18, Jesus tells of the Pharisee and Tax Collector;

“But the tax collector, standing far off, would not even lift up his eyes to heaven, but beat his breast, saying, ‘God, be merciful to me, a sinner” (verse 13)

This is godly REPENTANCE!

The Apostle Peter, in his first “Sermon”, in Acts chapter 2, responds to those who heard this Message, and were, “pierced to the heart” (verse 37, the same as CONVICTED by the Holy Spirit, as Jesus says in John 16:8-10). These then said, “Brothers, what are we to do?”. Peter does not say, “only have FAITH”, but, “Repent, and each of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins; and you will receive the Gift of the Holy Spirit” (verse 38). In the next chapter, Peter also says, “Repent therefore and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, so that times of refreshing may come from the presence of the Lord” (verse 19)

The Apostle Paul is also very clear;

“For godly sorrow produces repentance leading to salvation, not to be regretted; but the sorrow of the world produces death” (2 Corinthians 7:10)

Below I have given some references from what the REFORMED Church, and its main leaders, have said:

The Heidelberg Catechism - 1563

Q&A 84

Q. How does preaching the holy gospel open and close the kingdom of heaven?

A. According to the command of Christ, The kingdom of heaven is opened by proclaiming and publicly declaring to all believers, each and every one, that, as often as they accept the gospel promise in true faith, God, because of Christ’s merit, truly forgives all their sins.

The kingdom of heaven is closed, however, by proclaiming and publicly declaring to unbelievers and hypocrites that, as long as they do not repent, the wrath of God and eternal condemnation rest on them. God’s judgment, both in this life and in the life to come, is based on this gospel testimony.

The Canons of Dort – 1618-1619

Article 6: Unbelief, a Human Responsibility

However, that many who have been called through the gospel do not repent or believe in Christ but perish in unbelief is not because the sacrifice of Christ offered on the cross is deficient or insufficient, but because they themselves are at fault.

The Westminster Confession of Faith 1646

Repentance unto life is an evangelical
grace, the doctrine whereof is to be preached by every minister of the gospel, as well as that of faith in Christ. By it a sinner, out of sight and sense, not only of danger, but also of filthiness and odiousness of his sins, as contrary to the holy nature and righteous law of God, and upon the apprehension of his mercy in Christ to such as are penitent, so grieves for and hates his sins, as to turn from them all unto God, purposing and endeavoring to walk with him in all the ways of his commandments (The Westminster Confession of Faith, Chapter XV, Sections I and II. Cited in A.A. Hodge, The Confession of Faith (Edinburgh: Banner, 1958), p. 210)

John Calvin

Even though we have taught in part how to possess Christ, and how through it we enjoy his benefits, this would still remain obscure if we did not add an explanation of the effects we feel. With good reason, the sum of the gospel is held to consist in repentance and the forgiveness of sins (Luke 24:47; Acts 5:31). Any discussion of faith, therefore, that omitted these two topics would be barren and mutilated and well–nigh useless…Surely no one can embrace the grace of the gospel without betaking himself from the errors of his past life into the right way, and applying his whole effort to the practice of repentance. Can true repentance stand apart from faith? Not at all. But even though they cannot be separated, they ought to be distinguished (John Calvin, Institutes of the Christian Religion. Found in The Library of Christian Classics (Philadelphia: Westminster, 1960), Volume XIX, Book III, Chapters 1, 5, pp. 592-593, 597).

Thomas Watson

Repentance is of such importance that there is no being saved without it…It is a great duty incumbent upon Christians solemnly to repent and turn unto God
That religion which is not built upon this foundation must needs fall to the ground. Repentance is a grace required under the gospel. Some think it legal; but the first sermon that Christ preached, indeed, the first word of his sermon, was ‘Repent’ (Matt. 4.17). And his farewell that he left when he was going to ascend was that ‘repentance should be preached in his name’ (Luke 22.47)…Repentance is not arbitrary. It is not left to our choice whether or not we will repent, but it is an indispensable command. God has enacted a law in the High Court of heaven that no sinner shall be saved except the repenting sinner, and he will not break his own law. Some bless themselves that they have a stock of knowledge, but what is knowledge good for without repentance? It is better to mortify one sin than to understand all mysteries. Impure speculatists do but resemble Satan transformed into an angel of light. Learning and a bad heart is like a fair face with a cancer in the breast. Knowledge without repentance will be but a torch to light men to hell (Thomas Watson, The Doctrine of Repentance (Edinburgh: Banner, 1987), pp. 12–13, 59, 77).

Louis Berkhof

There is no doubt that, logically, repentance and the knowledge of sin precedes the faith that yields to Christ in trusting love (Louis Berkhof, Systematic Theology (Grand Rapids: Eerdmans, 1939), p. 492).

John Murray

The question has been discussed: which is prior, faith or repentance? It is an unnecessary question and the insistence that one is prior to the other is futile. There is no priority. The faith that is unto salvation is a penitent faith and the repentance that is unto life is a believing repentance…It is impossible to disentangle faith and repentance. Saving faith is permeated with repentance and repentance is permeated with faith (John Murray, Redemption Accomplished and Applied (Grand Rapids: Eerdmans, 1955), p. 113).

The EVIDENCE form these REFORMED “Confessions” and writers, is VERY CLEAR, that for ANY sinner to get saved, they MUST REPENT OF THEIR SINS, not only FAITH!
 
Sola Fide, which literally means, “Faith Alone”, is a teaching by the so called “Reformed”, such as some “Calvinists”, and some Baptists, who say that sinners only require “Faith”, in order to be saved.
Your post is based on a poor definition of Sola Fide.

The definition found in https://www.gotquestions.org/sola-fide.html is the teaching that we are declared righteous by God (justified) on the basis of our faith alone and not by works is a key doctrine of the Bible and a line that divides most cults from biblical Christianity.

Sola Fide
is the instrument by which God saves His chosen ones. Although we are saved by Faith Alone, faith is never alone; rather, it causes us to Repent and do Works.

So, without that accurate definition of Sola Fide your post has no foundation (it's just babbling).
 
Your post is based on a poor definition of Sola Fide.

The definition found in https://www.gotquestions.org/sola-fide.html is the teaching that we are declared righteous by God (justified) on the basis of our faith alone and not by works is a key doctrine of the Bible and a line that divides most cults from biblical Christianity.

Sola Fide
is the instrument by which God saves His chosen ones. Although we are saved by Faith Alone, faith is never alone; rather, it causes us to Repent and do Works.

So, without that accurate definition of Sola Fide your post has no foundation (it's just babbling).

Repentance and Faith are required BEFORE any sinner can get saved

It is also not true that "God saves His chosen ones", which is to do with the "Reformed" theology, rather than what the Bible teaches. John 3:16-18 is clear that God's Saving Love, and the Death of Jesus Christ, is for every single human being, from Adam to the very last person! there is NO "limitation" in the Bible, only in unbiblical theology!
 
Repentance and Faith are required BEFORE any sinner can get saved

It is also not true that "God saves His chosen ones", which is to do with the "Reformed" theology, rather than what the Bible teaches. John 3:16-18 is clear that God's Saving Love, and the Death of Jesus Christ, is for every single human being, from Adam to the very last person! there is NO "limitation" in the Bible, only in unbiblical theology!
Your idea is unbiblical in that Salvation is not extended to all men,jn3:16 limits it.
 
Repentance and Faith are required BEFORE any sinner can get saved
True enough ... faith is the cause of repentance (change of mind) and repentance is always present with faith.
In other words, it is logically impossible to change from not have faith to having faith and not have changed your mind (repentance).

is also not true that "God saves His chosen ones"
then the following verses would be in error:
Psalm 65:4 Blessed is the one whom You choose and bring near to dwell in Your courts.
Matt 11:27 and no one fully knows and accurately understands the Father except the Son and anyone to whom the Son deliberately wills to make Him known. [the will of the Son determines who knows God]
John 15:16 You did not choose me, but I [Jesus] chose you
Eph. 1:4 even as he chose us in him before the foundation of the world

I could list 70ish more verses

John 3:16-18 is clear that God's Saving Love, and the Death of Jesus Christ, is for every single human being, from Adam to the very last person! there is NO "limitation" in the Bible, only in unbiblical theology!
John 3:16 says that those that believe in Christ will be saved. The verse does not give the cause of their belief. Your prejudice blinds your understanding. I say God chose them to believe and you say they believed on their own. The answer as to the cause cannot be ascertained in John 3:16-18. John 1:12-13 does answer the reason as to the cause of one's faith.

Re:
here is NO "limitation" [as to who can be saved]

.... dude, if you read the own verses you will see there is a limitation as to who is saved. John 3:18 says "but the one who does not believe [and has decided to reject Him as personal Savior and Lord] is judged already [that one has been convicted and sentenced], because he has not believed and trusted in the name of the [One and] only begotten Son of God". Read the verse, it says anyone who does not believe in Christ is judged. Since billions have died having never heard of Christ it is logically impossible for there to be "no limitation as to who has faith".
 
Your idea is unbiblical in that Salvation is not extended to all men,jn3:16 limits it.

how can John 3:16 limit salvation?

The use of "kosmos" here must include the entire human race, or else we have the problem, that only the "whosoever" who believes in Jesus Christ, from the "elect" will be saved, and the others who don't believe, will be damned. This is exactly how the Reformed theologian, Robert Dabney, understood this verse.

“In Jno.iii.16, make ‘the world’ which Christ loved, to mean ‘the elect world’, and we reach the absurdity, that some of the elect may not believe, and perish…since Christ made expiation for every man” (Systematic Theology, p.525)

And the man man of "Calvinism", John Calvin, also says of this verse;

That whosoever believeth on him may not perish. It is a remarkable commendation of faith, that it frees us from everlasting destruction. For he intended expressly to state that, though we appear to have been born to death, undoubted deliverance is offered to us by the faith of Christ; and, therefore, that we ought not to fear death, which otherwise hangs over us. And he has employed the universal term whosoever, both to invite all indiscriminately to partake of life, and to cut off every excuse from unbelievers. Such is also the import of the term World, which he formerly used; for though nothing will be found in the world that is worthy of the favor of God, yet he shows himself to be reconciled to to the whole world, when he invites all men without exception to the faith of Christ, which is nothing else than an entrance into life.”

Note Calvin's universal language here, "universal term whosoever, both to invite all indiscriminately"; "the whole world", and "all men without exception".

Also from Calvin;

John 1:29;

Who taketh away the sin of the world. He uses the word sin in the singular number, for any kind of iniquity; as if he had said, that every kind of unrighteousness which alienates men from God is taken away by Christ. And when he says, the sin Of The World, he extends this favor indiscriminately to the whole human race; that the Jews might not think that he had been sent to them alone. But hence we infer that the whole world is involved in the same condemnation; and that as all men without exception are guilty of unrighteousness before God, they need to be reconciled to him. John the Baptist, therefore, by speaking generally of the sin of the world, intended to impress upon us the conviction of our own misery, and to exhort us to seek the remedy. Now our duty is, to embrace the benefit which is offered to all, that each of us may be convinced that there is nothing to hinder him from obtaining reconciliation in Christ, provided that he comes to him by the guidance of faith.”

Then we have Romans 5:18;

“He makes this favor common to all, because it is propounded to all, and not because it is in reality extended to all; for though Christ suffered for the sins of the whole world, and is offered through God's benignity indiscriminately to all, yet all do not receive him”

Here Calvin clearly says that Christ’s suffering for “the whole world” is “offered…to ALL”, but the “ALL” of the “human race” do not receive this gift from the Lord. Nothing could be plainer of the Universal Atonement as taught by Calvin.

Commenting on Mark 14:24, where Jesus says that His death is a “ransom for many”. Calvin says:

Which is shed for many. By the word many he means not a part of the world only, but the whole human race

This last reference in Mark, is the Lord's Supper, which Luke tells us that Judas was present for, and did take part in this Meal. This is acknowledged by Reformed theologians, on Luke 20:21, ""But behold, the hand of the one betraying Me is with Mine on the table" (NASB)

"From Luke's account it appears most clearly, that Judas was not only at the passover, but at the Lord's supper, since this was said when both were over" (John Gill)

"By placing this after the institution of the Lord's supper, though in Matthew and Mark it is placed before it, it seems plain that Judas did receive the Lord's supper, did eat of that bread and drink of that cup; for, after the solemnity was over, Christ said, Behold, the hand of him that betrayeth me is with me on the table. There have been those that have eaten bread with Christ and yet have betrayed him." (Matthew Henry)

The Greek scholar, A T Robertson

"That betrayeth (tou paradidontos). Present active participle, actually engaged in doing it. The hand of Judas was resting on the table at the moment. It should be noted that Luke narrates the institution of the Lord’s Supper before the exposure of Judas as the traitor while Mark and Matthew reverse this order."
 
True enough ... faith is the cause of repentance (change of mind) and repentance is always present with faith.
In other words, it is logically impossible to change from not have faith to having faith and not have changed your mind (repentance).


then the following verses would be in error:
Psalm 65:4 Blessed is the one whom You choose and bring near to dwell in Your courts.
Matt 11:27 and no one fully knows and accurately understands the Father except the Son and anyone to whom the Son deliberately wills to make Him known. [the will of the Son determines who knows God]
John 15:16 You did not choose me, but I [Jesus] chose you
Eph. 1:4 even as he chose us in him before the foundation of the world

I could list 70ish more verses


John 3:16 says that those that believe in Christ will be saved. The verse does not give the cause of their belief. Your prejudice blinds your understanding. I say God chose them to believe and you say they believed on their own. The answer as to the cause cannot be ascertained in John 3:16-18. John 1:12-13 does answer the reason as to the cause of one's faith.

Re:


.... dude, if you read the own verses you will see there is a limitation as to who is saved. John 3:18 says "but the one who does not believe [and has decided to reject Him as personal Savior and Lord] is judged already [that one has been convicted and sentenced], because he has not believed and trusted in the name of the [One and] only begotten Son of God". Read the verse, it says anyone who does not believe in Christ is judged. Since billions have died having never heard of Christ it is logically impossible for there to be "no limitation as to who has faith".

Let us assume, that "kosmos" in this passage, means "elect"

"For God so loved the elect, that he gave his only Son, that whoever [of the elect] believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the elect, but in order that the elect might be saved through him. Anyone who believes in Him is not condemned, but anyone who does not believe is already condemned, because he has not believed in the name of the One and Only Son of God.” (3:16-18)"

We have two classes here, those who "believe", and, those who "do not believe", both are part of the same "kosmos" in verse 16. Now, is this were true, that God gave His only Son for the "elect", we have the problem, that some of these "elect", those who believe, will be saved, but some of this "elect", are clearly damned! Or else, the words, "For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the elect", is meaningless. Also, in verse 18, we have those who "believe", who are not condemned, but, those who do not believe, are already condemned. This whole passage, if limited to only the "elect", is complete nonsense!

Which is why even Calvin does not believe that "kosmos" here is limited to the "elect", and very clearly says that Jesus died "for everyone without exception"! The Reformed theologian, Robert Dabney also says it is impossible for "kosmos" to mean only the "elect"!
 
John 3:16 says that those that believe in Christ will be saved

Yes, these are from the KOSMOS!, "for God so loved the Kosoms...". IF, these are only the "elect", then we have SOME from this "elect", who will believe and get saved; and the OTHERS from this same "elect", will not believe and be damned! Your own words show the folly in what you believe!
 
Sola Fide is Unbibical Error

I reject the five Solas/Solae (Onlys)—sola Scriptura, solus Christus, sola gratia, sola fide, and soli Deo gloria. The founding Reformers didn’t come up with them, but did advance their themes. The themes differ from their phrasing. In historical context, each sola was to battle a set of alternative ideas, for example sola Scriptura against Church writings. Even so, you might see a weakness today, where those who say “I only believe the Bible”, really mean that they only believe their own interpretation, and refuse as unbiblical better interpretations: where there is proof texting without understanding text, Church writings offer light.

I reject the five Solas partly because as Onlys they can sound as if they each stand alone, rather than only Together as a package deal (as All being needed). For Christian salvation, is Scripture sufficient, or is Christ required? Is Christ sufficient, or is grace required? Is grace sufficient, or is faith required? Etc.

I reject them partly because some fail trinitarianism. Eg, saying Christ alone, formally discounts the father and the spirit as saviour—even the noncarnate son.

I replace them with the five necessaria: For Christian salvation, Scripture is necessary: Scriptura necessaria est; grace is necessary: gratia necessaria est; faith is necessary: fides necessaria est; the cross is necessary: crux necessaria est; giving glory to the trinity is necessary: trinitatem glorificare necessarium est.
 
how can John 3:16 limit salvation?
Hello SS, you seem to answer your own question
The use of "kosmos" here must include the entire human race, or else we have the problem,
That shows where the people will be found, worldwide.It does nothing to show who they are.

that only the "whosoever" who believes in Jesus Christ,
Here you go...The text limits it to "everyone believing", every believing one....That is not every person ever born as you try and imply. The gospel is offered to all, but all have no intention to come.

from the "elect" will be saved,
The elect were chosen before time. As they are effectually drawn by the Spirit to hear the gospel they do believe. Nice and simple.

and the others who don't believe, will be damned. This is exactly how the Reformed theologian, Robert Dabney, understood this verse.
Yes, he understood the verse. many in our day do not understand.
“In Jno.iii.16, make ‘the world’ which Christ loved, to mean ‘the elect world’
We do not have to make anything. ONLY THOSE ELECTED WILL BELIEVE. No one stops the others from believing. They do not want to believe. They hate the bible God, and suppress His truth.




and we reach the absurdity, that some of the elect may not believe, and perish…since Christ made expiation for every man” (Systematic Theology, p.525)
Jesus owns the right to everyman.He saves All the Father gave to HimJn17:1-3, Jn 6:37-44. The only thing that is absurd, is your idea that any elect perish as Peter tells as as Jesus did that God is not willing that any elect perish 2Pet.3:9
And the man man of "Calvinism", John Calvin, also says of this verse;

That whosoever believeth on him may not perish. It is a remarkable commendation of faith, that it frees us from everlasting destruction. For he intended expressly to state that, though we appear to have been born to death, undoubted deliverance is offered to us by the faith of Christ; and, therefore, that we ought not to fear death, which otherwise hangs over us. And he has employed the universal term whosoever, both to invite all indiscriminately to partake of life, and to cut off every excuse from unbelievers. Such is also the import of the term World, which he formerly used; for though nothing will be found in the world that is worthy of the favor of God, yet he shows himself to be reconciled to to the whole world, when he invites all men without exception to the faith of Christ, which is nothing else than an entrance into life.”

Note Calvin's universal language here, "universal term whosoever, both to invite all indiscriminately"; "the whole world", and "all men without exception".
So what? That comes down to the same exact thing...Everyone believing
Also from Calvin;

John 1:29;

Who taketh away the sin of the world. He uses the word sin in the singular number, for any kind of iniquity; as if he had said, that every kind of unrighteousness which alienates men from God is taken away by Christ. And when he says, the sin Of The World, he extends this favor indiscriminately to the whole human race; that the Jews might not think that he had been sent to them alone. But hence we infer that the whole world is involved in the same condemnation; and that as all men without exception are guilty of unrighteousness before God, they need to be reconciled to him. John the Baptist, therefore, by speaking generally of the sin of the world, intended to impress upon us the conviction of our own misery, and to exhort us to seek the remedy. Now our duty is, to embrace the benefit which is offered to all, that each of us may be convinced that there is nothing to hinder him from obtaining reconciliation in Christ, provided that he comes to him by the guidance of faith.”
That also comes out to the same exact thing. Offered to all, believed by the elect, worldwide.
Then we have Romans 5:18;

“He makes this favor common to all, because it is propounded to all, and not because it is in reality extended to all; for though Christ suffered for the sins of the whole world, and is offered through God's benignity indiscriminately to all, yet all do not receive him”
The free offer is given, not all men are IN CHRIST
Here Calvin clearly says that Christ’s suffering for “the whole world” is “offered…to ALL”, but the “ALL” of the “human race” do not receive this gift from the Lord. Nothing could be plainer of the Universal Atonement as taught by Calvin.
All the sins of all men are not atoned for. The atonement is for those who believe, everyone believing,jn.8
24 I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I am he, ye shall die in your sins.

Commenting on Mark 14:24, where Jesus says that His death is a “ransom for many”. Calvin says:

Which is shed for many. By the word many he means not a part of the world only, but the whole human race
The whole human race is not going to be saved.
This last reference in Mark, is the Lord's Supper, which Luke tells us that Judas was present for, and did take part in this Meal. This is acknowledged by Reformed theologians, on Luke 20:21, ""But behold, the hand of the one betraying Me is with Mine on the table" (NASB)

"From Luke's account it appears most clearly, that Judas was not only at the passover, but at the Lord's supper, since this was said when both were over" (John Gill)

"By placing this after the institution of the Lord's supper, though in Matthew and Mark it is placed before it, it seems plain that Judas did receive the Lord's supper, did eat of that bread and drink of that cup; for, after the solemnity was over, Christ said, Behold, the hand of him that betrayeth me is with me on the table. There have been those that have eaten bread with Christ and yet have betrayed him." (Matthew Henry)
Judas partook in an unworthy manner ,like some in 1cor.11
The Greek scholar, A T Robertson

"That betrayeth (tou paradidontos). Present active participle, actually engaged in doing it. The hand of Judas was resting on the table at the moment. It should be noted that Luke narrates the institution of the Lord’s Supper before the exposure of Judas as the traitor while Mark and Matthew reverse this order."
Duly noted. Thanks for the fine questions.
 
Yes, these are from the KOSMOS!, "for God so loved the Kosoms...". IF, these are only the "elect", then we have SOME from this "elect", who will believe and get saved; and the OTHERS from this same "elect", will not believe and be damned! Your own words show the folly in what you believe!
The word kosmos does not say all men are elect.
 
Let us assume, that "kosmos" in this passage, means "elect"
No one makes that conclusion, nobody. It is foolish to make such a claim.
"For God so loved the elect, that he gave his only Son, that whoever [of the elect] believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the elect, but in order that the elect might be saved through him. Anyone who believes in Him is not condemned, but anyone who does not believe is already condemned, because he has not believed in the name of the One and Only Son of God.” (3:16-18)"

We have two classes here, those who "believe", and, those who "do not believe", both are part of the same "kosmos" in verse 16. Now, is this were true, that God gave His only Son for the "elect", we have the problem, that some of these "elect", those who believe, will be saved, but some of this "elect", are clearly damned! Or else, the words, "For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the elect", is meaningless. Also, in verse 18, we have those who "believe", who are not condemned, but, those who do not believe, are already condemned. This whole passage, if limited to only the "elect", is complete nonsense!

Which is why even Calvin does not believe that "kosmos" here is limited to the "elect", and very clearly says that Jesus died "for everyone without exception"! The Reformed theologian, Robert Dabney also says it is impossible for "kosmos" to mean only the "elect"!
No one says that. The everyone believing, refers to the elect. Glad to help you sort that out.
 
Let us assume, that "kosmos" in this passage, means "elect"
Well, the assumption I make is that "kosmos" mean Gentiles as well as the default Jews. So dealing witht he rest of you theories is futile. The crux of the matter is that "kosmos" is ambiguous and we should seek doctrinal clarity elsewhere. You said:
It is also not true that "God saves His chosen ones"
... and I gave 3 or 4 verses to show you incorrect and offered 70 more .... so move on from a verse (John 3:16) that is ambiguous to scripture that is clear.


Which is why even Calvin does not believe that "kosmos" here is limited to the "elect", and very clearly says that Jesus died "for everyone without exception"! The Reformed theologian, Robert Dabney also says it is impossible for "kosmos" to mean only the "elect"!
...as I said, I don't believe "kosmos" means elect so there is no reason to go further down that road.
 
Yes, these are from the KOSMOS!, "for God so loved the Kosoms...". IF, these are only the "elect", then we have SOME from this "elect", who will believe and get saved; and the OTHERS from this same "elect", will not believe and be damned! Your own words show the folly in what you believe!
You set the false premise that I believe "kosmos" to means "the elect" and then, based on your false premise, come to the conclusion I have folly.

The crux of the matter is whether GOD CHOOSES US, OR WE INDEPENDENT OF GOD CHOOSE HIM.
Instead of using the ambiguous verse John 3:16 (for which I am too lazy to show it can't mean everyone with exception) ... why don't you deal with the explicit verses that states GOD CHOOSES US.

Long list of verses to deal with follow:
Note: Scripture uses: Elect, chosen, appointed, predestination, “known by God”, foreknowledge, sheep ... all of which as synonyms for CHOSE (aside: I could list more verses but only 10,000 chars)

Psalm 65:4 Blessed is the one whom You choose and bring near to dwell in Your courts. We will be filled with the goodness of Your house, Your holy temple.

John 6:37 All that the Father gives Me will come to Me, and the one who comes to Me I will certainly not cast out. [the action is the Father giving to the Son; believers are not involved in the transaction save their coming is the result of the Father’s action][Counter argument: Perhaps the reason for the father’s gift is the choice of men. Salvation is dependent upon giving; one does not give because one foresees faith]
John 6:39 And this is the will of him who sent me, that I should lose nothing of all that he has given me, but raise it up on the last day. 40 For this is the will of my Father, that everyone who looks on the Son and believes in him should have eternal life, and I will raise him up on the last day.”

John 6:63 It is the Spirit who gives life; the flesh is no help at all. The words that I have spoken to you are spirit and life. 64 But [still] some of you fail to believe and trust and have faith. For Jesus knew from the first who did not believe and had no faith and who would betray Him and be false to Him. 65 And he said, “This [referring to “some of you fail to believe in verse 64] is why I told you that no one can come to me unless it is granted [that is, unless he is enabled to do so] him by the Father.”


John 8:47 Whoever is of God and belongs to Him hears [the truth of] God’s words; for this reason you do not hear them: because you are not of God and you are not in fellowship with Him.”
John 10:15 even as the Father knows Me and I know the Father—and I lay down My [very own] life [sacrificing it] for the benefit of the sheep.
John 12:39-40 “They could not believe, because Isaiah said again: “He has blinded their eyes and hardened their hearts, lest they should see with their eyes, lest they should understand with their hearts and turn, so that I should heal them.” Matthew 13:14-15; Isaiah 6:9-10 – God hardens and blinds some men so they cannot understand

Seven times Jesus speaks of believers as given to Him by the Father. John 17:2; 6 twice; 9, 11, 12, 24

John 13:18 I am not speaking of all of you; I know whom I have chosen. But the Scripture will be fulfilled, ‘He who ate my bread has lifted his heel against me.’

John 15:16 You did not choose me, but I [Jesus] chose you and appointed you that you should go and bear fruit and that your fruit should abide, so that whatever you ask the Father in my name, he may give it to you. … and by extension, all Christians … Arminian: "You have 'chosen' me only because you know that I would choose you, so that my will logically precedes and determines your will!" He says, "If conversion is necessary, then by my will I will turn against my wickedness, even my own evil will, by my might I will escape from Satan's hold and sin's grip, and by my power I will turn to Christ and permit him to save me, as if I need him at all." Vincent Cheung

John 15:19b but I chose you out of the world, therefore the world hates you.
John 17:2; 6, 11, 12, 24 Seven times Jesus speaks of believers as given to Him by the Father.
John 17:9 I pray for them. I am not praying for the world, but for those you have given me, for they are yours. [Counter argument: Perhaps the reason for the father’s gift is the choice of men]

Acts 9:15 But the Lord said to him, “Go, for this man is a [deliberately]
chosen instrument of Mine, to bear My name before the Gentiles and kings and the sons of Israel; The conversion of Paul was of God and not from his acknowledgement and belief of those he persecuted.

Acts 4:28 to do whatever Your hand and Your purpose predestined [before the creation of the world] to occur [and so without knowing it, they served Your own purpose].

Acts 13:48 When the Gentiles heard this, they were glad and honored the word of the Lord; and all who were appointed (decided on beforehand; designated) for eternal life believed.

Acts 15:14 'Simeon hath declared how God at the first did visit the Gentiles to take out of
them a people for His name."

Acts 17:26 "And He made from one, every nation of mankind to live on all the face of the earth, having determined their appointed times, and the boundaries of their habitation." Since God plans where people will live and knows billions will live in areas that never hear the salvific gospel, God has determined these people to be among the unelect.

Acts 18:27 When Apollos wanted to go to Achaia, the brothers encouraged him and wrote to the disciples there to welcome him. On arriving, he was a great help to those who by grace had believed.

Acts 22:10 And I asked, ‘What shall I do, Lord?’ And the Lord answered me, ‘Get up and go into Damascus. There you will be told all that is appointed and destined for you to do.’
 
You set the false premise that I believe "kosmos" to means "the elect" and then, based on your false premise, come to the conclusion I have folly. Yes this false premise is offered so he can "win"...Win what?
people will hide behind false premises, or even TOS rules to hide their inability to answer scripture.
 
You set the false premise that I believe "kosmos" to means "the elect" and then, based on your false premise, come to the conclusion I have folly. Yes this false premise is offered so he can "win"...Win what?
people will hide behind false premises, or even TOS rules to hide their inability to answer scripture.
Ouch!

Excellent reply.
 
You set the false premise that I believe "kosmos" to means "the elect" and then, based on your false premise, come to the conclusion I have folly. Yes this false premise is offered so he can "win"...Win what?
people will hide behind false premises, or even TOS rules to hide their inability to answer scripture.
You have a site.
Do you hide behind TOS or are they for the purpose of having a civil conversation?
I'll discuss anything if you come on over to Theology or Apologetics. But will your demeanor hold up?

And why are the reformed so mad all the time?
 

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