“They That Are Heavenly”

[netchaplain]

Netchaplain, you wrote "Everyone is aware that there are those who believe they are still in operation and those that do not believe they are in operation." in response to "Are you saying we no longer have " gifts of the Spirit " manifestations ? Such as speaking in tongues , and healing the sick ?"

IOW, you didn't answer the question. What do you believe about the gifts of the Spirit being manifested today?

Thanks for asking. I decided about 30 years ago that the "gifts of the Spirit" in the capacity of 1Co 12 ended with the last of the Apostle John around 70 and, and they have not been an issue with most believers since then. What restarted interest in this issue came about in the early 1900's, which can be viewed here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Azusa_Street_Revival

 

[Hopeful]

It really is difficult and of course God uses all the difficulties and trials in the life of those reborn to teach us concerning our walk (lifestyle). Eternal security being established and settled at rebirth, all that remains is being used of God to strengthen the saved--and draw the lost, thus "glorifying your Father which is in heaven" (Mat 5:16).

You only make it difficult because you didn't see 2 Cor 5:17.
"Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new."
Out with the old nature and in with the new nature.
Of course, it only applies to those "in Christ".

 

[Hopeful]

I too wish the old man was no more, then we wouldn't sin any more! Thankfully His forgiveness has nothing to do with producing forgiveness, because this comes only through Christ's Cross-work. The obedience (unceasingly) confirms forgiveness has been received.

Your "wish" is granted.
If we get baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of past sins, (Acts 2:38), we will also kill the old man, (Rom 6:6), with his vile affections and lusts. (Gal 5:24)
A true repentance from sin is also vital.
We don't have to commit sin anymore.

 

[netchaplain]

Your "wish" is granted.
If we get baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of past sins, (Acts 2:38), we will also kill the old man, (Rom 6:6), with his vile affections and lusts. (Gal 5:24)
A true repentance from sin is also vital.
We don't have to commit sin anymore.

Thanks and like your comments, but it's my understanding that we are dead to it in the sense that its damning power and guilt (Ro 8:1), and its "dominating" (Rom 6:14) power is nullified. Though we are dead to it (Col 3:3), it is not dead to us (Rom 7:17, 20). It's been said that the the old man is like a captain that did something so bad that the crew declared a mutiny on him, and was chained to the mast, until being dealt with when reaching the shore. But during the time getting to the shore they could still hear him demanding orders, but knew he could do nothing about them, being restrained to the mast (e.g. still on the Cross).

Our death to it was completed at rebirth, which involved the believer no longer being in or "after the flesh," old man or sin nature (Rom 8:9). All the old man can do now to those reborn is horas and temp, with the purpose of interfering with our "growing up into Christ" (Eph 4:15). After being reborn, all that remains is maturing or being conformed in our walk (lifestyle).

 

[jaybo]

Thanks for asking. I decided about 30 years ago that the "gifts of the Spirit" in the capacity of 1Co 12 ended with the last of the Apostle John around 70 and, and they have not been an issue with most believers since then. What restarted interest in this issue came about in the early 1900's, which can be viewed here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Azusa_Street_Revival

I was healed in the hospital when a pastor prayed "Jesus, heal this man" and two days later I asked for and received my prayer language ("spoke in tongues").

So I disagree (via first person experience) that the "gifts of the Spirit" did not end with the last of the Apostle John around 70.

 

[netchaplain]

I was healed in the hospital when a pastor prayed "Jesus, heal this man" and two days later I asked for and received my prayer language ("spoke in tongues").

So I disagree (via first person experience) that the "gifts of the Spirit" did not end with the last of the Apostle John around 70.

It's ok to believe what we choose to believe about this issue because it's not related to being saved but growing from your salvation.

 

[jaybo]

It's ok to believe what we choose to believe about this issue because it's not related to being saved but growing from your salvation.

Theoretical. I was an atheist when I was healed and saved. My salvation came about through that experience.

 

[hawkman]

Thanks for asking. I decided about 30 years ago that the "gifts of the Spirit" in the capacity of 1Co 12 ended with the last of the Apostle John around 70 and, and they have not been an issue with most believers since then. What restarted interest in this issue came about in the early 1900's, which can be viewed here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Azusa_Street_Revival

Could you share what made you decide on this ending ? An issue ? ! ? A blessing from God would that not be a better term ?

It's ok to believe what we choose to believe about this issue because it's not related to being saved but growing from your salvation.

Please explain what you mean by " growing from your salvation " in terms of what you are saying about Gift of The Holy Spirit ?

netchaplain​

Don't you operate in the Gift of a teacher ?
1 Corinthians 12:28 And God hath set some in the church, first apostles, secondarily prophets, thirdly teachers, after that miracles, then gifts of healings, helps, governments, diversities of tongues.

 

[Hopeful]

Thanks and like your comments, but it's my understanding that we are dead to it in the sense that its damning power and guilt (Ro 8:1), and its "dominating" (Rom 6:14) power is nullified. Though we are dead to it (Col 3:3), it is not dead to us (Rom 7:17, 20).

You don't seem to be aware that in those parts of Rom 7, Paul is speaking of his time in the flesh, before his conversion.
A "flesh" that was killed in Rom 6:6.

It's been said that the the old man is like a captain that did something so bad that the crew declared a mutiny on him, and was chained to the mast, until being dealt with when reaching the shore. But during the time getting to the shore they could still hear him demanding orders, but knew he could do nothing about them, being restrained to the mast (e.g. still on the Cross).

Non-biblical.

Our death to it was completed at rebirth, which involved the believer no longer being in or "after the flesh," old man or sin nature (Rom 8:9).

Very biblical.

All the old man can do now to those reborn is horas and temp, with the purpose of interfering with our "growing up into Christ" (Eph 4:15). After being reborn, all that remains is maturing or being conformed in our walk (lifestyle).

As "our death to it" is complete, why give the old man any power at all?
The old man has no power at all.

 

[netchaplain]

Could you share what made you decide on this ending ?

It's my understanding that the purpose of the "gifts" were to confirm the Word of God that was coming from the Apostles. The initial appeal was to God's people Israel (from them to the rest of the world), and as it is known "the Jews require a sign" (1Co 1:22), probably due to the way God always used miracles to reach His people. Thus, "the Lord working with them, and confirming the Word with signs following" (Mar 16:20; 2Co 12:12; Heb 2:4).

This did not allow for a stronger faith, which is believing without proof, which is the purpose of God for our increasing faith (Jhn 20:29). When Scripture was completed it could confirm itself and the need for natural proof was no longer necessary, in order for faith to grow and mature for producing more good works.

 

[netchaplain]

Please explain what you mean by " growing from your salvation " in terms of what you are saying about Gift of The Holy Spirit ?

One cannot grow in salvation because it dose not admit in degrees, like faith does. So, we grow, not in salvation (all are saved to the same degree) but from it, e.g. "work out your own salvation with fear and trembling" (Phl 2:12). The intention of this passage is to work out of or from your salvation, because salvation needs no work, Christ providing all that's necessary for being redeemed (reborn) in salvation. Our works do not add to nor retain salvation, but they are for manifesting salvation. All who will be reborn will manifest it by the fruit of the Spirit.

 

[hawkman]

It's my understanding that the purpose of the "gifts" were to confirm the Word of God that was coming from the Apostles. The initial appeal was to God's people Israel (from them to the rest of the world), and as it is known "the Jews require a sign" (1Co 1:22), probably due to the way God always used miracles to reach His people. Thus, "the Lord working with them, and confirming the Word with signs following" (Mar 16:20; 2Co 12:12; Heb 2:4).

The 12 Apostles were not the only ones confirming the Word with signs following . Signs and wonders were not done only by apostles in the NT; Jesus sent out the 70 to heal the sick . Read in Luke for proof of what I say .

Luke 10​

1 After these things the LORD appointed other seventy also, and sent them two and two before his face into every city and place, whither he himself would come.

2 Therefore said he unto them, The harvest truly is great, but the labourers are few: pray ye therefore the Lord of the harvest, that he would send forth labourers into his harvest.

3 Go your ways: behold, I send you forth as lambs among wolves.

4 Carry neither purse, nor scrip, nor shoes: and salute no man by the way.

5 And into whatsoever house ye enter, first say, Peace be to this house.

6 And if the son of peace be there, your peace shall rest upon it: if not, it shall turn to you again.

7 And in the same house remain, eating and drinking such things as they give: for the labourer is worthy of his hire. Go not from house to house.

8 And into whatsoever city ye enter, and they receive you, eat such things as are set before you:

9 And heal the sick that are therein, and say unto them, The kingdom of God is come nigh unto you.

Luke 10:17 And the seventy returned again with joy, saying, Lord, even the devils are subject unto us through thy name.

Not only that but WE as believers are to go out into the world ! "Them that believe " that is us !

Mark16:

15 And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature.

16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.

17 And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues;

18 They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover.

This did not allow for a stronger faith, which is believing without proof, which is the purpose of God for our increasing faith (Jhn 20:29). When Scripture was completed it could confirm itself and the need for natural proof was no longer necessary, in order for faith to grow and mature for producing more good works.

If we are a Christian we ALL have proof ! The proof was when we became born again and accepted Jesus for our Savior and felt that life changing power in our spirit .

Didn't you get that proof ?

 

[netchaplain]

The 12 Apostles were not the only ones confirming the Word with signs following . Signs and wonders were not done only by apostles in the NT; Jesus sent out the 70 to heal the sick . Read in Luke for proof of what I say .

I'm referring to beginning with those whom God was using to bring about His Word. It began with the Apostles and of course used other disciples that learned from the Apostles, but the entire purpose was to being attention to the Word, because it is was is used to manifest God's mind and purposes.

 

[netchaplain]

If we are a Christian we ALL have proof ! The proof was when we became born again and accepted Jesus for our Savior and felt that life changing power in our spirit .

Didn't you get that proof ?

I've learned that the primary source of faith and salvation is that "The Spirit itself bears witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God" (Rom 8:16). To avoid misunderstanding one another on this issue I would prefer not to continue on the subject of the Spirit's gifts. I believe the subject cannot receive adequate attention in this way going back and forth on what we personally believe about it. But I've appreciated the kind manner we we're maintaining about it.

 

[hawkman]

I've learned that the primary source of faith and salvation is that "The Spirit itself bears witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God" (Rom 8:16).

Yes !

To avoid misunderstanding one another on this issue I would prefer not to continue on the subject of the Spirit's gifts. I believe the subject cannot receive adequate attention in this way going back and forth on what we personally believe about it.

Sure , I understand . A lot of things would be better discussed sitting across a table with coffee to drink .

But I've appreciated the kind manner we we're maintaining about it.

Me too , I look forward to more chats .

 

[netchaplain]

Me too , I look forward to more chats .

Same here! God bless and God be blessed!