2,520 Days of the Tribulation from Feast of Trumpets 2015 to Tisha B'Av 2022

[noselfwilling]

The Tribulation 2015 - 2022​

People need to see the Tribulation is very near! I am about to fearfully share something with you. If I don't explain this just right you will lose the feeling for it.

A Total Lunar Tetrad is when there are 4 Total Lunar Eclipses in a row over 2 years. Sometimes several centuries can go by in which there are none. They are even more rare when they fall on Passover, Tabernacles and again, on Passover and Tabernacles. In 1949/50 and 1967/68 was when just such lunar eclipses occurred. Israel became a nation May 14, 1948 and the armistice treatise was signed 1949. Israel entered Jerusalem on June 7, 1967. The next Total Lunar Tetrad on feast days is 2014/15 (8th since Christ). There won't be another till 2582/83. If the Tetrad is associated with the return of Christ because it is associated with the return of Israel, would it take over 600 years from 1948 for Jesus to return? I don't think so. Out of the 5 feast Tetrads since Christ before the 20th century, there was only one century which had two Tetrads so that is about a 5% (1/19) chance the 20th century could have two Tetrads. The probability one of the Tetrads would fall on either 1949/50 or 1967/68 is a 2% (2/100) chance and the other Tetrad on the remaining date is a 1% (1/99) chance. So the probability the Tetrad could fall on these two necessary dates in the 20th century was 5% x 2% x 1% = 1 in 100,000 chance.

"From the fig tree learn its lesson: as soon as its branch becomes tender and puts forth its leaves, you know that summer is near. So also, when you see all these things, you know that he is near, at the very gates" (Matt. 24.32-33). The fig tree always represents Israel which began putting forth its leaves in 1948 even earlier. When this occurs Jesus' return is very near! God is placing these Lunar Tetrads right on top of Israel's most important events to tell us He is thinking of them and letting the Church know His return is right at the door. By 2015 it will be 67 years since 1948. Some consider verse 34 to be the return of Jesus within a generation after Israel becomes a nation: "Truly, I say to you, this generation will not pass away till all these things take place." My view is 'this generation' refers to the ongoing morally wicked generation these past two thousand years but consummated in this final generation. Would Jesus return 100 years or more after Israel becomes a nation? It would not seem to make sense given what Matt. 24 says and Rev. 6: "And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood" (v.12). I'll explain.

Three things happen in order (Rev. 6.12): 1) earthquake (Haiti earthquake in 2010 was the 5th worst natural disaster in history; or another disaster could could occur 2011-2013, possibly in United States, because none of the top ten disasters have touched North America), 2) a very unique solar eclipse, and 3) a very unique lunar eclipse. It is difficult to get people to understand that Revelation 6 is the past 20 centuries and is general in nature, but try to suspend your judgment for the moment and treat the 1/4 that are killed (v.8) as being a different time than the 1/3 that are killed (9.18) so that the sixth Seal which contains these three events will occur shortly before the Tribulation starts. The sixth Seal precedes the First Rapture to "the throne" (Rev. 7.9) that is according to readiness (Matt. 24.40-42, Luke 21.36, Rev. 3.10) and is before the 7th Seal (8.1) which opens up the blowing of the 7 Trumpets of the Tribulation - Daniel's last "unit of seven" (Dan. 9.27). The first Trumpet is blown first (8.7ff) and the first 4 Trumpets are completed in the first 1260 days of the 2,520 days of the Tribulation. The Tribulation is loud like trumpets. Much is going on. The past 20 centuries are the mystery age of the Church (7 church periods in Rev 2 & 3) where the Seals are opened secretly. Have you not had the feeling you are a sojourner in the world, and those who are not saved seem to not understand us at all no matter how much we explain God's redemptive design to them? They are more interested in the world so they carry on in the world.

The first Seal recounts the cross as though Jesus were newly slain in Rev. 5: "As though it had been slain" (v.6) is, in the original, rendered "as though it had been newlyslain"—This clearly proves that this is the scene of the ascension of the Lord. Although the death of the Lord is forever fresh, the word here designates it as being newly slain. In the first Seal the work of the cross is revealed as shown by the image of a bow but the arrow has been shot giving Satan a deadly wound by the cross when Jesus died not only your sins, but the sins of the whole world for forgiveness of sins. A bow strikes from afar as the Conqueror goes forth to conquer from this point of authority (v.5). He is the same Rider in chapter 19. He also brings us to sure death (co-death) with Him on the cross to our old man for power over sin and self. If our old man has died what does Satan have to work with through our flesh? Thus, we are able to put to nought the deeds of the flesh because we accept God's pronouncement we have died with Jesus on that eternal cross, are resurrected in our spirits now (touching the heavenly), and will be resurrected bodily and soulically in a resurrection like His. Nothing can separate us from the love of the One True God.

We have accounted for the earthquake and the lunar eclipse but what about the solar eclipse in between? There are 4 kinds of solar eclipses. The rarest is the Hybrid eclipse which occurs about 5% of the time. There are 3 kinds of Hybrids, the rarest which is the H3 at about 4% of the time. And there are two kinds of eclipses - short and long-dated. On Nov. 3, 2013 we will witness a long-dated H3 Solar Eclipse (4th since Christ). The probability of this type of eclipse occurring in the 21st century right next to and in front of the 2014/15 Tetrad is approximately 1 in 700 (3/20 centuries x 1/100 years in a century). Combine this with the Total Lunar Tetrad, the odds decrease substantially for these two events to be connected and come together in the precise order required by verse 12 of chapter 6. 1/700 x 1/100,000 = 1 in 70,000,000. Could we ask for a better sign for the beginning of the Tribulation to occur? I can't think of one.

Daniel's seventy sets of seven (Dan. 9.24-27) are 7 years x 360 days per year = 2,520 days each. 2,520 is the smallest divisible number by all numbers from 2 to 10, so it is a basic working unit in Daniel's vision. I believe the last 3 feasts pertain to the return of Jesus while the first 4 feasts were about His first coming. The Feast of Trumpets is associated to the First Rapture according to readiness (Luke 21.36, Rev. 3.10). There are 2,520 days from Sept. 14, 2015 (Feast of Trumpets) to Tisha B'Av, Aug. 7, 2022. Tisha B'Av is the day the Jews commemorate the destruction of the 1st and 2nd Temples. This is significant because Jesus returns to reign in the 3rd Temple. What's even more interesting is that normally Tisha B'Av takes place on Av 9, but when Av 9 falls on a Sabbath the Jews commemorate it the day after. It so happens than in the year 2022, Av 9 occurs on a Sabbath (Aug. 6) so Tisha B'Av is held on Sunday instead (Av 10) which amazingly is the 2,520 day from Sept. 14, 2015 (Feast of Trumpets). Aug. 6, 2022 was the 2519th day. It is also nice to see Jesus returns on a Sunday since that is the day He resurrected.

Christian Forums - I Do Not Know How to Disprove the Tribulation from 2015 to 2022

 

[Scotth1960]

The Tribulation 2015 - 2022​

People need to see the Tribulation is very near! I am about to fearfully share something with you. If I don't explain this just right you will lose the feeling for it.

A Total Lunar Tetrad is when there are 4 Total Lunar Eclipses in a row over 2 years. Sometimes several centuries can go by in which there are none. They are even more rare when they fall on Passover, Tabernacles and again, on Passover and Tabernacles. In 1949/50 and 1967/68 was when just such lunar eclipses occurred. Israel became a nation May 14, 1948 and the armistice treatise was signed 1949. Israel entered Jerusalem on June 7, 1967. The next Total Lunar Tetrad on feast days is 2014/15 (8th since Christ). There won't be another till 2582/83. If the Tetrad is associated with the return of Christ because it is associated with the return of Israel, would it take over 600 years from 1948 for Jesus to return? I don't think so. Out of the 5 feast Tetrads since Christ before the 20th century, there was only one century which had two Tetrads so that is about a 5% (1/19) chance the 20th century could have two Tetrads. The probability one of the Tetrads would fall on either 1949/50 or 1967/68 is a 2% (2/100) chance and the other Tetrad on the remaining date is a 1% (1/99) chance. So the probability the Tetrad could fall on these two necessary dates in the 20th century was 5% x 2% x 1% = 1 in 100,000 chance.

"From the fig tree learn its lesson: as soon as its branch becomes tender and puts forth its leaves, you know that summer is near. So also, when you see all these things, you know that he is near, at the very gates" (Matt. 24.32-33). The fig tree always represents Israel which began putting forth its leaves in 1948 even earlier. When this occurs Jesus' return is very near! God is placing these Lunar Tetrads right on top of Israel's most important events to tell us He is thinking of them and letting the Church know His return is right at the door. By 2015 it will be 67 years since 1948. Some consider verse 34 to be the return of Jesus within a generation after Israel becomes a nation: "Truly, I say to you, this generation will not pass away till all these things take place." My view is 'this generation' refers to the ongoing morally wicked generation these past two thousand years but consummated in this final generation. Would Jesus return 100 years or more after Israel becomes a nation? It would not seem to make sense given what Matt. 24 says and Rev. 6: "And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood" (v.12). I'll explain.

Three things happen in order (Rev. 6.12): 1) earthquake (Haiti earthquake in 2010 was the 5th worst natural disaster in history; or another disaster could could occur 2011-2013, possibly in United States, because none of the top ten disasters have touched North America), 2) a very unique solar eclipse, and 3) a very unique lunar eclipse. It is difficult to get people to understand that Revelation 6 is the past 20 centuries and is general in nature, but try to suspend your judgment for the moment and treat the 1/4 that are killed (v.8) as being a different time than the 1/3 that are killed (9.18) so that the sixth Seal which contains these three events will occur shortly before the Tribulation starts. The sixth Seal precedes the First Rapture to "the throne" (Rev. 7.9) that is according to readiness (Matt. 24.40-42, Luke 21.36, Rev. 3.10) and is before the 7th Seal (8.1) which opens up the blowing of the 7 Trumpets of the Tribulation - Daniel's last "unit of seven" (Dan. 9.27). The first Trumpet is blown first (8.7ff) and the first 4 Trumpets are completed in the first 1260 days of the 2,520 days of the Tribulation. The Tribulation is loud like trumpets. Much is going on. The past 20 centuries are the mystery age of the Church (7 church periods in Rev 2 & 3) where the Seals are opened secretly. Have you not had the feeling you are a sojourner in the world, and those who are not saved seem to not understand us at all no matter how much we explain God's redemptive design to them? They are more interested in the world so they carry on in the world.

The first Seal recounts the cross as though Jesus were newly slain in Rev. 5: "As though it had been slain" (v.6) is, in the original, rendered "as though it had been newlyslain"—This clearly proves that this is the scene of the ascension of the Lord. Although the death of the Lord is forever fresh, the word here designates it as being newly slain. In the first Seal the work of the cross is revealed as shown by the image of a bow but the arrow has been shot giving Satan a deadly wound by the cross when Jesus died not only your sins, but the sins of the whole world for forgiveness of sins. A bow strikes from afar as the Conqueror goes forth to conquer from this point of authority (v.5). He is the same Rider in chapter 19. He also brings us to sure death (co-death) with Him on the cross to our old man for power over sin and self. If our old man has died what does Satan have to work with through our flesh? Thus, we are able to put to nought the deeds of the flesh because we accept God's pronouncement we have died with Jesus on that eternal cross, are resurrected in our spirits now (touching the heavenly), and will be resurrected bodily and soulically in a resurrection like His. Nothing can separate us from the love of the One True God.

We have accounted for the earthquake and the lunar eclipse but what about the solar eclipse in between? There are 4 kinds of solar eclipses. The rarest is the Hybrid eclipse which occurs about 5% of the time. There are 3 kinds of Hybrids, the rarest which is the H3 at about 4% of the time. And there are two kinds of eclipses - short and long-dated. On Nov. 3, 2013 we will witness a long-dated H3 Solar Eclipse (4th since Christ). The probability of this type of eclipse occurring in the 21st century right next to and in front of the 2014/15 Tetrad is approximately 1 in 700 (3/20 centuries x 1/100 years in a century). Combine this with the Total Lunar Tetrad, the odds decrease substantially for these two events to be connected and come together in the precise order required by verse 12 of chapter 6. 1/700 x 1/100,000 = 1 in 70,000,000. Could we ask for a better sign for the beginning of the Tribulation to occur? I can't think of one.

Daniel's seventy sets of seven (Dan. 9.24-27) are 7 years x 360 days per year = 2,520 days each. 2,520 is the smallest divisible number by all numbers from 2 to 10, so it is a basic working unit in Daniel's vision. I believe the last 3 feasts pertain to the return of Jesus while the first 4 feasts were about His first coming. The Feast of Trumpets is associated to the First Rapture according to readiness (Luke 21.36, Rev. 3.10). There are 2,520 days from Sept. 14, 2015 (Feast of Trumpets) to Tisha B'Av, Aug. 7, 2022. Tisha B'Av is the day the Jews commemorate the destruction of the 1st and 2nd Temples. This is significant because Jesus returns to reign in the 3rd Temple. What's even more interesting is that normally Tisha B'Av takes place on Av 9, but when Av 9 falls on a Sabbath the Jews commemorate it the day after. It so happens than in the year 2022, Av 9 occurs on a Sabbath (Aug. 6) so Tisha B'Av is held on Sunday instead (Av 10) which amazingly is the 2,520 day from Sept. 14, 2015 (Feast of Trumpets). Aug. 6, 2022 was the 2519th day. It is also nice to see Jesus returns on a Sunday since that is the day He resurrected.

Christian Forums - I Do Not Know How to Disprove the Tribulation from 2015 to 2022

Dear friends, ISTM, just another FALSE PROPHECY from someone who IGNORES SCRIPTURE and IGNORES THE WORDS OF JESUS CHRIST, Who said, "NO MAN KNOWS THE DAY NOR THE HOUR, BUT ONLY MY FATHER WHICH IS IN HEAVEN" (Matthew). In Erie PA Scott Harrington

 

[noselfwilling]

You will know I am wrong when 2013 and 2014 roll by and Israel doesn't begin construction on the 3rd Temple.

 

[noselfwilling]

Dear friends, ISTM, just another FALSE PROPHECY from someone who IGNORES SCRIPTURE and IGNORES THE WORDS OF JESUS CHRIST, Who said, "NO MAN KNOWS THE DAY NOR THE HOUR, BUT ONLY MY FATHER WHICH IS IN HEAVEN" (Matthew). In Erie PA Scott Harrington

I don't know the hour of the end of the millennial kingdom. Nobody does. That's a long ways away. The millennial kingdom hasn't even started yet since Jesus hasn't returned yet.

"Heaven and earth shall pass away" (Matt. 24.35). Heaven and earth doesn't pass away when Jesus returns and the millennium stars.

But the Bible says we can know when the Tribulation starts: "know...even at the doors" (Matt. 24.33). We are at the doors now. Hallelujah!

Now we know since Israel is a nation again. Jesus knows now since He is at the right hand of the Father so He reveals to us by His Spirit how to read God's word properly.

 

[jasoncran]

I don't know the hour of the end of the millennial kingdom. Nobody does. That's a long ways away. The millennial kingdom hasn't even started yet since Jesus hasn't returned yet.

"Heaven and earth shall pass away" (Matt. 24.35). Heaven and earth doesn't pass away when Jesus returns and the millennium stars.

But the Bible says we can know when the Tribulation starts: "know...even at the doors" (Matt. 24.33). We are at the doors now. Hallelujah!

Now we know since Israel is a nation again. Jesus knows now since He is at the right hand of the Father so He reveals to us by His Spirit how to read God's word properly.

but if we know the rapture(and all pre-tribbers use the one week being the last seven yrs)

we then know when the millenium starts.

that isnt what the bible says.

if we are that close then we could slack off yrs ago got busy and be ok. that isnt what the lord wants.

 

[reba]

if we are that close then we could slack off yrs ago got busy and be ok. that isnt what the lord wants.

you are to much


My parents must have had the med trib view.... being rebelous about 1960 told mom don't worry Mom i will get to heaven i will do what i want. Then die because i wont take the mark no big deal........

 

[jasoncran]

tis these types that cause men to stumble.

its one thing to be a pre-tribber and state what i say, he comes when he comes.

be about the fathers business(which i need to do more).

i did mention here that a friend believes as he does above and moved all to costa rica to await the lord's return, sadly the sinners at work scoff him and now us as a whole.

 

[reba]

Seems we like HEAD LINES over the body of the story.


I dont find a scripture that tells me to search, look, wonder,and carry on , for some antichrist.

Heb 9:28 So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many; and unto them that look for him shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation.

 

[noselfwilling]

but if we know the rapture(and all pre-tribbers use the one week being the last seven yrs)

we then know when the millenium starts.

that isnt what the bible says.

if we are that close then we could slack off yrs ago got busy and be ok. that isnt what the lord wants.

If you are slack then according to partial rapture you won't be received at the first rapture because you did not keep the word of His patience to escape the hour of trial that is to come upon the whole world (Rev. 3.10).

And since you don't believe what I told you anyway, you have already conceded you won't be ready since you reject the first rapture Sept. 14, 2015 "before the throne" (Rev. 7.9) in 3rd heaven.

The Partial Rapture Proof

 

[jasoncran]

If you are slack then according to partial rapture you won't be received at the first rapture because you did not keep the word of His patience to escape the hour of trial that is to come upon the whole world (Rev. 3.10).

And since you don't believe what I told you anyway, you have already conceded you won't be ready since you reject the first rapture Sept. 14, 2015 "before the throne" (Rev. 7.9) in 3rd heaven.

The Partial Rapture Proof

are you sure? that sure.

if you believe that you have the exact date of the rapture to be done? then why not his return as that is the beggining of the tribulation

remember who has to come on the scene so that isreal can build the temple per daniel

the anti-christ!

me thinks you have it off as you cant have the temple without the ac being worshipped in it and then the beast on the scene as well(42 month reign per revalation 13)

besides ones salvations isnt hindered or set in ones believe in the type of eschatological view that was my point.

 

[noselfwilling]

if you believe that you have the exact date of the rapture to be done? then why not his return as that is the beggining of the tribulation

I know the exact date of the start of the Tribulation, Sept. 14, 2015, Feast of Trumpets which commences the 7 year Tribulation of 2,520 days. The 2,520 day is when Jesus steps down on the mount of olives on Aug. 7, 2022 Tisha B'Av.

remember who has to come on the scene so that isreal can build the temple per daniel the anti-christ!

The Temple needs to begin construction in 2013 or 2014 so it can be completed by the 220th day of the Tribulation April 20, 2016 that leaves 2300 days left into the Tribulation from April 21, 2016 to Aug. 7, 2022.

me thinks you have it off as you cant have the temple without the ac being worshipped in it and then the beast on the scene as well(42 month reign per revalation 13)

The idol is not set up in the Temple until midTrib which is 1040 after April 20, 2016.

besides ones salvations isnt hindered or set in ones believe in the type of eschatological view that was my point.

Salvation is based on the precious blood of Jesus for forgiveness of sins, but one can readily see a person is not saved based on false fruit that shows they were never born-again to begin with.

If for example, you are amillennial then you are looking for a false Christ who will not return to reign on earth for 1000 years. If your conscience is so seared to think the 1000 years is now, then clearly you are not a child of God.

Or if you assume you will be raptured before the Tribulation, you may be a Christian, but due to pride and overassuming, you didn't read the word of God properly that says the first rapture is according to readiness and not a foregone conclusion for the whole Church.

When you enter the Tribulation you may not even realize it because a couple million will have vanished and you will accuse them like Satan day and night of being a "fake rapture" because you assumed if it was the rapture you would have been included. You can see false teaching can lead to big problems. It's better to be humble and unassuming and blameless.

Can you do that?

 

[jasoncran]

I know the exact date of the start of the Tribulation, Sept. 14, 2015, Feast of Trumpets which commences the 7 year Tribulation of 2,520 days. The 2,520 day is when Jesus steps down on the mount of olives on Aug. 7, 2022 Tisha B'Av.


The Temple needs to begin construction in 2013 or 2014 so it can be completed by the 220th day of the Tribulation April 20, 2016 that leaves 2300 days left into the Tribulation from April 21, 2016 to Aug. 7, 2022.


The idol is not set up in the Temple until midTrib which is 1040 after April 20, 2016.


Salvation is based on the precious blood of Jesus for forgiveness of sins, but one can readily see a person is not saved based on false fruit that shows they were never born-again to begin with.

If for example, you are amillennial then you are looking for a false Christ who will not return to reign on earth for 1000 years. If your conscience is so seared to think the 1000 years is now, then clearly you are not a child of God.

Or if you assume you will be raptured before the Tribulation, you may be a Christian, but due to pride and overassuming, you didn't read the word of God properly that says the first rapture is according to readiness and not a foregone conclusion for the whole Church.

When you enter the Tribulation you may not even realize it because a couple million will have vanished and you will accuse them like Satan day and night of being a "fake rapture" because you assumed if it was the rapture you would have been included. You can see false teaching can lead to big problems. It's better to be humble and unassuming and blameless.

Can you do that?

since you have claim such authority on scripture and condemned the reformers to hell.

calvin and luther would disagree with you.

and uh, you need to read up when the doctrine of the pre-trib rapture was started(and take note that apostles didnt talk nor say what you speak, and surely they would have come to the same conclusion)


the idea of the pre-trib rapture is less then 200yrs old, it began with a man named scofield

 

[reba]

Now we know since Israel is a nation again. Jesus knows now since He is at the right hand of the Father so He reveals to us by His Spirit how to read God's word properly.

A nation? When have the Jewish people not been a nation? The land does not make a nation. Anyway they do not have the land God gave them. They do not even hold the city of Jerusalem.

Gen 12:2 And I will make of thee a great nation, and I will bless thee, and make thy name great; and thou shalt be a blessing:

 

[noselfwilling]

A nation? When have the Jewish people not been a nation? The land does not make a nation. Anyway they do not have the land God gave them. They do not even hold the city of Jerusalem.

Gen 12:2 And I will make of thee a great nation, and I will bless thee, and make thy name great; and thou shalt be a blessing:

The Jews haven't been a nation for 2500 years. Biblically we are talking about Israel as a nation with land.

"And, behold, the LORD stood above it, and said, I [am] the LORD God of Abraham thy father, and the God of Isaac: the land whereon thou liest, to thee will I give it, and to thy seed" (28.13).

"In the same day the LORD made a covenant with Abram, saying, Unto thy seed have I given this land, from the river of Egypt unto the great river, the river Euphrates" (Gen. 15.18).

Israel holds the land, not all of it though. They own Jerusalem even more so when the Dome of the Rock is torn down in 2013-14.

All the land will be reclaimed of course when Jesus returns. Gen. 12.2 is upon us.

 

[noselfwilling]

since you have claim such authority on scripture and condemned the reformers to hell.

calvin and luther would disagree with you.

They are not Christians since they refused to repent and believe in Christ to be regenerated. They rejected the God who provides sufficient grace to all men to have the choice.

and uh, you need to read up when the doctrine of the pre-trib rapture was started(and take note that apostles didnt talk nor say what you speak, and surely they would have come to the same conclusion)

Ephraem spoke of a pretrib rapture in the 1st century. Even if he didn't I would still accept that the first rapture is according to readiness since Matt. 24.40-42, Luke 21.36, Rev. 3.10 are conditional and before the Tribulation.

These veses are from the Apostles. Call no man your father, that is, don't follow after the church fathers, but stick with what the word of God says.

the idea of the pre-trib rapture is less then 200yrs old, it began with a man named scofield

Not according to Ephraem and not according to Matthew, Luke and John even Paul. What did Paul say?

(1) By reading Matthew 24.42 together with 1 Thessalonians 5.2, 4, it is evident that there are at least two raptures: for note that the first passage suggests rapture before the Tribulation because one must be watchful since he does not know when his Lord will come; while the second passage suggests rapture after the Tribulation because one knows when the day of the Lord shall come.
(2) The places to be raptured towards are also different. Whereas Revelation 7.15 mentions to “the throne of God” and Luke 21.36 mentions “to stand before the Son of man”, 1 Thessalonians 4.17 says that it is to “the air” – Such distinctions would thus indicate that the entire body of believers is not raptured all at one time.
(3) Mark 13 states, “But of that day or that hour knoweth no one, not even the angels in heaven, neither the Son, but the Father” (v.32), So that the day of the coming of Christ is unknown. But 1 Thessalonians 4 declares that “the Lord himself shall descend from heaven, with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God” (v.16). From this second passage we know that the appearing of Christ is after the sounding of the seventh trumpet. And hence the first passage relates to pre-tribulation rapture while the second relates to post-tribulation rapture.

Some argue that according to I Thessalonians 4.15, the living “shall in no wise precede them who are fallen asleep” -The dead are resurrected at the seventh trumpet; and so timewise, rapture occurs after the Tribulation. Now if there is a first rapture, it will have to take place before the resurrection of the dead. But since this verse distinctly says “shall in no wise,” how then can rapture take place twice? Let me say in reply that it is most precious and significant to find in both verse 15 and verse 17 the qualifying clauses “we that are alive, that are left” - Now to be alive is obviously to be left on earth; why, then, is there this apparent unnecessary repetition? Because it implies that there are people who though alive yet have already gone ahead (that is, raptured) and therefore are no longer left on earth. Would Paul enlist himself among this class of people who are alive and are left? Not at all. He uses the word “we” only because he is speaking at that moment of writing, and the proof of this is that since Paul no longer lives today, he cannot be numbered among those who are left on earth. Our summary conclusion to all this is that the third school of interpretation seems to be the correct one - that is to say, that one group of believers will be raptured before the Tribulation while another group of believers will go through the Tribulation and be raptured afterwards.

 

[reba]

They do not have the land. They have not returned. If you are told to go to your house and your a block away you have not returned home.


Gen 15:18 In the same day the LORD made a covenant with Abram, saying, Unto thy seed have I given this land, from the river of Egypt unto the great river, the river Euphrates:





Two rapture? The scriptures are not absolute on one.

 

[jasoncran]

lol. uh jews havent been a nation, till 1948?

really, lets see i'm jewish, and my history in america dates back to pre civil war or the war of 1812.

hmm and we cranman's love isreal.


so believing a rapture is required for salvation?

and i hope you are catholic, coptic, or othordox, and if you have eliminated the reformers as christians then any thing they taught must be totaly wrong as they are false prophets.

even solo fide and solo scriptura.

 

[noselfwilling]

I thought Israel was a nation.

 

[jasoncran]

I thought Israel was a nation.

there are more jews in america , then entire state of isreal and the jews of isreal are the minority there.

and few of them in isreal actually attend the temple.

 

[Nathan]

The Jews haven't been a nation for 2500 years. Biblically we are talking about Israel as a nation with land.

"And, behold, the LORD stood above it, and said, I [am] the LORD God of Abraham thy father, and the God of Isaac: the land whereon thou liest, to thee will I give it, and to thy seed" (28.13).

"In the same day the LORD made a covenant with Abram, saying, Unto thy seed have I given this land, from the river of Egypt unto the great river, the river Euphrates" (Gen. 15.18).

Israel holds the land, not all of it though. They own Jerusalem even more so when the Dome of the Rock is torn down in 2013-14.

All the land will be reclaimed of course when Jesus returns. Gen. 12.2 is upon us.

I usually do not engage in end time talks. But I do believe that we should be looking for Him to return. However, when we take Scripture out of context we will never even come close to "understanding the times".

Gal 3:16 Now the promises were made to Abraham and to his offspring(seed). It does not say, "And to offsprings(seeds)," referring to many, but referring to one, "And to your offspring(seed)," who is Christ.

The Bible is clear when it talks if we would only listen. And just FYI, a friendly reminder, you might want to tone down the accusations. You were treading dangerously close to ToS violations when you suggest someone is not going to be saved. None of us can judge who God has called.