“The Romans Road†has a disastrous fork in the road!

[reba]

I agree about knowing about God, but George was talking about Jesus of Nazareth. Clearly, Paul doesn't think everyone knows about Jesus Christ...

Regards

There are one in the same.... Some where Grace and Mercy kick in....

 

[francisdesales]

I agree about knowing about God, but George was talking about Jesus of Nazareth. Clearly, Paul doesn't think everyone knows about Jesus Christ...

Regards

There are one in the same.... Some where Grace and Mercy kick in....

Does a person have to know about Jesus of Nazareth's historical sacrifice on the cross to be saved? Or does God judge a person by what he knows and how he reaches out to the transcendent - where applicable?

Do you think the God of mercy and love condemns people to hell because they were born before 25 AD???

Yes, Jesus and God are one in the same, but when if you never heard of the historical person of Jesus? Cannot God still act within that person?

Regards

 

[Eugene]

God is not going to automatically condemn people to hell because they were born out of season.

You're right if I'm understanding you, but to clarify my position I'm saying none are born in a wrong time, as God makes Him know to all men in any generation; God hath dealt to every man the measure of faith (Rom 12:3).

I'm personally not aware of how God let Abel know to bring the correct sacrifice, but he did. What of the deaf He made to hear, the blind in heart such as I was to see? I sure do not know but am reminded of something I once read of an incident in the Philippians during WWII. There was discovered a tribe in the jungles that had made a similarity of an airplane they observed flying overhead out of bamboo or whatever and were worshiping it. Now we don't see beasts doing any such thing, and so I would ask what has God put in man to do such a thing as believing there is someone or something higher than man?

Now the book of Romans was writen to Christians but I believe the following scripture can reflect God's dealing with all men.

Romans 1:19 Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them.

Romans 1:20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:

God bless you in Jesus' name.

 

[reba]

Pessssssst Francis I think we are in agreement on this point

 

[francisdesales]

Pessssssst Francis I think we are in agreement on this point

WHEW!!!

 

[francisdesales]

You're right if I'm understanding you, but to clarify my position I'm saying none are born in a wrong time, as God makes Him know to all men in any generation; God hath dealt to every man the measure of faith (Rom 12:3).

I agree, faith in the transcendant God of the universe, not necessarily Jesus of Nazareth, since He was incarnate in a fixed time and place not known to all men.

I'm personally not aware of how God let Abel know to bring the correct sacrifice, but he did. What of the deaf He made to hear, the blind in heart such as I was to see?

Yes, good point. That is why I am of the mind not to be so absolute - one must know Jesus of Nazareth in the historical sense. I'm thinking God will judge us on what we know - which may not include the historical knowledge that Jesus died on the cross for our sins. Sure, it is the ordinary path, but is God bound to this in His decision on judgment day? I would think not.

I sure do not know but am reminded of something I once read of an incident in the Philippians during WWII. There was discovered a tribe in the jungles that had made a similarity of an airplane they observed flying overhead out of bamboo or whatever and were worshiping it. Now we don't see beasts doing any such thing, and so I would ask what has God put in man to do such a thing as believing there is someone or something higher than man?

I would think even the "savages" are aware of this, thus, the need to worship something beyond themselves. They certainly would know that they didn't create themselves and that there was something transcendent to themselves. Now, the attributes of God can be partially known by logic and rational thought, but some things must be revealed - such as God is a Triune God. That is not something we could figure out without God telling us.

Now the book of Romans was writen to Christians but I believe the following scripture can reflect God's dealing with all men.

Romans 1:19 Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them.

Romans 1:20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:

God bless you in Jesus' name.

Agreed, the thinking man should be able to figure out something about God.

And may God bless you in Jesus' name as well...

Regards

 

[Rollo Tamasi]

Now, the attributes of God can be partially known by logic and rational thought, but some things must be revealed - such as God is a Triune God. That is not something we could figure out without God telling us.

This is true but the plurality of God was always there.
"Let us make man in our image".
The Hebrews translate that in the singular but it opens the door for a "promised Messiah" that would also be God.

 

[eddif]

All the laws of nature normally function at the same time. -Normally- At special times an axe head may float on water by divine intervention (maybe with instructions).

I Corinthians 2:4
4 And my speech and my preaching was not with enticing words of man’s wisdom, but in demonstration of the Spirit and of power:

This is all just about beyond the Mississippi mind.

Romans 1:19-20
Gravity tries to hold us on earth
Bouyancy tries to float us on water
Aerodynamics allows us to fly in the air
/
Sin tries to pull us down
Redemption saves 8 souls from the flood
We shall meet Him in the air and be changed
+++++++++++
Time before 25 AD tries to seperate us from Christ Jesus
/
Jesus descending into hell to preach takes captivity captive, and overcomes time
+++++++++++
Sins seperate us from God
/
If we confess our sins he will forgive and cleanse
+++++++++++
Ignorance (lack of wisdom)
/
If any man lacks wisdom let him ask God (who gives wisdom any who ask
+++++++++++
Natural laws normally function
/
Spiritual laws are normal (natural) to God and are the greater force
+++++++++++
The letter of the law is a schoolmaster (hearing)
/
The spirit of the law is good (doing)


Lots of areas that all function at the same time: (use your own description)
One person is a kidney (helps remove bad from the body of Christ)
One person is a liver (encouraging the body by feeding energy)
One person is a hand (contact point of God)
One person is an ear (we are sometimes hard of hearing in one frequency but hear in another)

We all have gifts that differ.

Some stuff I just repeated in a different way. Symbolism is: You use nature to hide or reveal (according to dispensation or condition ?).

eddif

 

[francisdesales]

Now, the attributes of God can be partially known by logic and rational thought, but some things must be revealed - such as God is a Triune God. That is not something we could figure out without God telling us.

This is true but the plurality of God was always there.
"Let us make man in our image".
The Hebrews translate that in the singular but it opens the door for a "promised Messiah" that would also be God.

Scriptures ARE revelation from God (so the claim goes)!!! Note my point is that all men can come through rational thought that God exists - but Trinity depends upon revelation. Hebrew Scriptures are not the rational thoughts of some men.

Furthermore, that passage is pretty vague, it can refer to a royal plurality.

Regards

 

[George Muller]

Sorry Rose this has not been the issue, and I would ask you do you support jethros position that peole are saved apart from faith in Christ, with no standards of scripture, But that Christains who are washed in the Blood of Christ can be condemned by certain standards in the scriptures? It sounds as if we are saved by unbelief and can only be condemned if we are justified by Christ. Does this not sound a little backward to you?

Joh 3:36 He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.

Dear George,

yes, it sounds "a little backward" to me. But I found a verse of which I am not so sure if it has been already mentioned on this thread ( I am on a tour with our team right now and could not read the whole pages again. By the way, that is why I am answering so late - I am sorry, George).

The verse is in Acts 17:30 and reads, "Therefore having overlooked the times of ignorance, God is now declaring to men that all people everywhere should repent".

Therefore the return of Christ will only take place after Matthew24:14, so that all men would have heard about Christ and could chose to accept Him as Lord and Savior.

Further, if you are so kind as to read Deborah's last post above, you might understand what brother Jethro, Deborah and I am trying to say. In fact, I think that we are not far away from your opinion. We simply tried to combine both statements (salvation through grace and obeying) of the bible, instead of separating them.

Deborah summed it up so nicely, don't you think, dear George?

Love, Rose

Yes Deborah summed it up in that this is about a relationship with our God, for any to suggest that salvation can be granted apart from this relationship, goes to the very heart of all heresy. As John wrote; if we accept those who teach such things, we have become partakers of their evil deeds. If we even bid them Gods speed, we are in effect supporting their false doctrines. So I find little fellowship with those who in you breath seek to condemn those who Christ has died to save, and then in the next seek to justify those who reject Christ and His Blood.