[__ Science __ ] Adam, Eve, and Evolution

[TonyChanYT]

By evolution, I mean the scientific theory that posits all living organisms are related and have descended from common ancestors.

I should preamble this by saying that the following are all my speculations.

On Day 6, God created Adam (Ge 1:27). How old was Adam?

According to a witness or observer, he was only one day old. According to spacetime appearance, he was some years old.

Which is the right answer?

Both are right, depending on the time perspective.

From the scientific perspective in terms of spacetime, God created the earth with evolutionary events, including dinosaurs, Homo neanderthalensis, etc., embedded in it. According to paleontology, Neanderthals disappeared 40,000 years ago, around the time of the emergence of Homo sapiens. The two species overlapped for a few thousand years. The exact reasons for their extinction are not fully understood. Some guess that they could not compete with the smarter new species. There was interbreeding. Homo sapiens fossils were found in Australia and the Americas. Homo sapiens fossils were found in Africa, Europe, the Middle East, Asia, Australia and the Americas. Today, we carry 1% of their DNA. The unusual fact is that of all the dozens of homo (human) species that existed, home sapiens (sapiens) is the only one surviving today.

But then, Jesus cited Gn 1:27 in Mt 19:

4 “Have you not read that he who created them from the beginning made them male and female.

I distinguish between two measurements of time: spacetime and witness-time. Here is a thought experiment: God has just made Adam, and Eve has not been made yet. You have not witnessed the creation of Adam. Imagine you are a doctor. You have just met Adam. What is your expert opinion of Adam's age? From your scientific measurements, you may determine that Adam is 20 years old. But from the witness time point of view, which you have no access to, he is only 1 day old.

Today's humans, Adam, Eve, and so on, anatomically belong to Homo sapiens. Both Neanderthals and we have 46 chromosomes, though there is some uncertainty about that. Neanderthals existed only in spacetime and not in witnessed-time; as such, they never received a breath of God in their spirits. They would not be judged to go to heaven or hell. The last ice age maximum happened about 20,000 years ago. That's before Adam and Eve.

From the biblical point of view, God created Adam and Eve in witnessed-time as described in Genesis. Acts 17:

26 From one man he made all the nations, that they should inhabit the whole earth; and he marked out their appointed times in history and the boundaries of their lands.

Both perspectives are true: witnessed-time and spacetime. Both are real. Scientists found 46,000-year-old roundworms alive beneath the Arctic ice.

After the last deglaciation, around 10,000 BCE, Adam and Eve were expelled from the Garden of Eden and entered the backdrop of the Neolithic Age of Mesopotamia. Physical evidence indicates that farming started around 10,000 BCE and humans domesticated sheep around 9,000 BCE. Cain was a farmer, and Abel was a shepherd. Noah's flood happened around 6,000 BCE.

This is my attempt to harmonize the biblical narrative with scientific evidence by proposing a dual understanding of time. Fossils recorded the evolutionary development of life on Earth in space-time. Adam and Eve were created as Homo sapiens spiritual beings in witnessed time. This allows for the acceptance of evolutionary processes in spacetime while maintaining the unique spiritual significance of Adam and Eve in witnessed-time. Homo sapiens evolved in space-time while God created Adam and Eve within witnessed-time.

Was there evidence of deaths before Adam and Eve sinned?

From the point of view of witnessd-time, no. From the point of view of spacetime, probably yes, or else God could have done the embedding after he cursed the ground. In either case, there was no evidence of deaths in the Garden of Eden before they sinned.

Can you be Christian and believe in evolution?

Sure, but you don't have to. You can assume evolution happened in spacetime without believing in it.

Evolution relied on random chance?

I don't know of anyone who claims that except some Christians and their incompetent apologists. I can tell you that when I chose whom to marry, it wasn't random; in fact, I was being rather picky

My advice is this: Don't try to learn Big Bang Theory or Evolution from a half-baked Christian philosopher. It would give you gas.

See also

• How old is the earth?
• The utility of evolution

 

[Elijah7777]

On Day 6, God created Adam (Ge 1:27). How old was Adam?

Adam was born around 6,000 years ago. In Gen 1:27 you are talking about mankind. The Great Rift Valley is often considered the cradle of humanity, with fossil evidence of early humans dating back millions of years. Civilization began in the Middle East with Adam and Eve in Ancient Mesopotamia. This is the eco system that Noah saved on his Ark.

 

[Elijah7777]

Was there evidence of deaths before Adam and Eve sinned?

There was death before Adam and Eve 6,000 years ago. Paul explains this in Romans 5:12 "Therefore, just as sin entered the world through one man, and death through sin, and in this way death came to all people, because all sinned". There was no sin in the world before Adam and Eve so no death from sin.

Adam and Eve did not eat animals according to the biblical account. In Genesis 1:29–30, God gave them every seed-bearing plant and fruit-bearing tree for food, and He also provided green plants for the animals. This suggests that both humans and animals originally had a plant-based diet.

Plants do not always have to die in order to eat their fruit.

 

[Elijah7777]

The exact reasons for their extinction are not fully understood.

We read in Exodus 23:29, where God says: "I will not drive them out before you in a single year; otherwise the land would become desolate and wild animals would multiply against you."

 

[daddd]

On Day 6, God created Adam (Ge 1:27). How old was Adam?

One day old. Any other view would be wrong

 

[Elijah7777]

One day old. Any other view would be wrong

Jesus died in place of Adam and they were both the exact same age. Only Jesus died 4,000 years later. Adam lived was almost 6,000 years ago. Some people refer to the Kingdom age as the third day from Jesus or the seventh day from Adam. Some people get Adam in Genesis 2 confused with mankind in Chapter one.

Genesis 2:7 "Then the Lord God formed a man from the dust of the ground and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life, and the man became a living being."

 

[daddd]

Jesus died in place of Adam and they were both the exact same age.

No, Jesus was 33. Not one day old

Only Jesus died 4,000 years later.
Adam lived was almost 6,000 years ago. Some people refer to the Kingdom age as the third day from Jesus or the seventh day from Adam. Some people get Adam in Genesis 2 confused with mankind in Chapter one.

Genesis 2:7 "Then the Lord God formed a man from the dust of the ground and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life, and the man became a living being."

No doubt some do get confused

 

[Elijah7777]

No doubt some do get confused

As a theistic evolutionist, I see no conflict between Science and the Bible. NO one has ever been able to show me a contradiction. Although many have tried. That does not mean I support Darwin's theory of evolution. That is just the term we use.

 

[onlysaved]

By evolution, I mean the scientific theory that posits all living organisms are related and have descended from common ancestors.

I should preamble this by saying that the following are all my speculations.

On Day 6, God created Adam (Ge 1:27). How old was Adam?

According to a witness or observer, he was only one day old. According to spacetime appearance, he was some years old.

Which is the right answer?

Both are right, depending on the time perspective.

From the scientific perspective in terms of spacetime, God created the earth with evolutionary events, including dinosaurs, Homo neanderthalensis, etc., embedded in it. According to paleontology, Neanderthals disappeared 40,000 years ago, around the time of the emergence of Homo sapiens. The two species overlapped for a few thousand years. The exact reasons for their extinction are not fully understood. Some guess that they could not compete with the smarter new species. There was interbreeding. Homo sapiens fossils were found in Australia and the Americas. Homo sapiens fossils were found in Africa, Europe, the Middle East, Asia, Australia and the Americas. Today, we carry 1% of their DNA. The unusual fact is that of all the dozens of homo (human) species that existed, home sapiens (sapiens) is the only one surviving today.

But then, Jesus cited Gn 1:27 in Mt 19:


I distinguish between two measurements of time: spacetime and witness-time. Here is a thought experiment: God has just made Adam, and Eve has not been made yet. You have not witnessed the creation of Adam. Imagine you are a doctor. You have just met Adam. What is your expert opinion of Adam's age? From your scientific measurements, you may determine that Adam is 20 years old. But from the witness time point of view, which you have no access to, he is only 1 day old.

Today's humans, Adam, Eve, and so on, anatomically belong to Homo sapiens. Both Neanderthals and we have 46 chromosomes, though there is some uncertainty about that. Neanderthals existed only in spacetime and not in witnessed-time; as such, they never received a breath of God in their spirits. They would not be judged to go to heaven or hell. The last ice age maximum happened about 20,000 years ago. That's before Adam and Eve.

From the biblical point of view, God created Adam and Eve in witnessed-time as described in Genesis. Acts 17:


Both perspectives are true: witnessed-time and spacetime. Both are real. Scientists found 46,000-year-old roundworms alive beneath the Arctic ice.

After the last deglaciation, around 10,000 BCE, Adam and Eve were expelled from the Garden of Eden and entered the backdrop of the Neolithic Age of Mesopotamia. Physical evidence indicates that farming started around 10,000 BCE and humans domesticated sheep around 9,000 BCE. Cain was a farmer, and Abel was a shepherd. Noah's flood happened around 6,000 BCE.

This is my attempt to harmonize the biblical narrative with scientific evidence by proposing a dual understanding of time. Fossils recorded the evolutionary development of life on Earth in space-time. Adam and Eve were created as Homo sapiens spiritual beings in witnessed time. This allows for the acceptance of evolutionary processes in spacetime while maintaining the unique spiritual significance of Adam and Eve in witnessed-time. Homo sapiens evolved in space-time while God created Adam and Eve within witnessed-time.

Was there evidence of deaths before Adam and Eve sinned?

From the point of view of witnessd-time, no. From the point of view of spacetime, probably yes, or else God could have done the embedding after he cursed the ground. In either case, there was no evidence of deaths in the Garden of Eden before they sinned.

Can you be Christian and believe in evolution?

Sure, but you don't have to. You can assume evolution happened in spacetime without believing in it.

Evolution relied on random chance?

I don't know of anyone who claims that except some Christians and their incompetent apologists. I can tell you that when I chose whom to marry, it wasn't random; in fact, I was being rather picky

My advice is this: Don't try to learn Big Bang Theory or Evolution from a half-baked Christian philosopher. It would give you gas.

See also

• How old is the earth?
• The utility of evolution

One big problem.

The Bible is in no way beholden to science and we do not need to make it mesh with science.
God's word as recorded in our bibles is the authority on all things in existence. Science is subordinate to the Bible if at any point science and the bible are divergent science by definition is wrong.
What God wants me to know about creation.
1. It took 6 days
2. Everything was created after it's own kind
3. Adam was the first living being on the planet.

It is my opinion that everything on earth was created at an adult stage.
All animals and plants were ready to reproduce at creation
Geology likewise was created with various degrees of carbon degradation.
But then again we do not need to explain any of this. It is the job of science to conform to what God says at any point it does not it's simply wrong.

 

[Elijah7777]

The Bible is in no way beholden to science and we do not need to make it mesh with science.

No one has ever shown me a contradiction between science and the Bible. Many have tried and failed. Science goes a long way to prove that the Bible is 100% accurate and true. Although science deals more with facts. History, archeology also goes a long way to show us how accurate and true the Bible is. 100 years ago all the archeology about the Bible really got people excited.

 

[Elijah7777]

3. Adam was the first living being on the planet.

Adam was the first to have the breath of life. The Hebrew word for "breath of life" is נְשָׁמָה (neshamah). This word is used in Genesis 2:7, where God breathes life into Adam, making him a living being. It conveys the idea of divine inspiration, vitality, and the essence of life itself. Another related term is רוּחַ (ruach), which can mean "spirit" or "wind" and is sometimes associated with breath in a spiritual sense.

 

[daddd]

As a theistic evolutionist, I see no conflict between Science and the Bible.

So explain how the first woman came from the man as the bible says with theistic evolution exactly?

NO one has ever been able to show me a contradiction.

See above. Also, if a monkey thingie had a baby that was the first human, it would not be created. Nor does that fit the whole theme of the bible about sin. So God built a garden once He saw that a person was born to the creature? No.

 

[Elijah7777]

So explain how the first woman came from the man as the bible says with theistic evolution exactly?

Now I am in trouble. First of all, EVE did NOT come from Adam's RIB. She came from his side. The question is WHEN did God make male and female? That was all the way back at the beginning when single-cell organisms became male and female to recombine the DNA. Of course, Adam and Eve, 6,000 years ago in Eden, had the breath of life. Eve was the first woman and she was called woman before Adam called her Eve.

Also, if a monkey thingie had a baby that was the first human, it would not be created.

LET ME repeat AGAIN what I said. Just because we use the term Theistic Evolution does not mean we are here to argue for the theory of evolution. THE MAIN thing is. Adam and Eve were a COMMON ancestor for all the people we read about in the Bible. They are not gentiles, mankind, they are Hebrew and Abraham descended from them. In fact the one thing I want to see in Heaven is the very first conversation Mary and Eve had with each other. Because Jesus had to be a descendant of Eve. Genesis 3:15 ""I will put enmity between you and the woman, and between your offspring and hers; he will crush your head, and you will strike his heel." (NIV)

Of course Bible Adam and Eve are not the same people as Science Time magazine Adam and Eve. But in both cases you have common ancestors. This is what Geneology or the Generations is all about. Where the Bible says:

• Genesis 2:4 – "These are the generations of the heavens and the earth..."
• Genesis 5:1 – "This is the book of the generations of Adam..."
• Genesis 6:9 – "These are the generations of Noah..."

• Woman (singular) refers to one adult female.
  
  
• Women (plural) refers to more than one adult female.
  
  
• Genesis one is plural, Genesis chapter two is singular.

The difference between woman and female lies in their usage and meaning:

• Female refers to the biological sex of an organism. It can apply to humans, animals, or even plants.
  
  
• Woman refers specifically to an adult human female and is a gendered term.
  

 

[onlysaved]

Now I am in trouble. First of all, EVE did NOT come from Adam's RIB. She came from his side. The question is WHEN did God make male and female? That was all the way back at the beginning when single-cell organisms became male and female to recombine the DNA. Of course, Adam and Eve, 6,000 years ago in Eden, had the breath of life. Eve was the first woman and she was called woman before Adam called her Eve.

LET ME repeat AGAIN what I said. Just because we use the term Theistic Evolution does not mean we are here to argue for the theory of evolution. THE MAIN thing is. Adam and Eve were a COMMON ancestor for all the people we read about in the Bible. They are not gentiles, mankind, they are Hebrew and Abraham descended from them. In fact the one thing I want to see in Heaven is the very first conversation Mary and Eve had with each other. Because Jesus had to be a descendant of Eve. Genesis 3:15 ""I will put enmity between you and the woman, and between your offspring and hers; he will crush your head, and you will strike his heel." (NIV)

Of course Bible Adam and Eve are not the same people as Science Time magazine Adam and Eve. But in both cases you have common ancestors. This is what Geneology or the Generations is all about. Where the Bible says:

• Genesis 2:4 – "These are the generations of the heavens and the earth..."
• Genesis 5:1 – "This is the book of the generations of Adam..."
• Genesis 6:9 – "These are the generations of Noah..."

• Woman (singular) refers to one adult female.
  
  
• Women (plural) refers to more than one adult female.
  
  
• Genesis one is plural, Genesis chapter two is singular.

The difference between woman and female lies in their usage and meaning:

• Female refers to the biological sex of an organism. It can apply to humans, animals, or even plants.
  
  
• Woman refers specifically to an adult human female and is a gendered term.

Adam was created by God as an adult male Homo Sapian in a supernatural creation event taking one day. There was no evolution involved. No adaptation of species, no ancestors, nothing God created Adam.
There is absolutely no need to science up the book of Genesis.

 

[daddd]

Now I am in trouble. First of all, EVE did NOT come from Adam's RIB. She came from his side.

Irrelevant to the point. Bone of my bones he said. She was taken from a part of a man and God created the woman from it

The question is WHEN did God make male and female?

When He made them of course. Adam is called 'the man' you know. They were commanded to multiply. You don't get that with same sex couples.

That was all the way back at the beginning when single-cell organisms became male and female to recombine the DNA.

No, nothing to do with the little organisms that were also created that same week.

Of course, Adam and Eve, 6,000 years ago in Eden, had the breath of life.

Only because God Personally breathed life into the man.

Eve was the first woman and she was called woman before Adam called her Eve.

So? Call her greta if you like, the point is she was the first woman on earth.

LET ME repeat AGAIN what I said. Just because we use the term Theistic Evolution does not mean we are here to argue for the theory of evolution. THE MAIN thing is. Adam and Eve were a COMMON ancestor for all the people we read about in the Bible.

Yes. The first couple

They are not gentiles, mankind, they are Hebrew

There were no Hebrews in Eden actually.

and Abraham descended from them. In fact the one thing I want to see in Heaven is the very first conversation Mary and Eve had with each other. Because Jesus had to be a descendant of Eve. Genesis 3:15 ""I will put enmity between you and the woman, and between your offspring and hers; he will crush your head, and you will strike his heel." (NIV)

Of course Bible Adam and Eve are not the same people as Science Time magazine Adam and Eve. But in both cases you have common ancestors. This is what Geneology or the Generations is all about. Where the Bible says:

• Genesis 2:4 – "These are the generations of the heavens and the earth..."
• Genesis 5:1 – "This is the book of the generations of Adam..."
• Genesis 6:9 – "These are the generations of Noah..."

• Woman (singular) refers to one adult female.
  
  
• Women (plural) refers to more than one adult female.
  
  
• Genesis one is plural, Genesis chapter two is singular.

No. He refers to Eve as the woman. Not plural. God did not make female sextuplets from Adam's bone.

The difference between woman and female lies in their usage and meaning:

• Female refers to the biological sex of an organism. It can apply to humans, animals, or even plants.
  
  
• Woman refers specifically to an adult human female and is a gendered term.

Great. So? I think we can avoid wasting time with semantics and word games about Eve being called a woman. She was the first female and she came from the body of a man, created by God. That in no way jives with the theory of evolution.

 

[Elijah7777]

Irrelevant to the point. Bone of my bones he said. She was taken from a part of a man and God created the woman from it

This is why randomness does not exist in science. God created males and females and breathed life into them, so they became men and women. God declares the end from the beginning and watches over His word to fulfill
His plan and purpose.

Now my question is why did God make male and female, and how is that a type of Jesus and His bride?

You don't get that with same sex couples.

So the Church no longer represents God. The Church age has come to an end. Even though the catholic church does not perform same sex marriage, they will still bless them.

No, nothing to do with the little organisms that were also created that same week.

Only a day is 1,000 years. The ice age ended 13,000 years ago when there was a massive extinction. No more saber tooth tigers, no more wholly mammoth. Woolly mammoths were massive herbivores, adapted to cold climates with thick fur and long tusks. They roamed in herds and were likely targeted by predators only when vulnerable

the point is she was the first woman on earth.c

Exactly, the first woman, not the first female. But no one seems to know the difference between a woman and a female. Just like there is a difference between a male and a man. Even the country singers who sing about being a woman, do not seem to get it to know the difference. One is an animal and the other is made in the image of God. This is why even Jesus referred to the Gentiles as dogs.

 

[Elijah7777]

There were no Hebrews in Eden actually.

I went to high school with holocaust survivors that were very offended by the use of the word "Jew". They asked me to use the word Hebrew and I still honor their request 50 years later. This is not an issue for those that did not endure the Holocaust. They want people to use a derogatory term because that way they can prevent people from profaning their real name and who they are.

I think we can avoid wasting time with semantics

Semantics is the study of meaning in language. If you do not study Hebrew you will not understand the Bible because Hebrew is the language the Bible is written in. The Hebrew Bible was written primarily in Biblical Hebrew, with some portions in Biblical Aramaic. Compiled and canonized during the Second Temple Period, with the Torah being recognized as authoritative by the 5th century BCE, and the full canon finalized by the 2nd century CE.

The Bible emphasizes that God watches over His word to ensure His plans and purposes are fulfilled.

• Jeremiah 1:12 – "Then the Lord said to me, ‘You have seen well, for I am ready to perform My word.’"
• Isaiah 55:11 – "So shall My word be that goes forth from My mouth; it shall not return to Me void, but it shall accomplish what I please."
• Psalm 119:89 – "Forever, O Lord, Your word is settled in heaven."

 

[daddd]

This is why randomness does not exist in science. God created males and females and breathed life into them

I don't recall Him breathing life into Eve?

, so they became men and women.

No, He made the man alive. The man became alive, not a man.

God declares the end from the beginning and watches over His word to fulfill
His plan and purpose.

Now my question is why did God make male and female, and how is that a type of Jesus and His bride?

Not sure we need to question Him. How would a marriage NOT by a type of the relationship with Jesus?

So the Church no longer represents God. The Church age has come to an end.

Say what? When Jesus raises us up in the air to be with Him, it ends.

Even though the catholic church does not perform same sex marriage, they will still bless them.

So they are in apostasy then, if that is true. OK

Only a day is 1,000 years.

No. A day to us is a day. As Jesus said 'are there not twelve hours in a day?'

The ice age ended 13,000 years ago when there was a massive extinction.

No. The flood and subsequent world changing events resulted in an ice age and that was more like 4500 years ago

No more saber tooth tigers, no more wholly mammoth. Woolly mammoths were massive herbivores, adapted to cold climates with thick fur and long tusks. They roamed in herds and were likely targeted by predators only when vulnerable

The world did change, requiring kinds to adapt.

Exactly, the first woman, not the first female.

Eve was female. She even had kids.

But no one seems to know the difference between a woman and a female.

God help those who think they do!

Just like there is a difference between a male and a man.

Since Adam was male that is not relevant to the discussion

Even the country singers who sing about being a woman, do not seem to get it to know the difference.

That is our problem?

One is an animal and the other is made in the image of God. This is why even Jesus referred to the Gentiles as dogs.

Just because animals also are female and male does not change the fact that He created Adam and Eve and all things

 

[Elijah7777]

I don't recall Him breathing life into Eve?

Not just Eve. We see in Genesis 7:22 Of all that was on dry land, everything that had the breath of life in its nostrils died. Only what Noah saved on the Ark survived.

 

[daddd]

Not just Eve. We see in Genesis 7:22 Of all that was on dry land, everything that had the breath of life in its nostrils died. Only what Noah saved on the Ark survived.

The point was that it says God breathed life into Adam. It did not mention that He then came down and breathed on Eve as well and every child she then had. The bigger point is that the man was created first, then from this man God did an operation and took a bone of some sort and created a woman. Evolution cannot reconcile with that.