B
BereanDAD2003
Guest
I agree and disagree on points you make, John.
John:
Thanks for your reply.
You ask:
Hi, the message that I read the first time was that there is a different way of salvation for the Jew & the Gentile? Right or wrong? See Heb. 11:13.
Response:
No. If I seemed to say this, I apologize for my lack of clarity. "He made no distinction between us [Jews who became Christians] and them, for he purified thier [Gentiles who became Christians] hearts by faith" (Acts 15:9). Once Jesus the Messiah came, people have to come to God specifically through him (John 14:6). Prior to his coming, the literal descendents of Abraham, if they sought to be justified by the law found that they were sorely lacking as sin after sin piled up against them. Of course, if they went through the rituals and sacrifices (Yom Kippur, etc.) they were covered. On the other hand, if they were living by faith like the people spoken of in Hebrews 11:13, God was saving them (as he did David, Asa, and others) on the basis of the covenant he made with Abraham.
You write:
You seem to confuse the law of Gal. (added because of sin) & the James 2:8-12's [ROYAL LAW] (Eternal Covenant) that [ALL] will be finally judged by to see if they 'really' are Born Again & [MATURE] Obedient believers safe to save, with the law that Moses penned in a book? See Deut. 31 & Na. 1:9. (still again, LOVE is the 'tested' motive of ALL the 'finally' saved Obedient ones. And how it was done! see Phil. 4:13 & 2 Cor. 12:9 )
Respons:
I basically agree with what you've said there. But one must be in the new covenant, members of the kingdom that Paul said Christians had been transferred into (Colossians 1:13). I believe the New Testament indicates certain things that make a person a member of the kingdom/faith that Jesus established. Certainly God wants us to progress in the faith adding virtues over time as we await the final day of welcome into the eternal kingdom (2 Peter 1:5-11).
You wrote:
[colore=red]Regardless: All & ONLY [Born Again SPIRITUAL] 7th day Sabbath Jew's will not take the Mark of the Beast! That is the final testing for their LOVE of their MASTER! (not like Cain's fruit sacrifice of Gen. 4:7 or Sun.'s comparrison!) [/color]
Response:
Jews can follow laws like the 7th day sabbath and anything else if they want to, but as Paul said, he was not under the law (1 Corinthians 920), though he did, from time to time follow certain Mosaical Law vows (Acts 21:17-26); and even exercised such an option when clearly made an act of expediency (not requirement) as in when he had Timothy circumcised because of his Jewish background and the need to be able to evangelize among Jews (Acts 16:3). As to the Mark of the Beast stuff, we probably have a different way of understanding milennial ideas. It will be the way it will be. God will do what he wants with the saved. He is able to destroy in hell those who need it (Matthew 10:28).
You write:
Surely there have been many sincere saints before this [final] testing that OBEYED the MASTER as best as they had known! These too were spiritual Jews regardless if they knew it or not. See John 10:16 for what transpires when they are 'LED' by the Holy Ghost in Rom. 8:14. (not all will do so it seems? see Rev. 18:4)
Response:
You're possibly right. I see no reason to argue the point. Although I've typically felt that those Jesus was speaking of in Joh 10:16 were Gentiles (possibly also those of Acts 2:38-39).
You write:
Perhaps one might explore the Born Again [POSTIVES ONLY] of Heb. 6 to see why this is most likely so? What more does one need they might say? I [HAVE TASTED THE GOOD WORD OF GOD], [I HAVE BEEN MADE PARTAKERS OF THE HOLY GHOST]!
In other words, they FEEL GOOD! They go by FEELING instead of PRINCIPLE! God said it I BELIEVE IT AND THAT SETTLES IT FOR ME as the old [TRUTHFUL] saying goes. True LOVE is a principle, not feeling or emotion!
Response:
There are various aspects to the obedience of faith (Acts 6:7; Romans 1:5; 16:26, and other verses) that prove love. We can't call Jesus "Lord, lord," and not do what he says, especially when he asks us directly and through his apostles to do things. Some people got specific answers when they asked what they needed to do (Example: Acts 2:37. Answer in v. 38).
You write:
As far as MATURING goes, who needs that they wonder? So they mis/understand the WHOLE of the Everlasting Gospel & Everlasting [CONDITIONAL] Covenant! Read & study Hosea 4:6 with [our] last day [INCREASED KNOWLEDGE]. (even AFTER we have all of the Master's Word RECORDED.
Response:
No comment.
You write:
You might wonder why the GodHead . . .
Reponse:
I don't believe in a godhead. The Father is God. Jesus became the Son of God. God and Son of God are not the same. Jesus is not God. Jesus is not a dual-natured creature. Jesus the man could be tempted (Hebrews 4:15). God could not (James 1:13). But that's a discussion for another part of the forum, isn't it.
You write:
tested the first pair of Their [PERFECTLY CREATED] ones in the first place? Who by the way, were neither called Jews. The reason was that [ALL] of Their creating were [NOT] created with a [MATURE] Character! (even the other world's' as is twice stated in the Heb. chapters) This they had to develope. Surely the provision 'IN CHRIST' was given, yet it was their free DECISION to make!
Response:
Adam and Eve were safe by obedience to law and lost according to law and saved by God their Father's prerogative.
You're a smart dude, John. It will be interesting talking with you from time to time.
John:
Thanks for your reply.
You ask:
Hi, the message that I read the first time was that there is a different way of salvation for the Jew & the Gentile? Right or wrong? See Heb. 11:13.
Response:
No. If I seemed to say this, I apologize for my lack of clarity. "He made no distinction between us [Jews who became Christians] and them, for he purified thier [Gentiles who became Christians] hearts by faith" (Acts 15:9). Once Jesus the Messiah came, people have to come to God specifically through him (John 14:6). Prior to his coming, the literal descendents of Abraham, if they sought to be justified by the law found that they were sorely lacking as sin after sin piled up against them. Of course, if they went through the rituals and sacrifices (Yom Kippur, etc.) they were covered. On the other hand, if they were living by faith like the people spoken of in Hebrews 11:13, God was saving them (as he did David, Asa, and others) on the basis of the covenant he made with Abraham.
You write:
You seem to confuse the law of Gal. (added because of sin) & the James 2:8-12's [ROYAL LAW] (Eternal Covenant) that [ALL] will be finally judged by to see if they 'really' are Born Again & [MATURE] Obedient believers safe to save, with the law that Moses penned in a book? See Deut. 31 & Na. 1:9. (still again, LOVE is the 'tested' motive of ALL the 'finally' saved Obedient ones. And how it was done! see Phil. 4:13 & 2 Cor. 12:9 )
Respons:
I basically agree with what you've said there. But one must be in the new covenant, members of the kingdom that Paul said Christians had been transferred into (Colossians 1:13). I believe the New Testament indicates certain things that make a person a member of the kingdom/faith that Jesus established. Certainly God wants us to progress in the faith adding virtues over time as we await the final day of welcome into the eternal kingdom (2 Peter 1:5-11).
You wrote:
[colore=red]Regardless: All & ONLY [Born Again SPIRITUAL] 7th day Sabbath Jew's will not take the Mark of the Beast! That is the final testing for their LOVE of their MASTER! (not like Cain's fruit sacrifice of Gen. 4:7 or Sun.'s comparrison!) [/color]
Response:
Jews can follow laws like the 7th day sabbath and anything else if they want to, but as Paul said, he was not under the law (1 Corinthians 920), though he did, from time to time follow certain Mosaical Law vows (Acts 21:17-26); and even exercised such an option when clearly made an act of expediency (not requirement) as in when he had Timothy circumcised because of his Jewish background and the need to be able to evangelize among Jews (Acts 16:3). As to the Mark of the Beast stuff, we probably have a different way of understanding milennial ideas. It will be the way it will be. God will do what he wants with the saved. He is able to destroy in hell those who need it (Matthew 10:28).
You write:
Surely there have been many sincere saints before this [final] testing that OBEYED the MASTER as best as they had known! These too were spiritual Jews regardless if they knew it or not. See John 10:16 for what transpires when they are 'LED' by the Holy Ghost in Rom. 8:14. (not all will do so it seems? see Rev. 18:4)
Response:
You're possibly right. I see no reason to argue the point. Although I've typically felt that those Jesus was speaking of in Joh 10:16 were Gentiles (possibly also those of Acts 2:38-39).
You write:
Perhaps one might explore the Born Again [POSTIVES ONLY] of Heb. 6 to see why this is most likely so? What more does one need they might say? I [HAVE TASTED THE GOOD WORD OF GOD], [I HAVE BEEN MADE PARTAKERS OF THE HOLY GHOST]!
In other words, they FEEL GOOD! They go by FEELING instead of PRINCIPLE! God said it I BELIEVE IT AND THAT SETTLES IT FOR ME as the old [TRUTHFUL] saying goes. True LOVE is a principle, not feeling or emotion!
Response:
There are various aspects to the obedience of faith (Acts 6:7; Romans 1:5; 16:26, and other verses) that prove love. We can't call Jesus "Lord, lord," and not do what he says, especially when he asks us directly and through his apostles to do things. Some people got specific answers when they asked what they needed to do (Example: Acts 2:37. Answer in v. 38).
You write:
As far as MATURING goes, who needs that they wonder? So they mis/understand the WHOLE of the Everlasting Gospel & Everlasting [CONDITIONAL] Covenant! Read & study Hosea 4:6 with [our] last day [INCREASED KNOWLEDGE]. (even AFTER we have all of the Master's Word RECORDED.
Response:
No comment.
You write:
You might wonder why the GodHead . . .
Reponse:
I don't believe in a godhead. The Father is God. Jesus became the Son of God. God and Son of God are not the same. Jesus is not God. Jesus is not a dual-natured creature. Jesus the man could be tempted (Hebrews 4:15). God could not (James 1:13). But that's a discussion for another part of the forum, isn't it.
You write:
tested the first pair of Their [PERFECTLY CREATED] ones in the first place? Who by the way, were neither called Jews. The reason was that [ALL] of Their creating were [NOT] created with a [MATURE] Character! (even the other world's' as is twice stated in the Heb. chapters) This they had to develope. Surely the provision 'IN CHRIST' was given, yet it was their free DECISION to make!
Response:
Adam and Eve were safe by obedience to law and lost according to law and saved by God their Father's prerogative.
You're a smart dude, John. It will be interesting talking with you from time to time.
: A workless or D-E-A-D James 2 1/2 Gospel, which is not only 1/2 Gospel, but equals NO GOSPEL AT ALL! 
