Charismatic Bible Studies - 2 Peter 2:10-16

[Hidden In Him]

Excising Evil, Before Spiritual Blemishes Contaminate The Flock Of God



I have watched Gnostics on the Christian forums for years. I have seen them infiltrate sites and post all sorts of things, from how "evil" the God of the Old Testament was and how He treated poor Eve unfairly, to how Mary Magdalene was the sexual partner of Jesus, to how the Lord supposedly performed miracles through the use of sorcery. I've seen them post favorably about using witchcraft while yet professing to be "Christians." I have also seen them post sexually suggestive material and make inside jokes, all while the staffs of these forums were usually either too undermanned to notice or had no idea what they were actually seeing, thinking they were just dealing with misguided seekers. I will relate my own experiences with a woman who tried to covert me over to the darkness in the last section.

But the question is this: What should be done about Gnostics when they appear amongst believers? Some think the focus should be on trying to "save" them, but this is actually not what the Lord often prescribed. They posed a threat to the flock of God - indeed to the entire church if their presence was not eliminated - so they had to be dealt with, not simply toyed with.

Peter now referenced this, stating how the Gnostics were not true children of God but "accursed children," not true members of the flock but "blemishes" Satan was now using to contaminate it. They were showing up at the Christian feasts only to "carouse in the daytime," or in other words laze around and indulge themselves, and then look for women to seduce, possessing no fear of God whatever. As such, Peter now described them as little more than wild animals born to be captured and killed; blemished sheep who strayed from the Great Shepherd a long time ago to shepherd themselves instead.

12 But these, as irrational beasts of nature, having been born for capture and corruption, blaspheme what they know nothing of, and will utterly perish in their own corruption, 13 receiving the wages of unrighteousness as those who count it pleasure to carouse in the daytime. They are spots and blemishes, carousing in their own deceits while feasting among you, 14 having eyes preoccupied with an adulteress and incessant sin, enticing unstable souls, having a heart trained upon sexual covetousness. They are accursed children. 15 who have forsaken the right way and gone astray, following the way of Balaam, the son of Beor, who loved the wages of unrighteousness, 16 but was rebuked for his iniquity when a dumb ass, speaking with a man's voice, restrained the madness of the prophet. (2 Peter 2:13-16)

Peter's allusion to inter-breeding was not by accident. When possible, the Gnostics were engaging in sexual intercourse with the gullible, which allowed for the transference of demonic spirits and made their corrupting influence all that much stronger. But as Peter told them in his first letter, believers were to be living sacrifices acceptable unto God. Just as the High Priest had to be unblemished, so too could no blemished animal be offered on the altar of the Lord (Lev. 22:17–25; Deut. 15:21–23; 17:1). So by their very presence, the Gnostics posed a grave danger.

What then was the solution? To remove them from amongst the congregations of God before they corrupted them. Hence this is why the Lord told the church in Thyatira that death was coming to the Gnostic "prophetess" Jezebel unless she repented:

20 I have a few things against you, because you allow that woman Jezebel, who calls herself a prophetess, to teach and seduce My servants to commit sexual immorality and eat things sacrificed to idols. 21 And I gave her time to repent of her sexual immorality, and she did not repent. 22 Indeed I will cast her into a sickbed, and those who commit adultery with her into great tribulation, unless they repent of their deeds. 23 I will kill her children with death, and all the churches shall know that I am He who searches the minds and hearts. (Revelations 2:20-23)

To other churches in the Book of Revelation, Jesus referred to these teachings as "the doctrine of Balaam," and it is why Peter would likewise bring Balaam up in the present passage. The tactics Balaam told king Balak to use were the same as the Gnostics were using: Use sexual seduction to lure the faithful away from God over into the worship of demonic gods, to their destruction.

12“And to the angel of the church in Pergamos write, ‘These things says He who has the sharp two-edged sword... 14 "I have a few things against you, because you have there those who hold the doctrine of Balaam, who taught Balak to put a stumbling block before the children of Israel, to eat things sacrificed to idols and to commit sexual immorality."'" (Revelation 2:12-14)


The Story Of Balaam

According to Jewish tradition, Balaam wanted to receive financial rewards in exchange for cursing the Israelites, but when he was unable to do so, he instead gave advice to King Balak that if he sent the most beautiful women of his nation out to where the armies of Israel were, they could seduce them into sin and worshipping the gods of the Midianites, and in so doing the Lord would turn against them and destroy them Himself. The Biblical Antiquities of Pseudo-Philo spelled this out most plainly:

Balaam said unto Balak, "Come and let us advise what you shall do to [Israel]. Choose out the most comely women that are among you and that are in Midian and set them before them naked, adorned with gold and jewels. And when [the Israelite men] see them and lie with them, they will sin against their Lord and fall into your hands." (Psuedo-Philo, Liber Antiquitatum Biblicarum 18.13)

Scripture itself appears to verify this is indeed what took place, because Numbers 25 says many of the Israelite men "joined themselves to Baal-Peor," a euphemistic phrase for the act of engaging in ritual fornication to the god Baal, which then caused a great plague to occur amongst the people of God which killed over 24,000 Israelites.

1 Now Israel remained in Acacia Grove, and the people began to commit harlotry with the women of Moab. 2 They invited the people to the sacrifices of their gods, and the people ate and bowed down to their gods. 3 So Israel was joined to Baal of Peor, and the anger of the Lord was aroused against Israel. 4 Then the Lord said to Moses, "Take all the leaders of the people and hang the offenders before the Lord, out in the sun, that the fierce anger of the Lord may turn away from Israel." 5 So Moses said to the judges of Israel, "Every one of you kill his men who were joined to Baal of Peor"... 9 And those who died in the plague were twenty-four thousand. (Numbers 25:1-5, 9)

Later, when the armies of Israel finally overcame Midian and destroyed them, they returned to Moses and reported they had saved the women alive, suggesting there was still an emotional attachment to them:

1 And the Lord spoke to Moses, saying: 2 "Take vengeance on the Midianites for the children of Israel"... 7 And they warred against the Midianites, just as the Lord commanded Moses, and they killed all the males. 8 They killed the kings of Midian with the rest of those who were killed - Evi, Rekem, Zur, Hur, and Reba, the five kings of Midian. Balaam the son of Beor they also killed with the sword. 9 And the children of Israel took the women of Midian captive with their little ones, and took as spoil all their cattle, all their flocks, and all their goods... 14 But Moses was angry with the officers of the army, and with the captains over thousands and captains over hundreds, who had come from the battle. 15 And Moses said to them: "Have you kept all the women alive? 16 Look, through the counsel of Balaam, these women caused the children of Israel to trespass against the Lord in the incident of Peor, and there was a plague amongst the congregation of the Lord. 17 Now therefore, kill every male among the little ones, and kill every woman who has known a man intimately. 18 But keep alive for yourselves all the young girls who have not known a man intimately. (Numbers 31:1, 7-9, 14-18)

So what stopped the plague and appeased the Lord's anger? One man appeared to have the same heart as God, and was angered by what the enemy had done. Phineas knew who the leader of this spiritual rebellion against God was - a man named Zimri - for Zimri defiantly brought the Midianite princess Cozbi before all Israel, signifying their partnership publicly. So when the two went into their tent, Phineas entered and killed them both. This act pleased the Lord because Phineas understood Zimri was no longer a true Israelite but a spiritual threat to the entire nation.

 

[Hidden In Him]

6 And indeed, one of the children of Israel came and presented to his brethren a Midianite woman in the sight of Moses, and in the sight of all the congregation of the children of Israel, who were weeping at the door of the tabernacle of meeting. 7 Now when Phinehas the son of Eleazar, the son of Aaron the priest, saw it, he rose from among the congregation and took a javelin in his hand. 8 And he went after the man of Israel into the tent and thrust both of them through, the man of Israel, and the woman through her body. So the plague was stopped among the children of Israel. 9 And those who died in the plague were twenty-four thousand. 10 Then the Lord spoke to Moses, saying, 11 "Phinehas the son of Eleazar, the son of Aaron the priest, has turned back My wrath from the children of Israel, because he was zealous with My jealousy among them, so that I did not consume the children of Israel in My jealousy. 12 Therefore say, 'Behold, I give to him My covenant of peace, 13 and it shall be to him and his descendants after him a covenant of an everlasting priesthood, because he was jealous for his God, and made atonement for the children of Israel.' " 14 Now the name of the Israelite who was killed with the Midianite woman was Zimri the son of Salu, a leader of a father's house among the Simeonites. 15 And the name of the Midianite woman who was killed was Cozbi the daughter of Zur. He was head of the people of a father's house in Midian. (Numbers 25:6-15)

As the Numbers account states, Balaam himself was also killed, but if he had had any sense he could have seen it coming when he was still on his way to curse the Israelites for rich's sake. His own donkey saw the angel of the Lord standing in their path with a sword drawn to kill him, and yet like many Gnostics today Balaam couldn't see the danger he was in, and had no clue he was already marching headlong towards his death.


Contaminations Today

In the Parable of the Wheat and the Tares, Jesus prophesied that the Gnostics were coming, and that because they professed to be "Christians," on the outside they would look just like the real thing. But underneath they would be contaminating the harvest. The parable said they would be sown by the Devil himself, but that the situation would be complicated, in that destroying them could also destroy the wheat because genuine Christians were developing relationships with these people, and might be so offended by their deaths that they rejected God at seeing their friends destroyed. This is why the Lord is depicted in the parable as not wanting the angels to eliminate them altogether until the time of the harvest.

24 Another parable He put forth to them, saying: "The kingdom of heaven is like a man who sowed good seed in his field; 25but while men slept, his enemy came and sowed tares among the wheat and went his way. 26 But when the grain had sprouted and produced a crop, then the tares also appeared. 27 So the servants of the owner came and said to him, 'Sir, did you not sow good seed in your field? How then does it have tares?' 28 He said to them, 'An enemy has done this.' The servants said to him, 'Do you want us then to go and gather them up?' 29 But he said, 'No, lest while you gather up the tares you also uproot the wheat with them. 30 Let both grow together until the harvest, and at the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, "First gather together the tares and bind them in bundles to burn them, but gather the wheat into my barn."'" (Matthew 13:24-30)

The Gnostics are alive and well today, and as stated earlier I have watched them on the forums for many years doing the same things the Gnostics have always done; profess to be "Christians" while touting the powers of witchcraft and seeking to seduce true Christians away from the faith. I met a Gnostic woman when I first joined Christianforums.com eight years ago, and for a good while I did not even know she was Gnostic. At the time she seemed like she genuinely wanted to serve Christ, though her family was rooted in Native American occultism. I knew she had demons because she once showed me a sample of her backward writing (an occult technique). She said she had storage containers full of it somewhere, and when I read the writing foreword, it dealt with Gnostic themes, which means these were the doctrines her demons were seducing her with. I wanted to save her but it proved not to be the case. We kept bouncing off one another for several years, but the next time I saw her she appeared to have decided upon the darkness, and was openly trying to convince me to come to the other side. Then the day came when she and eight other Gnostic friends invading my home forum. This Christian forum (which I will not name) was understaffed at the time, so this group of nine Gnostics (one called himself "6 of 9") were getting away with all kinds of things, from posting about rain sticks they were creating (and Native American form of witchcraft to bring heavy rain, and it rained on my house for 30 straight days during this period), to posting about how evil the God of the Jews was, and how the Jews were a despicable and detestable people just like their God. They also posted occult illustrations in teaching their Gnostic heresies, including posting "the Devil" card from Aliester Crowley's Tarot deck to say that this was who the God of the Old Testament actually was.



They also flooded that Christian site with tons of secular and occult music, to the point that no one was even paying attention any more, and eventually posted sexual role play videos disguised as piano teaching lessons, with the words "sexual role play" included in the title.

I detested what was going on and gathered a small group of strong Christians on the forum and requested we begin posting so many praise and worship videos that it would drown them out, and also pray they be driven from the forum which they eventually were. But I still cared about this friend and wanted to see her saved, maybe foolishly like some of those in the Book of Revelation had. What happened? We interacted a few more times again over the next few years, but eventually the Lord informed me through a dream that she only had a few months to choose Christ or my time trying to save her would over. I warned her this was the case, and yet the time came and went. She never responded, and life moved on. She chose to run with another male occultist, and by doing so essentially sealed her fate. I certainly hope for the best for them, but I have received a couple dreams that he is eventually going to die. He has no concern for Christians and gets kicks from luring them away from the faith, some through witchcraft and some through gentle persuasion. This is why Jude said to be very careful around them. The Gnostics pose a threat, and that threat needs to be understood and accounted for. In some cases judgment must fall.

17 But you, beloved, remember the words which were spoken before by the apostles of our Lord Jesus Christ: 18 and how they told you that there would be mockers in the last time who would walk according to their own ungodly lusts. 19 These are soulish people who create divisions, not having the Spirit. 20 But you, beloved, building yourselves up upon your most holy faith, praying in the Holy Spirit, 21 keep yourselves in the love of God, looking for the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ unto eternal life. 22 And on some have compassion, making a distinction, 23 but others save with fear, pulling them out of the fire, hating even the garment defiled by the flesh. (Jude 1:17-23)


Questions & Applications

1. What came to mind in reading this study? (and permission to speak freely)

2. In 1 Corinthians 5, Paul advised them to excommunicate a young man who was having sex with his father's wife, and there is evidence that Gnostic influence was to blame in this letter. Would you do this to your own son if you had to, or to a brother or a close friend if the Spirit declared they might leaven the whole lump?

3. In Acts 5, Peter pronounced the judgment of death upon Ananias and Saphira? Would you speak this over someone if God told you to?

4. Had you been an Israelite, would you have done what Phineas did, and killed two people with your own hands if they were corrupting the body of Christ and seducing many into Hell?

5. As I will add in a companion thread, the Gnostics have been known to teach astral projection and practice it. But there has been a danger, in that Christians have occasionally been led of God to cut the silver cord which prevented them from returning to their physical bodies and killed them. This happened to Anton LaVey, leader and founder of the Church of Satan. I will include a supplemental piece on it, but for the last question: Would you do this as well if the Lord led you to?

 

[Hidden In Him]

Thread 'Deliverance, & The Death Of A Satanist High Priest'

Jun 13, 2025

Deliverance, & The Death Of A Satanist High Priest



Discovered this testimony fairly recently, and was astonished that I could go this long without knowing, but apparently the death of Anton LaVey was as the result of an extended encounter with a group of Christians who refused to give up on delivering a survivor out of his hands. Instead of murdering an innocent woman in tribute to Satan, LaVey met his own death and went on to his "reward" for serving the Devil.

Actual death records confirm this account, because whereas the Church of Satan tried to claim LaVey...

• Hidden In Him
• Replies: 0
• Forum: Pentecostalism

• 

 

[RandyK]

1. What came to mind in reading this study? (and permission to speak freely)

What came to mind was the revelation God gave me many years ago distinguishing between two kinds of people on earth. God didn't give me these names, but I chose to call them "children of God" and "children of Satan."

I really hate to say this because it is extremely offensive to some people--I just always have to tell the truth. And you brought this up in my mind.

God gave me the ability to see who they are--at least on most occasions. I've never seen anybody else, other than you, who has said things like this so similar to what I believe God showed me. I'm not trying to flatter you--you may not even agree with me. But this seems to be something God determined was important for us to note. And it is in the Scriptures.

I will take this even farther. I've been able to discern who will actually "get Saved." This may be even when they're deep in sin, and almost totally unlike someone who would remotely have interest in Christ. I would not, therefore, call them "children of Satan," as if everybody on earth begins as "children of Satan" before they get saved.

No, they are "children of Satan" only when God shows me that they have no interest in conversion at all--not ever. This is very serious stuff! But it is, I believe, very important because like those you call "Gnostics," these people play games, and can cause a lot of damage among God's People. And yes, sexual enticements can be a very big part of this!

2. In 1 Corinthians 5, Paul advised them to excommunicate a young man who was having sex with his father's wife, and there is evidence that Gnostic influence was to blame in this letter. Would you do this to your own son if you had to, or to a brother or a close friend?

I've been in churches where I was the only one, or perhaps sometimes with my wife, who confronted disturbances in clean Christian order in our church. Pastors and ushers and board members did not want to confront people unless those people personally offended them or somehow had nothing to give to the church.

It has been a shameful lack of nerves among Christian leaders who were afraid to look "unChristian." But they had no fear in trying to confront me for demanding proper order!

3. In Acts 5, Peter pronounced the judgment of death upon Ananias and Saphira? Would you speak this over someone if God told you to?

One of the pastors who confronted my family for upsetting the "apple cart" I unwittingly pronounced a curse on, perhaps by God's will. An older woman in the congregation had a brother--an elderly man, who in some way violated my young daughter--an early teen. The woman, a long-term Christian, attended a meeting with the board to defend her brother and accused my daughter of lying.

The police had already determined that my daughter had been truthful, but the board unanymously determined my wife and I were just creating illicit issues and making unfounded charges. They agreed my daughter had probably been lying. I defiantly told that pastor that his term at our church would be short.

Not too long after that our church unanymously voted that pastor for a permanent term as pastor at our church. But within a short time the pastor one Sunday announced his retirement. He said he and his wife both had developed serious medical issues. His wife is now dead, and he lives alone.

4. Had you been an Israelite, would you have done what Phineas did, and killed two people with your own hands?

I will do whatever pleases the Lord, if He gives me the burning zeal Phineas did. I've long told this story to other believers, to show the great need for the Church to be more demanding in our holy behavior. I'm not talking "legalism" here--just moral purity.

5. As I will add in a companion thread, the Gnostics have been known to teach astral projection and practice it. But there has been a danger, in that Christians have occasionally been led of God to cut the silver cord which prevented them from returning to their physical bodies and killed them. This happened to Anton LaVey, leader and founder of the Church of Satan. I will include a supplemental piece on it, but for the last question: Would you do this as well if the Lord led you to?

I had a friend here at my church who proudly claimed he directly confronted LaVey. I thought, "Why be proud of confronting a Satanist?"

This friend got all wrapped up in wanting to know about what he thought were ancient hidden truths (Gnostic literature?), and he tried to share these things with me. One day at a Bible Study he began to proclaim that the Apostle Paul was wrong. I told him to not let the door hit him on the way out! I felt bad, because I knew his family for some time. Some of his family were pretty committed Christians.

But the guy died, and his family has had all kinds of problems. Some of the family members are still hanging in there--just barely. Well, this is difficult stuff indeed!

 

[Hidden In Him]

What came to mind was the revelation God gave me many years ago distinguishing between two kinds of people on earth. God didn't give me these names, but I chose to call them "children of God" and "children of Satan."

I really hate to say this because it is extremely offensive to some people--I just always have to tell the truth. And you brought this up in my mind.

God gave me the ability to see who they are--at least on most occasions. I've never seen anybody else, other than you, who has said things like this so similar to what I believe God showed me. I'm not trying to flatter you--you may not even agree with me. But this seems to be something God determined was important for us to note. And it is in the Scriptures.

I will take this even farther. I've been able to discern who will actually "get Saved." This may be even when they're deep in sin, and almost totally unlike someone who would remotely have interest in Christ. I would not, therefore, call them "children of Satan," as if everybody on earth begins as "children of Satan" before they get saved.

No, they are "children of Satan" only when God shows me that they have no interest in conversion at all--not ever. This is very serious stuff! But it is, I believe, very important because like those you call "Gnostics," these people play games, and can cause a lot of damage among God's People. And yes, sexual enticements can be a very big part of this!

That's really interesting, Randy. I've seen some people argue that the only gifts Christians can have are those mentioned in the Bible and blah, blah, blah. I find that a very limiting way to view God, and a presumption that all there is to know about Him was contained in 66 books. But I would think it would be a tremendous time saver if it were real. How many Christians have wasted years praying for someone who never intended to come to Christ? It's not to say we should dismiss people easily, but I think the Spirit can sense things and tell you when someone is not remotely interested in God.

This is why being led of the Spirit is important. Did the Lord send the apostles aimlessly just anywhere, or did He send them to those who would be the most receptive? Acts 16:6-10 says the latter, and I think all of us need to be open to the Spirit like that in one form or another.

Gonna take your response piecemeal as always, so I can get the most out of it. I'm led when it comes to that as well. No sense rushing what can be a greater blessing when I take my time.

 

[RandyK]

That's really interesting, Randy. I've seen some people argue that the only gifts Christians can have are those mentioned in the Bible and blah, blah, blah. I find that a very limiting way to view God, and a presumption that all there is to know about Him was contained in 66 books. But I would think it would be a tremendous time saver if it were real. How many Christians have wasted years praying for someone who never intended to come to Christ? It's not to say we should dismiss people easily, but I think the Spirit can sense things and tell you when someone is not remotely interested in God.

This is why being led of the Spirit is important. Did the Lord send the apostles aimlessly just anywhere, or did He send them to those who would be the most receptive? Acts 16:6-10 says the latter, and I think all of us need to be open to the Spirit like that in one form or another.

Gonna take your response piecemeal as always, so I can get the most out of it. I'm led when it comes to that as well. No sense rushing what can be a greater blessing when I take my time.

And it's not like I favor those who I think will get saved either. I'm to do good to all, and strive to bring the word of salvation to all, even if I discern that they will only take part of the message to heart. Their taking only part of the message will do good for them, for their family, and for everybody in society.

I just am cautious because people can be back-stabbers, or they can take the things of God and then trample them later. One has to keenly observe what is being accepted and what isn't.

None of this is ever meant to pre-determine the destiny of individuals. It's just insight into how I believe God sees them. Yes, it's a weird gift of the Spirit. I cannot deny it, since it's been accurate 100% of the time, and I've exercised this ability to see for many years.

Those who are fake Christians, or nominal Christians who really accept "religion" but not Christ I call "goats." Those who are receptive to Christ's fellowship, or will be one day, I call "sheep." It is as plain as the nose on my face in many instances and help me to avoid the kinds of issues you're talking about.

Some Christians just "slam" unbelievers with the Gospel with little discernment. Do that to the wrong person, and you're going to get beat up, and probably deserve it. We have to know who is really receptive, and to what degree.

I've had relatives who were what I call "goats." For years I was frustrated that they seemed "Christian" and yet disinterested in "talking about the Lord." After Sunday they wanted to go back to their worldly acquaintances. God straightened me out.

I now know that some people just have no interest in Christ. They may be interested in things that surround him, the philosophy, the idealism, the socialization, the music, etc., but loving Christ personally is at the heart of salvation, and always will be. Anything short of this will be aborted.

 

[hawkman]

2. In 1 Corinthians 5, Paul advised them to excommunicate a young man who was having sex with his father's wife, and there is evidence that Gnostic influence was to blame in this letter. Would you do this to your own son if you had to, or to a brother or a close friend if the Spirit declared they might leaven the whole lump?

3. In Acts 5, Peter pronounced the judgment of death upon Ananias and Saphira? Would you speak this over someone if God told you to?

4. Had you been an Israelite, would you have done what Phineas did, and killed two people with your own hands if they were corrupting the body of Christ and seducing many into Hell?

5. As I will add in a companion thread, the Gnostics have been known to teach astral projection and practice it. But there has been a danger, in that Christians have occasionally been led of God to cut the silver cord which prevented them from returning to their physical bodies and killed them. This happened to Anton LaVey, leader and founder of the Church of Satan. I will include a supplemental piece on it, but for the last question: Would you do this as well if the Lord led you to?

I think about Joshua in the Old Testament , he was sold out and all in on doing God's will .
Joshua 24:15
And if it seem evil unto you to serve the LORD, choose you this day whom ye will serve; whether the gods which your fathers served that were on the other side of the flood, or the gods of the Amorites, in whose land ye dwell: but as for me and my house, we will serve the LORD.

Should we do any less ? If God has the assignment for us who can be against us . Here I am Lord send me , this is how we should live the Christian Life . There are times when the mercy is past and the time for Judgement is here , if God needs me to be that warrior then I must be ready .

 

[Hidden In Him]

I've been in churches where I was the only one, or perhaps sometimes with my wife, who confronted disturbances in clean Christian order in our church. Pastors and ushers and board members did not want to confront people unless those people personally offended them or somehow had nothing to give to the church.

It has been a shameful lack of nerves among Christian leaders who were afraid to look "unChristian." But they had no fear in trying to confront me for demanding proper order!

Yeah. Isn't that the way it is sometimes. The one they confront is the one person they should be listening to. But it's hard to take rebukes from another human being, because the whole time our inner man knows "This person is a sinner saved by grace just like I am. Who does he think he is?" But that's not it. They fail to understand that the Lord can speak through believers, and when that happens they are no longer receiving it from a man but from the Lord, and when they reject it they are rejecting Him. I've been proven wrong a few times here and there, like with interpretations that I realized were more accurate than my own because I didn't take the time to actually pray and seek God but just assumed things. Or at times when someone gave me a word and it didn't paint me in a very good light. But if you are humble you receive it, even if it's painful. But those not ready to do that are in their own way. I knew a pastor once - a Charismatic man with gifts - but he was controlling. Several people who got close to him tried to tell him he was following the wrong path. He ignored them and often shamed them. I know who he is because I've seen how self-serving he can be, and he will regret those decisions in eternity. He may make it, but a lot of his works are going to get burned up, because he didn't listen when he had the chance.

 

[Hidden In Him]

Joshua 24:15
And if it seem evil unto you to serve the LORD, choose you this day whom ye will serve; whether the gods which your fathers served that were on the other side of the flood, or the gods of the Amorites, in whose land ye dwell: but as for me and my house, we will serve the LORD.

The verse on "Any man who loves father or mother more than Me is not worthy of Me" comes to mind, too. There has to be a greater love for the Lord than for family and friends, or we can have our faith undermined and hindered by those we have elevated to a place greater than God.

 

[RandyK]

I think about Joshua in the Old Testament , he was sold out and all in on doing God's will .
Joshua 24:15
And if it seem evil unto you to serve the LORD, choose you this day whom ye will serve; whether the gods which your fathers served that were on the other side of the flood, or the gods of the Amorites, in whose land ye dwell: but as for me and my house, we will serve the LORD.

Should we do any less ? If God has the assignment for us who can be against us . Here I am Lord send me , this is how we should live the Christian Life . There are times when the mercy is past and the time for Judgement is here , if God needs me to be that warrior then I must be ready .

Amen, the key words here are "sold out." Early in my Christian life I read the OT and noticed a distinct pattern that determined how much God loved someone or not. He looked to check their loyalty to Him, combined with his love. It wasn't enough to just kill God's enemies--they had to show a David-like heart for God's wisdom, compassion, and love. There had to be discretion in passing judgment in favor of God.

So, as I read through the OT Scriptures I saw Phinehas, like HIH mentioned--not afraid to kill publicly, as unpopular as such an action might provoke. God chose the Levites because they would not compromise, even when the nation went in the other direction.

Over and over again, God showed favor to those who had the courage to fight for God--David in meeting Goliath, David's Mighty Men. But when you read the opening chapters of Deuteronomy, what really stuck out was God's major concern with loyalty to Him as God, as opposed to the worship of other gods--pagan gods who would lead men to disobey the word of the Lord in their hearts.

God wanted absolute loyalty--not political pluralism as we have today--not religious pluralism as our democracies accept. God wants absolute commitment to His theocracy, to His religion, to His authority. That authority overrides all else.

May the Lord put within our hearts a spark--a fever to want to love God with all our strength, with all our heart, with all that is within us. Only this white-hot love will do in these last days, in order to avoid the pull of temptation and compromise. We dare not compromise even for family, friends, church, and state. We find our love for all else *after* we love Him!

 

[Hidden In Him]

One of the pastors who confronted my family for upsetting the "apple cart" I unwittingly pronounced a curse on, perhaps by God's will. An older woman in the congregation had a brother--an elderly man, who in some way violated my young daughter--an early teen. The woman, a long-term Christian, attended a meeting with the board to defend her brother and accused my daughter of lying.

The police had already determined that my daughter had been truthful, but the board unanymously determined my wife and I were just creating illicit issues and making unfounded charges. They agreed my daughter had probably been lying. I defiantly told that pastor that his term at our church would be short.

Not too long after that our church unanymously voted that pastor for a permanent term as pastor at our church. But within a short time the pastor one Sunday announced his retirement. He said he and his wife both had developed serious medical issues. His wife is now dead, and he lives alone.

Pastoring can be tough, Randy, and not everyone is cut out for how to handle the responsibilities involved. I'm currently trying to play mediator in a situation and I'm not doing anything until I know from God what the right decisions are. But I act on my own initiative and no one else's, and that's the problem for many pastors. They have a board they are answerable to, and government by democracy doesn't always work. Sometimes the pastor can know the right thing to do, but because he cannot or will not override the majority he lets them make the decisions.

Then again, he could have been the one who was primarily or entirely in the wrong, so who knows. I know that no one would be able to place a curse on me and make it stick. But that may not be the case for people who act very irresponsibly, or worse yet downright wickedly just to save their jobs or their "ministries."

 

[RandyK]

Pastoring can be tough, Randy, and not everyone is cut out for how to handle the responsibilities involved. I'm currently trying to play mediator in a situation and I'm not doing anything until I know from God what the right decisions are. But I act on my own initiative and no one else's, and that's the problem for many pastors. They have a board they are answerable to, and government by democracy doesn't always work. Sometimes the pastor can know the right thing to do, but because he cannot or will not override the majority he lets them make the decisions.

Then again, he could have been the one who was primarily or entirely in the wrong, so who knows. I know that no one would be able to place a curse on me and make it stick. But that may not be the case for people who act very irresponsibly, or worse yet downright wickedly just to save their jobs or their "ministries."

To be clear, I was not declaring a "witch's curse" on the pastor. Rather, I think I had unwittingly prophesied something that I felt from the heart, and something that God apparently agreed with. I cannot speak for God. This is just what happened. I'm not quick to curse anybody, but there are times when my declared feeling towards evil is, I think, tantamount to a "curse."

This is not the 1st person in our church who attempted to violate, or did violate, my daughter. Each time there was hesitancy to deal with a very real situation, and saw an attempt to cover it up or marginalize it. I have no fear in declaring God's judgment against a church pastor or board who defends perverts, particularly when my daughter is the victim.

You or I could come under a curse from God, and confirmed by prophets, if we engage in despicable, protracted behavior. God even gave Jezebel time to repent after she had engaged in immoral behavior, corrupting the church.

Israel was cursed by God on Mt. Ebal. We should not fear curses when we reside in the love and grace and patience of the Lord Jesus, who we both serve with our heart, soul, mind, and strength.

May the Lord give you wisdom as you decide some difficult issues. We are not perfect, but God hears our prayers, knows our weaknesses, and is standing with us as we seek His advice and guidance.

 

[JLB]

In the Parable of the Wheat and the Tares, Jesus prophesied that the Gnostics were coming, and that because they professed to be "Christians," on the outside they would look just like the real thing. But underneath they would be contaminating the harvest. The parable said they would be sown by the Devil himself, but that the situation would be complicated, in that destroying them could also destroy the wheat because genuine Christians were developing relationships with these people, and might be so offended by their deaths that they rejected God at seeing their friends destroyed. This is why the Lord is depicted in the parable as not wanting the angels to eliminate them altogether until the time of the harvest.

Another parable He put forth to them, saying: “The kingdom of heaven is like a man who sowed good seed in his field; but while men slept, his enemy came and sowed tares among the wheat and went his way. But when the grain had sprouted and produced a crop, then the tares also appeared. Matthew 13:24-26

A tare (weed) looks just like the wheat when growing.

The only way to tell the difference is when harvest time comes, and the wheat produced grain and the tares don’t.

That is how the tares “appeared”.

No grain at harvest time.

I say harvest time because some of the wheat doesn’t produce grain until late in the season. Some refer to this as late bloomers.

The harvesters we instructed not to uproot any of the “tares” until harvest time because they may inadvertently pull up wheat that would be sprouting grain late in the season.

If anyone has ever smoked marijuana you know the male plants only have leaves, and no bud. This is the best illustration about the wheat and tares.

The male marijuana plant will never produce buds, only leaves but look exactly like the female plants when growing and are only distinguishable when it’s time to harvest.


To put it in bible terms the tares will never reproduce the seed.

 

[Hidden In Him]

Another parable He put forth to them, saying: “The kingdom of heaven is like a man who sowed good seed in his field; but while men slept, his enemy came and sowed tares among the wheat and went his way. But when the grain had sprouted and produced a crop, then the tares also appeared. Matthew 13:24-26

A tare (weed) looks just like the wheat when growing.

The only way to tell the difference is when harvest time comes, and the wheat produced grain and the tares don’t.

That is how the tares “appeared”.

No grain at harvest time.

I say harvest time because some of the wheat doesn’t produce grain until late in the season. Some refer to this as late bloomers.

The harvesters we instructed not to uproot any of the “tares” until harvest time because they may inadvertently pull up wheat that would be sprouting grain late in the season.

If anyone has ever smoked marijuana you know the male plants only have leaves, and no bud. This is the best illustration about the wheat and tares.

The male marijuana plant will never produce buds, only leaves but look exactly like the female plants when growing and are only distinguishable when it’s time to harvest.


To put it in bible terms the tares will never reproduce the seed.

Interesting analogy. I agree somewhat and disagree somewhat, in that the workers knew there were tares in the field even before the Lord told them to wait until the harvest had come. In the real life application, we too need to tell the difference between the spiritual wheat and the spiritual tares, though I'm sure that's not something you argue with. The part where I agree is about plucking everything up by the roots and sentencing everyone to their appropriate judgment. It's the execution of judgment that seems severe to some, and would threaten the harvest if were done prematurely.

 

[JLB]

the workers knew there were tares in the field even before the Lord told them to wait until the harvest had come.

so far I am just describing what wheat and tares are. This is still in the parabolic stage of the teaching.

I am just making some points about the nature of the wheat and tares.

Notice the concern is not about uprooting tares, but accidentally uprooting wheat.

 

[JLB]

In the real life application, we too need to tell the difference between the spiritual wheat and the spiritual tares,

Don’t they tares and wheat represent people?

Do you agree this involves the time of the end of the age, and the type of people that will be alive at that time?

Also notice this phrase…

First gather together the tares and bind them in bundles to burn them…

Now that the wheat is clearly recognizable they can gather the tares without uprooting the wheat.

In other words it’s not about their root system being entangled together, it’s about waiting until all the wheat is clearly identified.

 

[RandyK]

Interesting analogy. I agree somewhat and disagree somewhat, in that the workers knew there were tares in the field even before the Lord told them to wait until the harvest had come. In the real life application, we too need to tell the difference between the spiritual wheat and the spiritual tares, though I'm sure that's not something you argue with. The part where I agree is about plucking everything up by the roots and sentencing everyone to their appropriate judgment. It's the execution of judgment that seems severe to some, and would threaten the harvest if were done prematurely.

Interesting! So, the real danger is in pulling up what you know are tares may unsettle some who have yet to produce, but will produce if given enough time?

That would make sense to me because some people are weak and rely upon relatives or friends who are non-Christians. They will eventually have to learn to rely on Christ, and not on "the world."

But until they are strong enough they depend on professionals in the world, and depend on the advice of workers in the world who are not really inspired, but who are able to do a good job. They need to be weaned off of this support, but require time to stand on their own two feet and need to learn to trust in the Lord.

If we just start ripping up all that a person is depending on for the moment, they will surely become unsettled and perhaps lose faith in even the agents God wants to use to help them? We need to afford people time to acclimate themselves to the Kingdom once they have entered in. Is that what you mean?

 

[Hidden In Him]

In other words it’s not about their root system being entangled together, it’s about waiting until all the wheat is clearly identified.

We'd have to agree to disagree on that one, JLB. I think it's precisely because they would potentially uproot the wheat that the Lord does tell them wait until harvest time to do so. That seems to be the implication in the parable. Granted, this is from AI, but they gathered it from somewhere. In answer to "Can you destroy wheat by pulling up tares?"

AI Overview

Yes, pulling up tares can actually destroy or damage the wheat crop growing alongside them. This is because tares, which are weeds that closely resemble wheat in their early stages, have entangled roots with the wheat. Therefore, attempting to remove the tares by pulling them up would inevitably uproot or damage the roots of the nearby wheat plants.

Interesting! So, the real danger is in pulling up what you know are tares may unsettle some who have yet to produce, but will produce if given enough time?

That would make sense to me because some people are weak and rely upon relatives or friends who are non-Christians. They will eventually have to learn to rely on Christ, and not on "the world."

But until they are strong enough they depend on professionals in the world, and depend on the advice of workers in the world who are not really inspired, but who are able to do a good job. They need to be weaned off of this support, but require time to stand on their own two feet and need to learn to trust in the Lord.

If we just start ripping up all that a person is depending on for the moment, they will surely become unsettled and perhaps lose faith in even the agents God wants to use to help them? We need to afford people time to acclimate themselves to the Kingdom once they have entered in. Is that what you mean?

Yes it is Randy, and sorry for the late reply. Family especially can be a big pull, which is why I asked about what one do if it was their son who was excommunicated. What if the Lord Himself said a relative was going to die, or her children die? (such as was the case with Jezebel). It can be a very tough pill to swallow for some, which I think is why the Lord appears so patient in the passage. Even though she was leading believers in that church to damnation, He nevertheless said, "And I gave her time to repent of her sexual immorality, but she did not repent." There appears to have been a concerted effort on His part to give her every chance in the world, and avoid coming off looking like a tyrant, but something eventually had to be done.

 

[JLB]

I think it's precisely because they would potentially uproot the wheat that the Lord does tell them wait until harvest time to do so.

I agree. They were instructed to wait until harvest time when the tares appeared, and it was clear which ones were tares and which ones were wheat.

At least we can agree on this much.

I am interested in learning more about modern day gnostics and Gnosticism.

I haven’t studied that much.


What doctrines do they teach?

 

[JLB]

AI Overview

Yes, pulling up tares can actually destroy or damage the wheat crop growing alongside them. This is because tares, which are weeds that closely resemble wheat in their early stages, have entangled roots with the wheat. Therefore, attempting to remove the tares by pulling them up would inevitably uproot or damage the roots of the nearby wheat plants.

Yes. I see this and seems very practical.


Which is why I posted this part of the parable.

First gather together the tares and bind them in bundles to burn them…

Notice that they now recognized clearly which ones were tares and gathered them into bundles and did not damage any of the wheat, which are living people.