“The Romans Road†has a disastrous fork in the road!

[John Zain]

The right fork goes to a narrow gate and a difficult way, which leads to Heaven.

The wrong fork goes to a wide gate and a broad way, which leads to Hell.

Paul’s letter to the Christians in Rome is addressed to …
“the called of Jesus Christ … beloved of God, called to be saints†(Romans 1:6-7)

He says to them,
“we have received grace and apostleship for obedience to the faith†(Romans 1:5)

“The Romans Road†is famous for laying out the Plan of Salvation for Christians.

However, for Christians who are NOT obedient to the faith …
“The Romans Road†lays out the Plan of Damnation for Christians!

Paul gives MANY WARNINGS to the Christians in Rome …

Romans 1:
• The righteousness of God is revealed: “The just shall live by faithâ€
• The wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness
and unrighteousness of men, who suppress the truth in unrighteousness
• Knowing the righteous judgment of God, that those who practice such things
(a long list of sins) are deserving of death

Romans 2:
• You who judge those practicing such things (a long list of sins),
and doing the same, (do you think) that you will escape the judgment of God?
• To those who are self-seeking and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness
— indignation and wrath, tribulation and anguish, on every soul of man who does evil,
for there is no partiality with God.

Romans 6:
• Shall we continue in sin that grace may abound? Certainly not!
• We should no longer be slaves of sin
• Reckon yourselves to be dead indeed to sin
• Do not let sin reign in your mortal body, that you should obey it in its lusts
• Do not present your members as instruments of unrighteousness to sin
• Shall we sin because we are not under law but under grace? Certainly not!
• You are that one’s slaves whom you obey, whether of sin leading to death, or …
• Present your members as slaves of righteousness for holiness
• The end of those things (practicing sin) is death
• For the wages of sin is death

Romans 8:
• No condemnation to those who walk according to the Spirit
• The righteous requirement of the law is fulfilled by walking according to the Spirit
• To be carnally minded is death
• The carnal mind is enmity against God
• Those who are in the flesh cannot please God
• If you live according to the flesh you will die
• If by the Spirit you put to death the deeds of the body, you will live
• For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, these are sons of God
• We are children of God and joint heirs with Christ, if indeed we suffer with Him

Romans 11:
• Do not be haughty, but fear. For if God did not spare the natural branches (the Jews),
He may not spare you either. Therefore consider the goodness and severity of God:
on those who fell, severity; but toward you, goodness, if you continue in His goodness.
Otherwise you also will be cut off.

 

[George Muller]

Ro 8:15 For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear; but ye have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father.
16 The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God

Ro 8:28 And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose.
29 ¶ For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.
30 Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.
31 ¶ What shall we then say to these things? If God be for us, who can be against us?
32 He that spared not his own Son, but delivered him up for us all, how shall he not with him also freely give us all things?
33 Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God's elect? It is God that justifieth.
34 Who is he that condemneth? It is Christ that died, yea rather, that is risen again, who is even at the right hand of God, who also maketh intercession for us.
35 Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? NOTHING OR NO ONE!:shades

 

[Maedchen]

Hello, dear John and George.

"When the disciples heard this, they were very astonished and said, 'Then who can be saved?' And looking at them Jesus said to them, 'With people this is impossible, but with God all things are possible.' "
(Mat. 19:25,26)

When we admit to ourselves that we always sin, and when we then beg God for forgiveness and mercy, do you think anything would be too hard for Him to do?

Love, Rose

 

[farouk]

Hello, dear John and George.

"When the disciples heard this, they were very astonished and said, 'Then who can be saved?' And looking at them Jesus said to them, 'With people this is impossible, but with God all things are possible.' "
(Mat. 19:25,26)

When we admit to ourselves that we always sin, and when we then beg God for forgiveness and mercy, do you think anything would be too hard for Him to do?

Love, Rose

Yes, indeed, [MENTION=96634]Rose[/MENTION]; salvation is by grace (Ephesians 2.8), not of works (Ephesians 2.9).

Blessings.

 

[George Muller]

Hello, dear John and George.

"When the disciples heard this, they were very astonished and said, 'Then who can be saved?' And looking at them Jesus said to them, 'With people this is impossible, but with God all things are possible.' "
(Mat. 19:25,26)

When we admit to ourselves that we always sin, and when we then beg God for forgiveness and mercy, do you think anything would be too hard for Him to do?

Love, Rose

Amen Rose, not sure about the need to beg, but I agree with your point.

 

[John Zain]

salvation is by grace (Ephesians 2.8), not of works (Ephesians 2.9).

I feel the above needs to be explained.

Obedience to God's commands, and co-operating with God and His Plan of Salvation,
are NOT to be considered as GOOD WORKS!

If this is NOT being done, one is in BIG trouble ...
1 John 1:8-10
“If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.
If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just
to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
If we say that we have not sinned, we make Him a liar, and His word is not in us.”

BACs who are involved in HABITUAL SIN are also in VERY BIG TROUBLE!
(There are several passages which WARN against sinning habitually.)

 

[Deborah13]

When we admit to ourselves that we always sin, and when we then beg God for forgiveness and mercy, do you think anything would be too hard for Him to do?

Amen Rose, Amen

If we think we love our children it is nothing compared to God's perfect love for His children, us.

 

[jeff77]

Obedience to God's commands, and co-operating with God and His Plan of Salvation, are NOT to be considered as GOOD WORKS!

Then what is considered good works? Non-Christians do good works such as treating others as you would treat yourself. So I guess leading people to the Cross and standing up for Christian principles would count as good works?

 

[Deborah13]

If this is NOT being done, one is in BIG trouble ...
1 John 1:8-10
“If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.
If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just
to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
If we say that we have not sinned, we make Him a liar, and His word is not in us.”

BACs who are involved in HABITUAL SIN are also in VERY BIG TROUBLE!
(There are several passages which WARN against sinning habitually.)

1John 1:3-9
3 That which we have seen and heard declare we unto you, that ye also may have fellowship with us: and truly our fellowship is with the Father, and with his Son Jesus Christ.
4 And these things write we unto you, that your joy may be full.
5 This then is the message which we have heard of him, and declare unto you, that God is light, and in him is no darkness at all.
6 If we say that we have fellowship with him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not the truth:
7 But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.
8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.
9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
10 If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.

This first chapter, it appears to me, that John is speaking to the unbelievers in the audience. Any true believer knows they have sinned and continue to sin. V9, while true for the believer sounds very much to me like a 'sinners prayer'. We have to recognize we are sinners, repent, and receive His forgiveness in order to be saved. Seeing that admitting one is a sinner seems to be the point here and this statement in v3.

3 That which we have seen and heard declare we unto you, that ye also may have fellowship with us.

Did the believers in the church have fellowship with the apostles, yes. They had recognized their sin and need for a Savior. But any good preacher will speak to those in their audience that have not recognized their need. He goes on to instruct "my little children" about the Savior being their Mediator and about not walking is darkness, which he says is 'not walking in love'.

12 I write unto you, little children, because your sins are forgiven you for his name's sake.

After this he goes on to encourage them in their faith, lifting them up.

John or anyone, is there one other scripture that says "ask for forgiveness " in the NT ?

If you can find one I will admit I am wrong about what I am going to say....
I believe that we need to repent but as far as asking for forgiveness, no, because ALL a believers sins were forgiven at the moment that they received Jesus as their Savior, past, present, and future. He paid for the sins of the world on the cross and when we admit that we are sinners and need Him to save us, we are His and forgiven.
A study of the word repent in both the Hebrew and the Greek was an eye opener to me.

 

[Deborah13]

BACs who are involved in HABITUAL SIN are also in VERY BIG TROUBLE!
(There are several passages which WARN against sinning habitually.)

So John, I ask you again, if a Christian gets a divorce (not for adultery) and remarries, or marries a divorced person are they living in HABITUAL SIN?

If yes, why?
If no, why?

 

[John Zain]

BACs who are involved in HABITUAL SIN are also in VERY BIG TROUBLE!
(There are several passages which WARN against sinning habitually.)

So John, I ask you again, if a Christian gets a divorce (not for adultery)
and remarries, or marries a divorced person are they living in HABITUAL SIN?

I don't know ... Jesus has different rules than does Paul.

The only habitual sins that I know of are listed in these 7 lists ...
http://www.christianforums.net/showthread.php?t=52040

Fornicators and adulterers are on several of the 7 lists.

 

[John Zain]

When we admit to ourselves that we always sin, and when we then beg God
for forgiveness and mercy, do you think anything would be too hard for Him to do?

What does this have to do with the OP?
IMO, there are 2 roads presented in Romans:
the road of blessings and the road of cursings.

The 2 covenants are different, except for such as:
blessings and cursings, obedience is required, blood covenant, etc.

 

[Deborah13]

I don't know ... Jesus has different rules than does Paul.

How are Paul's different than Jesus? I don't know this.

 

[Maedchen]

When we admit to ourselves that we always sin, and when we then beg God
for forgiveness and mercy, do you think anything would be too hard for Him to do?

What does this have to do with the OP?
IMO, there are 2 roads presented in Romans:
the road of blessings and the road of cursings.

The 2 covenants are different, except for such as:
blessings and cursings, obedience is required, blood covenant, etc.

Dear John,

I want to apologize to you. You have done such a great summery of the relating chapters in the book of Romans, and I think that my remark has pointed the discussion into a totally different way than you had intended. I am truly sorry.
Especially because I recently heard from a diligent Christian gentleman who sacrificed his Saturdays for the ministry of our dear Lord by knocking on house doors and giving away tracts with the 'Romans Road' typed on it. So your investigation of its content even helped me to understand this tract which must be very well known in churches.

Just to answer your question about what I thought when writing my comment in reference to your thread-theme:

When you mentioned the 'road of cursings', i.e. when people choose not to obey God's will and do not walk righteously and continue to sin, I was reminded of Paul who so humbly told us, "For I know that nothing good dwells in me, that is, in my flesh; for the willing is present in me, but the doing of the good is not. For the good that I want, I do not do, but I practice the very evil that I do not want......for I joyfully concur with the law of God in the inner man, but I see a different law in the members of my body, waging war against the law of my mind and making me a prisoner of the law of sin which is in my members. Wretched man that I am! Who will set me free from the body of this death?" (Romans 7:18-24)

I thought to simply show that through Paul we might gain hope knowing that even this apostle, chosen by Jesus Himself, did not always manage to live obedient to his faith. But in admitting one's sinfulness, which we all inherited by Adam, and by asking God for forgiveness, it is in my opinion not impossible for God to be just and still have mercy on us, because "with God all things are possible".
Hence my intention was to soothe the despair some of us might feel while knowing that we want to please God, and make him sad instead. (At least I very often feel that way.)

Again, dear John, I did not want to mislead with my thought. You know, I am not the smartest here. ;)

Love, Rose

 

[farouk]

When we admit to ourselves that we always sin, and when we then beg God
for forgiveness and mercy, do you think anything would be too hard for Him to do?

What does this have to do with the OP?
IMO, there are 2 roads presented in Romans:
the road of blessings and the road of cursings.

The 2 covenants are different, except for such as:
blessings and cursings, obedience is required, blood covenant, etc.

Paul taught salvation by grace, through faith, not of works (Ephesians 2.8-9).

He didn't teach that true believers can lose their salvation. The promise to believers in the Lord Jesus at the end of Romans 8 is very clear.

 

[Maedchen]

When we admit to ourselves that we always sin, and when we then beg God for forgiveness and mercy, do you think anything would be too hard for Him to do?

Amen Rose, Amen

If we think we love our children it is nothing compared to God's perfect love for His children, us.

Dear Deborah,

yes, Amen, God's love for His children is beyond our imagination.

Only because you asked: "John or anyone, is there one other scripture that says "ask for forgiveness " in the NT ?"
I must think of the 'Lord's Prayer', in Mat.6:9-13, where Jesus tells us, "Pray, then, in this way: Our Father who is in heaven, hallowed be Your name..... And forgive us our debts, as we also have forgiven our debtors...."
Thereafter He further explains, "For if you forgive others for their transgressions, your Heavenly Father will also forgive you. But if you do not forgive others, then your Father will not forgive your transgressions." (Verses 14,15)

Hence I thought we must daily ask for the forgiveness of our sins and remind ourselves to forgive others, in order to be forgiven.
-
[By the way, I like your avatar. Is it an American Goldfinch? I have two parakeets and two cockatiels at home.]

Love, Rose

 

[Deborah13]

Is it an American Goldfinch?

Hi Rose,

Rocky Mt. goldfinch.

Yes, thank you for these scriptures. I was more of a mind in relationship to salvation. I see both these scriptures speaking to us about loving others as you would have them love you. Unforgiveness can keep us from receiving blessings that the Lord would like to give us but because we have harden our heart towards someone else it can keep us from receiving from Him. satan can get right in there and do a job on us.

You should do what the Lord has shown you in His word. You, I can hear, are very sincere in your relationship with the Lord. You can't go wrong in how you are praying according to these scriptures.

May the Lord Bless you and keep you

 

[Deborah13]

I thought to simply show that through Paul we might gain hope knowing that even this apostle, chosen by Jesus Himself, did not always manage to live obedient to his faith. But in admitting one's sinfulness, which we all inherited by Adam, and by asking God for forgiveness, it is in my opinion not impossible for God to be just and still have mercy on us, because "with God all things are possible".
Hence my intention was to soothe the despair some of us might feel while knowing that we want to please God, and make him sad instead. (At least I very often feel that way.)

This was a fine response to this thread. In fact, perfect. [MENTION=5758]John[/MENTION] is always pointing out that one must repent. So I am sure when he reads your response he will be pleased.

 

[Deborah13]

Obedience to God's commands, and co-operating with God and His Plan of Salvation, are NOT to be considered as GOOD WORKS!

Then what is considered good works? Non-Christians do good works such as treating others as you would treat yourself. So I guess leading people to the Cross and standing up for Christian principles would count as good works?

So I guess leading people to the Cross and standing up for Christian principles would count as good works?

Yes, Jeff you are correct. Leading someone to Christ, that is what disciples do. Loving others is what we are called to do. The fruit of the Spirit.

Jesus said there are two commandments that we need to follow,
Love God first
Love our neighbor as ourselves.
When we do these two things we are in effect keeping the law and operating in the fruit of the Spirit.
None of us are perfect, sometimes we mess up. But God is faithful in His mercy and grace.
We just keep looking at Jesus and the goodness of God leads us to repent (change our mind) about whatever we need to and renew our minds, into agreement with the mind of God.

Blessings to you

 

[eddif]

I guess I just do think differently.

IMHO the road that starts the journey to heaven is the road of Repentance. This is a bumpy road that reminds you of who you are in the flesh. Potholes, flat tires, engine problems are common (you just find yourself hitting the problems when you intend to avoid them).

After a time on the Repentance road you hear of the turnpike leading to heaven. Jesus is the gate to eternal life. Jesus paid the price for eternal life. If we confess our sins he is faithful and just to forgive us of our sins and cleanse us of all unrighteousness.

Romans 7:25
25 I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.

Your GPS is fixed on the destination and the toll booth shows up (the mind).
Your flesh still has a few issues.

If you decide to not use the Jesus gate (price is free --Belief) then your journey of repentance just hit a snag.

Of course Mississippi folks do not have toll roads and so what could they know about all this. LOL

eddif