Are unbelievers going to be saved in the future?

[MisterE]

Why do some passage state that all unbelievers are redeemed? Can you be redeemed and still go to Lake of Fire?

 

[Bruce.Leiter]

Eve was deceived when she sinned. I don't see that as self-centeredness. Sin is any violation of God's moral law. Eve did that.

Okay, I see your point, MisterE, but if God through Paul commands you the following, and you don't follow it completely, aren't you sinning?

1Th 5:16 Rejoice always,
1Th 5:17 pray without ceasing,
1Th 5:18 give thanks in all circumstances; for this is the will of God in Christ Jesus for you.

When Adam and Eve sinned, they gave into the devil's lie that they could rise to God's level by running their own lives instead of accepting his guidance. That's the self-centeredness of sin that goes much deeper than transgressions of the moral law.

 

[MisterE]

Okay, I see your point, MisterE, but if God through Paul commands you the following, and you don't follow it completely, aren't you sinning?

1Th 5:16 Rejoice always,
1Th 5:17 pray without ceasing,
1Th 5:18 give thanks in all circumstances; for this is the will of God in Christ Jesus for you.

When Adam and Eve sinned, they gave into the devil's lie that they could rise to God's level by running their own lives instead of accepting his guidance. That's the self-centeredness of sin that goes much deeper than transgressions of the moral law.

Yes, you are sinning. That which is not from faith is sin.

Here is a statement Paul makes that I think bears on our subject:
I was formerly a blasphemer, a persecutor, and a violent man; yet because I had acted in ignorance and unbelief, I was shown mercy. 1 Tim 1.13

Paul was ignorant of his violating God's moral law. God did not hold him accountable. I think Adam and Eve would fall under that same umbrella. Two things must be present for sin to occur:
1) Intent
2) Volition

it must be one's intent to violate one of God's moral laws, otherwise it is done in ignorance (such as Adam and Eve and Paul)
the person has to use his uninhibited volition rather than being coerced or deceived (this is why Paul was shown mercy since it was done in ignorance, in fact all people are shown mercy, Rm 10.32)

(my thoughts on the nuances of sin are still a work in progress. Any input would be appreciated.)

 

[Bruce.Leiter]

Yes, you are sinning. That which is not from faith is sin.

Here is a statement Paul makes that I think bears on our subject:
I was formerly a blasphemer, a persecutor, and a violent man; yet because I had acted in ignorance and unbelief, I was shown mercy. 1 Tim 1.13

Paul was ignorant of his violating God's moral law. God did not hold him accountable. I think Adam and Eve would fall under that same umbrella. Two things must be present for sin to occur:
1) Intent
2) Volition

it must be one's intent to violate one of God's moral laws, otherwise it is done in ignorance (such as Adam and Eve and Paul)
the person has to use his uninhibited volition rather than being coerced or deceived (this is why Paul was shown mercy since it was done in ignorance, in fact all people are shown mercy, Rm 10.32)

(my thoughts on the nuances of sin are still a work in progress. Any input would be appreciated.)

MisterE, I submit that you are reading too much into the idea and commission of sin. Paul says that humans are without any excuse before their Creator-Judge when they have turned their backs on him in the face of his revelation of his great creative power shown in his amazing universe:

Rom 1:18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who by their unrighteousness suppress the truth.
Rom 1:19 For what can be known about God is plain to them, because God has shown it to them.
Rom 1:20 For his invisible attributes, namely, his eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly perceived, ever since the creation of the world, in the things that have been made. So they are without excuse.

Even ignoring the Creator's "eternal power and divine nature" qualifies as sin, according to Paul. Thus, we're all guilty until faith in Jesus' atoning sacrifice takes away our guilt. That's Paul's point in Romans 1:18--3:21.

 

[GodsGrace]

MisterE, I submit that you are reading too much into the idea and commission of sin. Paul says that humans are without any excuse before their Creator-Judge when they have turned their backs on him in the face of his revelation of his great creative power shown in his amazing universe:

Rom 1:18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who by their unrighteousness suppress the truth.
Rom 1:19 For what can be known about God is plain to them, because God has shown it to them.
Rom 1:20 For his invisible attributes, namely, his eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly perceived, ever since the creation of the world, in the things that have been made. So they are without excuse.

Even ignoring the Creator's "eternal power and divine nature" qualifies as sin, according to Paul. Thus, we're all guilty until faith in Jesus' atoning sacrifice takes away our guilt. That's Paul's point in Romans 1:18--3:21.

Am I not turning my back on God because HE wants me to?
Is this not what Calvinism teaches??

How does ANY verse in the bible have any real meaning when everything depends on what God has predestined for each one of us?

According to Calvin...if I ignore the Creator, it's because He desires me to.