For those "not a sheep" . . . what next?

[Deavonreye]

I had asked savedbygrace57 a question in another thread, but it got buried under other stuff, so I would like to pose those questions here.

The thread in question was about the "myth that Jesus died for everyone".

If I, as a person not called to be "a sheep", am to ask some about my fate, I would be one "who was made for destruction". I had no say in the matter, . . . my fate was decided from the beginning.

Here is my question:

Do you believe that I, as a person not called to be "a sheep", deserve to be sent to eternal misery in hell? Key words are "eternal" and "misery". Please don't post scripture or dogma, answer this from your own thoughts/feelings, . . .and think about what "eternal" and "misery" means. Also, remember that everyone "sins", even those who claim that they have "walked away from their sin". They still "sin". . . . the only difference is that someone was able to believe in a concept [found in the bible] that has no real evidence, . . . someone else wasn't able to honestly state that belief.

Thank you for your input.

 

[Danus]

I had asked savedbygrace57 a question in another thread, but it got buried under other stuff, so I would like to pose those questions here.

The thread in question was about the "myth that Jesus died for everyone".

If I, as a person not called to be "a sheep", am to ask some about my fate, I would be one "who was made for destruction". I had no say in the matter, . . . my fate was decided from the beginning.

Here is my question:

Do you believe that I, as a person not called to be "a sheep", deserve to be sent to eternal misery in hell? Key words are "eternal" and "misery". Please don't post scripture or dogma, answer this from your own thoughts/feelings, . . .and think about what "eternal" and "misery" means. Also, remember that everyone "sins", even those who claim that they have "walked away from their sin". They still "sin". . . . the only difference is that someone was able to believe in a concept [found in the bible] that has no real evidence, . . . someone else wasn't able to honestly state that belief.

Thank you for your input.

Are you asking SBG, or anyone?

 

[Deavonreye]

I'm mostly interested in what SBG says, or those who think similarly.

Feel free to offer input, I just didn't want to get too overloaded.

 

[Danus]

I'm mostly interested in what SBG says, or those who think similarly.

Feel free to offer input, I just didn't want to get too overloaded.

Why do you see yourself as one not called, chosen, elect...ect? Your a Christian? You believe that Christ died for you and you have a relationship with Christ? You love God? You consider yourself borne again?

If you have embraced your salvation then you are elect as far as I'm concerned as it relates to your salvation and the promise of God. Besides It's not for me to tell you what your condition is. That's between you and God. You know where you stand.

What does it matter what someone else thinks? I'm not in the business of condemning others to Hell and God would not have that of me or another man. Of that I'm sure.

What do you say of yourself in this matter?

 

[westtexas]

Here is my question:

Do you believe that I, as a person not called to be "a sheep", deserve to be sent to eternal misery in hell? Key words are "eternal" and "misery". Please don't post scripture or dogma, answer this from your own thoughts/feelings, . . .and think about what "eternal" and "misery" means. Also, remember that everyone "sins", even those who claim that they have "walked away from their sin". They still "sin". . . . the only difference is that someone was able to believe in a concept [found in the bible] that has no real evidence, . . . someone else wasn't able to honestly state that belief.

Thank you for your input.

These are my thoughts and if your conversation is between you and SBG only, please just ignore them if you choose. I believe in a literal Heaven and a literal Hell. I'm not sure what y'alls conversation was about but I don't believe that anyone deserves to be sent to hell. I believe we make that choice ourselves. You didn't want scripture but out of necessity, in order to explain my personal beliefs to you, I need to quote 1 verse. Scripture says "I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing, therefore choose life". Eternity and misery are just what they imply. All of us sin but the blood of Jesus Christ covers the sins of the forgiven. Simply ask. I don't believe anyone deserves hell, I do believe we make our own choices and are held accountable for those choices.

Therefore choose life, Westtexas

 

[mlqurgw]

I had asked savedbygrace57 a question in another thread, but it got buried under other stuff, so I would like to pose those questions here.

The thread in question was about the "myth that Jesus died for everyone".

If I, as a person not called to be "a sheep", am to ask some about my fate, I would be one "who was made for destruction". I had no say in the matter, . . . my fate was decided from the beginning.

Here is my question:

Do you believe that I, as a person not called to be "a sheep", deserve to be sent to eternal misery in hell? Key words are "eternal" and "misery". Please don't post scripture or dogma, answer this from your own thoughts/feelings, . . .and think about what "eternal" and "misery" means. Also, remember that everyone "sins", even those who claim that they have "walked away from their sin". They still "sin". . . . the only difference is that someone was able to believe in a concept [found in the bible] that has no real evidence, . . . someone else wasn't able to honestly state that belief.

Thank you for your input.

I guess that I am one "those" who hold similar views to SBG57 so I will do my best to answer you honestly. Yes as do I who am a sheep. The only difference between you and I is the sovereign grace of God. I am no better than you and probably, in the normal view of things, much worse. We neither deserve the grace and glory of God and both deserve nothing from God but wrath and condemantion and everlasting punishment. What makes the difference between me being a sheep and you being a goat is God alone. We were both condemned by nature in Adam, we both were born into this world spiritually dead, we both pursued sin with both hands drinking iniquity like water, we both shook our fist in God's face saying "You have no right or claim over me." God isn't nor ever was obligated to save either of us. But He chose to save one and leave the other in their sin. That is what makes the difference between a sheep and a goat.

Having said that we also must look at the fact that those who are reprobate do not and never will desire to be saved.

 

[Deavonreye]

Why do you see yourself as one not called, chosen, elect...ect? Your a Christian? You believe that Christ died for you and you have a relationship with Christ? You love God? You consider yourself borne again?

If you have embraced your salvation then you are elect as far as I'm concerned as it relates to your salvation and the promise of God. Besides It's not for me to tell you what your condition is. That's between you and God. You know where you stand.

What does it matter what someone else thinks? I'm not in the business of condemning others to Hell and God would not have that of me or another man. Of that I'm sure.

What do you say of yourself in this matter?

I'm actually not a christian. I was, but deconverted a few years ago.

 

[Deavonreye]

These are my thoughts and if your conversation is between you and SBG only, please just ignore them if you choose. I believe in a literal Heaven and a literal Hell. I'm not sure what y'alls conversation was about but I don't believe that anyone deserves to be sent to hell. I believe we make that choice ourselves. You didn't want scripture but out of necessity, in order to explain my personal beliefs to you, I need to quote 1 verse. Scripture says "I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing, therefore choose life". Eternity and misery are just what they imply. All of us sin but the blood of Jesus Christ covers the sins of the forgiven. Simply ask. I don't believe anyone deserves hell, I do believe we make our own choices and are held accountable for those choices.

Therefore choose life, Westtexas

I completely reject the doctrine of people "choosing hell". No one "chooses" to go to everlasting punishment. It is forced upon them because of it being the only other choice. Someone who is unable to be dishonest about what they feel about the god of the bible, in other words, finding no evidence for believing THIS religion to somehow be THE only religion amongst thousands of others, . . . only having the words of other people telling you that THEY are right. Not being able to believe other PEOPLE is not the same as "choosing hell over Jesus". If I was able to experience the person of Jesus, that would go a long way to [and here's the key] making a decision of this magnatude. "Faith" is an unethical way for people's future to be determined by.

 

[Deavonreye]

I guess that I am one "those" who hold similar views to SBG57 so I will do my best to answer you honestly. Yes as do I who am a sheep. The only difference between you and I is the sovereign grace of God. I am no better than you and probably, in the normal view of things, much worse. We neither deserve the grace and glory of God and both deserve nothing from God but wrath and condemantion and everlasting punishment. What makes the difference between me being a sheep and you being a goat is God alone. We were both condemned by nature in Adam, we both were born into this world spiritually dead, we both pursued sin with both hands drinking iniquity like water, we both shook our fist in God's face saying "You have no right or claim over me." God isn't nor ever was obligated to save either of us. But He chose to save one and leave the other in their sin. That is what makes the difference between a sheep and a goat.

Having said that we also must look at the fact that those who are reprobate do not and never will desire to be saved.

So, do you believe that I deserve to be forced, by god, into everlasting punishment, for his [god's] pleasure?

 

[Igor]

So, do you believe that I deserve to be forced, by god, into everlasting punishment, for his [god's] pleasure?

I sort of understand why you ask us not to use scripture in our answers since, by your own comments, it seems you have rejected Christ. But that really does make this an unfair question. Asking us to talk about something directly related to God and His word without being able to use His word is unfair. We can’t know anything about God outside of His word to us. So any answer we could give, without scripture to back it up, is pretty meaningless and empty.

Personally, I think that you know the answer to your question from scripture and are only looking for someone to give you justification to believe you are safe from hell even though you rejected the salvation God has provided for you. Sorry, but I can't do that for you.

Oh, and by the way, there is nothing in scripture that gives any indication at all that God takes any pleasure in someone being condemned to hell. Just because it will happen does not mean God has to enjoy it.

 

[mlqurgw]

So, do you believe that I deserve to be forced, by god, into everlasting punishment, for his [god's] pleasure?

Yes I do, but as has been said God gets no pleasure from it. It is simple justice. Bow to God you will either in this life or the judegement.

 

[Deavonreye]

I sort of understand why you ask us not to use scripture in our answers since, by your own comments, it seems you have rejected Christ. But that really does make this an unfair question. Asking us to talk about something directly related to God and His word without being able to use His word is unfair. We can’t know anything about God outside of His word to us. So any answer we could give, without scripture to back it up, is pretty meaningless and empty.

Personally, I think that you know the answer to your question from scripture and are only looking for someone to give you justification to believe you are safe from hell even though you rejected the salvation God has provided for you. Sorry, but I can't do that for you.

Oh, and by the way, there is nothing in scripture that gives any indication at all that God takes any pleasure in someone being condemned to hell. Just because it will happen does not mean God has to enjoy it.

Just to make this clear. . . .I do not "reject" anyone. However, if I'm supposed to believe that a supernatural being cares about me, I need more than just words in a book and the personal testimony of other humans to believe that this "desire for me" is real. This =/= "rejection".

I know what the bible says about it. I was wanting to know how YOU felt about god sending people to eternal punishment without any choice of their own. This thread is to those who openly state that there are those who god provides NO salvation to. This isn't "justice", but merely creating souls for the purpose of them burning in hell so that a FEW can feel grateful for not being given the same eternal pain.

Rom 9:22 What if God, willing to shew his wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction.

So, if those who escape this destruction [placed purposefully on the damned, and against their will] are giving praise to god for their salvation, this will please god. The suffering of the damned results in pleasure for god. Put simply, . . . god created "vessels of destruction" in order to receive praise from "the sheep".

 

[Deavonreye]

Yes I do, but as has been said God gets no pleasure from it. It is simple justice. Bow to God you will either in this life or the judegement.

By your admission, you believe that I deserve to be sent to everlasting punishment. Please post what YOU believe this punishment to mean.

 

[savedbygrace57]

All who go to hell, God made them worthy by making them vessels of wrath which will fit themselves for destruction.

 

[savedbygrace57]

Yes I do, but as has been said God gets no pleasure from it. It is simple justice. Bow to God you will either in this life or the judegement.

So God gets no pleasure out of His own Justice ? Why not ? Is He ashamed of it ?

He got pleasure out of the Justice He excuted on His Son Isa 53:10

Yet it pleased the LORD to bruise him; he hath put him to grief: when thou shalt make his soul an offering for sin, he shall see his seed, he shall prolong his days, and the pleasure of the LORD shall prosper in his hand.

Why would God not be pleased to put rebels to grief eternally ? Are they more to Him than His Beloved Son ?

 

[Deavonreye]

sbg, they cannot be TRUE "rebels" if they had no choice in the matter.

 

[savedbygrace57]

sbg, they cannot be TRUE "rebels" if they had no choice in the matter.

Why not ? God made them rebels, so they were rebels, its not they had a choice at it.

 

[savedbygrace57]

deav:

By your admission, you believe that I deserve to be sent to everlasting punishment.

You do, and so do i..

 

[Deavonreye]

Why not ? God made them rebels, so they were rebels, its not they had a choice at it.

Because a person who has no choice, yet is punished FOR what he had no choice in, is punished unjustly. It would be the same as punishing people who were born with blue eyes.

 

[Deavonreye]

deav:



You do, and so do i...

By your admission, you believe that I deserve to be [and WILL be] sent to everlasting punishment. Please post what YOU believe this punishment to mean.