Bible Study What is Christianity and what do Christians believe?

[Tenchi]

Person, saved or unsaved.
Not animal.

??? Says who? If you don't like my avatar, well, that's too bad. I like my gaping orangutan. Makes me laugh. I'm going to keep him.

I'm ignoring posts that are 'signed' with a picture of an animal. Doesn't have to be a person, but really now?

??? Yup. Really. You might have noticed that, online, people don't do just what you think they should.

I replied to this post because the question is good to be answered (eventually) , even if some of the presumptions of faith are questionable.

Uh huh.

 

[KV-44-v1]

From what might one fall away? It is, in my experience, assumed that "falling away" MUST mean from salvation. I think other passages - some of which I already noted to you - forbid such a reading in regards to a born-again person.



??? Did I write such a thing? No. In my experience, this Strawman of OSAS is a common "boogey man" held up by those who oppose OSAS and want to make fear of salvation-lost an important motivation for living as a Christian. I think 1 John 4:16-19 and 1 Corinthians 13:1-3 oppose such a motive very directly. It simply doesn't follow that if OSAS is true - which it is - that, therefore, the OSAS proponent is necessarily espousing licentiousness and antinomianism, and living like the devil themselves.



No one I know of who holds to OSAS thinks that grace is a license to sin. I certainly don't.



This doesn't apply to the person wholly redeemed, justified and sanctified in Jesus Christ (1 Corinthians 1:30), who, by him, has been made a "new creature in Christ" (2 Corinthians 5:17) and who has been "sealed" by the Holy Spirit as God's own (2 Corinthians 1:22; Ephesians 1:13; 4:30). Just read the rest of Romans 6:23:

23 For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.



??? No, I wouldn't say this at all. And I "admit" saints of God sin because this is plainly indicated in Scripture. See my last post to you.



So long as the Holy Spirit is given control by the born-again believer. See "walking in the Spirit" in Galatians 5:16, 18, 25.



Because they are different creatures, made for different purposes, existing in different circumstances. Christ did not die on the cross for angels, only for humanity.



??? God made you the way you are without your agreement. He didn't seek your approval first before He decided to make you, either. He put you in a world that is entirely of His own design, seeking no contribution from you about the nature of that world. In fact, there are all sorts of God-established limits and constraints upon you that you did not choose. If you choose to jump off a high cliff without a safe means of descent, the Law of Gravity that God has instituted will remain in effect no matter what you might want, until you pancake fatally on the ground. If you refuse to make the effort to clean your bathroom, the God-ordained Law of Entropy will take effect no matter what you might want and your bathroom will degenerate into increasing disorder and filthiness until you clean it. In the same way, if you choose to trust in Christ as your Savior and yield to him as your Lord, the God-ordained salvation that results, will persist no matter what you might want. Clearly, having free agency doesn't preclude such circumstances.

Once Enlightened

Hey Everyone: I have a Question: Could Hebrews 6:4 Mean that Someone Experiences and Feels the Holy Spirit and the Greatness of the Holy Spirit But Ends Up Rejecting and Not Letting Jesus to come into their life. Maybe Since they Experienced the Fullness of the Holy Ghost and then fell away...

christianforums.net

Yes, it does. And, by the way, mere contradiction is not a rebuttal of my views, or an argument for yours. It's just contradiction.



Yes, it is implied.



Read the passage and consider its larger context. Neither passage nor context support what you're saying here.



Nope. If you'd bothered to properly consider all that I cited from Scripture in support of OSAS, you would understand how facile a response this is.



If God hates sin, why doesn't He just toss every sinner directly into hell the moment they sin? If God hates sin, why did He send His Son to die in atonement for it?



This doesn't mean it isn't true.

Falling away from salvation. yes. https://www.gotquestions.org/great-falling-away.html

"and the one who remains in love remains in God,"
So yes, you need to REMAIN. Not "FALL AWAY". And yes, fear of loss probably should not be the no. 1 motivator.

Fear of losing salvation need not be such a big motivator. Just repent and go on. Get up when you have fallen.
And yes, sinful life can result from OSAS belief.

Again, falling away. We can revert back to old creature. Dog returning to vomit.
How can one RETURN to vomit, if they never left it??


No, neither imply OSAS. I don't see how you came to the belief that they do.

What am i saying here? that God loves sinners? Yes He does, otherwise He would not have bodily died for us.

It's not facile because I rebutted your support.

God hates sin itself. But He loves the sinNER. I know it can seem confusing but it is easy to untagle the confusion.

 

[Fastfredy0]

You are using your freewill to argue against freewill. Self refuting.

I don't have free will .... so your statement is false unless you can prove I have free will.
....of course, you would have to define what you mean by free will as a foundation to discussion.

Why would God issue commands if we are robots?

You have to define robots and then show where in scripture it says we are not robots using your definition.

So your assertion that FW is an "invention" of man is unwarranted and evidenceless.

Study the Law of Causality (every effect has a cause) and get back to me.

Try using "they dont have freewill dont arrest them" in a court to defend someone who has been accused.

Laws are passed regardless of whether or not one has free will .... Free Will being something you have not defined.

You said "our desire". You accidentally confessed to human freewill!!

YOu have not define Free Will so your statement lacks clarity. I didn't say one does not have a will. Our desires and our will is the same thing. One has to define the adjective FREE in FREE WILL to give meaning to discussion.

No, falling away, by definition, involves having been saved.

"Falling Away" without an object to define what one is falling away from leads to confusion.

Do you believe that Christ's Spirit can dwell in robots , freewillless humans? (in your view)
No one can "come" to Christ if freewill is fake. Coming in that sense implies will.

Again, you didn't define FREE WILL. Everyone has a will and everyone comes to Christ via a WILL. Get to the crux of the matter ..... Define FREE in the term Free WILL to avoid confusion. .... then show where the bible says we have Free Will as you define it.

Love is compulsory in your hollow, freewilless world.

Another statement without foundation. Define LOVE .... look up AGAPE and get back to me

 

[KV-44-v1]

I don't have free will .... so your statement is false unless you can prove I have free will.
....of course, you would have to define what you mean by free will as a foundation to discussion.



You have to define robots and then show where in scripture it says we are not robots using your definition.



Study the Law of Causality (every effect has a cause) and get back to me.




Laws are passed regardless of whether or not one has free will .... Free Will being something you have not defined.



YOu have not define Free Will so your statement lacks clarity. I didn't say one does not have a will. Our desires and our will is the same thing. One has to define the adjective FREE in FREE WILL to give meaning to discussion.



"Falling Away" without an object to define what one is falling away from leads to confusion.


Again, you didn't define FREE WILL. Everyone has a will and everyone comes to Christ via a WILL. Get to the crux of the matter ..... Define FREE in the term Free WILL to avoid confusion. .... then show where the bible says we have Free Will as you define it.





Another statement without foundation. Define LOVE .... look up AGAPE and get back to me

Is freewill biblical or something the modern world invented ?

Free will, which proponents cannot/will not define as it is not biblical; Free Will would make the praying for others salvation a useless endeavor for it would violate the fictitious doctrine of Free Will by praying to God to override the persons Free Will. Assuming Free Will were true ... one...

christianforums.net

Read the entire thread- multiple people defined freewill multiple times.

https://imgur.com/FqKpT2e

 

[KV-44-v1]

I don't have free will .... so your statement is false unless you can prove I have free will.
....of course, you would have to define what you mean by free will as a foundation to discussion.



You have to define robots and then show where in scripture it says we are not robots using your definition.



Study the Law of Causality (every effect has a cause) and get back to me.




Laws are passed regardless of whether or not one has free will .... Free Will being something you have not defined.



YOu have not define Free Will so your statement lacks clarity. I didn't say one does not have a will. Our desires and our will is the same thing. One has to define the adjective FREE in FREE WILL to give meaning to discussion.



"Falling Away" without an object to define what one is falling away from leads to confusion.


Again, you didn't define FREE WILL. Everyone has a will and everyone comes to Christ via a WILL. Get to the crux of the matter ..... Define FREE in the term Free WILL to avoid confusion. .... then show where the bible says we have Free Will as you define it.





Another statement without foundation. Define LOVE .... look up AGAPE and get back to me

Yes you do. God created you with a soul. Your soul is not pre programmed.
And if we dont have freewill then why doesnt God control us to all serve Him??

I think you know what freewill means. You sure use it like you do. The game with "define freewill" will not work on me from here on. If you want to get others to believe that you are ignorant as to its meaning, i suggest not using it as if you do know it. But God tells us to NOT lie, so....

Where in Scripture DOES it say we are robots?? Robots: things without freewill.
Now you have your def, so the game is no longer an excuse with this term either.
Joshua 24:15 SINGLEHANDEDLY debunks robotism.

It is, by definition, IMPOSSIBLE to choose if you don't have freewill. I'd like to see you evade and dodge that verse.
Robotism: the belief that humans are freewilless robots.

the cause of our actions is our freewill!! You have fallen for a common fallacy. Just because freewill can be influenced and limited DOES NOT MEAN that it doesn't exist. I influenced what you posted, but that doesnt mean your posts dont exist!

To all "you didnt define freewill" instances, see above.

OH, so you admit that we CAN choose? and that we CAN control what we do??

You havent defined free, either.

 

[Fastfredy0]

Read the entire thread- multiple people defined freewill multiple times.

I read about free will ... various people have various definitions. Give me your definition. Should take less than 100 words. If you don't have a definition....just say so.

Yes you do. God created you with a soul. Your soul is not pre programmed.
And if we dont have freewill then why doesnt God control us to all serve Him??

Again, you refuse to define Free Will. *yawn*
Yet you ask questions that one cannot answer as you continue to lay the foundation of your questions.
Again... define FREE WILL, ROBOTS and LOVE *yawn*

I think you know what freewill means. You sure use it like you do. The game with "define freewill" will not work on me from here on. If you want to get others to believe that you are ignorant as to its meaning, i suggest not using it as if you do know it. But God tells us to NOT lie, so....

There libertarian free will, and Augustine's definition, there's definitions that make no sense that I won't expound upon, there self-determined Free Will.... then there's your refusal to answer the question.

Well, I tried... I won't waste more time.

 

[KV-44-v1]

I read about free will ... various people have various definitions. Give me your definition. Should take less than 100 words. If you don't have a definition....just say so.


Again, you refuse to define Free Will. *yawn*
Yet you ask questions that one cannot answer as you continue to lay the foundation of your questions.
Again... define FREE WILL, ROBOTS and LOVE *yawn*




There libertarian free will, and Augustine's definition, there's definitions that make no sense that I won't expound upon, there self-determined Free Will.... then there's your refusal to answer the question.

Well, I tried... I won't waste more time.

Already defined robots.

Freewill: We are free insofar as we are the primary determiner of our behavior.

Even if someone points a gun at you, you are still the primary determiner of your actions.

 

[Christian Saboteur]

Didn't Jesus drink vermented wine?,he turned water to wine.Where in scripture does it say that smoking is forbidden?,I'm not a smoker,I guess I'll google that.I am going to hell because on rare occasions I chew Levi Garrett tobacco?.Last night I dreamt that Pam Grier,or someone that looked liked Pam Grier was fully exposing and flaunting herself in front of me.I looked ,but I didn't touch,I'm a married man!,now what do I do?.How about Tattoos?,do you go to hell for those?,I see people in our church getting tattoos.There is a local tattoo shop here that is a Christian tattoo shop,ponder that.
A former co-worker and friend of mine,she is single with three children from a previous marriage.She is currently pregnant out of wed-lock with current boyfriend.Her work ethic was also below standard.She attends church,and espouses Jesus Christ,she is also dealing with emotional issues.What do you all think of this person,where does she fit in to God's plan?,is God being patient with her?.I initially was guilty of being judgemental of this person,being that I'm perfect like the rest of you here.But I'm having second thoughts now,I rescind my visions of this person being cast into the Lake of Fire,because God changes us from the inside,not from the outside.Pray for the person mentioned above.

 

[Tenchi]

Didn't Jesus drink vermented wine?

It's doubtful. And, if he did, only of a highly-diluted sort. No one of the Levitical priesthood was permitted to drink alcohol. No prophet of God in the OT drank alcohol. As our great High Priest, then (Hebrews 7:24-28), it is extremely unlikely that Jesus imbibed alcohol.

Where in scripture does it say that smoking is forbidden?

Nowhere. But should a believer engage in a non-essential behavior known to fatally-damage their body? Smoking is, essentially, a slow form of suicide. How is such a thing at all in keeping with what God intended in creating us?

I am going to hell because on rare occasions I chew Levi Garrett tobacco?.

No.

Last night I dreamt that Pam Grier,or someone that looked liked Pam Grier was fully exposing and flaunting herself in front of me.I looked ,but I didn't touch,I'm a married man!,now what do I do?

Well, you certainly don't rehearse the dream in your mind, that's for sure. Ask God to clear such things from your thinking, taking them captive to His authority and control. Then fix your thoughts upon Christ (2 Corinthians 10:3-5; Philippians 4:8; Hebrews 12:1-4).

How about Tattoos?,do you go to hell for those?,I see people in our church getting tattoos.There is a local tattoo shop here that is a Christian tattoo shop,ponder that.

There's nothing in the NT about not getting a tattoo. I wouldn't recommend one on your face, though. Those tattoos never look good.

What do you all think of this person,where does she fit in to God's plan?,is God being patient with her?.I initially was guilty of being judgemental of this person,being that I'm perfect like the rest of you here.But I'm having second thoughts now,I rescind my visions of this person being cast into the Lake of Fire,because God changes us from the inside,not from the outside.Pray for the person mentioned above.

Well, what does God's word say?

2 Peter 3:9
9 ...[the Lord] is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

Romans 5:20
20 ...but where sin increased, grace abounded all the more,

1 John 1:9
9 If we confess our sins, He is faithful and righteous to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

But also:

Titus 1:15-16
15 Unto the pure all things are pure: but unto them that are defiled and unbelieving is nothing pure; but even their mind and conscience is defiled.
16 They profess that they know God; but in works they deny him, being abominable, and disobedient, and unto every good work reprobate.

Matthew 7:16-20
16 "You will know them by their fruits. Grapes are not gathered from thorn bushes nor figs from thistles, are they?
17 "So every good tree bears good fruit, but the bad tree bears bad fruit.
18 "A good tree cannot produce bad fruit, nor can a bad tree produce good fruit.
19 "Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire.
20 "So then, you will know them by their fruits.

Hebrews 2:1-3
1 For this reason we must pay much closer attention to what we have heard, so that we do not drift away from it.
2 For if the word spoken through angels proved unalterable, and every transgression and disobedience received a just penalty,
3 how will we escape if we neglect so great a salvation? After it was at the first spoken through the Lord, it was confirmed to us by those who heard,