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Bible Study What is Christianity and what do Christians believe?

M

Maria222

Member
What is Christianity and what do Christians believe?

Answer: 1 Corinthians 15:1-4 says, “Moreover, brethren, I declare to you the gospel which I preached to you, which also you received and in which you stand, by which also you are saved, if you hold fast that word which I preached to you—unless you believed in vain.
For I delivered to you first of all that which I also received: that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures, and that He was buried, and that He rose again the third day according to the Scriptures.”
Note: if you hold fast that word which I preached to you—unless you believed in vain. If you obey that word which I preached to you—unless you believed in vain.
Some people believe in vain. They do not implement the new commands/the new laws of Christ! They live in sins and immorality! They do not live a holy life! They believe in vain. Only a small remnant will be saved! All other christians will be in hell for sins and immorality which commit all sinners too. Only the righteous Christians will inherit the Kingdom of God. God does not need pedos or gays or immoral men in His Kingdom!

Christ died for our sins according to what was written in the Bible.
In short, this is the Christian belief. God forgives our sins through our repentance to live a holy life. If we will continue to be pedos or to live with lovers or to smoke and to watch porn like unbelievers, we will be in hell! Do not be deceived:
The unrighteous do not inherit the Kingdom of God.
So, the grace is conditional!

Remember very well: salvation is conditional. The righteous can die spiritually by turning to evil (Ezekiel 33:18).
If they have escaped the corruption of the world by knowing our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ and are again entangled in it and overcome, they are worse off at the end than they were at the beginning. It would have been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than to have known it and then to turn their backs on the sacred command that was passed on to them. Of them the proverbs are true: "A dog returns to its vomit," and, "A sow that is washed goes back to her wallowing in the mud."

There are no Christian drunks, Christian adulterers, Christian liars, Christian thiefs, Christian pedos or Christian smokers/drunkards/drug addicts etc. in Christianity!

Hence, people need to get saved and stay saved, which often doesn't happen! Sin not only defiles, it can bring a righteous person to his spiritual death. To be worthy of Jesus, you must place him first in your life (even before your family), take up your cross and follow Jesus. Only the followers of Jesus possess eternal life. The sooner people know these things the better it will be for them and those they will influence. Please guard your SOUL as your most valuable possession!

Christians also believe that God is a one group of Three Supreme Beings: the Father, the Son (Jesus Christ), and the Holy Spirit. And each one of them is a God too.
Christians believe that the Son of God died on the cross, and He was buried, but rose from the dead, and now sits at the right hand of the Father, as an intercessor for mankind (not any dead woman, Mary, can do that!!! It is an idolatry in Catholicism). And idolworshipers (i.e. all catholics) do not inherit the Kingdom of God.

Christianity declares that Christ's death on the cross was sufficient to fully pay the price for sins, and that through His death God was reconciled with man and restored His relationship with him.

In order to be saved, we must repent, abandon or sins, lovers, smoking, put our trust and faith in God and His salvation on the cross for us.
Salvation is not the freedom to do what you want. Salvation is freedom from the sinful nature and crimes to be a holy man of God. Only the righteous people will inherit the Kingdom of God. If you do not live a holy life, you have the dead faith of demons instead of Christianity because they also believe that God exists but they disobey Him living in crimes/sins. Remember also that the rich will not inherit the Kingdom of Heaven too!
This is true Christianity based on the Bible and its teachings.
 
Don't Run Ahead or Become A Friend Of This World!

"Anyone who runs ahead and does not continue in the teaching of Christ does not have God; whoever continues in the teaching has both the Father and the Son. "(2 John 1:9)

"You adulterous people, don't you know that friendship with the world is hatred toward God? Anyone who chooses to be a friend of the world becomes an enemy of God."(James 4:4)

Christians can wander away, fall away, turn away, etc. Hence, we are often given hell warnings, warnings about the lethal power of sin, false teachers, false prophets, a false gospel, persecution, the cares and pleasures of this life, etc.

Hold on to what you have! For the "once saved, always saved" false teachers, heretics to say there is nothing to hold on to (as Charles Stanley says) might suggest they don't have anything from God, including real salvation!

Repent, turn to God in prayer, abandon your lovers, leave remarried adulterous spouses in adultareous marriages as they are forbidden by God, give up smoking and intoxication, or perish.
Amen
 
The Dwelling Place of God and the New Jerusalem

Remember that this new reality not all people will experience. We all can see this New World created by God when we read God's revelations in the Holy Bible. But only a small remnant will be saved. God needs only holy people in His dwelling place. He does not need drunkards, smokers, drug addicts, pedophiles, immoral and remarried adultareous people, liars, abusers, rapists, violent people, gays, swindlers, killers.

We all could see today this tremendous reality of what God prepared and His new creation of heaven and earth. But to enter His dwelling place you should believe in His Son and bring Him glory by your holy life and righteousness.

"And I heard a loud voice from the throne saying, “Look! God’s dwelling place is now among the people, and he will dwell with them. They will be his people, and God himself will be with them and be their God. ‘He will wipe every tear from their eyes. There will be no more death’ or mourning or crying or pain, for the old order of things has passed away.”
He who was seated on the throne said, “I am making everything new!” Then he said, “Write this down, for these words are trustworthy and true.”
He said to me: “It is done. I am the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End. To the thirsty I will give water without cost from the spring of the water of life. Those who are victorious will inherit all this, and I will be their God and they will be my children. But the cowardly, the unbelieving, the vile, the murderers, the sexually immoral, those who practice magic arts, the idolaters and all liars—they will be consigned to the fiery lake of burning sulfur. This is the second death.”

"...the time is near. Let the one who does wrong continue to do wrong; let the vile person continue to be vile; let the one who does right continue to do right; and let the holy person continue to be holy.”
"“Look, I (the Son of God) am coming soon! My reward is with me, and I will give to each person according to what they have done. I am the Alpha and the Omega, the First and the Last, the Beginning and the End.
“Blessed are those who wash their robes, that they may have the right to the tree of life and may go through the gates into the city. Outside are the dogs, those who practice magic arts, the sexually immoral, the murderers, the idolaters and everyone who loves and practices falsehood."

"He who testifies to these things says, “Yes, I am coming soon.”
Amen. Come, Lord Jesus.
The grace of the Lord Jesus be with God’s people. Amen."
 
Maria222 said:
give up smoking and intoxication, or perish.
Click to expand...

Maria222 said:
He does not need drunkards, smokers,
Click to expand...

Maria222 said:
“Blessed are those who wash their robes, that they may have the right to the tree of life and may go through the gates into the city. Outside are the dogs, those who practice magic arts, the sexually immoral, the murderers, the idolaters and everyone who loves and practices falsehood."
Click to expand...
Would practicing a falsehood be telling us smokers are condemned by God's word ?

If you don't answer I will have my answer .
 
Simple answer, A christian is suppose to be Christ like in all their ways.

Col 3:1 If ye then be risen with Christ, seek those things which are above, where Christ sitteth on the right hand of God.
Col 3:2 Set your affection on things above, not on things on the earth.
Col 3:3 For ye are dead, and your life is hid with Christ in God.
Col 3:4 When Christ, who is our life, shall appear, then shall ye also appear with him in glory.
Col 3:5 Mortify therefore your members which are upon the earth; fornication, uncleanness, inordinate affection, evil concupiscence, and covetousness, which is idolatry:
Col 3:6 For which things' sake the wrath of God cometh on the children of disobedience:
Col 3:7 In the which ye also walked some time, when ye lived in them.
Col 3:8 But now ye also put off all these; anger, wrath, malice, blasphemy, filthy communication out of your mouth.
Col 3:9 Lie not one to another, seeing that ye have put off the old man with his deeds;
Col 3:10 And have put on the new man, which is renewed in knowledge after the image of him that created him:
Col 3:11 Where there is neither Greek nor Jew, circumcision nor uncircumcision, Barbarian, Scythian, bond nor free: but Christ is all, and in all.
Col 3:12 Put on therefore, as the elect of God, holy and beloved, bowels of mercies, kindness, humbleness of mind, meekness, longsuffering;
Col 3:13 Forbearing one another, and forgiving one another, if any man have a quarrel against any: even as Christ forgave you, so also do ye.
Col 3:14 And above all these things put on charity, which is the bond of perfectness.
Col 3:15 And let the peace of God rule in your hearts, to the which also ye are called in one body; and be ye thankful.
Col 3:16 Let the word of Christ dwell in you richly in all wisdom; teaching and admonishing one another in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing with grace in your hearts to the Lord.
Col 3:17 And whatsoever ye do in word or deed, do all in the name of the Lord Jesus, giving thanks to God and the Father by him.
 
Maria222 said:
What is Christianity and what do Christians believe?
Click to expand...
Why do people believe that there interpretation is the only correct interpretation?

Jesus dealt with many people durring his ministry yet those he was harsh towards were always those who thought they knew the answers and had no compassion towards the lost.

Do you really believe that the drunkard who has trusted in Jesus is lost because he fell off the wagon?
Do you think that Job, Abraham, Boaz, Nicodemus to name a few biblical rich men will not be in heaven?
You started by saying we are saved by faith in Jess, yet ended by saying faith doesn't matter it whether we are poor that saves, ( no rich in heaven )
May I remind you we are fabulously wealthy when compared to the third world, so are you saved?
 
Maria222 said:
Hence, people need to get saved and stay saved, which often doesn't happen!
Click to expand...

If you maintain your salvation, then you are necessarily and co-Savior with Jesus Christ. This is a blasphemous false Gospel. There is only one Savior and his salvation of us is perfect and complete, requiring nothing from us to make it more so, or to retain it. See John 14:6, Acts 4:12, 1 Timothy 2:5, and 1 John 5:11-13. Read Ephesians 1:1-13, Ephesians 2:8-9, Titus 3:5-8, and 2 Timothy 1:9.

Imagine you're drowning, going down beneath the water's surface for the last time, and suddenly strong hands grip your wrists and heave you out of the water into a boat. You're saved! If you'd been left to save yourself, you'd have died for sure! You lay in the bottom of the boat, catching your breath and recovering your strength, deeply grateful to your brown-skinned savior sitting next to you for his rescue. After five minutes or so, though, the strong hands that saved you grip you again and toss you overboard. You're back in the water, sputtering and thrashing wildly, terrified. A voice calls out, "I've saved you, but now it's up to you to stay saved. Don't waste what I did for you! Keep your head above water!" But if you were able to do so, you wouldn't have needed saving in the first place! In moments, you sink below the waves and drown.

This is, it seems to me, essentially what folks who believe they must maintain or retain their salvation are thinking about their Savior and his salvation of them. It's horrible. And deeply unbiblical.

1 Corinthians 1:26-31
26 For consider your calling, brethren, that there were not many wise according to the flesh, not many mighty, not many noble;
27 but God has chosen the foolish things of the world to shame the wise, and God has chosen the weak things of the world to shame the things which are strong,
28 and the base things of the world and the despised God has chosen, the things that are not, so that He may nullify the things that are,
29 so that no man may boast before God.
30 But by His doing you are in Christ Jesus, who became to us wisdom from God, and righteousness and sanctification, and redemption,
31 so that, just as it is written, "LET HIM WHO BOASTS, BOAST IN THE LORD."

Acts 4:12
12 "And there is salvation in no one else [but Jesus Christ]; for there is no other name under heaven that has been given among men by which we must be saved."

Colossians 2:9-10
9 For in Him [Jesus Christ] all the fullness of Deity dwells in bodily form,
10 and in Him you have been made complete, and He is the head over all rule and authority;

Colossians 2:13
13 When you were dead in your transgressions and the uncircumcision of your flesh, He made you alive together with Him, having forgiven us all our transgressions,
 
do you believe in OSAS? what is your best understanding of OSAS?
Tenchi said:
If you maintain your salvation, then you are necessarily and co-Savior with Jesus Christ. This is a blasphemous false Gospel. There is only one Savior and his salvation of us is perfect and complete, requiring nothing from us to make it more so, or to retain it. See John 14:6, Acts 4:12, 1 Timothy 2:5, and 1 John 5:11-13. Read Ephesians 1:1-13, Ephesians 2:8-9, Titus 3:5-8, and 2 Timothy 1:9.

Imagine you're drowning, going down beneath the water's surface for the last time, and suddenly strong hands grip your wrists and heave you out of the water into a boat. You're saved! If you'd been left to save yourself, you'd have died for sure! You lay in the bottom of the boat, catching your breath and recovering your strength, deeply grateful to your brown-skinned savior sitting next to you for his rescue. After five minutes or so, though, the strong hands that saved you grip you again and toss you overboard. You're back in the water, sputtering and thrashing wildly, terrified. A voice calls out, "I've saved you, but now it's up to you to stay saved. Don't waste what I did for you! Keep your head above water!" But if you were able to do so, you wouldn't have needed saving in the first place! In moments, you sink below the waves and drown.

This is, it seems to me, essentially what folks who believe they must maintain or retain their salvation are thinking about their Savior and his salvation of them. It's horrible. And deeply unbiblical.

1 Corinthians 1:26-31
26 For consider your calling, brethren, that there were not many wise according to the flesh, not many mighty, not many noble;
27 but God has chosen the foolish things of the world to shame the wise, and God has chosen the weak things of the world to shame the things which are strong,
28 and the base things of the world and the despised God has chosen, the things that are not, so that He may nullify the things that are,
29 so that no man may boast before God.
30 But by His doing you are in Christ Jesus, who became to us wisdom from God, and righteousness and sanctification, and redemption,
31 so that, just as it is written, "LET HIM WHO BOASTS, BOAST IN THE LORD."

Acts 4:12
12 "And there is salvation in no one else [but Jesus Christ]; for there is no other name under heaven that has been given among men by which we must be saved."

Colossians 2:9-10
9 For in Him [Jesus Christ] all the fullness of Deity dwells in bodily form,
10 and in Him you have been made complete, and He is the head over all rule and authority;

Colossians 2:13
13 When you were dead in your transgressions and the uncircumcision of your flesh, He made you alive together with Him, having forgiven us all our transgressions,
Click to expand...
 
KV-44-v1 said:
do you believe in OSAS? what is your best understanding of OSAS?
Click to expand...

Yes.

Who saves us?

Jesus - John 14:6; Acts 4:12; 1 Timothy 2:5.


By what means did Jesus secure our salvation?

His Atonement at Calvary - Hebrews 9-10:22; 2 Corinthians 7:21; Colossians 1:20-22.


Can our salvation be undone?

No - Hebrews 13:5; Romans 8:35-39; John 10:27-29.


Do our good works contribute to our salvation?

No - Ephesians 2:8-9; Titus 3:5-8; 2 Timothy 1:9; Romans 10:9-10; John 3:16.


Can a saint of God, sin?

Yes - 1 Corinthians 3, 5,6,11; Romans 6:1-3; Galatians 3:1-3; 1 John 1:8-10; 2:1; Revelation 2-3, etc..
 
Tenchi said:
Yes.

Who saves us?

Jesus - John 14:6; Acts 4:12; 1 Timothy 2:5.


By what means did Jesus secure our salvation?

His Atonement at Calvary - Hebrews 9-10:22; 2 Corinthians 7:21; Colossians 1:20-22.


Can our salvation be undone?

No - Hebrews 13:5; Romans 8:35-39; John 10:27-29.


Do our good works contribute to our salvation?

No - Ephesians 2:8-9; Titus 3:5-8; 2 Timothy 1:9; Romans 10:9-10; John 3:16.


Can a saint of God, sin?

Yes - 1 Corinthians 3, 5,6,11; Romans 6:1-3; Galatians 3:1-3; 1 John 1:8-10; 2:1; Revelation 2-3, etc..
Click to expand...
What about "great falling away"? Can't fall away if you aren't first saved.

we can sin as much as we want - and still be saved?? Ofc not.

OSAS is not grace, because grace is not a lisence to sin.
The wages of sin is death - so how can we still have eternal life?
Now you will probably say "but if you sin a bunch youre not saved!" but you admit that saints of God can sin.
And you will probably say that we will not want to sin after we are saved. But humans can be irrational.
if OSAS were legit, lucifer would not fall from Heaven. Why would God only apply OSAS to humans and not to angels?

Also, it seems like OSAS violates freewill.
"4 For it is impossible, in the case of those who have once been enlightened and have tasted of the heavenly gift and have been made partakers of the Holy Spirit, 5 and have tasted the good word of God and the powers of the age to come, 6 and then have fallen away, to restore them again to repentance, since they again crucify to themselves the Son of God and put Him to open shame. " Hebrews 6:4-6

Restore them AGAIN to repentance. So that means they were saved - BUT THEN fell away.

Repentance is a Gift from God. We must still be in a repentance mindset and avoid sin.

Hebrews 13:5 doesn't imply un-undoable salvation, even in context.

Romans 8:35-39 discusses God's Love - OSAS is not implied.
God never changes, so He will always love all humans. God loves sinners, too. But most sinners stay as sinners.

John 10:27-29
No ONE, not no SIN. No OSAS implied. A repentant Saint who keeps resisting sin will fulfill those verses. See Proverbs 24:16.
God hates sin, so why would He implement OSAS?

I don't see OSAS doctrine bearing any good fruit.
 
KV-44-v1 said:
What about "great falling away"? Can't fall away if you aren't first saved.
Click to expand...
One needs to definitively define "the great fall away". It follows that if OSAS is true then obviously the "great fall away" does not refer to those that have been saved.

KV-44-v1 said:
we can sin as much as we want - and still be saved??
Click to expand...
We all save "as much as we want" (desire) for we always comply with our greatest desire. Those in Christ have the Spirit dwelling in them and modifying their desires such as they follow Christ and thus they're greatest desire which they still follow is modified. , Ephesians 3:16-18

KV-44-v1 said:
OSAS is not grace, because grace is not a lisence to sin.
Click to expand...
OSAS is grace as God facilitates it. Grace is not a license to sin but this is a non sequitur. Once you get to heaven grace is extended to the point one does not sin.


KV-44-v1 said:
The wages of sin is death - so how can we still have eternal life?
Click to expand...
through faith in Christ, our penalty was imputed to Him.


KV-44-v1 said:
Now you will probably say "but if you sin a bunch youre not saved!" but you admit that saints of God can sin.
Click to expand...
True

KV-44-v1 said:
And you will probably say that we will not want to sin after we are saved.
Click to expand...
Our desire to sin is diminished. We are still in the flesh in which there is no good.


KV-44-v1 said:
But humans can be irrational.
Click to expand...
true


KV-44-v1 said:
if OSAS were legit, lucifer would not fall from Heaven.
Click to expand...
?????


KV-44-v1 said:
Why would God only apply OSAS to humans and not to angels?
Click to expand...
Scripture does not reveal the answer. Speculation: All humans came from Adam and some of Adam's traits are imputed to us whereas each angel is an individual and not related to other angels.
It would be illogical to infer a relationship....just like we don't assume frogs can be saved.


KV-44-v1 said:
Also, it seems like OSAS violates freewill.
Click to expand...
Freewill is a human invention; not found in scripture and violates logic (Law of Causality) and etc. etc. (Most people can't even define it.
 
KV-44-v1 said:
What about "great falling away"? Can't fall away if you aren't first saved.
Click to expand...

From what might one fall away? It is, in my experience, assumed that "falling away" MUST mean from salvation. I think other passages - some of which I already noted to you - forbid such a reading in regards to a born-again person.

KV-44-v1 said:
we can sin as much as we want - and still be saved?? Ofc not.
Click to expand...

??? Did I write such a thing? No. In my experience, this Strawman of OSAS is a common "boogey man" held up by those who oppose OSAS and want to make fear of salvation-lost an important motivation for living as a Christian. I think 1 John 4:16-19 and 1 Corinthians 13:1-3 oppose such a motive very directly. It simply doesn't follow that if OSAS is true - which it is - that, therefore, the OSAS proponent is necessarily espousing licentiousness and antinomianism, and living like the devil themselves.

KV-44-v1 said:
OSAS is not grace, because grace is not a lisence to sin.
Click to expand...

No one I know of who holds to OSAS thinks that grace is a license to sin. I certainly don't.

KV-44-v1 said:
The wages of sin is death - so how can we still have eternal life?
Click to expand...

This doesn't apply to the person wholly redeemed, justified and sanctified in Jesus Christ (1 Corinthians 1:30), who, by him, has been made a "new creature in Christ" (2 Corinthians 5:17) and who has been "sealed" by the Holy Spirit as God's own (2 Corinthians 1:22; Ephesians 1:13; 4:30). Just read the rest of Romans 6:23:

23 For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.

KV-44-v1 said:
Now you will probably say "but if you sin a bunch youre not saved!" but you admit that saints of God can sin.
Click to expand...

??? No, I wouldn't say this at all. And I "admit" saints of God sin because this is plainly indicated in Scripture. See my last post to you.

KV-44-v1 said:
And you will probably say that we will not want to sin after we are saved.
Click to expand...

So long as the Holy Spirit is given control by the born-again believer. See "walking in the Spirit" in Galatians 5:16, 18, 25.

KV-44-v1 said:
if OSAS were legit, lucifer would not fall from Heaven. Why would God only apply OSAS to humans and not to angels?
Click to expand...

Because they are different creatures, made for different purposes, existing in different circumstances. Christ did not die on the cross for angels, only for humanity.

KV-44-v1 said:
Also, it seems like OSAS violates freewill.
Click to expand...

??? God made you the way you are without your agreement. He didn't seek your approval first before He decided to make you, either. He put you in a world that is entirely of His own design, seeking no contribution from you about the nature of that world. In fact, there are all sorts of God-established limits and constraints upon you that you did not choose. If you choose to jump off a high cliff without a safe means of descent, the Law of Gravity that God has instituted will remain in effect no matter what you might want, until you pancake fatally on the ground. If you refuse to make the effort to clean your bathroom, the God-ordained Law of Entropy will take effect no matter what you might want and your bathroom will degenerate into increasing disorder and filthiness until you clean it. In the same way, if you choose to trust in Christ as your Savior and yield to him as your Lord, the God-ordained salvation that results, will persist no matter what you might want. Clearly, having free agency doesn't preclude such circumstances.

KV-44-v1 said:
"4 For it is impossible, in the case of those who have once been enlightened and have tasted of the heavenly gift and have been made partakers of the Holy Spirit, 5 and have tasted the good word of God and the powers of the age to come, 6 and then have fallen away, to restore them again to repentance, since they again crucify to themselves the Son of God and put Him to open shame. " Hebrews 6:4-6

Restore them AGAIN to repentance. So that means they were saved - BUT THEN fell away.
Click to expand...

Once Enlightened

Hey Everyone: I have a Question: Could Hebrews 6:4 Mean that Someone Experiences and Feels the Holy Spirit and the Greatness of the Holy Spirit But Ends Up Rejecting and Not Letting Jesus to come into their life. Maybe Since they Experienced the Fullness of the Holy Ghost and then fell away...
christianforums.net

KV-44-v1 said:
Hebrews 13:5 doesn't imply un-undoable salvation, even in context.
Click to expand...

Yes, it does. And, by the way, mere contradiction is not a rebuttal of my views, or an argument for yours. It's just contradiction.

KV-44-v1 said:
Romans 8:35-39 discusses God's Love - OSAS is not implied.
Click to expand...

Yes, it is implied.

KV-44-v1 said:
God never changes, so He will always love all humans. God loves sinners, too. But most sinners stay as sinners.
Click to expand...

Read the passage and consider its larger context. Neither passage nor context support what you're saying here.

KV-44-v1 said:
John 10:27-29
No ONE, not no SIN. No OSAS implied. A repentant Saint who keeps resisting sin will fulfill those verses. See Proverbs 24:16.
Click to expand...

Nope. If you'd bothered to properly consider all that I cited from Scripture in support of OSAS, you would understand how facile a response this is.

KV-44-v1 said:
God hates sin, so why would He implement OSAS?
Click to expand...

If God hates sin, why doesn't He just toss every sinner directly into hell the moment they sin? If God hates sin, why did He send His Son to die in atonement for it?

KV-44-v1 said:
I don't see OSAS doctrine bearing any good fruit.
Click to expand...

This doesn't mean it isn't true.
 
Tenchi said:
From what might one fall away? It is, in my experience, assumed that "falling away" MUST mean from salvation. I think other passages - some of which I already noted to you - forbid such a reading in regards to a born-again person.
Click to expand...
Person, saved or unsaved.
Not animal.
I'm ignoring posts that are 'signed' with a picture of an animal. Doesn't have to be a person, but really now?
I replied to this post because the question is good to be answered (eventually) , even if some of the presumptions of faith are questionable.
 
Fastfredy0 said:
One needs to definitively define "the great fall away". It follows that if OSAS is true then obviously the "great fall away" does not refer to those that have been saved.
Click to expand...
Not necessarily. Early last century there was a great falling away in China, with over a million "Christians" (by count, not by actual faith one way or another) affected seriously (with death, or worse) ...
The pastors reportedly wept with tears and sorrow for they had lied to their congregations and the congregations were unprepared for the persecutions and executions.
 
KV-44-v1 said:
I don't see OSAS doctrine bearing any good fruit.
Click to expand...
I have not met anyone who thinks and shows that the doctrine of osas bears or results in anything good.
Many times we have seen disastrous results and loss of life probably (it looks like now).
-----------------------
KV-44-v1 said:
OSAS is not grace
Click to expand...
This is not unique to osas. Most religious / man-originated/ teachings are not of nor from grace.
KV-44-v1 said:
The wages of sin is death - so how can we still have eternal life?
Click to expand...
Not related to osas, but we can only have eternal life if God Grants it to us to be born again, and to stay/remain in Christ Jesus.
KV-44-v1 said:
if OSAS were legit, lucifer would not fall from Heaven. Why would God only apply OSAS to humans and not to angels?
Click to expand...
Unrelated to osas, ; angels cannot be saved - JESUS DIED FOR PEOPLE. Angels are either with God , or opposed to God, and by all that is known now, they cannot change.
KV-44-v1 said:
Also, it seems like OSAS violates freewill.
Click to expand...
Likely , and / or deceives many unto destruction ?
 
Fastfredy0 said:
One needs to definitively define "the great fall away". It follows that if OSAS is true then obviously the "great fall away" does not refer to those that have been saved.


We all save "as much as we want" (desire) for we always comply with our greatest desire. Those in Christ have the Spirit dwelling in them and modifying their desires such as they follow Christ and thus they're greatest desire which they still follow is modified. , Ephesians 3:16-18


OSAS is grace as God facilitates it. Grace is not a license to sin but this is a non sequitur. Once you get to heaven grace is extended to the point one does not sin.



through faith in Christ, our penalty was imputed to Him.



True


Our desire to sin is diminished. We are still in the flesh in which there is no good.



true



?????



Scripture does not reveal the answer. Speculation: All humans came from Adam and some of Adam's traits are imputed to us whereas each angel is an individual and not related to other angels.
It would be illogical to infer a relationship....just like we don't assume frogs can be saved.



Freewill is a human invention; not found in scripture and violates logic (Law of Causality) and etc. etc. (Most people can't even define it.
Click to expand...
You are using your freewill to argue against freewill. Self refuting.
How can freewill be a human construct?? its robotism that is.

And if theres no freewill, a killer could kill you and say "oh i dont have responsibility im a robot!!"
No-free-will-ism has dangerous fruits.

No, that would be your beliefs that violate logic. Why would God issue commands if we are robots? if we are robots, why was adam and eves sin so bad??
if we are robots, then there is no such thing as love.

Pretty much everyone realizes somehow that there is freewill. It is only later in life that they start believing they are robots.
So your assertion that FW is an "invention" of man is unwarranted and evidenceless.

Try using "they dont have freewill dont arrest them" in a court to defend someone who has been accused.
 
Fastfredy0 said:
One needs to definitively define "the great fall away". It follows that if OSAS is true then obviously the "great fall away" does not refer to those that have been saved.


We all save "as much as we want" (desire) for we always comply with our greatest desire. Those in Christ have the Spirit dwelling in them and modifying their desires such as they follow Christ and thus they're greatest desire which they still follow is modified. , Ephesians 3:16-18


OSAS is grace as God facilitates it. Grace is not a license to sin but this is a non sequitur. Once you get to heaven grace is extended to the point one does not sin.



through faith in Christ, our penalty was imputed to Him.



True


Our desire to sin is diminished. We are still in the flesh in which there is no good.



true



?????



Scripture does not reveal the answer. Speculation: All humans came from Adam and some of Adam's traits are imputed to us whereas each angel is an individual and not related to other angels.
It would be illogical to infer a relationship....just like we don't assume frogs can be saved.



Freewill is a human invention; not found in scripture and violates logic (Law of Causality) and etc. etc. (Most people can't even define it.
Click to expand...
You said "our desire". You accidentally confessed to human freewill!!

No, falling away, by definition, involves having been saved. So OSAS is false.
Do you believe that Christ's Spirit can dwell in robots , freewillless humans? (in your view)
No one can "come" to Christ if freewill is fake. Coming in that sense implies will.


Love is compulsory in your hollow, freewilless world. Thankfully, reality is much better.

I agree, OSAS and grace when trying to connect them, do not logically connect. One isnt the other.
 
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