We are at the end, Iran and Israel war.

[miamited]

Morning reddogs

I will admit that I haven't been keeping up with the matter too terribly much. Personally, I don't understand how one nation can force another nation to do something except by war or financial costs or incentives, but,,,

What is the argument to be made that the nation with the largest nuclear stockpile, and the only nation to ever use such weapons, has some 'right' to tell another nation that they can't have such weapons? That just rings so very hypocritical to me. I say, we either get rid of them all or we allow them all. I mean, no one seems to consider that all these other nations want what we have because they know that we're not above using them. Why does Pakistan get to have a nuclear weapons program and no one complains at all? Why does India get to have a nuclear weapons program and no one complains? China? Russia? France? Great Britain and even N. Korea?

Why does Pakistan want nuclear weapons? Or China or France, et.al.? Because they want to have like for like weaponry to fight against the same weaponry should there be an all out war. If I were an Iranian military official, that would be my argument. That they want and should be allowed nuclear weapons surely as much as N. Korea. Just like the United States must have the greatest nuclear weapons threat. And now, the United States has come to some place where it is the intention of the United States to make every nation on the planet pay us to do business with us, Personally, I believe none of that is really right. We're all human beings and whatever one group of human beings has or can do, every other group of human beings should have the same rights and opportunities.

But here in the United States, especially, we're really becoming the nation that wants to rule the world. Maybe that't the one world government that some christians think is going to come. As I've written before, I believe that when we get to the end of all of these days, we're going to find that the nation of the United States was the Beast that came up out of the sea.

Now, before some say that I'm some unpatriotic man to believe such a thing about my own nation, I'm just reading the Scriptures and looking at the world as it stands right now, and seeing that there is one Beast, which the Scriptures use to define nations, that everyone is following after and filled with a people from all over the world, hence the sea. One nation that all the other nations definitely consider strongly they shouldn't go to war with. Right now, as the world geopolitical position looks like, the United States is the only Beast to fill that bill. I like living in the U.S. and I enjoy my life here, but I'm not blind.

Of course, maybe I'm wrong, but I don't see any other nation rising up to fit that description anytime within the next 100 years, at least. And I firmly believe that just as in Daniel's prophetic writings, beasts are God's way of describing nations.

 

[Fish153]

Hey reddogs

Well, actually what I'm reading is what 'everyone thinks' they might be doing. My research says that they've never tried to enrich uranium more than 60% which is the safe level that the previous agreement set. That's what I'm reading. Could you link me to your research showing that isn't the truth?

miamited---

What you have to remember is that Iran calls Israel and the USA "SATAN". They have also publicly announced MANY times that they want to destroy Israel and push them into the sea. They are dead serious about their threats. Should one "wait" until you are absolutely sure they have a weapon, or are making one---or do you destroy any processes in place where they COULD manufacture that weapon? I think Trump did the right thing. Iran had already killed many Americans and Israelis in the past. They have shown that they are serious in their intent. I don't think it's what "everyone thinks" they might be doing. I think it's that "everyone knows" what they are doing now---or plan to do in the very near future.

 

[miamited]

miamited---

What you have to remember is that Iran calls Israel and the USA "SATAN". They have also publicly announced MANY times that they want to destroy Israel and push them into the sea. They are dead serious about their threats. Should one "wait" until you are absolutely sure they have a weapon, or are making one---or do you destroy any processes in place where they COULD manufacture that weapon? I think Trump did the right thing. Iran had already killed many Americans and Israelis in the past. They have shown that they are serious in their intent. I don't think it's what "everyone thinks" they might be doing. I think it's that "everyone knows" what they are doing now---or plan to do in the very near future.

Hi Fish153

Yes, I know how the United States is seen by many, many, many of the muslim nations and their people. It's not just Iran that thinks of us as a satanic nation. Muslim theology refers to all those who are unbelievers in their god as worthy of death at their hands.

Surah 9:5: "Then kill the disbelievers (non-Muslims) wherever you find them, capture them and besiege them, and lie in wait for them in each and every ambush …".

So, calling us satanic isn't a big stretch. Much like our faith tells us that unbelievers, certainly among Israel as 'children of their father, Satan'. So, I don't get too worked up that the faith of Islam calls those who are not a part of Islam as children of their father, Satan. And a pretty solid argument could be made, even among christians, that most Americans are unbelievers and, therefore, children of Satan.

Should one "wait" until you are absolutely sure they have a weapon, or are making one---or do you destroy any processes in place where they COULD manufacture that weapon?

Sure, but my question is what gives one nation the right or authority to tell another nation that they can't have what we have? I mean, take just a minute and put yourself in the shoes of a muslim. They have watched the U.S. fight wars all over the globe. They have seen the U,S, drop deadly nuclear weapons on another nation in an indescriminate act of killing the citizens of entire cities. Honestly, the World Trade Center destruction pales in the face of our murderous destruction of two Japanese cities. Yes, we assuage our sensibilities by claiming that we were at war with Japan, but muslims are taught by their own religion that they are at war with unbelievers.

So, I get it that many muslims see us and refer to us as the 'great Satan', and there are events in our history that would support such an understanding. I mean we currently have a leader who, when his mouth is open is lying. Don't our own Scriptures tell us that it is Satan who is the father of lies?

But this matter isn't about religion as far as I'm concerned. It is about one nation that has a plethora of nuclear weapons, and has used those weapons, telling another nation that they can't have the same thing that not only we have, but many, many other nations. What gives us that authority. It's fear and pride. Both worthy attributes of those whose father is Satan.

What if Russia or Japan, especially Japan, thought as you seem to, that they should destroy us or bomb the U.S. because we are building and stockpiling nuclear weapons. But of course, we are the nation that no one can make war against. Does that make it fair for us to control the activities of other nations within their borders? Further, we had a plan in place that allowed us to monitor their nuclear activity and some idiot broke it.

 

[miamited]

So Fish153 my position is that Iran shouldn't have nuclear weapons. But that same position tells me that the U.S. shouldn't, therefore, have nuclear weapons either. And those people just want to have the means to protect themselves from the weapons that many other nations have. Basic war study says that the nation with the strongest weaponry generally wins. After all, that's what made Japan bow the knee, right? They couldn't stand against our nuclear attack on their nation, I imagine that's pretty much exactly how Iranians feel. And since they aren't friendly with Israeli, a nation with nuclear weapons, I can understand that they want to level the playing field.

 

[miamited]

Kind of like a thief telling others that they can't steal. Or a murderer telling others that they can't murder. Or a liar telling others that they can't lie. It's actually exactly like that!

 

[ezrider]

Kind of like a thief telling others that they can't steal. Or a murderer telling others that they can't murder. Or a liar telling others that they can't lie. It's actually exactly like that!

Oh, it's worse than that. We have a foreign policy based upon a misquoted scripture from Genesis 12 and a worldview based upon jewish fables, like pushing the narrative of the book of Esther being indicative of the modern state of Iran.

Titus 1:10
For there are many unruly and vain talkers and deceivers, specially they of the circumcision: Whose mouths must be stopped, who subvert whole houses, teaching things which they ought not, for filthy lucre's sake.

Titus 1:14
Not giving heed to Jewish fables, and commandments of men, that turn from the truth.

 

[miamited]

Consider that 15 of the 19 WTC attackers were from Saudi Arabia, and hey, we seem to be great friends with them.

While not always smooth, the United States and Saudi Arabia maintain a complex but significant relationship characterized by both cooperation and tension. They are not simply "friends" but rather strategic partners with shared interests, particularly in regional security and energy markets, but also with points of friction. And yet 15 Saudi citizens took part in the WTC attack. And under the current administration we're setting up golf sporting events with them and having cordial relations, even though they murdered Mr. Khashoggi. How is it that we consider our moral compass to be somehow greater than the Arab nations, as a nation?

So, why do we have such a great relationship with the nation that provided a large part of the people that pulled off the greatest attack against us since Pearl Harbor?

 

[Fish153]

Kind of like a thief telling others that they can't steal. Or a murderer telling others that they can't murder. Or a liar telling others that they can't lie. It's actually exactly like that!

miamited---

Big difference though. We don't say "we want to wipe Russia off the face of the earth" and pursue greater nuclear weapons. We have them as a DETERRENT. Iran has openly stated they want to destroy Israel off the face of the earth--or push them into the sea. Think of a neighborhood. The neighbors state: "we have weapons in our home to protect ourselves from intruders". But what if one neighbor stated: "We are buying shotguns in hopes that one day we can blast the Rosenbergs in the house at the end of the street off of our block". What Iran is doing and saying is much different than what the USA is saying. And what if that neighbor had already broken the windows in the Rosenbergs house, and had killed their cat? Would you say "oh, well the Rosenbergs have every right to own those shotguns?" Or would you seek a way to prevent them from having them--or severely restrict their ability to do harm to anyone? Think about it.

 

[miamited]

Think about it.

Consider it thought about.

 

[Fish153]

Consider it thought about.

OK---thanks for mulling it over for a moment.

 

[ezrider]

We have them as a DETERRENT.

That is what we say, yet the United States is the only country to ever use them on a civilian population.

Israel has nuclear weapons. How has that acted as a deterrent? Or maybe better asked, what has it deterred? After Israel provoked Iran into what Trump now dubs the 12 day war, did the Israeli nuclear arsenal deter Iran from responding with ballistic missiles and drone attacks that managed to do significant damage in Tel Aviv and Haifa? The answer to that is no, they didn't.

Think of a neighborhood. The neighbors state: "we have weapons in our home to protect ourselves from intruders"

Yes, in this neighborhood, the state of Israel is the neighbor who has all the weapons to protect themselves. Not just the nuclear weapons they illegally posses under international law, but their defense systems like Iron Dome, David Sling, Arrow Systems 1 and 2, THAAD, the Patriot Systems.

But what if one neighbor stated: "We are buying shotguns in hopes that one day we can blast the Rosenbergs in the house at the end of the street off of our block". What Iran is doing and saying is much different than what the USA is saying. And what if that neighbor had already broken the windows in the Rosenbergs house, and had killed their cat? Would you say "oh, well the Rosenbergs have every right to own those shotguns?" Or would you seek a way to prevent them from having them--or severely restrict their ability to do harm to anyone?

In your example here, the Rosenbergs are the state of Iran (it's okay, there are still has jewish communities living inside Iran), while the state of Israel and Benjamin Netanyahu specifically have been threatening and attaching Iran for more than 33 years now. Not just once, but many times have the Israelis broken into their neighbor Iran's house and have assassinated their leaders and have assassinated their scientists.

It was not Iran who turned pagers into weapons of war against their neighbors in Lebanon, it was Israel.


Can you tell me, when was the last time the state of Iran invaded or attacked one of it's neighbors unprovoked?

 

[Fish153]

That is what we say, yet the United States is the only country to ever use them on a civilian population.

Israel has nuclear weapons. How has that acted as a deterrent? Or maybe better asked, what has it deterred? After Israel provoked Iran into what Trump now dubs the 12 day war, did the Israeli nuclear arsenal deter Iran from responding with ballistic missiles and drone attacks that managed to do significant damage in Tel Aviv and Haifa? The answer to that is no, they didn't.




Yes, in this neighborhood, the state of Israel is the neighbor who has all the weapons to protect themselves. Not just the nuclear weapons they illegally posses under international law, but their defense systems like Iron Dome, David Sling, Arrow Systems 1 and 2, THAAD, the Patriot Systems.




In your example here, the Rosenbergs are the state of Iran (it's okay, there are still has jewish communities living inside Iran), while the state of Israel and Benjamin Netanyahu specifically have been threatening and attaching Iran for more than 33 years now. Not just once, but many times have the Israelis broken into their neighbor Iran's house and have assassinated their leaders and have assassinated their scientists.

It was not Iran who turned pagers into weapons of war against their neighbors in Lebanon, it was Israel.


Can you tell me, when was the last time the state of Iran invaded or attacked one of it's neighbors unprovoked?

ezrider--

You just hate Israel. Israel has not been threatening Iran. They have not been saying they want to remove them from the map. Israel is literally surrounded by enemies. Of course they have the iron Dome and other defenses. they are the only Democracy in that whole region. And yes---the USA is the only country to have used nuclear weapons in a war. That war DID end as a result of the bombs dropped. Think of it----Japan did not surrender after the first bomb was dropped. The second one had to be dropped before they surrendered. it was horrible---and hopefully never happens ever again---but the bombs DID end a war at that time. But, it is a fact that you literally hate Israel---it is easily seen in your tone. You have labeled Israel as "Satan" in your posts. You are deeply deceived---so it is hard to have a discussion about Israel with you.

 

[ezrider]

ezrider--

You just hate Israel. Israel has not been threatening Iran. They have not been saying they want to remove them from the map. Israel is literally surrounded by enemies. Of course they have the iron Dome and other defenses. they are the only Democracy in that whole region. And yes---the USA is the only country to have used nuclear weapons in a war. That war DID end as a result of the bombs dropped. Think of it----Japan did not surrender after the first bomb was dropped. The second one had to be dropped before they surrendered. it was horrible---and hopefully never happens ever again---but the bombs DID end a war at that time. But, it is a fact that you literally hate Israel---it is easily seen in your tone. You have labeled Israel as "Satan" in your posts. You are deeply deceived---so it is hard to have a discussion about Israel with you.

You didn't answer my question. When was the last time the state of Iran invaded or attacked one of it's neighbors unprovoked?

An no, I don't hate Israel, I just see the state for what it is. I am not blinded by some romanticized version of the state you read about in your bible called Israel, nor am I coerced by the jewish fables from 2500 years ago served to us as a modern reality.

Did Elijah hate Israel? How about Isaiah, Jeremiah, John the Baptist.... did they all hate Israel? Or did those in power seek to have them killed?

 

[ezrider]

Don't you see or understand? From 1941-1945 Germany murdered (6) million Jews. And yet (3) years later the remnant of Jewish people were reborn into their OWN LAND (5-14-1948). This was a MIRACLE OF GOD.

You stated the above in a different thread, saying that the jewish people were reborn into their own land, and to this you added it was a miracle of God. Are you saying in 1948 the jewish peoples were resurrected? Or by reborn, do do mean the parcel of land created under the United Nation Charter and given to the jewish peoples in a land that was not theirs, not for thousands of years. The modern state of Israel was born out of sin.

Was it a Miracle? Or a Lying wonder?

2 Thessalonians 2:9
Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders,

But, it is a fact that you literally hate Israel---it is easily seen in your tone. You have labeled Israel as "Satan" in your posts. You are deeply deceived---so it is hard to have a discussion about Israel with you.

And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved. And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:

 

[Fish153]

You didn't answer my question. When was the last time the state of Iran invaded or attacked one of it's neighbors unprovoked?

An no, I don't hate Israel, I just see the state for what it is. I am not blinded by some romanticized version of the state you read about in your bible called Israel, nor am I coerced by the jewish fables from 2500 years ago served to us as a modern reality.

Did Elijah hate Israel? How about Isaiah, Jeremiah, John the Baptist.... did they all hate Israel? Or did those in power seek to have them killed?

Iran didn't invade or attack one of it's neighbors unprovoked, true. But Iran FUNDS PROXIES who do attack neighbors. Hamas attacked and killed 1400 Israelis. They used systematic rape and torture while doing so. It is a FACT that Hamas is funded by Iran--and so are the Houthi rebels. Everyone (even many of the Middle eastern countries around them) KNOW that Iran backs terror groups. If you don't see this and realize it you are being willfully blind.

And the fact is--it is a miracle that Israel is back in their land. The Temple was destroyed in AD 70 and the Jews were scattered. They remained scattered among many nations for 2000 years. In 1947 the Dead Sea Scrolls (the ancient Hebrew scrolls) were discovered in caves. One year later Israel became a Nation once again. This is no COINCIDENCE. God's hand is involved here. In Isaiah 11 God stated he would re-gather his people in the last days back into their land. He has clearly done this. Israel is far from perfect. It is very possible God is very displeased with them---just as he was in the past.

But it doesn't take away from the fact that they ARE his earthly people, and he is USING THEM still. On a future day they will ALL turn to Jesus as the Messiah, and weep and mourn as they realize that Jesus was the Messiah all along! But Satan knows that when the Jews turn to Jesus as a Nation HE IS DONE--HE IS THROUGH. So He is trying in every way that he can to DESTROY THEM before they can repent. You need to look at history to see this. It is true. Satan has always hated the Jews---and he still does! He wants Israel OFF THE MAP. Don't be deceived into believing that the Nation of Israel was not brought back home by the Hand of God. It is God's work, will and plan that Israel be where they are right now---on the map---never to be moved again!

 

[Manasseh]

You're a person who dodges a lot, LoL. I'm gonna let it go, but be advised that antisemitism is a bannable offense on this forum. So is incessant dodging.

Blessings,
- H

Could you please define Ant-Semitism for me?

 

[Manasseh]

I'm new here, so I don't want to step on any toes. That being said, are you aware that Netanyahu has been saying that Iran is days or weeks away from a nuclear weapon since 1992? It's a verifiable fact.

That's a long history of dishonesty.

Once you have verified these claims,
and I hope you do. Will you still believe everything else they tell you?

That doesn't sound like a wise choice to me.

 

[Hidden In Him]

Could you please define Ant-Semitism for me?

Greetings. Manasseh. On this forum, a rough definition would be overtly racist-sounding remarks that suggests a deep and abiding hatred for the Jews.

That's a long history of dishonesty.

Once you have verified these claims,
and I hope you do. Will you still believe everything else they tell you?

That doesn't sound like a wise choice to me.

I don't think it's a wise choice to ever believe everything a politician says. If they didn't know how to play the game most would not get elected to begin with. Kinda comes with the territory.

 

[Manasseh]

Greetings. Manasseh. On this forum, a rough definition would be overtly racist-sounding remarks that suggests a deep and abiding hatred for the Jews.


I don't think it's a wise choice to ever believe everything a politician says. If they didn't know how to play the game most would not get elected to begin with. Kinda comes with the territory.

Well, that's encouraging. I have no interest in politics, at least not on a political level.

How, in your view, or more particularly, in the view of the forum, would you define such hatred? It seems very arbitrary to me and I just want to make sure that I don't cross any boundaries.

 

[Hidden In Him]

Well, that's encouraging. I have no interest in politics, at least not on a political level.

How, in your view, or more particularly, in the view of the forum, would you define such hatred? It seems very arbitrary to me and I just want to make sure that I don't cross any boundaries.

We're not that nit picky, brother. We just don't go in for rabid, over-the-top Jew bashing, any more than for any other race or political party or denomination or religious affiliation. The Christian should be an example of love to everyone on planet earth, so we try to uphold that ideal here. Doesn't matter who does and doesn't deserve it, we hold to letting our rain fall on the just and the unjust, and let God be judge of what will become of the wicked.