Understanding the obedience of faith.

[JLB]

But now is made manifest, and by the scriptures of the prophets, according to the commandment of the everlasting God, made known to all nations for the obedience of faith: Romans 16:26

The principle of the obedience of faith is found throughout the Bible, but has been often misunderstood by the people of God.


The entire book of Romans contextually framed with this principle or “law” of faith.

Concerning his Son Jesus Christ our Lord, which was made of the seed of David according to the flesh; And declared to be the Son of God with power, according to the spirit of holiness, by the resurrection from the dead: By whom we have received grace and apostleship, for obedience to the faith among all nations, for his name: Among whom are ye also the called of Jesus Christ: Romans 1:3-5


But now is made manifest, and by the scriptures of the prophets, according to the commandment of the everlasting God, made known to all nations for the obedience of faith: Romans 16:26


Obedience is the operational principle by which faith is activated (made alive) and is able to function and bring about the intended divine result.


Basically the term “by faith” literally means God spoke to a person and they obeyed what they heard. We receive faith when God speaks to us; whether directly or indirectly as through someone He sends to preach the Gospel.

But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Isaiah says, “LORD, who has believed our report?” So then faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.
Romans 10:16-17

• faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.

Example:

By faith Noah, being divinely warned of things not yet seen, moved with godly fear, prepared an ark for the saving of his household, by which he condemned the world and became heir of the righteousness which is according to faith. Hebrews 11:7

God spoke to, moved upon, inspired Noah to built the ark. Noah obeyed.


By faith Abraham obeyed when he was called to go out to the place which he would receive as an inheritance. And he went out, not knowing where he was going.
Hebrews 11:8

God spoke to, inspired, moved upon Abraham to get out of his father’s house, and to go to a land he had never been to. Abraham obeyed.


James teaches the same thing.


Thus also faith by itself, if it does not have works, is dead.
But someone will say, “You have faith, and I have works.” Show me your faith without your works, and I will show you my faith by my works. You believe that there is one God. You do well. Even the demons believe—and tremble! But do you want to know, O foolish man, that faith without works is dead? Was not Abraham our father justified by works when he offered Isaac his son on the altar? James 2:17-21

The “work” or action Abraham did was to obey the Lord to offer his son Isaac on the altar.


For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.
James 2:26


Not the works of the law.
Not good works.
Not work that earns a wage.

The corresponding “work” (action) of obedience.


The obedience of faith.





JLB

 

[Hidden In Him]

Thus also faith by itself, if it does not have works, is dead.
But someone will say, “You have faith, and I have works.” Show me your faith without your works, and I will show you my faith by my works. You believe that there is one God. You do well. Even the demons believe—and tremble! But do you want to know, O foolish man, that faith without works is dead? Was not Abraham our father justified by works when he offered Isaac his son on the altar? James 2:17-21

The “work” or action Abraham did was to obey the Lord to offer his son Isaac on the altar.


For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.
James 2:26

Yes, and James also taught that our faith is accounted unto us as righteousness because of the same principle. When we act upon the commands of God in faith, trusting that He will do what He has promised if we do, it establishes the fact that we are fully intent on continuing to obey Him to the best of our ability (or rather His ability in us) until He finally produces in us what was intended, and we become fully conformed to His image, glory to God. This is why our faith is accounted unto us AS righteousness. It gives evidence we will keep seeking to obey the Lord until His goals for us are achieved. As Hebrews put it, our faith thus becomes "the substance of things hoped for."

 

[JLB]

Yes, and James also taught that our faith is accounted unto us as righteousness because of the same principle. When we act upon the commands of God in faith, trusting that He will do what He has promised if we do, it establishes the fact that we are fully intent on continuing to obey Him to the best of our ability (or rather His ability in us) until He finally produces in us what was intended, and we become fully conformed to His image, glory to God. This is why our faith is accounted unto us AS righteousness. It gives evidence we will keep seeking to obey the Lord until His goals for us are achieved. As Hebrews put it, our faith thus becomes "the substance of things hoped for."

Amen.

So another example of this is found in the woman with the issue of blood.

And suddenly, a woman who had a flow of blood for twelve years came from behind and touched the hem of His garment. For she said to herself, “If only I may touch His garment, I shall be made well.” But Jesus turned around, and when He saw her He said, “Be of good cheer, daughter; your faith has made you well.” And the woman was made well from that hour.
Matthew 9:20-22

• For she said to herself, “If only I may touch His garment, I shall be made well.

She didn’t come up with that idea on her own.

God moved upon her heart, inspired her, to move forward and touch the hem of His garment.

She had faith when God spoke to her.

Her faith became the reality of healing when she obeyed and pressed past the crowds to touch His garment.

 

[stovebolts]

A good word brother JLB
I like the example of the woman you cited earlier. I also like to use Peter stepping out of the boat. Faith is believing you can do the things Jesus asks us to do… even if it looks impossible.

 

[mailmandan]

But now is made manifest, and by the scriptures of the prophets, according to the commandment of the everlasting God, made known to all nations for the obedience of faith: Romans 16:26

The principle of the obedience of faith is found throughout the Bible but has been often misunderstood by the people of God.

Misunderstanding that culminates in salvation by faith + obedience/works.

The entire book of Romans contextually framed with this principle or “law” of faith.

Concerning his Son Jesus Christ our Lord, which was made of the seed of David according to the flesh; And declared to be the Son of God with power, according to the spirit of holiness, by the resurrection from the dead: By whom we have received grace and apostleship, for obedience to the faith among all nations, for his name: Among whom are ye also the called of Jesus Christ: Romans 1:3-5

But now is made manifest, and by the scriptures of the prophets, according to the commandment of the everlasting God, made known to all nations for the obedience of faith: Romans 16:26

Obedience is the operational principle by which faith is activated (made alive) and is able to function and bring about the intended divine result.

Basically the term “by faith” literally means God spoke to a person and they obeyed what they heard. We receive faith when God speaks to us; whether directly or indirectly as through someone He sends to preach the Gospel.

In regard to Romans 1:5; 16:26, now although Paul can speak of people’s initial response of choosing to believe the gospel as an act of obedience, in which he describes it as "obeying the gospel" (Romans 10:16; 1:16) which is the act of obedience that saves, in contrast with not obeying the gospel (2 Thessalonians 1:8) by refusing to believe the gospel (2 Corinthians 4:3,4) the purpose of Paul’s apostleship was not merely to bring people to conversion but also to bring about transformed lives that were obedient to God after conversion. Notice that Paul said they HAVE (already) received grace and apostleship FOR/UNTO obedience to the faith. (Romans 1:5)

Just as in Ephesians 2:10, Paul said that we are created in Christ Jesus FOR/UNTO good works. We are clearly saved FOR good works, NOT BY good works. (Ephesians 2:10) Paul did not say that they did not receive grace and apostleship until they produced obedience afterwards. We are justified (accounted as righteous) by faith.. (Romans 5:1) not faith "and obedience/works" and we have access by faith into grace.. (Romans 5:2) not faith "and obedience/works." We are saved through faith in Jesus Christ first, having been made alive together with Christ, by grace through faith we were saved, not by works, then "unto" obedience/works. (Ephesians 2:5-10)

But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Isaiah says, “LORD, who has believed our report?” So then faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.

Romans 10:16-17

faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.

Amen! We obey the gospel by choosing to believe the gospel.

Example:

By faith Noah, being divinely warned of things not yet seen, moved with godly fear, prepared an ark for the saving of his household, by which he condemned the world and became heir of the righteousness which is according to faith. Hebrews 11:7

God spoke to, moved upon, inspired Noah to built the ark. Noah obeyed.

Noah had already "found grace" in the eyes of the Lord (Genesis 6:8), was a just man who walked with God (Geneiss 6:9) and a preacher of righteousness (2 Peter 2:5), BEFORE he built the ark. His obedience was a DEMONSTRATION of his faith and not the origin of it. Building the ark saved Noah and his family (physically) from drowning. (Hebrews 11:7)

By faith Abraham obeyed when he was called to go out to the place which he would receive as an inheritance. And he went out, not knowing where he was going.
Hebrews 11:8

God spoke to, inspired, moved upon Abraham to get out of his father’s house, and to go to a land he had never been to. Abraham obeyed.

Yet it was not until Genesis 15:5-6 when God brought Abraham outside and said, “Look now toward heaven, and count the stars if you are able to number them.” And He said to him, “So shall your descendants be.” And he believed in the Lord, and He accounted it to him for righteousness.

James teaches the same thing.

Thus also faith by itself, if it does not have works, is dead.
But someone will say, “You have faith, and I have works.” Show me your faith without your works, and I will show you my faith by my works. You believe that there is one God. You do well. Even the demons believe—and tremble! But do you want to know, O foolish man, that faith without works is dead? Was not Abraham our father justified by works when he offered Isaac his son on the altar? James 2:17-21

In James 2:14, we read of one who says/claims he has faith but has no works (to evidence his claim). That is not genuine faith, but a bare profession of faith. So, when James asks, "Can that faith save him?" he is saying nothing against genuine faith, but only against an empty profession of faith/dead faith. So, James does not teach that we are saved "by" works. His concern is to show the reality of the faith professed by the individual (James 2:18) and demonstrate that the faith claimed (James 2:14) by the individual is genuine.

Faith, that remains by itself and produces no works is not genuine faith but a bare profession of faith. We show our faith by our works (James 2:18) but we do not establish it. (Ephesians 2:5-9) In James 2:19, we read that the demons believe "mental assent" that "there is one God", yet they do not believe in/have faith in/trust in/reliance in Jesus Christ for salvation. In other words, they do not believe on/in the Lord Jesus Christ and are not saved. (Acts 16:31) Their trust and reliance are in Satan as demonstrated by their rebellion in heaven and continuous evil works.

The “work” or action Abraham did was to obey the Lord to offer his son Isaac on the altar.

In James 2:21, notice closely that James does not say that Abraham's work of offering up Isaac resulted in God accounting Abraham as righteous. The accounting of Abraham's faith as righteousness was made in Genesis 15:6, many years before his work of offering up Isaac recorded in Genesis 22.

The work of Abraham did not have some kind of intrinsic merit to account him as righteous, but it showed or manifested the genuineness of his faith. (James 2:18) That is the "sense" in which Abraham was "justified by works." He was shown to be righteous.

James is not using the word "justified" to mean "accounted as righteous" but is shown to be righteous. James is discussing the evidence of faith (says-claims to have faith but has no works/I will show you my faith by my works - James 2:14-18) and not the initial act of being accounted as righteous with God. (Romans 4:2-3)

For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.
James 2:26

The comparison of the human spirit and faith here converge around their modes of operation. The spirit (Greek pneuma) may also be translated "breath." As a breathless body exhibits no indication of life, so fruitless faith exhibits no indication of life. The source of the life in faith is not works; rather, life in faith is the source of works. (Ephesians 2:5-10)

Not the works of the law.
Not good works.
Not work that earns a wage.

The corresponding “work” (action) of obedience.

Oxymoron.

The obedience of faith.

Salvation by obedience/works which follows faith is not the obedience of faith.

 

[JLB]

We obey the gospel by choosing to believe the gospel.

Obeying the gospel command “repent” results in confessing Jesus as Lord.

 

[JLB]

Salvation by obedience/works which follows faith is not the obedience of faith.

Wow. Super word salad.

I never said any such of a thing.

 

[mailmandan]

Obeying the gospel command “repent” results in confessing Jesus as Lord.

What happened to believing the gospel? (Romans 1:16)

 

[mailmandan]

Wow. Super word salad.

I never said any such of a thing.

Allow me to simplify. Seeking salvation by works is not obedience. (Matthew 7:22-23)

 

[JLB]

What happened to believing the gospel? (Romans 1:16)

It’s right there with obeying the gospel.

But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Isaiah says, “LORD, who has believed our report?” Romans 10:16

 

[JLB]

Allow me to simplify. Seeking salvation by works is not obedience. (Matthew 7:22-23)

Where has anyone said anything about “seeking salvation by works”?

Are you aware that the biblical word believe means commit, trust and obey.

Believe and obey are used interchangeably in the scriptures.

He who believes in the Son has everlasting life; and he who does not believe the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God abides on him.”
John 3:36 NKJV

He who believes in the Son has eternal life; but he who does not obey the Son will not see life, but the wrath of God abides on him.” John 3:36 NASB


Unbelief = Disobedience

 

[mailmandan]

It’s right there with obeying the gospel.

But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Isaiah says, “LORD, who has believed our report?” Romans 10:16

We obey the gospel by choosing to believe the gospel. Do you believe that or do you add more to the equation?

 

[mailmandan]

Where has anyone said anything about “seeking salvation by works”?

It seems to be implied quite often.

Are you aware that the biblical word believe means commit, trust and obey.

Obedience which follows believing is works.

Believe and obey are used interchangeably in the scriptures.

He who believes in the Son has everlasting life; and he who does not believe the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God abides on him.”
John 3:36 NKJV

He who believes in the Son has eternal life; but he who does not obey the Son will not see life, but the wrath of God abides on him.” John 3:36 NASB

Unbelief = Disobedience

I often hear those who promote salvation by works cite John 3:36 from the NASB and "stress" the word "obey" to imply that we are saved by "obedience/works" in addition to believing. In regard to "does not obey the Son" in the New American Standard translation of the Bible, this does not mean that receiving eternal life is received based on the merits of our obedience/works which follows believing in the Son but obey by choosing to believe in the Son. If John wanted to make obedience the central theme in salvation here, he would have said: "He who believes and obeys the Son has eternal life," but that is not what John said. To obey the Son here is to choose to believe in the Son.

The KJV renders this same verse as: He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that "believeth not the Son" shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him. The NIV says "rejects the Son" and the HCSB says, "refuses to believe in the Son." The Greek word translated as "believeth not" in that verse is apeitheo and it means: "not believe, disobedient, obey not, unbelieving." Strong’s definition of apeitheo is "to disbelieve willfully and perversely." In the context of 3:36, to "not obey the Son" means to reject the Son by refusing to believe in the Son.

 

[JLB]

Obedience which follows believing is works.

Biblical believing involves obedience.

Demonic believing requires no obedience.

You believe that there is one God. You do well. Even the demons believe—and tremble! James 2:19

 

[JLB]

I often hear those who promote salvation by works cite John 3:36 from the NASB and "stress" the word "obey" to imply that we are saved by "obedience/works" in addition to believing.

If faith doesn’t have obedience then it’s dead.

Obeying the gospel which is confessing Jesus as Lord is what is required for salvation.

that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved. Romans 10:9

 

[mailmandan]

Biblical believing involves obedience.

Demonic believing requires no obedience.

You believe that there is one God. You do well. Even the demons believe—and tremble! James 2:19

Obedience/works follows believing as the fruit of salvation but not the root of it.

 

[JLB]

Obedience/works follows believing as the fruit of salvation but not the root of it.

Maybe, maybe not.

I don’t teach such things.

I’m referring to the biblical principle of the obedience of faith.

 

[mailmandan]

If faith doesn’t have obedience then it’s dead.

If faith produces no obedience at all then it demonstrates that its dead. That is not genuine faith but a bare profession of faith. (James 2:14)

Obeying the gospel which is confessing Jesus as Lord is what is required for salvation.

We obey the gospel by choosing to believe the gospel. (Romans 10:16) Confession is a confirmation of faith and not a work for salvation that follows faith.

that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved. Romans 10:9

Confession is a confirmation of faith (which is why we will be saved if we confess) and not a work for salvation that follows believing unto righteousness. Confessing with our mouth that Jesus is Lord and believing in our heart that God raised Him from the dead are not two separate steps to salvation but are chronologically together.

Romans 10:8 - But what does it say? "The word is near you, in your mouth and in your heart" (TOGETHER) that is, the word of faith which we are preaching, (notice the reverse order from verse 9-10) - that if you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved; 10 for with the heart one believes unto righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. Confess/believe; believe/confess.

 

[mailmandan]

Maybe, maybe not.

I don’t teach such things.

I’m referring to the biblical principle of the obedience of faith.

Ambiguous word salad.

 

[mailmandan]

Biblical believing involves obedience.

Biblical believing results in producing obedience because its alive in Christ. (Ephesians 2:5-10)

Demonic believing requires no obedience.

Demonic believing involves mere mental assent belief but not trust and reliance in Jesus Christ for salvation.

You believe that there is one God. You do well. Even the demons believe—and tremble! James 2:19

The demons believe "mental assent" that "there is one God" but they do not believe in/on the Lord Jesus Christ and are not saved. (Actsc16:31) Their trust and reliance is in Satan (and not Jesus) as demonstrated by their rebellion in heaven and continuous evil works.