101 biblical points; How the saved know they are secure in salvation

[smaller]

I understand, but I don't have one the is the hardest to answer. I know I'm saved and I am totally secure in my salvation. I don't know what it's like to think I can't be saved.

Some are led into casting doubts.

Most of the counter scripture sets do point to the fact that one can indeed not believe they are saved in this present life.

I chalk that form of blindness up to the adversary, but believe those believers will be saved anyway regardless of their weak, even extinguished faith.

"For if our heart condemn us, God is greater than our heart, and knoweth all things."

"Whosoever shall confess that Jesus is the Son of God, God dwelleth in him, and he in God."

God in Christ does not bring us into a revolving door relationship.

s

 

[smaller]

Come on BA.;) I just put 101 point's with verses to back it up. I had to use 3 post to get it all in. It's from the bible. READ IT for yourself. I can't help you know your saved. Only God can. If you want to have faith in not being saved, or know for sure you are saved and loved by God then Ok, but keep in mind that that type of faith is the same as those who don't believe in God at all. They also would agree with you that they can't know they are saved also.

Quote of the day.

 

[BornAgain]

Come on BA.;) I just put 101 point's with verses to back it up. I had to use 3 post to get it all in. It's from the bible. READ IT for yourself. I can't help you know your saved. Only God can. If you want to have faith in not being saved, or know for sure you are saved and loved by God then Ok, but keep in mind that that type of faith is the same as those who don't believe in God at all. They also would agree with you that they can't know they are saved also.

Danus, come on....we didn't need to waste all this time and space that everybody passed over to get to your original point, which is how the saved know they are in secure salvation. We are never in secure salvation. Let us just say for example, you have an affair, you went to church that morning but decided to see a friend, you have an affair and you "think" you are ok and then get in a car accident. You have had an extra marital affair....Are you going to be saved or go to hell?

 

[Danus]

Some are led into casting doubts.

Most of the counter scripture sets do point to the fact that one can indeed not believe they are saved in this present life.

I chalk that form of blindness up to the adversary, but believe those believers will be saved anyway regardless of their weak, even extinguished faith.

"For if our heart condemn us, God is greater than our heart, and knoweth all things."

"Whosoever shall confess that Jesus is the Son of God, God dwelleth in him, and he in God."

God in Christ does not bring us into a revolving door relationship.

s

I agree. I'm glad that's not an affliction I face, but I'm not so proud to think I can't be fooled as well. But, God never changes. He's always been where he's always been and a right relation ship with Him strengthens the faith he gives so that the tempter knows your virtually off limits.

 

[BornAgain]

I agree. I'm glad that's not an affliction I face, but I'm not so proud to think I can't be fooled as well. But, God never changes. He's always been where he's always been and a right relation ship with Him strengthens the faith he gives so that the tempter knows your virtually off limits.

Be wary of false doctrine....

—Man was carnal and could not receive and cherish in his carnal heart the abiding Spirit. The mind perceived the truth, but his heart, unchanged and dominated by the flesh, did not cherish or obey it, and while in that condition could not be freed from sin.

 

[smaller]

I agree. I'm glad that's not an affliction I face, but I'm not so proud to think I can't be fooled as well. But, God never changes. He's always been where he's always been and a right relation ship with Him strengthens the faith he gives so that the tempter knows your virtually off limits.

Ultimately those who try to pin non-salvation on other believers (it's seldom if ever pinned on themselves) have a petty little power monger inside of their hearts.

Most of them deep inside really desire to see other believers burn alive forever when seeking to place them in a position of non-secure faith.

I feel quite sorry for them. But there are many such peeueeews.

Believe like me or fry alive forever is the cry of the dark power monger in the hearts of the carriers.

Unfortunately they just don't know it. They can peddle their non-salvation of believers to other believers who are likewise weak. Their laundry lists do not interest me. But their bottom line is identical. They all seek to destroy other believers, all the while claiming not.

If I had a nickel for every one of these types of believers who tried to lay on me that I was going to burn alive forever because I am secure in my faith I would be wealthy.

The usual refrain is 'oh brother, I am soooo concerned for your salvation' all the while casting doubts on faith. The real matter is inside they want and seek other believers to burn alive forever.

They don't fool me one bit. I see past them and see who has usurped them inside.

The accuser of the brethren. I still believe they are saved though.

s

 

[BornAgain]

I agree. I'm glad that's not an affliction I face, but I'm not so proud to think I can't be fooled as well. But, God never changes. He's always been where he's always been and a right relation ship with Him strengthens the faith he gives so that the tempter knows your virtually off limits.

Danus,

We can be persuaded...Hebrews 6:9 (KJV)
9 But, beloved, we are persuaded better things of you, and things that accompany salvation, though we thus speak.

 

[BornAgain]

Ultimately those who try to pin non-salvation on other believers (it's seldom if ever pinned on themselves) have a petty little power monger inside of their hearts.

Most of them deep inside really desire to see other believers burn alive forever when seeking to place them in a position of non-secure faith.

I feel quite sorry for them. But there are many such peeueeews.

Believe like me or fry alive forever is the cry of the dark power monger in the hearts of the carriers.

Unfortunately they just don't know it. They can peddle their non-salvation of believers to other believers who are likewise weak. Their laundry lists do not interest me. But their bottom line is identical. They all seek to destroy other believers, all the while claiming not.

If I had a nickel for every one of these types of believers who tried to lay on me that I was going to burn alive forever because I am secure in my faith I would be wealthy.

The usual refrain is 'oh brother, I am soooo concerned for your salvation' all the while casting doubts on faith. The real matter is inside they want and seek other believers to burn alive forever.

They don't fool me one bit. I see past them and see who has usurped them inside.

The accuser of the brethren. I still believe they are saved though.

s

Okay smaller, state your case and what it is you believe in. Can you or not?

 

[Danus]

Danus, come on....we didn't need to waste all this time and space that everybody passed over to get to your original point, which is how the saved know they are in secure salvation. We are never in secure salvation. Let us just say for example, you have an affair, you went to church that morning but decided to see a friend, you have an affair and you "think" you are ok and then get in a car accident. You have had an extra marital affair....Are you going to be saved or go to hell?

Well, we tend to judge others from the outside, on the surface. God judges the heart. Our new nature in salvation is a work in us that manifest itself to the surface in many ways. It does display in our character, but people also put on the character they want others to see.

So our new nature is not one that would be allowing our heart to agree with having an affair, but our old nature would. The old nature still resides in us, but we yield it to the new, and as we grow in Christ, we begin to see the world through His eyes and we yield more and more in faith which grows.

So, to make up a hypothetical situation where someone commits a sin or does not commit a sin and is judged for that alone, is to miss the point of salvation entirely. It's a question like, "have you told your mother you are a murderer", and telling someone they can only answer yes or no to the question. It's false dichotomy to being with.

We need to understand that sin is as much a part of who we are as an egg yoke is to a scrambled egg. Can you separate a scrambled egg? NO.

The saved are given a new nature, but the old is still there. Their new nature is in their heart with the old, but the old yields to the new. That's not to say that the old does not raise up at times, but it is put down by the new. You can slip in your willfulness to sin, but that does not mean your out of Grace if you are in God's Grace. The saved do not stay in a state of willful sin, but grow in their newness in their relationship with God, and his will for them.

That 's why it is not possible to place a legalistic standard on salvation to say if you do X then die you won't be saved, because X is a sin. We are all sinners anyway, and we can not judge the righteousness of others and compare ourselves in that way.

Grace, Mercy, and forgiveness are what the saved get. (period) Some are better than others by man's standard, but to say one is any more deserving than the other because of something in their character is to misunderstand what sin really is, and what God's message of Grace mercy and forgiveness is.

 

[smaller]

Okay smaller, state your case and what it is you believe in. Can you or not?

The intention to lay insecure faith on other believers is not in my hands nor does it interest me other than to get at the heart of such intentions.

The determinist already knows that on the basis of sin, none of us are getting in.

That is the primary difference between Grace and the insecure of faith.

s

 

[BornAgain]

The intention to lay insecure faith on other believers is not in my hands nor does it interest me other than to get at the heart of such intentions.

The determinist already knows that on the basis of sin, none of us are getting in.

That is the primary difference between Grace and the insecure of faith.

s

None of us have secure faith...so the rest of your case is nonsense.

 

[smaller]

None of us have secure faith...so the rest of your case is nonsense.

That is your claim, obviously.

You may have it or you may not. I really can't say for you. You say for yourself.

s

 

[BornAgain]

Well, we tend to judge others from the outside, on the surface. God judges the heart. Our new nature in salvation is a work in us that manifest itself to the surface in many ways. It does display in our character, but people also put on the character they want others to see.

So our new nature is not one that would be allowing our heart to agree with having an affair, but our old nature would. The old nature still resides in us, but we yield it to the new, and as we grow in Christ, we begin to see the world through His eyes and we yield more and more in faith which grows.

So, to make up a hypothetical situation where someone commits a sin or does not commit a sin and is judged for that alone, is to miss the point of salvation entirely. It's a question like, "have you told your mother you are a murderer", and telling someone they can only answer yes or no to the question. It's false dichotomy to being with.

We need to understand that sin is as much a part of who we are as an egg yoke is to a scrambled egg. Can you separate a scrambled egg? NO.

The saved are given a new nature, but the old is still there. Their new nature is in their heart with the old, but the old yields to the new. That's not to say that the old does not raise up at times, but it is put down by the new. You can slip in your willfulness to sin, but that does not mean your out of Grace if you are in God's Grace. The saved do not stay in a state of willful sin, but grow in their newness in their relationship with God, and his will for them.

That 's why it is not possible to place a legalistic standard on salvation to say if you do X then die you won't be saved, because X is a sin. We are all sinners anyway, and we can not judge the righteousness of others and compare ourselves in that way.

Grace, Mercy, and forgiveness are what the saved get. (period) Some are better than others by man's standard, but to say one is any more deserving than the other because of something in their character is to misunderstand what sin really is, and what God's message of Grace mercy and forgiveness is.

Danus,

Let's not dance around the egg yolk. Do you believe that one can be saved before another?

 

[abide]

Danus how would you explain

Matthew 24: 13 Only those who endure to the end shall be saved. The reverse of this statement is true..IF you do not endure, you cannot be saved. This is the verse I struggle with when I hear people talk about once saved always saved.

Matthew 25: 10 And while they went to buy, the bridegroom came, and they that were ready went in with him to the marriage and the door was shut.

Revelation 14:9 And the third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, IF any man worship the beast and his image and receive the mark in his forehead, or in his hand.

The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the lamb.

Since none of us who are believers know whether or not we will allow ourselves to receive the mark, we cannot say our salvation is assured.. Paul said to fight the good fight of faith. This will be a critical time for all believers, since our faith will be tested severly. The Christian path is likened to a race..so only those who end up reaching the end will receive their crown.

Danus despite the scriptures you have used, I cannot get around the idea that once saved always save.

 

[Danus]

Danus how would you explain

Matthew 24: 13 Only those who endure to the end shall be saved. The reverse of this statement is true..IF you do not endure, you cannot be saved. This is the verse I struggle with when I hear people talk about once saved always saved.

Matthew 25: 10 And while they went to buy, the bridegroom came, and they that were ready went in with him to the marriage and the door was shut.

Revelation 14:9 And the third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, IF any man worship the beast and his image and receive the mark in his forehead, or in his hand.

The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the lamb.

Since none of us who are believers know whether or not we will allow ourselves to receive the mark, we cannot say our salvation is assured.. Paul said to fight the good fight of faith. This will be a critical time for all believers, since our faith will be tested severly. The Christian path is likened to a race..so only those who end up reaching the end will receive their crown.

Danus despite the scriptures you have used, I cannot get around the idea that once saved always save.

Sorry for the delay. Doing chores in between answering.

So your question is, how do I explain these verse in relation to salvation? humm, my first thought is do these verses suggest the saved are not saved? Matt. 24 is Jesus describing the end of the age. Matt: 25 is the parable of the 10 virgins and Rev 14 describes the Lamb and the 144,000. These are often related to end times discussions, which this is not, but you have worked it in to the discussion of salvation.

Do these verses say that the saved are not saved? No they don't. Matt 24:13 describes the nature of the saved to endure. Matt 25:10 is a parable of 10 virgins which there where some foolish ones who where not prepared. I guess the thought you may have is that those who are secure in their salvation are foolish and just do what they want. However, that's not the case.

No one says "hey your saved so party and sin", but for some reason that's the message to those who are not sure when it comes to this.

Knowing your salvation is to believe. Security in that knowledge of belief is by faith and a relationship with God.

I would say that those who do not know they are saved or can't know for sure are dealing with some sort of guilt they harbor about something in their past, or present that is keeping them from a relationship with God. I can't know what that might be.

Listen, I was a strong willful sinner who did not believe in God and never cared about it. I'll put my former willful sinful life against anyone's here. like the blind man, all I can say is that I was blind and now I see. I have no desire to go back to being blind.

I do not worry about loosing my salvation. I know where it is. It's in Christ and he's where he's always been even when I was far away from him. He's tested me plenty and will continue. I'm done. I've died. I only live in Christ.

As for the end times. I don't bother with that junk. I don't need to. can't wait if it to happens in my life time. I welcome it. I don't care if I'm killed this afternoon or 99 years from now. This life is not about me.

 

[Danus]

Danus,

Let's not dance around the egg yolk. Do you believe that one can be saved before another?

Do I believe some are saved and some are not? Yes. And it has nothing to do with their sin, but rather their hearts and if they truly trust in Christ as their savior or not.

 

[BornAgain]

Sorry for the delay. Doing chores in between answering.

So your question is, how do I explain these verse in relation to salvation? humm, my first thought is do these verses suggest the saved are not saved? Matt. 24 is Jesus describing the end of the age. Matt: 25 is the parable of the 10 virgins and Rev 14 describes the Lamb and the 144,000. These are often related to end times discussions, which this is not, but you have worked it in to the discussion of salvation.

Do these verses say that the saved are not saved? No they don't. Matt 24:13 describes the nature of the saved to endure. Matt 25:10 is a parable of 10 virgins which there where some foolish ones who where not prepared. I guess the thought you may have is that those who are secure in their salvation are foolish and just do what they want. However, that's not the case.

No one says "hey your saved so party and sin", but for some reason that's the message to those who are not sure when it comes to this.

Knowing your salvation is to believe. Security in that knowledge of belief is by faith and a relationship with God.

I would say that those who do not know they are saved or can't know for sure are dealing with some sort of guilt they harbor about something in their past, or present that is keeping them from a relationship with God. I can't know what that might be.

Listen, I was a strong willful sinner who did not believe in God and never cared about it. I'll put my former willful sinful life against anyone's here. like the blind man, all I can say is that I was blind and now I see. I have no desire to go back to being blind.

I do not worry about loosing my salvation. I know where it is. It's in Christ and he's where he's always been even when I was far away from him. He's tested me plenty and will continue. I'm done. I've died. I only live in Christ.

As for the end times. I don't bother with that junk. I don't need to. can't wait if it to happens in my life time. I welcome it. I don't care if I'm killed this afternoon or 99 years from now. This life is not about me.

Sorry Danus you are way off. I am where you are. Sorry...

 

[BornAgain]

Do I believe some are saved and some are not? Yes. And it has nothing to do with their sin, but rather their hearts and if they truly trust in Christ as their savior or not.

Why and how do you know that?

 

[Danus]

Sorry Danus you are way off. I am where you are. Sorry...

I don't know what this means.

Why and how do you know that?

You're killing me. :p.....I'm starting to think you trying to get me to read the bible for you.

OK, verses that describe the unsaved. I don't know why I'm doing this, but here goes. We'll start with what Paul says of the unsaved.

Paul said (Rom. 1:18) that the “wrath of God” is “revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men.” In the next chapter (Rom. 2:5) he said men “treasure up wrath” for themselves. A little later he said sin leads to “death” (Rom. 6:16). The unsaved will face God’s “severity” (Rom. 11:22). In the next letter, First Corinthians, Paul said the “unrighteous” (the unsaved) will “not inherit the kingdom of God.” In other places like Eph. 5:5 he said “no whoremonger, nor unclean person, nor covetous man, who is an idolater, hath any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God.” The “wrath to come” (1 Thess. 1:10) will come upon the unsaved and this will involve “flaming fire” on “those who know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ” (2 Thess. 1:5-8). Paul said the unsaved will be “punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power” (2 Thess. 1:9). Peter said God’s “face is against them that do evil” (the unsaved, 1 Pet. 3:12). Are these a good start or would you like to see where God chooses some for salvation and not others?

 

[BornAgain]

I don't know what this means.



You're killing me. :p.....I'm starting to think you trying to get me to read the bible for you.

OK, verses that describe the unsaved. I don't know why I'm doing this, but here goes. We'll start with what Paul says of the unsaved.

Paul said (Rom. 1:18) that the “wrath of God†is “revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men.†In the next chapter (Rom. 2:5) he said men “treasure up wrath†for themselves. A little later he said sin leads to “death†(Rom. 6:16). The unsaved will face God’s “severity†(Rom. 11:22). In the next letter, First Corinthians, Paul said the “unrighteous†(the unsaved) will “not inherit the kingdom of God.†In other places like Eph. 5:5 he said “no whoremonger, nor unclean person, nor covetous man, who is an idolater, hath any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God.†The “wrath to come†(1 Thess. 1:10) will come upon the unsaved and this will involve “flaming fire†on “those who know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ†(2 Thess. 1:5-8). Paul said the unsaved will be “punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power†(2 Thess. 1:9). Peter said God’s “face is against them that do evil†(the unsaved, 1 Pet. 3:12). Are these a good start or would you like to see where God chooses some for salvation and not others?

That is a good start...but you error when you say some are good for salvation and not others...