Join Hidden in Him and For His Glory for discussions on how
https://christianforums.net/threads/become-a-vessel-of-honor-part-2.112306/
Yes, but words mean what they mean in context. In one sense we may say that all people are God's children. In the Christian sense, we are guilty of sin and walking a path that leads to destruction, unless we are converted and become children of God spiritually. That is the path that leads to eternal fellowship with God and with each other.
God is Creator and only true believers are his children. Please, do yourself a huge favour and learn how to understand and interpret Scripture yourself.
'conversion' doesn't rid us of our sin
So based on YOUR interpretation of scripture, you're telling me to interpret Scripture 'for myself'. But what if my interpretation is different from yours? Is it wrong? Is yours wrong? Who's interpretation of scripture is therefore valid?
That is exactly why a couple of us mentioned that it was true only in the vaguest of context. When the Bible speaks about the children of God it is talking about either Hebrews or Christians.
Yes. Nowhere in the Bible is it said that all humans are God's children. I've actually only heard that argument from progressives. The only ones referred to as God's children, as onlysaved has stated, are those whom God has chosen--Jews and Christians. And, while the OT speaks of Jews in a sense as the children of God, the NT makes it clear that it is only those who are truly saved that are God's children.
In this case, yes, yours would be wrong.
And here it is--the purpose of this thread. This is just another of your trolling threads to show that Protestants are wrong and the Orthodox Church is the only true church, correct?
Conversion properly mitigates our sin in a way that satisfies God for the present era.
who says
Eastern Orthodox theology, not all people are considered God's children in the fullest, spiritual sense, though all are created in God's image and beloved by Him.
Exactly. Which is why we shouldn't trust our own opinion.
Right. Based on an objective standard, which I obey, but you don't. You trust your opinion. I trust the Church. So the Church can say I am wrong. Who will tell you that you are wrong?
You don't find it interesting that I was actually right and you were not, based solely on "my" interpretation?
No, you shouldn't trust your opinion because you have, apparently, never learned to properly understand and interpret Scripture. Shouldn't we all try to be good Bereans?
There is only one objective standard--Scripture, not the Church. Their understanding is still subjective. Who told Peter he was wrong, the Church? No, Paul. We all "see in a mirror dimly" (1 Cor. 13:12), including all leaders of all churches (and Churches). No person is infallible.
GOD..
Because it's likely not your interpretation. I've made this point before. I find it hard to believe you've read the Bible in a complete vacuum completely abstract of any context provided by the Church. I was wrong in my opinion because I referred to my own interpretation of scripture. You echoed a fact that established by the Church.
Right. Which is why I should leave it the experts in the matter; the Church. I've only recently started reading the NT in its original language. Which language do you read the Bible in out of curiosity?
Yet people disagree on how Scripture is interpreted. The only reason we've came to an agreement about what it actually means is because the Church has taken an objective position. It's contradictory to say "interpret Scripture for yourself" and to also say "no but your interpretation is wrong and mine is right".
Right, which is why I can't trust your opinion. Because that's all it is...an opinion. And the Church isn't a group of people or something; it's Christ's mouthpiece on Earth.
And if you said 2+2=4 you'd be in agreement with the laws of mathematics
Okay great, what are these rules and who's established them?Right. So why not...I dunno...refer to the Church that Jesus Himself founded and entrusted to his Apostles and their successors? Just an idea...
Who says bro?
It is "my" interpretation in that I applied common sense reasoning to what the Bible says regarding the issue. Besides, I don't think I've ever read anything theological by the EOC, certainly nothing "official."
You were wrong because you lack a basic understanding of how to properly understand and interpret Scripture. I was right because I do have a basic understanding of those things.
And? That is what a knowledge of proper biblical interpretation and using basic reasoning can lead to.
No, it's why it's incumbent on you to learn how to properly understand and interpret Scripture. Again, we should follow the example of the Bereans, should we not? If we are to make sure those teaching are teaching truth from Scripture, how can we do that if we don't know how to interpret and understand for ourselves?
I read it in English.
Yes, that is the nature of it.
It's generally a majority that agrees with a certain position, whether or not they are part of the EOC (most believers are not in the EOC). The Church (all true believers) is fallible, therefore, so are all its leaders and all lay people. The Bible is the only objective standard. At least Paul was humble and truthful enough to admit that he saw "in a mirror dimly," even though he still called out Peter for being wrong.
No, not necessarily. In many cases, it's a matter not of who is absolutely wrong and who is absolutely right, but who is most likely wrong and who is most likely right. Some things in Scripture are very clear, some things are very unclear, and some things land in between somewhere.
If you can't trust my opinion, which happens to agree with the EOC, then you can't trust the EOC either. The Church is a group of people, by definition. It consists of all true believers, everywhere, regardless of tradition or denomination. One of its functions is to make Christ and his teachings known.
False analogy, but okay.And if you said 2+2=4 you'd be in agreement with the laws of mathematics
No idea, but likely many theologians over the centuries. And as I said, "generally accepted rules." There is still going to be some disagreement as to exactly what rules and how to apply them.
Because they've gotten things wrong, drastically wrong, hence the need for the Reformation. Because all people are fallible, even the Apostles (remember Paul rebuking Peter for his sin?). Besides, all true believers are the Church, which is vastly larger than the EOC (which contains many unbelievers, just like the CC and all Protestant denominations).
It's implied in the NT, since we are called to live in community as the family of God, not as individuals.
The EOC are the original Church. I bet you believe in the Trinity too. When do you celebrate Christmas btw?
Right. Which is why I allow the Church to correct me.
...or you're just echoing Tradition. You believe in the Trinity too, right?
Who says?
Who says how we should interpret it 'properly'? The Bible doesn't come with interpretation instructions.
Opinion being the operative word. I entirely trust the EOC. Not personal opinion.
No, it's simple. Defer to the Church. Remarkable that you think you know how to interpret Scripture better than the people who were literally mentioned in it.
But the Church that wrote the NT in Koine Greek (a language I can read but you can't) is wrong?
No. Not when you have the Church to tell you exactly what it means.
So...the Church. Bruh.
Name ONE thing.
Why the heck should I trust a single word out of your mouth then? "Don't trust the Church, they're infallible...but you can totally trust me, bro"
Invisible Church? Yes. Visible Church (the authority to which we should defer)? No.
To the best of your ability the Bible should not be interpreted at all.Because it's likely not your interpretation. I've made this point before. I find it hard to believe you've read the Bible in a complete vacuum completely abstract of any context provided by the Church. I was wrong in my opinion because I referred to my own interpretation of scripture. You echoed a fact that established by the Church.
Right. Which is why I should leave it the experts in the matter; the Church. I've only recently started reading the NT in its original language. Which language do you read the Bible in out of curiosity?
Yet people disagree on how Scripture is interpreted. The only reason we've came to an agreement about what it actually means is because the Church has taken an objective position. It's contradictory to say "interpret Scripture for yourself" and to also say "no but your interpretation is wrong and mine is right".
Right, which is why I can't trust your opinion. Because that's all it is...an opinion. And the Church isn't a group of people or something; it's Christ's mouthpiece on Earth.
And if you said 2+2=4 you'd be in agreement with the laws of mathematics
Right. So why not...I dunno...refer to the Church that Jesus Himself founded and entrusted to his Apostles and their successors? Just an idea...
Who says bro?
So Greek speakers should learn English now should they? You're saying that English is better than the original Greek?
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