John Calvin's Heretical Teaching

[SolaScriptura]

Read about God's "LOVE" for Esau in Malachi:

Malachi 1 [NKJV]

1 The burden of the word of the LORD to Israel by Malachi.​

​

2 “I have loved you,” says the LORD.​

“Yet you say, ‘In what way have You loved us?’​

Was not Esau Jacob’s brother?”​

Says the LORD.​

“Yet Jacob I have loved;​

3 But Esau I have hated,​

And laid waste his mountains and his heritage​

For the jackals of the wilderness.”​

​

4 Even though Edom has said,​

“We have been impoverished,​

But we will return and build the desolate places,”​

​

Thus says the LORD of hosts:​

​

“They may build, but I will throw down;​

They shall be called the Territory of Wickedness,​

And the people against whom the LORD will have indignation forever.​

5 Your eyes shall see,​

And you shall say,​

‘The LORD is magnified beyond the border of Israel.’​

God says to hate our relations is wrong and sinful. Do you think that He tells us not to hate and does Himself?

This is "reformed" RUBBISH

 

[atpollard]

We don’t.

That’s why Calvinism is unbiblical.

So, were people not impacted by the fall of Adam (T) or is the Holy Spirit not a deposit to guarantee our redemption (P)?

Which end does the "unbiblical" start at?

 

[SolaScriptura]

Empty rhetoric.
I invite you to offer a clear, specific untruth told by the "Doctrines of Grace" [T.U.L.I.P.] .
(One needs to define "Calvinism", since there is no such thing as "Calvinism" ... John Calvin founded no church or movement; he was just one of many Reformers active during the Reformation.)

I Challenge any reformed to show from John 3.16-18 is not God’s Saving Love for the entire human race.

You will not be able to!

 

[atpollard]

God says to hate our relations is wrong and sinful. Do you think that He tells us not to hate and does Himself?

This is "reformed" RUBBISH

So Malachi was "Reformed" and should be removed from the Bible?
All I did what quote GOD verbatim.

You should probably think twice before completely rejecting Scripture as "reformed rubbish" because "you know God better than His Word".

 

[JLB]

So, were people not impacted by the fall of Adam (T) or is the Holy Spirit not a deposit to guarantee our redemption (P)?

Which end does the "unbiblical" start at?

The part where God elects some for salvation and elects some for damnation.

For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life.
John 3:16


Who does WHOEVER refer to?


Therefore I exhort first of all that supplications, prayers, intercessions, and giving of thanks be made for all men, for kings and all who are in authority, that we may lead a quiet and peaceable life in all godliness and reverence. For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Savior, who desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth. 1 Timothy 2:1-4

• God desires all men to be saved.

Do you agree with ths scripture?



JLB

 

[SolaScriptura]

So, were people not impacted by the fall of Adam (T) or is the Holy Spirit not a deposit to guarantee our redemption (P)?

Which end does the "unbiblical" start at?reformed

So Malachi was "Reformed" and should be removed from the Bible?
All I did what quote GOD verbatim.

You should probably think twice before completely rejecting Scripture as "reformed rubbish" because "you know God better than His Word".

You are blinded by your theology

 

[atpollard]

I Challenge any reformed to show from John 3.16-18 is not God’s Saving Love for the entire human race.

You will not be able to!

John 3:16-21 (the entire paragraph)

“For God so loved the world, that He gave His only Son, so that everyone who believes in Him will not perish, but have eternal life. For God did not send the Son into the world to judge the world, but so that the world might be saved through Him. The one who believes in Him is not judged; the one who does not believe has been judged already, because he has not believed in the name of the only Son of God. And this is the judgment, that the Light has come into the world, and people loved the darkness rather than the Light; for their deeds were evil. For everyone who does evil hates the Light, and does not come to the Light, so that his deeds will not be exposed. But the one who practices the truth comes to the Light, so that his deeds will be revealed as having been performed in God.”​

• "For God so loved the world": - "world" = "all without exception" or "all without distinction". Put a pin in that for a moment and we will come back to it after we look at what God says about them ...
• "so that everyone who believes in Him will not perish": Note, all without exception are not promised "will not perish", but only "everyone who believes in Him". So who are "Everyone who believes" and what makes the difference between "one who believes" and "one who does not believe"? Is it God or man that makes the difference? John 3:16 does not answer that question, does it.
• "The one who believes in Him is not judged": note the verb tense - present and future state.
• "the one who does not believe has been judged already": note the verb tenses - does not believe is in the present, but already judged in in the past.
• "this is the judgment": Note GOD's Judgement ... already judged (past tense) on everyone that does not presently believe (present tense) ... "people loved the darkness rather than the Light; for their deeds were evil. For everyone who does evil hates the Light, and does not come to the Light, so that his deeds will not be exposed."
• From the judgement - God's Judgement (already made) on everyone that presently does not believe (that is most of mankind) - PEOPLE want nothing to do with GOD and willingly flee FROM God (rather than run to God).
• "But the one who practices the truth comes to the Light": Note GOD's Judgement on those that DO come to the light - as already noted, those who are not judged (present and future) ... "so that his deeds will be revealed as having been performed in God."
• "having been performed in God.”: The GOOD of the saved comes not from themselves, but FROM GOD!

"all without exception" or "all without distinction"

Time to return to that place where we "put a pin in it". "All without exception" do not receive "eternal life" - that is self evident and affirmed by many other verses: SOME PEOPLE do go to "hell" according to Jesus many warnings and parables. "All without exception" are not promised eternal life - only "everyone who believes in Him". So whatever "LOVE" God may or may not have for "all without exception", it does not include a promise of "eternal life".

Does that mean that God has created them "reprobate" (pre-damned and beyond salvation) ... nope. Whether that is true or false, it cannot be proven from John 3:16-21. Those verses are silent on that subject.

So what about "all without distinction"? Is it possible that God loves the "world" (all people without distinction, but not all people without exception)? Let me offer a vision of the future where the PROMISE of John 3:16 has become a REALITY:

Revelation 5:1-10:

I saw in the right hand of Him who sat on the throne a scroll written inside and on the back, sealed up with seven seals.​

​

And I saw a strong angel proclaiming with a loud voice, “Who is worthy to open the scroll and to break its seals?” And no one in heaven or on the earth or under the earth was able to open the scroll or to look into it. Then I began to weep greatly because no one was found worthy to open the scroll or to look into it. And one of the elders *said to me, “Stop weeping; behold, the Lion that is from the tribe of Judah, the Root of David, has overcome so as to be able to open the scroll and its seven seals.”​

​

And I saw between the throne (with the four living creatures) and the elders a Lamb standing, as if slaughtered, having seven horns and seven eyes, which are the seven spirits of God sent out into all the earth. And He came and took the scroll out of the right hand of Him who sat on the throne. When He had taken the scroll, the four living creatures and the twenty-four elders fell down before the Lamb, each one holding a harp and golden bowls full of incense, which are the prayers of the saints. And they *sang a new song, saying,​

​

“Worthy are You to take the scroll and to break its seals; for You were slaughtered, and You purchased people for God with Your blood from every tribe, language, people, and nation. You have made them into a kingdom and priests to our God, and they will reign upon the earth.”​

The WORLD: All without distinction ... people for God, purchased with HIS blood, from every tribe, language, people, and nation.

Earlier I presented several critical questions:

• So who are "Everyone who believes"?
• What makes the difference between "one who believes" and "one who does not believe"?
• Is it God or man that makes the difference?

The answer to this (they are really one) question is not found in John 3:16-21 ... but it is found in Ephesians chapter 1 and chapter 2 [just in case you wanted to know].

 

[brightfame52]

God says our hearts are hardened when we don't listen to Him,

He said, “Can I not do with you, Israel, as this potter does?” declares the LORD. “Like clay in the hand of the potter, so are you in my hand, Israel. If at any time I announce that a nation or kingdom is to be uprooted, torn down and destroyed and if that nation I warned repents of its evil, then I will relent and not inflict on it the disaster I had planned. And if at another time I announce that a nation or kingdom is to be built up and planted and if it does evil in my sight and does not obey me, then I will reconsider the good I had intended to do for it. Jer.18:6-10 NIV

But exhort one another daily, while it is called To day; lest any of you be hardened through the deceitfulness of sin. Heb.3:13 KJV

So God makes hearts hard simply by what He demands. In other words, "My heart was hardened by God, because I don't like what God said."

Man is born with a hard heart towards God thats why God gives them a new one in regeneration. Ezk 36:26

26 A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.

 

[brightfame52]

I Challenge any reformed to show from John 3.16-18 is not God’s Saving Love for the entire human race.

You will not be able to!

You have been shown scripture. God hated Esau Rom 9:13 and He hates the workers of iniquity Ps 5:5. And on top of that scripture never says God loves the whole human race, It reads He so Loved the World, not the whole human race.

 

[atpollard]

The part where God elects some for salvation and elects some for damnation.

Most people reject "positive-positive" Double Predestination. God ELECTS no one for damnation, just as GOD causes no man to sin.

Does everyone (every person without exception) have equal access to scripture? to Salvation?
Does God OWE EVERYONE equal opportunity for salvation?
Is God culpable for the damnation of a person if Jesus did not appear to them like He appeared to Saul on the road to Damascus?

Just how EGALITARIAN do YOU obligate GOD to be in salvation?

For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life.
John 3:16


Who does WHOEVER refer to?

All without distinction. Rev 5:9 You purchased people for God with Your blood from every tribe, language, people, and nation.

Therefore I exhort first of all that supplications, prayers, intercessions, and giving of thanks be made for all men, for kings and all who are in authority, that we may lead a quiet and peaceable life in all godliness and reverence. For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Savior, who desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth. 1 Timothy 2:1-4

• God desires all men to be saved.

Do you agree with ths scripture?

Yes ... however we may disagree on its meaning. "all without distinction" not "all without exception".
God does not TRY and FAIL, God merely DOES.
(That's what makes HIM God).

 

[brightfame52]

atpollard

God ELECTS no one for damnation

Thats like saying God elected no one to Salvation !

 

[atpollard]

You are blinded by your theology

Enlighten me ...

Malachi 1 [NKJV]

1 The burden of the word of the LORD to Israel by Malachi.​

2 “I have loved you,” says the LORD.​

“Yet you say, ‘In what way have You loved us?’​

Was not Esau Jacob’s brother?”​

Says the LORD.​

“Yet Jacob I have loved;​

3 But Esau I have hated,​

And laid waste his mountains and his heritage​

For the jackals of the wilderness.”​

4 Even though Edom has said,​

“We have been impoverished,​

But we will return and build the desolate places,”​

Thus says the LORD of hosts:​

“They may build, but I will throw down;​

They shall be called the Territory of Wickedness,​

And the people against whom the LORD will have indignation forever.​

5 Your eyes shall see,​

And you shall say,​

‘The LORD is magnified beyond the border of Israel.’​

 

[atpollard]

atpollard



Thats like saying God elected no one to Salvation !

Not according to the Westminster Confession or the London Confession.

However, I prefer SCRIPTURE, so I will provide "two or three" scriptures as "witnesses" to testify that God elects some to SALVATION and you can provide "two or three" scriptures as "witnesses" to testify that God elects some to DAMNATION.

You can start, then I will respond.
[until then, I will affirm "ELECTION TO SALVATION" and reject "ELECTION TO DAMNATION" ... just like the The 1689 Baptist Confession of Faith.]

The 1689 Baptist Confession of Faith
Of God's Decree:

• God hath decreed in himself, from all eternity, by the most wise and holy counsel of His own will, freely and unchangeably, all things, whatsoever comes to pass;1 yet so as thereby is God neither the author of sin nor hath fellowship with any therein;2 nor is violence offered to the will of the creature, nor yet is the liberty or contingency of second causes taken away, but rather established;3 in which appears His wisdom in disposing all things, and power and faithfulness in accomplishing His decree.4
• Although God knoweth whatsoever may or can come to pass, upon all supposed conditions,5 yet hath He not decreed anything, because He foresaw it as future, or as that which would come to pass upon such conditions.6
• By the decree of God, for the manifestation of His glory, some men and angels are predestinated, or foreordained to eternal life through Jesus Christ,7 to the praise of His glorious grace;8 others being left to act in their sin to their just condemnation, to the praise of His glorious justice.9

7 1 Tim. 5:21; Matt. 25:34
8 Eph. 1:5–6
9 Rom. 9:22–23; Jude 4

 

[Iconoclast]

Even John Calvin whom you are supposed to follow says John 3.16 is THE ENTIRE HUMAN RACE!

God preferred Jacob to Easu. Stop twisting what the Bible actually teaches

it says every believing one....you skip that.

 

[brightfame52]

Not according to the Westminster Confession or the London Confession.

However, I prefer SCRIPTURE, so I will provide "two or three" scriptures as "witnesses" to testify that God elects some to SALVATION and you can provide "two or three" scriptures as "witnesses" to testify that God elects some to DAMNATION.

You can start, then I will respond.
[until then, I will affirm "ELECTION TO SALVATION" and reject "ELECTION TO DAMNATION" ... just like the The 1689 Baptist Confession of Faith.]

The 1689 Baptist Confession of Faith
Of God's Decree:

• God hath decreed in himself, from all eternity, by the most wise and holy counsel of His own will, freely and unchangeably, all things, whatsoever comes to pass;1 yet so as thereby is God neither the author of sin nor hath fellowship with any therein;2 nor is violence offered to the will of the creature, nor yet is the liberty or contingency of second causes taken away, but rather established;3 in which appears His wisdom in disposing all things, and power and faithfulness in accomplishing His decree.4
• Although God knoweth whatsoever may or can come to pass, upon all supposed conditions,5 yet hath He not decreed anything, because He foresaw it as future, or as that which would come to pass upon such conditions.6
• By the decree of God, for the manifestation of His glory, some men and angels are predestinated, or foreordained to eternal life through Jesus Christ,7 to the praise of His glorious grace;8 others being left to act in their sin to their just condemnation, to the praise of His glorious justice.9

7 1 Tim. 5:21; Matt. 25:34
8 Eph. 1:5–6
9 Rom. 9:22–23; Jude 4

Again to say that God doesnt elect people to damnation is like saying:

Thats like saying God elected no one to Salvation !

Now has God appointed men to wrath since He appointed some not to wrath 1 Thess 5:9

9 For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ,

 

[SolaScriptura]

You have been shown scripture. God hated Esau Rom 9:13 and He hates the workers of iniquity Ps 5:5. And on top of that scripture never says God loves the whole human race, It reads He so Loved the World, not the whole human race.

RUBBISH! your "theology" says this!

 

[brightfame52]

RUBBISH! your "theology" says this!

Now you are showing your sentiment towards the Truth Rom 9:13; Ps 5:5

 

[journeymanisnothing]

Man is born with a hard heart towards God thats why God gives them a new one in regeneration. Ezk 36:26

26 A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.

See, your interpretation of Eze.36:26 conflicts with Jer.18, but mine doesn't because Eze.36:26 doesn't say man is born with a stony heart.

Peoples hearts can become hard like Eze.26 and Jer.18 both say they can.

You understand now how I have no conflict with these two witnesses of scripture, but you do. Of course you are free to delete my post...again.

 

[brightfame52]

See, your interpretation of Eze.36:26 conflicts with Jer.18, but mine doesn't because Eze.36:26 doesn't say man is born with a stony heart.

Peoples hearts can become hard like Eze.26 and Jer.18 both say they can.

You understand now how I have no conflict with these two witnesses of scripture, but you do. Of course you are free to delete my post...again.

Yes man by nature has a stony[hard] heart in the flesh Ezk 36:26 that must be replaced with a new heart,

26 A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.

Man by natural birth is of the flesh, out the womb Jn 3

6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.

7 Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.

 

[SolaScriptura]

Now you are showing your sentiment towards the Truth Rom 9:13; Ps 5:5

Firstly, Romans 9:13 has been much abused and misused by the "Reformed", to push their nonsense theology!

Let us look at the actual context, and see what God is saying here

Rom 9:10-13

10 And not only this, but when Rebecca also had conceived by one man, even by our father Isaac 11 (for the children not yet being born, nor having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works but of Him who calls), 12 it was said to her, "The older shall serve the younger." 13 As it is written, "Jacob I have loved, but Esau I have hated.

it is very clear to the UNBIASED, what his being said here

God's CHOICE here, has NOTHING to do with "salvation", but the fact, that "The older shall serve the younger", which is for SERVICE!

Note what follows, "Jacob I have loved, but Esau I have hated". which means, I PREFER Jacob over Esau!

Very simple, if read as God intends and not through BIASED theology as "Calvinism" tries to FORCE what God actually says!

Secondly, Psalms 5:5, "The boastful shall not stand before Your eyes; You hate all who do iniquity"

Also includes what Psalm 106:40 says, "Therefore the anger of the LORD was kindled against His people And He detested His own inheritance"

God here DETESTS His own Inheritance, and is ANGRY with His own!

These words do not apply to the unsaved, as they are NOT "God's people or Inheritance. So your argument from this is MOOT!