Faith’s Strength

[netchaplain]

How strong your faith is, will be determined by three primary elements: how much you study the Word of God, how you understand the Word of God and proper application of the Word of God! Knowing God’s Word is what can save a soul if “rightly dividing” (2Tim 2:15 - understanding) the Word, and this is what determines the strength of one’s faith; for “faith comes . . . by hearing the Word of God (Rom 10:17). Thus, the most important is obviously first—knowing God’s Word concerning salvation, otherwise faith cannot be imparted! Once the Word is known concerning salvation, faith can be imparted, if one is sincere concerning the Father’s drawing (Jhn 6:44).

“The Lamb's Book of Life contains all the names of those God knows are not going to reject salvation. What a mighty God, Who has omniscience of all things “before the foundation of the world” (Eph 1:4; Rev 13:8; 17:8). He also knew the saved would be few, in comparison to the unsaved (Matt 7:13, 14). Saving “faith” is a fruit of the Holy Spirit (Gal 5:22), and those who have Him are permanently indwelled by Him (Jhn 14:16).

Love is not believing after seeing proof (1Co 1:22; Mat 12:38, 39; 16:1), it must be believing without proof; which exactly “faith” is. “Departing from the faith” (1Ti 4:1) is not leaving the faith itself, but leaving the doctrine of faith, from which hypocrites will eventually “depart.”

We know we have faith when our continuous “desire” is to “please” God (Phl 2:13; Jhn 8:29), regardless of all situations.



God’s blessings to your Family—and God be blessed!

 

[live2blieve]

Love is not believing after seeing proof (1Co 1:22; Mat 12:38, 39; 16:1), it must be believing without proof; which exactly “faith” is.

There is no true faith without proof. The references (1Co 1:22; Mat 12:38, 39; 16:1) are talking about signs: there are proofs without signs. The witnesses in the Law and Prophets (Isaiah 8:20) are the proofs which the Saviour Himself used (e.g., Luke 24:27,44). Blind faith (faith without proof) is dangerous, because people can believe whatever they want to rather than the truth. Therefore, the Biblical definition of faith includes proof (evidence):

Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen (Hebrews 11:1).

 

[netchaplain]

There is no true faith without proof. The references (1Co 1:22; Mat 12:38, 39; 16:1) are talking about signs: there are proofs without signs. The witnesses in the Law and Prophets (Isaiah 8:20) are the proofs which the Saviour Himself used (e.g., Luke 24:27,44). Blind faith (faith without proof) is dangerous, because people can believe whatever they want to rather than the truth. Therefore, the Biblical definition of faith includes proof (evidence):

Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen (Hebrews 11:1).

Hi, and thanks for the reply! True, faith can come by proof, but if proof is required it's a weak faith (not including you here). If proof comes when not seeking proof, faith is strong; but if seeking proof, faith is "wicked and adulterous" (Mat 16:4 - again, not including you here); because proof eliminates faith. This is why God reduced the proof, so faith can be at it's strongest, for faith will not be needed in the next life. Then we will walk by sight.

"Faith is the substance," not proof. God uses faith to save people, it's "through faith" only that we are saved (Eph 2:8).

"We look not at the things which are seen, but at the things which are not seen: for the things which are seen are temporal; but the things which are not seen are eternal" (2Co 4:18).

Remember, for now, "we walk by faith, not by sight" (2Co 5:7).
"For we are saved by hope: but hope that is seen is not hope: for what a man seeth, why doth he yet hope for" (Rom 8:24)?

 

[live2blieve]

Hi, and thanks for the reply! True, faith can come by proof, but if proof is required it's a weak faith (not including you here). If proof comes when not seeking proof, faith is strong; but if seeking proof, faith is "wicked and adulterous" (Mat 16:4 - again, not including you here); because proof eliminates faith. This is why God reduced the proof, so faith can be at it's strongest, for faith will not be needed in the next life. Then we will walk by sight.

"Faith is the substance," not proof. God uses faith to save people, it's "through faith" only that we are saved (Eph 2:8).

"We look not at the things which are seen, but at the things which are not seen: for the things which are seen are temporal; but the things which are not seen are eternal" (2Co 4:18).

Remember, for now, "we walk by faith, not by sight" (2Co 5:7).
"For we are saved by hope: but hope that is seen is not hope: for what a man seeth, why doth he yet hope for" (Rom 8:24)?

Please read Romans 10:14-17. Faith comes by hearing the preacher sent by Yahweh. It comes in the cloud of witnesses (Hebrews 12:1). For example, if someone has a rare disease which requires a life-saving surgery, will he have faith in the first surgeon found on yellow pages? Or he will investigate different surgeons, check the witnesses and reviews, and find an expert who has done hundreds of similar operations with 100% success rate? The first will be blind faith (not faith, really, but a gamble), but the second will be the true faith or trust based on the evidence. Similarly, Biblical faith is "the evidence of things not seen" (Hebrews 11:1).

 

[Fastfredy0]

How strong your faith is, will be determined by three primary elements: how much you study the Word of God, how you understand the Word of God and proper application of the Word of God! Knowing God’s Word is what can save a soul if “rightly dividing” (2Tim 2:15 - understanding) the Word, and this is what determines the strength of one’s faith; for “faith comes . . . by hearing the Word of God (Rom 10:17). Thus, the most important is obviously first—knowing God’s Word concerning salvation, otherwise faith cannot be imparted! Once the Word is known concerning salvation, faith can be imparted, if one is sincere concerning the Father’s drawing (Jhn 6:44).

Whether ones faith is strong or weak or non-existent is determined by God.
John 6:29 This is the work of God that you believe.
Mark 9:24 Immediately the father of the boy cried out [with a desperate, piercing cry], saying, “I do believe;
help [me overcome] my unbelief.”
Luke 17:5 “The apostles said to the Lord, ‘Increase our faith!’”

A person can know the bible exhaustively; yet, not have saving faith. I grant that faith cometh by hearing and that faith consists of knowledge and faith is probably stronger in a person that studies the bible, but your desire to study the bible is a function of the leading of the Spirit and your faith is dependent on the Spirit ... 1 Cor. 2:14 But the natural [unbelieving] man does not accept the things [the teachings and revelations] of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness [absurd and illogical] to him; and he is incapable of understanding them, because they are spiritually discerned and appreciated, [and he is unqualified to judge spiritual matters].

 

[Manasseh]

How strong your faith is, will be determined by three primary elements: how much you study the Word of God, how you understand the Word of God and proper application of the Word of God! Knowing God’s Word is what can save a soul if “rightly dividing” (2Tim 2:15 - understanding) the Word, and this is what determines the strength of one’s faith; for “faith comes . . . by hearing the Word of God (Rom 10:17). Thus, the most important is obviously first—knowing God’s Word concerning salvation, otherwise faith cannot be imparted! Once the Word is known concerning salvation, faith can be imparted, if one is sincere concerning the Father’s drawing (Jhn 6:44).

“The Lamb's Book of Life contains all the names of those God knows are not going to reject salvation. What a mighty God, Who has omniscience of all things “before the foundation of the world” (Eph 1:4; Rev 13:8; 17:8). He also knew the saved would be few, in comparison to the unsaved (Matt 7:13, 14). Saving “faith” is a fruit of the Holy Spirit (Gal 5:22), and those who have Him are permanently indwelled by Him (Jhn 14:16).

Love is not believing after seeing proof (1Co 1:22; Mat 12:38, 39; 16:1), it must be believing without proof; which exactly “faith” is. “Departing from the faith” (1Ti 4:1) is not leaving the faith itself, but leaving the doctrine of faith, from which hypocrites will eventually “depart.”

We know we have faith when our continuous “desire” is to “please” God (Phl 2:13; Jhn 8:29), regardless of all situations.



God’s blessings to your Family—and God be blessed!

Tell me about your prayer life brother.

 

[netchaplain]

Please read Romans 10:14-17. Faith comes by hearing the preacher sent by Yahweh. It comes in the cloud of witnesses (Hebrews 12:1). For example, if someone has a rare disease which requires a life-saving surgery, will he have faith in the first surgeon found on yellow pages? Or he will investigate different surgeons, check the witnesses and reviews, and find an expert who has done hundreds of similar operations with 100% success rate? The first will be blind faith (not faith, really, but a gamble), but the second will be the true faith or trust based on the evidence. Similarly, Biblical faith is "the evidence of things not seen" (Hebrews 11:1).

It's ok, but it appears we have different understandings about this issue. Thanks for you explanations and God bless!

 

[netchaplain]

Whether ones faith is strong or weak or non-existent is determined by God.

Hi, and appreciate your reply! I agree, all things are determined by God, Who is omniscient and already knows everything that will transpire is this life. I believe faith is weakest in "babes-in-Christ" (carnal believers - Rom 13:11), then God causes them to be conformed to His Son' image (this is every true believer and requires much time). When we "first believed" (Romans 13:11) our faith is at it's smallest, but strong enough for saving-faith, even if it's the size of "a grain of mustard seed"; which are the smallest seeds on earth (Mar 4:31); then God causes us to grow, i.e. we become greater in our faith (v 32).

A person can know the bible exhaustively; yet, not have saving faith. I grant that faith cometh by hearing and that faith consists of knowledge and faith is probably stronger in a person that studies the bible, but your desire to study the bible is a function of the leading of the Spirit and your faith is dependent on the Spirit ... 1 Cor. 2:14 But the natural [unbelieving] man does not accept the things [the teachings and revelations] of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness [absurd and illogical] to him; and he is incapable of understanding them, because they are spiritually discerned and appreciated, [and he is unqualified to judge spiritual matters].

I like what you said here! Yes, it's the Holy Spirit that causes us to grow in Christ, because the Spirit teaches us what's in His Word (1Co 2:13), He being the Author (2Pe 1:21).

 

[netchaplain]

Tell me about your prayer life brother.

Hi Brother, thanks for the interest, and I see you probably know the significance of prayer. In the a.m. is when I pray the longest, and then just continue to bless, praise and thank God through the day for salvation and all His blessings.

God's blessings to your Family, and God be blessed!

 

[netchaplain]

Hi, and appreciate your reply! I agree, all things are determined by God, Who is omniscient and already knows everything that will transpire is this life. I believe faith is weakest in "babes-in-Christ" (carnal believers - Rom 13:11), then God causes them to be conformed to His Son' image (this is every true believer and requires much time). When we "first believed" (Romans 13:11) our faith is at it's smallest, but strong enough for saving-faith, even if it's the size of "a grain of mustard seed"; which are the smallest seeds on earth (Mar 4:31); then God causes us to grow, i.e. we become greater in our faith (v 32).



I like what you said here! Yes, it's the Holy Spirit that causes us to grow in Christ, because the Spirit teaches us what's in His Word (1Co 2:13), He being the Author (2Pe 1:21).

I noticed I have the wrong Scripture after babes in Christ. Should be 1Co 3:1.

 

[Manasseh]

Hi Brother, thanks for the interest, and I see you probably know the significance of prayer. In the a.m. is when I pray the longest, and then just continue to bless, praise and thank God through the day for salvation and all His blessings.

God's blessings to your Family, and God be blessed!

Thank you. I only mentioned it because you did not. I agree with you about the importance of the Word. What sensible christian wouldn't?

And yet, the collection of books we call the bible, as you know, has not always been available to believers. Everyone having a bible is a fairly modern development.

Even now, there are faithful saints all around the world who are living with only fragments of Gods written word. And they somehow manage quite well, enduring persecution to the point of imprisonment and often death. How do they have such great faith without the written word? They have His Living Word, and the Spirit of Christ to guide them.

Knowledge puffs up. And one can know the bible forward and back but still not have Gods Living Word within them. Or as Paul said, "ever learning and never coming to the knowledge of the truth".

If I had to choose between the two, my prayer life or my library, I would take the prayer life. As Gods Holy Word is already written upon my heart.

I'm sure you know all of this. But there are many who come here who may be new in the faith, or still seeking. Just trying to bring a little balance to the discussion.

Shalom Shalom

 

[Bruce.Leiter]

Please read Romans 10:14-17. Faith comes by hearing the preacher sent by Yahweh. It comes in the cloud of witnesses (Hebrews 12:1). For example, if someone has a rare disease which requires a life-saving surgery, will he have faith in the first surgeon found on yellow pages? Or he will investigate different surgeons, check the witnesses and reviews, and find an expert who has done hundreds of similar operations with 100% success rate? The first will be blind faith (not faith, really, but a gamble), but the second will be the true faith or trust based on the evidence. Similarly, Biblical faith is "the evidence of things not seen" (Hebrews 11:1).

live2blieve, what "cloud of witnesses" do you think Hebrews 12:1 is referring to? In the context, it is all the Old Testament people of faith that chapter 11 describes.

 

[netchaplain]

And yet, the collection of books we call the bible, as you know, has not always been available to believers. Everyone having a bible is a fairly modern development.
Even now, there are faithful saints all around the world who are living with only fragments of Gods written word. And they somehow manage quite well, enduring persecution to the point of imprisonment and often death. How do they have such great faith without the written word? They have His Living Word, and the Spirit of Christ to guide them.

Pretty good, and appreciate this informational reply!

"The New Testament was completed roughly 60-70 years after Jesus's ascension. The earliest writings, like Paul's letters, began around 20 years after Jesus's death, and the final books were completed by the end of the 1st century CE" --Google

 

[Manasseh]

Pretty good, and appreciate this informational reply!

"The New Testament was completed roughly 60-70 years after Jesus's ascension. The earliest writings, like Paul's letters, began around 20 years after Jesus's death, and the final books were completed by the end of the 1st century CE" --Google

You may have missed my point.
I'll try to clarify.

Having a completed bible, and access to the bible are not the same thing. Europeans didn't have Gods word in their native tongues until the 16th century. I've got some brothers and sisters who have been making annual trips smuggling bibles into China for decades.

There are millions of believers around the world living faithfully before God, enduring persecution, and in many cases laying down their lives for Christ, who may have only fragments of Gods word, or none at all.

How do they maintain their faithful walk with God without the Word?

They have the living Word.

Bible study is a wonderful thing, I would be very upset if I lost access to my library, but it wouldn't affect my walk with Christ at all. As His word is written upon my heart.

I'm not trying to be disagreeable, I just believe that growing in faith is more about the doing of Gods word, than in the hearing. Which of course, you did mention in your post. I do not disagree with anything you said, I just felt that it overemphasized the written word over the Living Word or Spirit of Christ within.

It was a good post, and I appreciated it very much.

Shalom Shalom

 

[netchaplain]

I'm not trying to be disagreeable, I just believe that growing in faith is more about the doing of Gods word, than in the hearing.

I agree, the doing advances us in the understanding of His Word (but the knowledge has to be first of course), which is inexhaustible in the teaching of God's will and pleasures. He does continually increase the understanding of those who apply themselves to studying more of the Word! The more we read and study, the more God gives the understanding.

But there is an insurmountable difficulty and highly problematic situation concerning the word of God. The modern translations use the recently discovered false manuscripts, which are the oldest, but are only about three copies (Vaticanus, Sinaiticus and Alexandrinus), which I believe will be used by the Enemy to decrease believers advancement in the Word. They lack much of true Scripture and I believe this problem will not be dealt with by most Christians; because many believers are not that interested in the errors, completeness and the "rightly dividing of the Word (Mat 4:4).

There are thousands of differences between the Received Text Bibles and the revised versions, with some estimates suggesting over 30,000 changes. These changes include alterations, additions, and omissions, particularly in the Greek text used as the basis for the King James Version (KJV) and later revisions. Example: 1Jn 5:7 is omitted in the modern versions.

I only share this when I think it should be known by those who want to study the Word.

 

[Manasseh]

Yes sir, hard to be obedient to that which you do not understand.

I was brought up on the KJV, but switched over to the NASB after I met Christ. I've always loved the KJV but never understood the KJV only crowd. And then a couple of years ago I decided to take a deeper dive into textual criticism. I can confirm for those reading this, that you are indeed correct.

I still don't agree with KJV only, but I've removed most of the translations from my Library that stem from the root of that poisonous tree, which is the Revised Version.

I have a facsimile edition of the 1560 Geneva, but its huge and I've been looking to get a more compact edition for everyday carry. I'm sure you are familiar with the Geneva, but I've been surprised as to how many believers have never heard of it.

Have you heard of the New Matthew Bible? Its my go to choice for casual reading these days. It's a very gentle and absolutely beautiful update of William Tyndales 1526 New Testament. Highly recommended.
Sadly, it may be some time before the Old Testament update is available.

 

[Free]

But there is an insurmountable difficulty and highly problematic situation concerning the word of God. The modern translations use the recently discovered false manuscripts, which are the oldest, but are only about three copies (Vaticanus, Sinaiticus and Alexandrinus), which I believe will be used by the Enemy to decrease believers advancement in the Word. They lack much of true Scripture and I believe this problem will not be dealt with by most Christians; because many believers are not that interested in the errors, completeness and the "rightly dividing of the Word (Mat 4:4).

This is very misleading.

https://www.gotquestions.org/Codex-Sinaiticus-Vaticanus.html

There are thousands of differences between the Received Text Bibles and the revised versions, with some estimates suggesting over 30,000 changes. These changes include alterations, additions, and omissions, particularly in the Greek text used as the basis for the King James Version (KJV) and later revisions. Example: 1Jn 5:7 is omitted in the modern versions.

The problem is that this is fallaciously begging the question. You're beginning by assuming the KJV is correct, or that the manuscript behind it is correct, and then using that to conclude that it is correct and newer versions are wrong.

 

[netchaplain]

Yes sir, hard to be obedient to that which you do not understand.

I was brought up on the KJV, but switched over to the NASB after I met Christ. I've always loved the KJV but never understood the KJV only crowd. And then a couple of years ago I decided to take a deeper dive into textual criticism. I can confirm for those reading this, that you are indeed correct.

I still don't agree with KJV only, but I've removed most of the translations from my Library that stem from the root of that poisonous tree, which is the Revised Version.

I have a facsimile edition of the 1560 Geneva, but its huge and I've been looking to get a more compact edition for everyday carry. I'm sure you are familiar with the Geneva, but I've been surprised as to how many believers have never heard of it.

Have you heard of the New Matthew Bible? Its my go to choice for casual reading these days. It's a very gentle and absolutely beautiful update of William Tyndales 1526 New Testament. Highly recommended.
Sadly, it may be some time before the Old Testament update is available.

Check these 2 passages and if they are incomplete, then the translators used the false manuscripts; that means
hundreds of passages are partially omitted: 1Jn 5:7; Jn3:13. Most Christians aren't going to understand the serious differences between modern translations and traditional translations. Like I said, most do not read enough of the Word to see the problem with the modern versions. Of course nothing can effect your position of salvation, but the wrong translation does effect the growth of your faith.

 

[netchaplain]

This is very misleading.

https://www.gotquestions.org/Codex-Sinaiticus-Vaticanus.html


The problem is that this is fallaciously begging the question. You're beginning by assuming the KJV is correct, or that the manuscript behind it is correct, and then using that to conclude that it is correct and newer versions are wrong.

Hi, and thanks for your reply! The translations that use the Majority Text are the only one's that contain the whole Word of God. The Minority Text uses the oldest manuscript copies, but they are old because most scribes would not use the Majority Text for coping, and therefore did not wear out like those of the traditional translations.

Check 2Sam 21:19, it says Elhanan slew Goliath. It's supposed to say he slew the brother of Goliath; same as the re-account in 1Chronicals 20:5, which Lamiah was Goliath's brother.

There are enumerable changes is the modern versions and they do not contain the entire Word of God (Mat 4:4).

 

[Free]

Hi, and thanks for your reply! The translations that use the Majority Text are the only one's that contain the whole Word of God. The Minority Text uses the oldest manuscript copies, but they are old because most scribes would not use the Majority Text for coping, and therefore did not wear out like those of the traditional translations.

Check 2Sam 21:19, it says Elhanan slew Goliath. It's supposed to say he slew the brother of Goliath; same as the re-account in 1Chronicals 20:5, which Lamiah was Goliath's brother.

There are enumerable changes is the modern versions and they do not contain the entire Word of God (Mat 4:4).

But, again, this an error in reasoning on your part (and extremely common in KJVOism), called begging the question. You first assume that the KJV is correct and use that to conclude other versions are wrong and the KJV is correct. The KJV could just as likely have verses removed or added (like 1 John 5:7), or have slightly altered text.

It is not rational to believe that the text of newer versions have made the changes and not that of the TR, nor that “modern versions . . . do not contain the entire Word of God.” The vast majority of translations say all the same things, just in different ways.