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  1. M

    Muscle And A Shovel

    I understand, Reba. Issues like these aren't very pleasant to talk about sometimes. But it's the most unpleasant conversations that are usually the most important (if conducted with gentleness and respect, of course). This book addresses vital, life-or-death, Heaven-or-Hell issues. And the...
  2. M

    Muscle And A Shovel

    I understand if you don't want to read it. I'll just say that if you DO read this book in its entirety, then you'll have a better understanding of where Michael Shank is coming from with his replies in this link.
  3. M

    baptism for salvation?

    Sounds like a good idea! I'll look into it tomorrow; for now, gotta go! God bless you too, and everyone else on here!
  4. M

    baptism for salvation?

    Okay, so Jesus came by flesh and blood. Yes. He did that according to God's plan to save us. And angels are not eligible for salvation. You're right about that. But that's because they don't NEED it. They're already in Heaven! It's like saying that humans are not eligible for dorsal fins. Okay...
  5. M

    baptism for salvation?

    I almost forgot, JLB.......to address John 3:6 as well. At first glance, the context of verse 6 seems to back up the notion that verse 5 is speaking of physical birth. But upon closer inspection.......I don't think so. It seems to me that Jesus is saying that if we're born of FLESH (that part of...
  6. M

    baptism for salvation?

    Thank you, JLB, for your civility and respect. I was going to stop posting and just take this to one-on-one PM discussions, but since you were so.....so.....so "last-4-words-of- 1 Peter 3:15" just now, I'll gladly answer your question, my friend! So, you're saying that you see what the Elders...
  7. M

    baptism for salvation?

    First of all, I'm well aware of WHY this is a hot topic. We're all aware that this is life or death stuff.......an eternity in Heaven or Hell.......which is exactly why I started this thread to begin with. Secondly, I HAVE been very clear on this subject (if you've read my posts, then you know...
  8. M

    baptism for salvation?

    Part 2 of my "community response" (again, from my church Elder): Water and the new birth: God sent one prophet to prepare the way for Jesus. His name was John. He was called “the baptizer” because in preparation for the coming Messiah/Christ he baptized people; so many people that he was...
  9. M

    baptism for salvation?

    Since this thread covers a very hot topic, I now see that responding to one person at a time, one per day, is going to be an endless endeavor. I'm still responding to arguments from page 1, and we're on page 5 already! So what I'll do is just put up a 2-part response, to EVERYONE on this thread...
  10. M

    baptism for salvation?

    Veryberry, thank you for your opinion. I've carefully examined and considered all your arguments.......and I think I'll keep the Elders I currently have.
  11. M

    baptism for salvation?

    The following response was shared with me by one of my Elders at church. Regarding 1 Peter 3:21.......Remember that it was Peter who commanded those who heard the gospel on Pentecost to be baptized in Jesus’ name, Acts 2:36-38 which is in perfect harmony with what Jesus told him and the other...
  12. M

    baptism for salvation?

    Gr8grace3, you're up next. :) I'll respond to your arguments tomorrow. And veryberry, I'm glad to hear that you have faith in the blood of Jesus. And yes, I agree, that is what saves us. Not the water itself. That having been said, when you say things like "Go ahead and put your faith in your...
  13. M

    baptism for salvation?

    Turnorburn, I used to raise this exact same point myself. Now, I used to bring this up in order to make a "God wouldn't do that" argument. In this argument, a person believes and repents, but dies before getting baptized, and my argument was that God wouldn't send the person to Hell, simply...
  14. M

    baptism for salvation?

    Lots of them, JLB! But for now, I'll focus on the baptisms that are important to the argument that I'm making.......baptism accounts from the NT on THIS side of the cross. Baptisms into CHRIST, for salvation. There's about 3,000 people in Acts 2:41. Some Samaritans in Acts 8:12. Simon in Acts...
  15. M

    baptism for salvation?

    Moving along (ever so slowly, LOL)! I'm up to post #6 now, and will address what farouk said about John 3. Jesus said in John 3:5 that we gotta be "born of water". Now, since you said that baptism plays no part in John 3, I'm guessing that you think John 3:5 is referring to live birth instead of...
  16. M

    baptism for salvation?

    More arguments have been presented since my last post, and I will get to those too. But like I said, one at a time, at least during this busy week. Yesterday I addressed farouk's first response, and today I'll deal with his second response. Now, farouk, you said that we should understand the New...
  17. M

    baptism for salvation?

    Thanks JLB! I appreciate that. And I'll definitely be getting to the question of "which baptism fulfills the obedience". I just want to quickly add to my above post, that Ephesians 2:8 is exactly right! We ARE saved by grace through faith. And in light of the rest of the New Testament, we...
  18. M

    baptism for salvation?

    Okay, so as I said before, there a quite a few arguments to address. And I plan to address them all, in the order they appear. Unfortunately, I can only address one argument per day, since I've got a lot of other stuff going on this week too. So to farouk, JLB, turnorburn, gr8grace3, Eugene, and...
  19. M

    baptism for salvation?

    I've been saved for 5 weeks. That's all that means. I've been studying the Bible for years. I used to be an Assemblies of God, "baptism-after-salvation", denominationalist. It's taken a long time for me to come out of that. I apologize if my "baby Christian" line gave anyone the wrong idea, that...
  20. M

    5-week-old born again baby

    Reba, you're right. I have started a thread to address farouk's arguments, in the "apologetics/theology" forum. And thanks again to everyone who has been so kind to me on this thread, and welcomed me with open arms! I'm feeling the warmth, and it is good! Here's the link to my thread about our...
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