John Calvin's Heretical Teaching

[SolaScriptura]

"Now, since the arrangement of all things is in the hand of God, since to him belongs the disposal of life and death, he arranges all things by his sovereign counsel, in such a way that individuals are born, who are doomed from the womb to certain death, and are to glorify him by their destruction" https://www.biblestudytools.com/history/calvin-institutes-christianity/book3/chapter-23.html

It is Biblical HERESY to say, as Calvin does here, that "arranges by his sovereign counsel", that certain individuals are born, "are doomed from the womb to certain death", and then these are supposed "to glorify him by their destruction".

WHY would God "arrange" that some are born domed to eternal punishment, when it says clearly in the Bible, that "God SO LOVES the entire human race", and "desires that every human being is saved"?

WHY would those whom God has "arranged" to be damned in hell eternally, "glorify" God?

WHERE in the entire 66 Books of the Divinely Inspired Bible, do we read of these HERESIES?

This language used by the so called Calvinists/Reformed, is INSANE!

 

[journeymanisnothing]

When scripture says,

The LORD hath made all things for himself: yea, even the wicked for the day of evil. Pro.16:4 KJV

God previously told us all that unrepentance would cause destruction. God should be glorified because of His integrity.

Read Jeremiah 18 about how the Potter molds the clay. People are "made evil by God" by not listening to Him.

 

[SolaScriptura]

When scripture says,

The LORD hath made all things for himself: yea, even the wicked for the day of evil. Pro.16:4 KJV

God previously told us all that unrepentance would cause destruction. God should be glorified because of His integrity.

Read Jeremiah 18 about how the Potter molds the clay. People are "made evil by God" by not listening to Him.

God USES wicked people and evil, for His Purposes, but He CANNOT be the "cause" of either wickedness or evil

People CANNOT be "made evil by God", or else He has evil in Him! This would be the GREATEST BLASPHEMY!

 

[journeymanisnothing]

God USES wicked people and evil, for His Purposes, but He CANNOT be the "cause" of either wickedness or evil

People CANNOT be "made evil by God", or else He has evil in Him! This would be the GREATEST BLASPHEMY!

I'm not disagreeing with you. Good and bad are defined by God. That's all.

God simply ordained what light and dark are. It's how folks go from light into darkness.
Jer.18 shows how "God hardened Pharaohs' heart.

 

[SolaScriptura]

I'm not disagreeing with you. Good and bad are defined by God. That's all.

God simply ordained what light and dark are. It's how folks go from light into darkness.
Jer.18 shows how "God hardened Pharaohs' heart.

Indeed, but only after Pharaoh hardened it first.

If we CHOOSE evil over good, and wrong over right, this is what WE DO, God cannot make us, as there is no evil or wrong in Him.

 

[journeymanisnothing]

Indeed, but only after Pharaoh hardened it first.

Pharaohs' initial reaction to Moses was probably laughter. As in, "Who is this sheppherd with a demand?"

If we CHOOSE evil over good, and wrong over right, this is what WE DO, God cannot make us, as there is no evil or wrong in Him.

Exactly right and God never looked at Himself as evil. He did look at what sinners were doing to Him before and while He was on the cross. I'm glad some repented.

 

[brightfame52]

"Now, since the arrangement of all things is in the hand of God, since to him belongs the disposal of life and death, he arranges all things by his sovereign counsel, in such a way that individuals are born, who are doomed from the womb to certain death, and are to glorify him by their destruction" https://www.biblestudytools.com/history/calvin-institutes-christianity/book3/chapter-23.html

It is Biblical HERESY to say, as Calvin does here, that "arranges by his sovereign counsel", that certain individuals are born, "are doomed from the womb to certain death", and then these are supposed "to glorify him by their destruction".

WHY would God "arrange" that some are born domed to eternal punishment, when it says clearly in the Bible, that "God SO LOVES the entire human race", and "desires that every human being is saved"?

WHY would those whom God has "arranged" to be damned in hell eternally, "glorify" God?

WHERE in the entire 66 Books of the Divinely Inspired Bible, do we read of these HERESIES?

This language used by the so called Calvinists/Reformed, is INSANE!

God doesnt love the whole human race, thats a false concept, also God did predestine some to be vessels of wrath which He fits them for destruction, and thats everlasting destruction for their sins.

 

[SolaScriptura]

God doesnt love the whole human race, thats a false concept, also God did predestine some to be vessels of wrath which He fits them for destruction, and thats everlasting destruction for their sins.

Then according to you Jesus lied in John 3.16

 

[electedbyHim]

Romans 9:21-23 Or does not the potter have a right over the clay, to make from the same lump one vessel for honorable use and another for common use? 22 What if God, although willing to demonstrate His wrath and to make His power known, endured with much patience vessels of wrath prepared for destruction? 23 And He did so to make known the riches of His glory upon vessels of mercy, which He prepared beforehand for glory,

Macarthur-Paul is saying here that God is sovereign. Paul is clearly saying that, there is no other message here. Verse 18, "He has mercy on whom He will have mercy, and whom He will He hardens." The argument comes, "Well it doesn't seem fair," and in verse 21 Paul says, "Hath not the potter power over the clay; of the same lump to make one vessel unto honor and another unto dishonor?" The potter can make a vessel any way he wants. He's the potter and the vessel is simply clay.

But I want you to notice what happens in verse twenty-two. "What if God, willing to show His wrath, and to make His power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction; And that He might make known the riches of His glory on the vessels of mercy, which He had before prepared unto glory,"

Now I don't want to get too deep and I just want to give you one or two thoughts. Notice, there are vessels of wrath, at the end of verse 22, fitted to destruction. In verse 23, vessels of mercywhich He had prepared to glory. Now in the Greek you have two serious distinctions here in the Greek tense and you must recognize them. I should say in the Greek voice which is similar to English. You realize the difference between active and passive? In active, the subject does the acting and in passive the subject receives the action. Now notice, verse 22 is a passive, vessels of wrath fitted to destruction. God is not the subject. The verb is passive. Verse 23, vessels of mercy which He had prepared to glory. God, there, is the subject and the verb is active.

Listen, God says I prepare vessels for glory, but vessels are prepared for destruction. And what is happening there in the Greek tense, is God is taking one step away from the responsibility of preparing a person from His creative act for hell. God doesn't take that responsibility. He says there are vessels that have been prepared for destruction. And if you study the Bible very carefully you will see that every where in Scripture the responsibility for such preparation lies right in the very heart of the man who goes to hell. Is that right? Jesus said, "You will not come to me, that you might have life." At the end of the Book of Revelation He says, "Come, and let him that is athirst come." And so God says, I fit for glory, but vessels are fitted for destruction. Judas was not created by God to occupy hell.

Another reason I know that is that hell was never even made for human beings. It was made for the devil and his angels. Judas went there because Judas chose to betray Christ, chose to reject the truth, chose to pay a sad, sad price.

Using the familiar OT analogy of the potter (cf. Isa_64:6-8; Jer_18:3-16), Paul argues that it is as irrational, and far more arrogant, for men to question God's choice of certain sinners for salvation, as for a piece of pottery to question the purposes of the potter.

Denney - Either you must recognize this absoluteness of God in silence, or you must make the preposterous assertion that the potter has not power over the clay, etc. The power of the potter over the clay is of course undoubted: he takes the same lump, and makes one vessel for noble and another for ignoble uses; it is not the quality of the clay, but the will of the potter, that decides to what use each part of the lump is to be put. True, the objector might say, but irrelevant. For man is not clay, and the relation of God to man is not that of the potter to dead matter. To say that it is, is just to concede the objector’s point—the moral significance is taken out of life, and God has no room any longer to pronounce moral judgments, or to speak of man in terms of praise or blame. (Expositor's Greek Testament)

John Gill
Hath not the potter power over the clay,.... By the power the potter has over the clay, to shape it in what form he pleases, and out of it to make what vessels he pleases, and for what purposes he thinks fit, which will be most to his own advantage, the apostle expresses the sovereign and unlimited powder which God has over his creatures; the passages referred to, are Isa_64:8, in which God is represented as the potter, and men as clay in his hands; now if the potter has such power over the clay which he did not make, only has made a purchase of, or has it in his possession, much more has God a power, who has created the clay, to appoint out of it persons to different uses and purposes, for his own glory, as he sees fit; even

of the same lump, to make one vessel to honour, and another to dishonour. The apostle seems to design hereby, to point out to us the object of predestination to be man, as yet not made, but as lying in the mere mass of creatureship, signified by the unformed clay, before put into any shape; and is an allusion to the first creation of man, out of the clay, or dust of the earth, Gen_2:7; for such a consideration of man best agrees with the clay, lump, or mass, not yet formed, than as already made, and much less as fallen and corrupted: for if men, in predestination, were considered in the corrupt mass, or as fallen creatures, they could not be so well said to be made out of it, both to honour and dishonour; but rather since they were all dishonourable, that some were left in that dishonour, and others removed from it unto honour: besides, if this is not the case, God must create man without an end, which is contrary to the principle of reason and wisdom; the end is the cause, for which a thing is what it is; and it is a known rule, that what is first in intention, is last in execution, and "vice versa": the end is first fixed, and then the means; for God to create man, and then to fix the end of his creation, is to do what no wise potter would do, first make his pots, and then think of the end of making them, and the use they are to be put unto. To make one vessel to honour, and another to dishonour, is for God to appoint creatures, which are to be made out of the same mass and lump, for his own glory; which end, his own glory, he determines to bring about by different means, as these following: with respect to the vessels of honour, whom he appoints for his glory, he determines to create them; to suffer them to fall into sin, whereby they become polluted and guilty; to raise and recover them, by the obedience, sufferings, and death of his Son; to regenerate, renew, and sanctify them, by his Spirit and grace, and to bring them to eternal happiness; and hereby compass the aforesaid end, his own glory, the glorifying of his grace and mercy, in a way consistent with justice and holiness: with respect to the vessels of dishonour, whom he also appoints for the glorifying of himself, he determines to create them out of the same lump; to suffer them to fall into sin; to leave them in their sins, in the pollution and guilt of them, and to condemn them for them; and hereby gain his ultimate end, his own glory, glorifying the perfections of his power, justice, and holiness, without the least blemish to his goodness and mercy: now if a potter has power, for his own advantage and secular interest, to make out of the same clay what vessels he pleases; much more has God a power, out of the same mass and lump of creatureship, to appoint creatures he determines to make to his own glory; which he brings about by different methods, consistent with the perfections of his nature.

 

[brightfame52]

Then according to you Jesus lied in John 3.16

If anyone lied its you, that says nothing about God loves all mankind, it says He so loved the world. Did HeLove Esau Rom 9:13

13 As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated.

Or does He Love the workers of Iniquity ? Ps 5:5

5 The foolish shall not stand in thy sight: thou hatest all workers of iniquity.

 

[SolaScriptura]

If anyone lied its you, that says nothing about God loves all mankind, it says He so loved the world. Did HeLove Esau Rom 9:13

13 As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated.

Or does He Love the workers of Iniquity ? Ps 5:5

5 The foolish shall not stand in thy sight: thou hatest all workers of iniquity.

Even John Calvin whom you are supposed to follow says John 3.16 is THE ENTIRE HUMAN RACE!

God preferred Jacob to Easu. Stop twisting what the Bible actually teaches

 

[brightfame52]

Even John Calvin whom you are supposed to follow says John 3.16 is THE ENTIRE HUMAN RACE!

God preferred Jacob to Easu. Stop twisting what the Bible actually teaches

So you going to continue promoting a lie.

 

[SolaScriptura]

So you going to continue promoting a lie.

The Bible never lies, but Calvinism does!

 

[brightfame52]

The Bible never lies, but Calvinism does!

You made the false statement, dont put it on the bible.

 

[atpollard]

God preferred Jacob to Easu. Stop twisting what the Bible actually teaches

Read about God's "LOVE" for Esau in Malachi:

Malachi 1 [NKJV]

1 The burden of the word of the LORD to Israel by Malachi.​

​

2 “I have loved you,” says the LORD.​

“Yet you say, ‘In what way have You loved us?’​

Was not Esau Jacob’s brother?”​

Says the LORD.​

“Yet Jacob I have loved;​

3 But Esau I have hated,​

And laid waste his mountains and his heritage​

For the jackals of the wilderness.”​

​

4 Even though Edom has said,​

“We have been impoverished,​

But we will return and build the desolate places,”​

​

Thus says the LORD of hosts:​

​

“They may build, but I will throw down;​

They shall be called the Territory of Wickedness,​

And the people against whom the LORD will have indignation forever.​

5 Your eyes shall see,​

And you shall say,​

‘The LORD is magnified beyond the border of Israel.’​

 

[brightfame52]

electedbyhim

Now I don't want to get too deep and I just want to give you one or two thoughts. Notice, there are vessels of wrath, at the end of verse 22, fitted to destruction. In verse 23, vessels of mercywhich He had prepared to glory. Now in the Greek you have two serious distinctions here in the Greek tense and you must recognize them. I should say in the Greek voice which is similar to English. You realize the difference between active and passive? In active, the subject does the acting and in passive the subject receives the action. Now notice, verse 22 is a passive, vessels of wrath fitted to destruction. God is not the subject. The verb is passive. Verse 23, vessels of mercy which He had prepared to glory. God, there, is the subject and the verb is active.

Mcarthur here is being deceptive, he is correct in saying that being fitted for destruction is in the passive voice, however he is wrong by saying God isnt the one fitting the vessels of wrath for destruction. The vessels of wrath are receiving the action from God, for He is the one who made them, So God is active in fitting them for destruction

 

[atpollard]

The Bible never lies, but Calvinism does!

Empty rhetoric.
I invite you to offer a clear, specific untruth told by the "Doctrines of Grace" [T.U.L.I.P.] .
(One needs to define "Calvinism", since there is no such thing as "Calvinism" ... John Calvin founded no church or movement; he was just one of many Reformers active during the Reformation.)

 

[journeymanisnothing]

Romans 9:21-23 Or does not the potter have a right over the clay, to make from the same lump one vessel for honorable use and another for common use? 22 What if God, although willing to demonstrate His wrath and to make His power known, endured with much patience vessels of wrath prepared for destruction? 23 And He did so to make known the riches of His glory upon vessels of mercy, which He prepared beforehand for glory,

God says our hearts are hardened when we don't listen to Him,

He said, “Can I not do with you, Israel, as this potter does?” declares the LORD. “Like clay in the hand of the potter, so are you in my hand, Israel. If at any time I announce that a nation or kingdom is to be uprooted, torn down and destroyed and if that nation I warned repents of its evil, then I will relent and not inflict on it the disaster I had planned. And if at another time I announce that a nation or kingdom is to be built up and planted and if it does evil in my sight and does not obey me, then I will reconsider the good I had intended to do for it. Jer.18:6-10 NIV

But exhort one another daily, while it is called To day; lest any of you be hardened through the deceitfulness of sin. Heb.3:13 KJV

So God makes hearts hard simply by what He demands. In other words, "My heart was hardened by God, because I don't like what God said."

 

[atpollard]

God says our hearts are hardened when we don't listen to Him,

You are denying Romans 9 by pitting scripture against scripture. You need to EXEGETE the verses provided before moving on to new verses.

Romans 9:21-23

Or does not the potter have a right over the clay, to make from the same lump one vessel for honorable use and another for common use? 22 What if God, although willing to demonstrate His wrath and to make His power known, endured with much patience vessels of wrath prepared for destruction? 23 And He did so to make known the riches of His glory upon vessels of mercy, which He prepared beforehand for glory, ​

​

God is NOT saying "our hearts are hardened when we don't listen to Him" in Romans 9!
[You have the tail - man - wagging the dog - God.]

 

[JLB]

"Now, since the arrangement of all things is in the hand of God, since to him belongs the disposal of life and death, he arranges all things by his sovereign counsel, in such a way that individuals are born, who are doomed from the womb to certain death, and are to glorify him by their destruction" https://www.biblestudytools.com/history/calvin-institutes-christianity/book3/chapter-23.html

It is Biblical HERESY to say, as Calvin does here, that "arranges by his sovereign counsel", that certain individuals are born, "are doomed from the womb to certain death", and then these are supposed "to glorify him by their destruction".

WHY would God "arrange" that some are born domed to eternal punishment, when it says clearly in the Bible, that "God SO LOVES the entire human race", and "desires that every human being is saved"?

WHY would those whom God has "arranged" to be damned in hell eternally, "glorify" God?

WHERE in the entire 66 Books of the Divinely Inspired Bible, do we read of these HERESIES?

This language used by the so called Calvinists/Reformed, is INSANE!

We don’t.

That’s why Calvinism is unbiblical.