Armed Teachers

[Lewis]

This is great this is fantastic' I absolutely love this. There should be more of this. They have my vote

video here
http://www.keyetv.co...ade-13742.shtml
It's not the idea of teachers carrying guns on campus or that the Texas Panhandle school is paying for the firearms. People are pausing because the new signs outside the schools warn would be criminals that the campus is armed. Shamrock Independent School District Superintendent Wes Beck ordered the eye catching signs in July when the school board voted to allow trained staffers to have guns on campus. Beck says staff members volunteer to take concealed handgun license classes before a school owned firearm is put in a classroom gun safe. But the new security features don't stop with the signs. The district also installed new security cameras, an intercom system, and bullet proof windows.

 

[Nick]

It's sad that it has to come down to this.

 

[TOG]

God has not given us a spirit of fear (II Tim. 1:7 NKJV)
​

According to a list of school shootings at Wikipedia, a total of 35 primary school children have died in 12 school shootings in the past 25 years. That's an average of one shooting every other year, with an average of 3 student deaths in each case. I think we would all agree that even one primary school student being shot to death is one too many, but aren't people over-reacting a bit? The only reason I can see for this type of reaction is fear, probably mostly as a result of the shooting at Sandy Hook Elementary School in December of last year. Statistically speaking, that was a fluke. With that one exception, no more than 5 primary school children have ever been killed in a single shooting incident since 1927, when a man set off a bomb that killed 38 children and 6 adults. Of course it's bad when something like this happens, but there's no reason to panic. Everybody needs to take a deep breath and calm down.

The TOG​

 

[th1b.taylor]

God has not given us a spirit of fear (II Tim. 1:7 NKJV)
​

According to a list of school shootings at Wikipedia, a total of 35 primary school children have died in 12 school shootings in the past 25 years. That's an average of one shooting every other year, with an average of 3 student deaths in each case. I think we would all agree that even one primary school student being shot to death is one too many, but aren't people over-reacting a bit? The only reason I can see for this type of reaction is fear, probably mostly as a result of the shooting at Sandy Hook Elementary School in December of last year. Statistically speaking, that was a fluke. With that one exception, no more than 5 primary school children have ever been killed in a single shooting incident since 1927, when a man set off a bomb that killed 38 children and 6 adults. Of course it's bad when something like this happens, but there's no reason to panic. Everybody needs to take a deep breath and calm down.

The TOG​

TOG, the problem is sleep and it is time to awaken. When I was stationed in the U.S. and when in Germany in the early sixties my gun only had rounds in it at the practice range and security was strict. After the range practice the ammo was removed and the guns secured in the armory. In South Vietnam my Machine Gun ammo was, permanently in the Ammo Tray with three thousand more under my and the Gunner's Seats. My .38 and my .357 were always on my person and my Rifle was within reach, we were at war.

Like it or not, it's time for us, particularly Christians, to realize that the Tribulation is about to begin, meaning that we are at War. For the American people not to take their Right to bear arms, now, is fool hardy. If we fail to protect our most valuable resource is shear stupidity.

 

[TOG]

TOG, the problem is sleep and it is time to awaken. When I was stationed in the U.S. and when in Germany in the early sixties my gun only had rounds in it at the practice range and security was strict. After the range practice the ammo was removed and the guns secured in the armory. In South Vietnam my Machine Gun ammo was, permanently in the Ammo Tray with three thousand more under my and the Gunner's Seats. My .38 and my .357 were always on my person and my Rifle was within reach, we were at war.

Like it or not, it's time for us, particularly Christians, to realize that the Tribulation is about to begin, meaning that we are at War. For the American people not to take their Right to bear arms, now, is fool hardy. If we fail to protect our most valuable resource is shear stupidity.

This isn't about the right to bare arms. It's about what the correct response should be to school shootings. Look at the statistics. An average of 4 primary school children get killed every 3 years. Own a gun if you want. Own many guns if you want. I'm not saying you can't or shouldn't do that. But the scope of this problem doesn't warrent arming every teacher in the country. What people have in their homes is their business. But I wouldn't want my kids going to school where there was an atmosphere of fear and with a loaded gun in the classroom. That's just asking for trouble. It's just a matter of time before some kid getst the gun or a teacher snaps and starts shooting.

The TOG

 

[th1b.taylor]

This isn't about the right to bare arms. It's about what the correct response should be to school shootings. Look at the statistics. An average of 4 primary school children get killed every 3 years. Own a gun if you want. Own many guns if you want. I'm not saying you can't or shouldn't do that. But the scope of this problem doesn't warrent arming every teacher in the country. What people have in their homes is their business. But I wouldn't want my kids going to school where there was an atmosphere of fear and with a loaded gun in the classroom. That's just asking for trouble. It's just a matter of time before some kid getst the gun or a teacher snaps and starts shooting.

The TOG

Essentially, what you just posted was that an average of 1.33 children murdered at school is acceptable and I said nothing about anyone's right to bear arms, that has been a given since the founding of the thirteen colonies and need never enter into any discussion. You are using the Liberal Media's favorite tactic here. You have no, real, case for your position, so you seek to slander me to shut me up. It won't work, I'm to hard headed for that.

If you want meaningful conversation, stick to the facts and do not spin what I have said. I know, you're going to counter with my saying that you said you approve of the murder of children but that is not true. What I said is fact because I have summarized what you said and you added baloney to my statement with your inserting Gun Rights. I killed people for a living for eight years and during that period of my life I witnessed the carnage of babies, children and women being murdered because their dads and husbands worked with or for us. The single death of one child or one woman is worth any measure we need to perform to prevent another death of these precious resources.

You are practically and biblically wrong. With the creation of man, followed by the creation of the woman, God set a pattern and when Eve ate from the tree, it did not have nearly the effect that it did when the man failed to protect his wife. And like it or not, we are responsible to God for what wefail to do, just, as much as for what we do.

 

[Christ_empowered]

This scares me. Armed teachers? Schools are turning into prisons.

 

[TOG]

Essentially, what you just posted was that an average of 1.33 children murdered at school is acceptable

I never said nor implied any such thing.

I think we would all agree that even one primary school student being shot to death is one too many

How do you get from that that I think it's acceptable? Isn't misrepresenting what other members have said against the TOS? What I said was that the reaction should be in keeping with the size of the problem. People are over-reacting because of unfounded fear. School children are more likely to be run over by a car on their way to or from school than they are to be shot while in class.

and I said nothing about anyone's right to bear arms

Didn't you?

For the American people not to take their Right to bear arms, now, is fool hardy.

You are using the Liberal Media's favorite tactic here.

And you're using the far right's favorite tactic. If you don't have support for your views, throw mud at your opponent and hope that some will stick. Sorry, none of it stuck to me.

You have no, real, case for your position, so you seek to slander me to shut me up.

No, as I showed above with quotes from your own posts as well as mine, you're the one doing that.

I'm to hard headed

I'm glad you can admit it. That's the first step to doing something about it.

If you want meaningful conversation, stick to the facts

If you look over the thread, you'll see that I was the first one to actually bring up the facts.

and do not spin what I have said.

So whatever you wish that others would do to you, do also to them (Matt. 7:12 ESV)​

I know, you're going to counter with my saying that you said you approve of the murder of children

Why would I say that? No such thing entered my mind. But I guess you know what I'm thinking better than I do.

I killed people for a living for eight years

That must have been an interesting job. I lived near a Naval Air base for many years and got to know many people in the Navy and Air Force. None of them killed people for a living. Some had never killed anyone at all. Even those who had been in combat wouldn't have described their job that way.

You are practically and biblically wrong.

I am factually correct. I provided a link so you can look it up yourself. As for being biblically wrong, do you have a chapter and verse to support that accusation?

With the creation of man, followed by the creation of the woman

Followed by the creation of the gun?

God set a pattern and when Eve ate from the tree, it did not have nearly the effect that it did when the man failed to protect his wife. And like it or not, we are responsible to God for what wefail to do, just, as much as for what we do.

Are you accusing me of not protecting my family? Do you know anything at all about me or my family? What do you base these implications on?

The TOG​

 

[Sandy Zalecki]

Why are guns even a discussion as a Christian? Don't we already have a protector? Are the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit not enough protection for us? It is really said that since I went to school things have changed so much. We had no guns, detectors, or fences. Every one went freely without fear. What has changed is the hearts of men because we don't have any form of morality anymore. The only way to get it back is revival. Why don't we talk about revival instead of guns?

 

[jasoncran]

TOG. that is what soldiers get paid to do kill. we aren't paid not to kill but do what is needed to win the war. I didn't have to shoot the enemy the situation never arised where I had to. thankfully but in nam that was the nature of war. I am a vet of Afghanistan. I did carry rounds and had what I call 240 reasons not to screw with me. 210 reasons were of the 5.56 type and the other 30 reasons were of the 9mm type.

what tbi just described is also what I saw. the locals helping us and their kids dying for it. statistically speaking the potus and congress shouldn't be protected by arms. how many of them have been killed since the founding of the nation ? less then 10. yet you failed to mention that fact. Im all for them and the schools being protected. if a gun bothers you in school then why are cops in schools here in my county and have been for years.they are paid to live (armed) on school property as guards. they have full arresting authority.

 

[stovebolts]

Why are guns even a discussion as a Christian? Don't we already have a protector? Are the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit not enough protection for us? It is really said that since I went to school things have changed so much. We had no guns, detectors, or fences. Every one went freely without fear. What has changed is the hearts of men because we don't have any form of morality anymore. The only way to get it back is revival. Why don't we talk about revival instead of guns?

I like that approach! Somebody said we should focus on better education for gun saftey, and I found myself in agreement with them.

I heard a speaker once say, "Why do we spend so much time blaming the darkness from being dark? That's what it is! How much better could we be if we asked why the light wasn't shining as bright as it could!"

 

[JPPT1974]

It is how you use the gun. And not abuse it. Despite the fact I despise guns in real life.

 

[TOG]

In post #10, jasoncran said:

statistically speaking the potus and congress shouldn't be protected by arms. how many of them have been killed since the founding of the nation ? less then 10. yet you failed to mention that fact

(Sorry, the Quote feature doesn't seem to be working for me right now.)

I didn't mention the president because we weren't talking about him. We were talking about elementary school kids. But since you bring it up, let's look at the statistics.

Number of primary school (grades 1-6) in the US: Approx. 27,000,000
Number of deaths from school shootings / year: 1.33
Probability of any given primary school child being shot in a given year: 0.000005%
Probability of any given primary school child being shot while in 1st - 6th grade: 0.00003%

Number of presidents: 44
Number of presidents that have been the target of attempted assassinations: 19
Number of assassination attempts that were successful: 4
Probability of any given president being the target of an attempted assassination: 43%
Probability of any given president being assassinated: 9%

Nine percent of US presidents have been assassinated. People have tried to kill nearly half of all US presidents. Some have had multiple attempts on their lives. Four threats have been made on Obama's life and 2 actual attempts have been made to kill him. So, what was this you were saying about the president not needing protection?

Source for assassinations: Wikipedia
Source for number of school children: The Census Bureau's website is down due to the government shutdown. I took statistics from Europe and assumed an approximately equal proportion of children for the US
Source for school shootings: Wikipedia

The TOG​

 

[jasoncran]

did statistic include stabbbings? a knife, stick will meet lethal force from a cop. yet you want cops to be around a potus with 9% but not kids.yet in my hood comparatively. there was a stabbing of two teens. none over the age 15. lets be real kids in the big cities will see more crap outside school then in school and sometimes as much. theres is little the government can do to stop that.if by having an armed cop with tasers, oc spray and gun is so bad then why has my county done this for over ten years?!!!!!!!!!!!!!did it ever occur to you that schools have been closed for:
bomb threats(the day after sandy hook all schools in my county closed from such a threat and were for two days), threats of violence?

ah yes this site does show it

http://www.cnbc.com/id/36267223

im old enough to remember the hunters bringing their rifles to school in the parking lot with ammo in the chamber or in the truck and talking about hunting. that sir was in 1991 and earlier.its the culture of violence that has changed the nation not the gun. the gun is the means which the former says.

 

[th1b.taylor]

TOG,
You're spoiling for a fight and that is not acceptable. You are pulling my post apart and attacking, not discussing, the fragments out of context. When I was an Atheist, I was, quite, good at making Christians "Crawfish" by doing this. You are fathering confusion by doing this and that is not Christ-like behavior.

You need to bow your head and pray for God's guidance before you post. Your position is not based on scripture and the Final Court of Arbitration until Jesus returns is the Word of God. As I said, if you wish to discuss, I will, but as long as you act like the World, I will not do more than to comment on your actions and their origin.

 

[th1b.taylor]

Why are guns even a discussion as a Christian? Don't we already have a protector? Are the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit not enough protection for us? It is really said that since I went to school things have changed so much. We had no guns, detectors, or fences. Every one went freely without fear. What has changed is the hearts of men because we don't have any form of morality anymore. The only way to get it back is revival. Why don't we talk about revival instead of guns?

Hello Sandy,
I'm sorry our first exchange is one of contention but it seems we are at odds. The LORD God is indeed our final protection but He has placed us here to manage the world, not to bow down to it. The sad truth is that, as I said, I believe, the Tribulation is near and, for the last two thousand years, we have witnessed the advancement of evil and as Christians, we are the LORD's Army, here, on the Earth.

Your position has arisen inside the Church because the Church, by and large, has abandoned the study of the whole Bible and so many have fallen into or deathly close to heresy with the unscriptural New Testament and New Covenant movements. Jesus, Paul/Saul, Peter and the others taught from the same Bible, the one Christians, today, mistakenly call the Old Testament.

In fact it has been my position, for years now, that the New Testament is the only God Ordained Life Application Commentary on the Bible, the first thirty-nine books of the Christian Bible. When we study or when we read the entire book, in context, we find the truth and the truth is that God has not called for us to sacrifice, even one of our children to the minions of Satan. We are, indeed, called to resist them, without fear, to the point of the death of our natural bodies.

 

[th1b.taylor]

TOG. that is what soldiers get paid to do kill. we aren't paid not to kill but do what is needed to win the war. I didn't have to shoot the enemy the situation never arised where I had to. thankfully but in nam that was the nature of war. I am a vet of Afghanistan. I did carry rounds and had what I call 240 reasons not to screw with me. 210 reasons were of the 5.56 type and the other 30 reasons were of the 9mm type.

what tbi just described is also what I saw. the locals helping us and their kids dying for it. statistically speaking the potus and congress shouldn't be protected by arms. how many of them have been killed since the founding of the nation ? less then 10. yet you failed to mention that fact. Im all for them and the schools being protected. if a gun bothers you in school then why are cops in schools here in my county and have been for years.they are paid to live (armed) on school property as guards. they have full arresting authority.

Amen!

 

[Mike S]

This isn't about the right to bare arms. It's about what the correct response should be to school shootings. Look at the statistics. An average of 4 primary school children get killed every 3 years. Own a gun if you want. Own many guns if you want. I'm not saying you can't or shouldn't do that. But the scope of this problem doesn't warrent arming every teacher in the country. What people have in their homes is their business. But I wouldn't want my kids going to school where there was an atmosphere of fear and with a loaded gun in the classroom. That's just asking for trouble. It's just a matter of time before some kid getst the gun or a teacher snaps and starts shooting.

The TOG

This article isn't about arming every teacher in America, it's about how one school district is dealing with the issue of security. Personally, I like the idea of teachers being armed, but I don't think anyone is advocating arming every teacher in America.

 

[TOG]

TOG,
You're spoiling for a fight and that is not acceptable.

What?!? That's ridiculous! I'm the only one in this thread that has asked people to calm down. If you call that "spoiling for a fight", then you have a problem.

The TOG

 

[TOG]

This article isn't about arming every teacher in America, it's about how one school district is dealing with the issue of security. Personally, I like the idea of teachers being armed, but I don't think anyone is advocating arming every teacher in America.

I was lurking here for quite a while before I became a member, and I have seen that advocated right here on this forum. I don't remember who it was, but it was shortly after the shooting at Sandy Hook.But if we ignore that and just look at this thread, then even though the article doesn't specifically state that all teachers in the country should be armed, both the article and people's reaction to it imply that that is the correct response.

The TOG​