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Do you have to be baptized to achieve salvation?

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You can ask, "Do you have to be baptized to achieve salvation" and wind up with 28 pages of posts of people wrestling back and forth about whether or not 1 Peter 3:21 trumps Ephesians 2:8-9....
About this...

1 Peter 3:21, as well as other verses specifically mention baptism

Ephesians 2 mentions grace. I think where things get very complicated is that people see baptism as something separate from grace.

If we look at baptism as a means of God's grace, as a vehicle for His grace, then perhaps it wouldn't seem so confusing.

Part of this is because when we baptize others, especially if we stress a believer's baptism, only someone old enough to make a confession of faith, then we have this mistaken idea that the "work" of baptism, (whatever it is that baptism accomplishes for us is), is something we do rather than what God does.

This is very mistaken... Baptism is not a "work" that we do. We respond to the call to do it, but whatever happens when that water contacts us, happens due to God's working in us, not the other way around.

Editing to add that baptism isn't the only means of God's grace either...
 
Salvation is by grace, though faith, not of works (Ephesians 2.8,9). Nothing about baptism there. It IS a symbol for believers, who thereby identify themselves publicly as Christians.

farouk, I disagree...

Nowhere does the Scriptures ever refer to baptism as a symbol. It's traditional for some to believe it is purely symbolic, but the Scriptures do not teach that baptism is symbolic.
 
farouk, I disagree...

Nowhere does the Scriptures ever refer to baptism as a symbol. It's traditional for some to believe it is purely symbolic, but the Scriptures do not teach that baptism is symbolic.

Handy, sorry, but being born again is by the Spirit of God, not baptism. The washing of water by the word that Paul speaks of in Ephesians 5.26 is a picture of the cleansing influence of the Scriptures, it's not baptism.

When I refer to baptism, this is believer's baptism, as it's often called. In other words, it's something people do as believers, it's not something supposedly to make them believers.

Acts 2.41 says: 'Then they that gladly received his word were baptised'.
 
Salvation is by grace, though faith, not of works (Ephesians 2.8,9). Nothing about baptism there. It IS a symbol for believers, who thereby identify themselves publicly as Christians.

you forgot verse 10 (don't feel alone, most do)... We are "HIS" workmanship created in Christ Jesus. Baptism isn't anything we "do". Baptism is by the grace of God. We simply respond and God does all the "doing".

Romans 6 tells us that we are "United" to Christ in baptism. Connect the dots.
 
but being born again is by the Spirit of God, not baptism.
I agree that being born again is by the Spirit of God. I disagree that baptism is simply a "symbol"... the Scriptures nowhere teach us that baptism is a symbol.

For instance, the old testament temple had the outer tabernacle, the veil and the holy of holies, which the high priest was able to enter only once a year.
All of this was symbolic... we know this to be true because Hebrews 9:1-10 tells us that it was... An important symbol to be sure, but one that is no longer necessary because Christ has now arrived.

Baptism on the other hand is never treated as a "symbolic" act... but rather response to the receiving of the gospel. The pattern set is very clear, the Gospel was preached, the person believed and the person was baptized.


Ephesians 5:26 deserves a good look:
Christ also loved the church and gave Himself up for her, 26 so that He might sanctify her, having cleansed her by the washing of water with the word, 27 that He might present to Himself the church in all her glory, having no spot or wrinkle or any such thing; but that she would be holy and blameless.

There are several ways one can break down the phrase "washing of water with the word"... You break it down as the Scriptures "cleanse" us... which I agree that the Scriptures certainly cleanse us in the sense that they shine light upon our true nature and our need for God.

But, I look at passages like Acts 8 and Acts 16, and see that the word and the water are intrinsically linked. We receive the gospel, we are baptized.

I don't read Ephesians 5:26 as "the washing which is the word" but rather "the washing with the word"

I think we could all agree that the Scriptures are a means of God's grace. God extends His grace to us through His word and by His word we receive what we need in order to be saved. We can say, we are saved by His word. We can say we are saved by faith. We say we are saved through baptism... all of these things are correct because all of these things are ways God brings His grace to us.

What is the Grace of God.... Blue Letter Bible gives as good a definition as anyone:

1) grace
a) that which affords joy, pleasure, delight, sweetness, charm, loveliness: grace of speech


2) good will, loving-kindness, favour
a) of the merciful kindness by which God, exerting his holy influence upon souls, turns them to Christ, keeps, strengthens, increases them in Christian faith, knowledge, affection, and kindles them to the exercise of the Christian virtues


3) what is due to grace
a) the spiritual condition of one governed by the power of divine grace
b) the token or proof of grace, benefit
1) a gift of grace
2) benefit, bounty


4) thanks, (for benefits, services, favours), recompense, reward

If we take definition 2:a of the merciful kindness by which God, exerting his holy influence upon souls, turns them to Christ, keeps, strengthens, increases them in Christian faith, knowledge, affection, and kindles them to the exercise of the Christian virtues

we can ask, how does God extend His merciful kindness and exert His holy influence upon souls, turning them to Christ. How does He keep, strengthens, increase our faith, knowledge, affection and kindle us to the exercise of Christian virtues.

Certainly, not the Gospel but even those who preach it are means of God's saving grace. As Romans 10:13-15 states:
13 “ Whoever will call on the name of the Lord will be saved.†14 How then will they call on Him in whom they have not believed? How will they believe in Him whom they have not heard? And how will they hear without a preacher? 15 How will they preach unless they are sent? Just as it is written, “ How beautiful are the feet of those who bring good news of good things!â€


Obviously the Scriptures are a means of God's saving grace:

14You, however, continue in the things you have learned and become convinced of, knowing from whom you have learned them, 15 and that from childhood you have known the sacred writings which are able to give you the wisdom that leads to salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus. 16 All Scripture is inspired by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, for training in righteousness; 17 so that the man of God may be adequate, equipped for every good work. 2 Timothy 3


What I'm submitting here isn't the same old, tired and unending argument of does baptism itself save or is it a mere symbol.


I'm submitting that just like the Gospel, just like the Scriptures, baptism is also a means by which God extends His grace to us... and I think the Scripture that makes the clearest case for this is 2 Peter 3:21, but the texts from Romans 6 and Colossians 2 make a solid case for the important of baptism as a means of God's grace as well. Our baptism, the going down and coming up out of water is intrinsically linked to the death of the old man and the creation of the new.


How it works on God's side, I don't know and I don't think anyone does. But, that the Scriptures teaches us that it is, is clear.


And I'll repeat... We tend to look at baptism as a "work" we do...

We need to learn that when we are baptized, the one doing the work is God and God alone.
 
Again, those in Acts 2 who 'gladly received his word were baptised'.

In other words, when they were baptised, they were believers already, they were saved already, the new birth had occurred already.

They didn't get baptised to become believers.

They didn't get baptised to become saved.

They didn't get baptised to become born again.

Baptismal regeneration is nowhere taught in Scripture.

In Acts 2 they were baptised as believers. Like the Lord's Supper, baptism is an ordinance which is symbolically participated in by those who are believers in the Lord Jesus already.
 
farouk, I could agree wholeheartedly with you, if the Scriptures didn't spell out to us, clearly and in quite a few places more places than just Acts 2:41 that salvation is more than just "believe"...

...after all we do need to remember that the demons also believe.

Even Acts 2:41 doesn't teach us that it is a matter of just "believe"... Acts 2:41 states:

So then, those who had received his word were baptized; and that day there were added about three thousand souls.


Whose word? Peter's. Peter was preaching to them, sharing the gospel... and, what was this word that Peter preached to them that they gladly received?

Peter said to them, "Repent, and each of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins; and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. Acts 2:38

We need to "gladly received His word" not just one or two verses in the word, but the whole word, and His word includes this:

21 Corresponding to that, baptism now saves you— not the removal of dirt from the flesh, but an appeal to God for a good conscience—through the resurrection of Jesus Christ, 22 who is at the right hand of God, having gone into heaven, after angels and authorities and powers had been subjected to Him. 1 Peter 3

And this:

9 For in Him all the fullness of Deity dwells in bodily form, 10 and in Him you have been made complete, and He is the head over all rule and authority; 11 and in Him you were also circumcised with a circumcision made without hands, in the removal of the body of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ; 12 having been buried with Him in baptism, in which you were also raised up with Him through faith in the working of God, who raised Him from the dead. Colossians 2

And this:

"He who has believed and has been baptized shall be saved; but he who has disbelieved shall be condemned.



Keep in mind here, I'm not saying that one can be baptized and not believe and be saved... That's contrary to God's word.

Nor am I saying that if one is never baptized, one can never be saved... We know that God's grace can extend to those who, by no fault of their own, were never baptized... an atheist who received the gospel right before battle and was killed. A person going to their church's prerequisite class on baptism and is involved in a fatal accident.

God's grace will always cover those who willingly receive His word, even if they aren't able to obey it because of crises situations...

But, baptism for believers is the norm... It is what God commands us to do.

Why would we not do it?

 
Look, I will make it easy. Jesus Christ himself, the word made flesh. The best of us and the pure example of without sin was baptized right? So I don't see the reason why all the confusion of is it necessary or not.

Handy this part: Keep in mind here, I'm not saying that one can be baptized and not believe and be saved... That's contrary to God's word.

Nor am I saying that if one is never baptized, one can never be saved... We know that God's grace can extend to those who, by no fault of their own, were never baptized... an atheist who received the gospel right before battle and was killed. A person going to their church's prerequisite class on baptism and is involved in a fatal accident.

God's grace will always cover those who willingly receive His word, even if they aren't able to obey it because of crises situations...

But, baptism for believers is the norm... It is what God commands us to do.

You are indeed blessed.
 
Simply put, yes. Babies get baptized. Do they know why? Nope, it is the parents or guardians faith in action. But it is faith in action for the child and blessed in the name of Jesus Christ nonetheless.
However if someone coverts to another faith as an adult then yes a 2nd baptism is required.

Babies do not get baptized. They are 'sprinkled' with water, so-called 'holy water' (where does that idea come from, I wonder).

The pre-requisite of baptism is belief: He that believeth AND is baptized shall be saved. No baby believes, and we should not pretend that there is any scriptural significance or merit in the practice.
 
Again, those in Acts 2 who 'gladly received his word were baptised'.

In other words, when they were baptised, they were believers already, they were saved already, the new birth had occurred already.

John 3:5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

They didn't get baptised to become believers.
True. He that believeth AND is baptised shall be saved.

They didn't get baptised to become saved.
No? So why did they get baptised?

They didn't get baptised to become born again.
John 3:5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, [note the order] he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.
Baptismal regeneration is nowhere taught in Scripture.
John 3:3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.
John 3:7 Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.

How?

5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

In Acts 2 they were baptised as believers...
That's the right order. Jesus agrees with that: He that believeth and is baptised shall be saved...

PS Nice to be in full agreement with you Handy...
 
For salvation you need to be baptised as many times as you need to be circumcised....0 times.

It is desirable to be baptised but not mandatory for salvation.
 
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Asnycritus - I find in very interesting that you totally disregarded my the statement of Jesus himself being baptized.
 
For salvation you need to be baptised as many times as you need to be circumcised....0 times.

It is desirable to be baptised but not mandatory for salvation.

Good point.
I would only add that according to scripture, to those called or described as Christians, it is normative that they all were baptized.

Why do we, as Christians divide things up into logical boxes and arguments? This whole idea of being baptized as a mandatory step to salvation breeds the same ridged mentality that hedges salvation on our own works and merits.

When I read the scriptures as stories of real people in real situations, I always see baptism as a response to the good news of the gospel of Christ. How in the world do we get from a response to a good thing to an argument over something being mandatory. Wait, let me guess... ritualistic mentality which causes us a mental checklist of things we must do. Go to church on Sunday. Check. Get baptized, Check. Tithe, Check. Boy am I a good person, sure do feel secure about going to heaven now. Glad I'm saved... never mind the wreck I'm in currently. Folks, salvation is as much about today as it is when you die and in that since, baptism is part of your salvation because every time you respond to the gospel, God opens one more door, heals one more heart, wipes away one more tear.

How on earth did we get to this point?
 
Chris wrote: "For salvation you need to be baptized as many times as you need to be circumcised---o times."

[edited by staff] "For in Jesus Christ neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision; but faith which worketh by love" Gal.5:6.

[edited by staff] Find where inspiration ever even HINTED something like: "For in Jesus Christ neither baptism availeth any thing, nor not being baptized; but faith which worketh by love." He can't do it now can any "faith only" advocates.

I challenge any "faith only" teacher on this forum to an honest discussion of this matter on the one-on-one.
 
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Salvation is by grace, though faith, not of works (Ephesians 2.8,9). Nothing about baptism there. It IS a symbol for believers, who thereby identify themselves publicly as Christians.

Love is the testing issue. (Rev. 3:16 cold hot or lukewarm?) Does one Love Christ or hate Him. (Matt. 6:24) And yes, any man can only be accountable for what he knows.(James 4:17) And some do not seem to know much? But it is the Lord's work to read that. In Dan. 12:1-4's last day knowledge, none on this site needs to be ignorant for long.

Baptism is the outword proof required of God to the world that death to the old carnal self's TOTAL BURIAL is needed for ones REQUIRED TESTIMONY as seen in Matt. 10:32-33! It is that completed! :);)

And NO, for the ignorant ones who gave up self as required in Acts.5:32, yet, still lived according to all that the Holy Spirit (Rom. 8:14) 'LED' them with, we find that they will have Eternal life because they found Christ through His NATURE! Rom. 2:14-15. (yet, see if you find where the Lord's 2 Cor. 3:3 required Epistle was located?) Most likely some do not even know what that EPISTLE Word means?

Why would one that now Loves Christ not get baptised if they can? one that 'now' Loves their creator & RE/CREATER??? 'i' think that this post answers that for most readers.

---Elijah
 
Baptism is not a requirement for salvation, but is an act of obedience to Christ.

Problem here is if being baptized is obedience, then not being baptized is disobedience, disobedience is sin and sin is why people are lost for God will have vengeance upon those who "obey not", 2 Thess 1:8. So if baptism is obedience, (which it is), then obedience makes it a requirement if for no other reason.
 
For salvation you need to be baptised as many times as you need to be circumcised....0 times.

It is desirable to be baptised but not mandatory for salvation.

The thief on the cross who repented wasn't baptised, yet faith was his path to paradise.
 
We are not saved by getting baptized. We can do many things with water...but the means to eternal salvation is not one of them.
 

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