2 Cor 1:22 and 5:5; what is coming?

[JLB]

What is clear from all these verses is that whatever it is that is coming, it is guaranteed. To come, that is.

The verse's you quoted refer to the resurrection from the dead, that is coming.

2 Corinthians 5:5

For we know that if our earthly house, this tent, is destroyed, we have a building from God, a house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens. 2 For in this we groan, earnestly desiring to be clothed with our habitation which is from heaven, 3 if indeed, having been clothed, we shall not be found naked. 4 For we who are in this tent groan, being burdened, not because we want to be unclothed, but further clothed, that mortality may be swallowed up by life. 5 Now He who has prepared us for this very thing is God, who also has given us the Spirit as a guarantee. 2 Corinthians 5:1-5


and again


2 Corinthians 1:22


13 For we are not writing any other things to you than what you read or understand. Now I trust you will understand, even to the end 14 (as also you have understood us in part), that we are your boast as you also are ours, in the day of the Lord Jesus.
15 And in this confidence I intended to come to you before, that you might have a second benefit— 16 to pass by way of you to Macedonia, to come again from Macedonia to you, and be helped by you on my way to Judea. 17 Therefore, when I was planning this, did I do it lightly? Or the things I plan, do I plan according to the flesh, that with me there should be Yes, Yes, and No, No? 18 But as God is faithful, our word to you was not Yes and No. 19 For the Son of God, Jesus Christ, who was preached among you by us—by me, Silvanus, and Timothy—was not Yes and No, but in Him was Yes. 20 For all the promises of God in Him are Yes, and in Him Amen, to the glory of God through us. 21 Now He who establishes us with you in Christ and has anointed us is God, 22 who also has sealed us and given us the Spirit in our hearts as a guarantee. 2 Corinthians 1:13-22


The verse's you quoted in the OP, pertain to, and are concerning the resurrection from the dead, which is coming.


for the hour is coming in which all who are in the graves will hear His voice and come forth—those who have done good, to the resurrection of life, and those who have done evil, to the resurrection of condemnation. John 5:28-29

• those who have done good, to the resurrection of life, and those who have done evil, to the resurrection of condemnation.

 

[FreeGrace]

Who hath also sealed us, and given the earnest of the Spirit in our hearts. 2 Corinthians 1:22
Earnest; Deposit - Strong's 728 - arrabōn
an earnest

1. 
   
   
   • money which in purchases is given as a pledge or down-payment that the full amount will subsequently be paid

In this spiritual transaction, God has pledged His commitment to us, by giving us a down payment, a deposit, an earnest, until the Day of redemption.

Our part, in this transaction is to believe.

EPH 1:13,14 describes INITIAL FAITH. Not continuing faith. iow, one is sealed WHEN one believes.

13 In Him you also trusted, after you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation; in whom also, having believed, you were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise, 14 who is the guarantee of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, to the praise of His glory. Ephesians 1:13-14

Right! "having believed". Is that a present tense verb? No. It is an aorist tense, which has NO CONCERN for time. iow, it refers to a point in time action, not "continuing action".

But, thanks for making my point.

Only those who believe, endure to the end will be saved.

13 But he who endures to the end shall be saved. 14 And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in all the world as a witness to all the nations, and then the end will come. Matthew 24:13-14

The context for this passage is the Tribulation, and has no application to believers in every generation.

20 But he who received the seed on stony places, this is he who hears the word and immediately receives it with joy; 21 yet he has no root in himself, but endures only for a while. For when tribulation or persecution arises because of the word, immediately he stumbles.
Matthew 13:20-21

Where does the passage say that one is saved only if one endures continually?

 

[JLB]

EPH 1:13,14 describes INITIAL FAITH. Not continuing faith. iow, one is sealed WHEN one believes.


Right! "having believed". Is that a present tense verb? No. It is an aorist tense, which has NO CONCERN for time. iow, it refers to a point in time action, not "continuing action".

But, thanks for making my point.


The context for this passage is the Tribulation, and has no application to believers in every generation.


Where does the passage say that one is saved only if one endures continually?

Therefore let that abide in you which you heard from the beginning. If what you heard from the beginning abides in you, you also will abide in the Son and in the Father. 1 John 2:24


Sorry, but a continual believing is required.

The word must remain in you, if which you hold fast to the word, or otherwise your initial believe will have profited you nothing.

 

[JLB]

The context for this passage is the Tribulation, and has no application to believers in every generation.

Tribulation or persecution is one of the principles of salvation, in which a continuing to believe is required.

Only those who believe, endure to the end will be saved.

13 But he who endures to the end shall be saved. 14 And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in all the world as a witness to all the nations, and then the end will come.
Matthew 24:13-14

20 But he who received the seed on stony places, this is he who hears the word and immediately receives it with joy; 21 yet he has no root in himself, but endures only for a while. For when tribulation or persecution arises because of the word, immediately he stumbles. Matthew 13:20-21

• Believe = Endure

13 But the ones on the rock are those who, when they hear, receive the word with joy; and these have no root, who believe for a while and in time of temptation fall away. Luke 8:13



JLB

 

[FreeGrace]

Is someone who believes for a while, then no longer believes, a believer?
JLB

I'm amazed that this question keeps popping up. Once a person believes, they ARE justifed (Rom 5:1), they ARE forgiven (Acts 10:43), they ARE children of God (Gal 3:26), they ARE sealed with the Holy Spirit, as a deposit guaranteeing the day of redemption (Eph 1:13,14), they ARE new creatures (2 Cor 5:17). And they HAVE eternal life (John 5:24 with 10:28).

So the question is not relevant. Where are any verses that any of these things that believers HAVE can be removed? I'm unaware of any.

 

[FreeGrace]

Therefore let that abide in you which you heard from the beginning. If what you heard from the beginning abides in you, you also will abide in the Son and in the Father. 1 John 2:24

Sorry, but a continual believing is required.

Please, no need to be sorry. Of course continual believing is required for fellowship (abiding). It's actually impossible to be in fellowship with Christ if one doesn't continue to believe in Him.

 

[FreeGrace]

What is coming is: The resurrection from the dead. The redemption of the body.

I've already explained this. I'm not going to repeat myself.

Here is the phrase from the OP:

for the hour is coming in which all who are in the graves will hear His voice and come forth—those who have done good, to the resurrection of life, and those who have done evil, to the resurrection of condemnation. John 5:28-29

Where is this passage found in the OP????? I never quoted these verses.

I'm thinking that the OP hasn't been read yet.

 

[JLB]

I'm amazed that this question keeps popping up.

Don't be amazed, just read what the scripture says, and stop attempting to explain away the foundational requirment for salvation, which is to believe.

20 But he who received the seed on stony places, this is he who hears the word and immediately receives it with joy; 21 yet he has no root in himself, but endures only for a while. For when tribulation or persecution arises because of the word, immediately he stumbles. Matthew 13:20-21

• Believe = Endure

13 But the ones on the rock are those who, when they hear, receive the word with joy; and these have no root, who believe for a while and in time of temptation fall away. Luke 8:13


Believe = Saved

Believe for a while = saved for a while.


This will never change.



JLB

 

[JLB]

Where is this passage found in the OP????? I never quoted these verses.

The OP scriptures refer to the resurrection.

2 Cor 1:22 - set his seal of ownership on us, and put his Spirit in our hearts as a deposit, guaranteeing what is to come.

2 Cor 5:5 - Now the one who has fashioned us for this very purpose is God, who has given us the Spirit as a deposit, guaranteeing what is to come.

What is coming is: The resurrection from the dead. The redemption of the body.

What is coming is The Second Coming of Jesus Christ.

28 Do not marvel at this; for the hour is coming in which all who are in the graves will hear His voice 29 and come forth—those who have done good, to the resurrection of life, and those who have done evil, to the resurrection of condemnation. 30 I can of Myself do nothing. As I hear, I judge; and My judgment is righteous, because I do not seek My own will but the will of the Father who sent Me. John 5:28-30


Here is the snap-shot of that Day.


31 “When the Son of Man comes in His glory, and all the holy angels with Him, then He will sit on the throne of His glory. 32 All the nations will be gathered before Him, and He will separate them one from another, as a shepherd divides his sheep from the goats. 33 And He will set the sheep on His right hand, but the goats on the left. 34 Then the King will say to those on His right hand, ‘Come, you blessed of My Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world: 35 for I was hungry and you gave Me food; I was thirsty and you gave Me drink; I was a stranger and you took Me in; 36 I was naked and you clothed Me; I was sick and you visited Me; I was in prison and you came to Me.’

37 “Then the righteous will answer Him, saying, ‘Lord, when did we see You hungry and feed You, or thirsty and give You drink? 38 When did we see You a stranger and take You in, or naked and clothe You? 39 Or when did we see You sick, or in prison, and come to You?’ 40 And the King will answer and say to them, ‘Assuredly, I say to you, inasmuch as you did it to one of the least of these My brethren, you did it to Me.’

41 “Then He will also say to those on the left hand, ‘Depart from Me, you cursed, into the everlasting fire prepared for the devil and his angels: 42 for I was hungry and you gave Me no food; I was thirsty and you gave Me no drink; 43 I was a stranger and you did not take Me in, naked and you did not clothe Me, sick and in prison and you did not visit Me.’

44 “Then they also will answer Him, saying, ‘Lord, when did we see You hungry or thirsty or a stranger or naked or sick or in prison, and did not minister to You?’ 45 Then He will answer them, saying, ‘Assuredly, I say to you, inasmuch as you did not do it to one of the least of these, you did not do it to Me.’ 46 And these will go away into everlasting punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.”
Matthew 25:31-46


Here is the phrase from the OP:

for the hour is coming in which all who are in the graves will hear His voice and come forth—those who have done good, to the resurrection of life, and those who have done evil, to the resurrection of condemnation. John 5:28-29

• those who have done good, to the resurrection of life, and those who have done evil, to the resurrection of condemnation.

• Then the King will say to those on His right hand, ‘Come, you blessed of My Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world: Matthew 25:31

The Day is coming when there will be those who inherit the kingdom of God.

• “Then He will also say to those on the left hand, ‘Depart from Me, you cursed, into the everlasting fire prepared for the devil and his angels: Matthew 25:41

And there will be those who do not inherit the kingdom of God.


Never the less, the day is coming.




JLB

 

[FreeGrace]

Tribulation or persecution is one of the principles of salvation, in which a continuing to believe is required.

That may be, but the verse about "enduring to the end" is in context with the GREAT TRIBULATION, which is described in Rev.

13 But the ones on the rock are those who, when they hear, receive the word with joy; and these have no root, who believe for a while and in time of temptation fall away. Luke 8:13JLB

Where are the words about "believing for a while" resulting in loss of salvation??

 

[FreeGrace]

Don't be amazed, just read what the scripture says, and stop attempting to explain away the foundational requirment for salvation, which is to believe.

I've never done that. Of course the ONLY requirement for salvation is to believe in Christ. And WHEN that occurs (initial faith) there are PERMANENT CHANGES:
forgiven
justified
become children of God
HAVE eternal life
become new creatures

And...there are no verses about any of these changes being revoked, lost, taken away, etc.

 

[JLB]

That may be, but the verse about "enduring to the end" is in context with the GREAT TRIBULATION, which is described in Rev.


Where are the words about "believing for a while" resulting in loss of salvation??

Just before His Coming is the Tribulation -

What is coming is The Second Coming of Jesus Christ.

28 Do not marvel at this; for the hour is coming in which all who are in the graves will hear His voice 29 and come forth—those who have done good, to the resurrection of life, and those who have done evil, to the resurrection of condemnation. 30 I can of Myself do nothing. As I hear, I judge; and My judgment is righteous, because I do not seek My own will but the will of the Father who sent Me. John 5:28-30


Here is the snap-shot of that Day.


31 “When the Son of Man comes in His glory, and all the holy angels with Him, then He will sit on the throne of His glory. 32 All the nations will be gathered before Him, and He will separate them one from another, as a shepherd divides his sheep from the goats. 33 And He will set the sheep on His right hand, but the goats on the left. 34 Then the King will say to those on His right hand, ‘Come, you blessed of My Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world: 35 for I was hungry and you gave Me food; I was thirsty and you gave Me drink; I was a stranger and you took Me in; 36 I was naked and you clothed Me; I was sick and you visited Me; I was in prison and you came to Me.’

37 “Then the righteous will answer Him, saying, ‘Lord, when did we see You hungry and feed You, or thirsty and give You drink? 38 When did we see You a stranger and take You in, or naked and clothe You? 39 Or when did we see You sick, or in prison, and come to You?’ 40 And the King will answer and say to them, ‘Assuredly, I say to you, inasmuch as you did it to one of the least of these My brethren, you did it to Me.’

41 “Then He will also say to those on the left hand, ‘Depart from Me, you cursed, into the everlasting fire prepared for the devil and his angels: 42 for I was hungry and you gave Me no food; I was thirsty and you gave Me no drink; 43 I was a stranger and you did not take Me in, naked and you did not clothe Me, sick and in prison and you did not visit Me.’

44 “Then they also will answer Him, saying, ‘Lord, when did we see You hungry or thirsty or a stranger or naked or sick or in prison, and did not minister to You?’ 45 Then He will answer them, saying, ‘Assuredly, I say to you, inasmuch as you did not do it to one of the least of these, you did not do it to Me.’ 46 And these will go away into everlasting punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.”
Matthew 25:31-46


Here is the phrase from the OP:

for the hour is coming in which all who are in the graves will hear His voice and come forth—those who have done good, to the resurrection of life, and those who have done evil, to the resurrection of condemnation. John 5:28-29

• those who have done good, to the resurrection of life, and those who have done evil, to the resurrection of condemnation.

• Then the King will say to those on His right hand, ‘Come, you blessed of My Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world: Matthew 25:31

The Day is coming when there will be those who inherit the kingdom of God.

• “Then He will also say to those on the left hand, ‘Depart from Me, you cursed, into the everlasting fire prepared for the devil and his angels: Matthew 25:41

And there will be those who do not inherit the kingdom of God.


Never the less, the day is coming.

 

[FreeGrace]

The OP scriptures refer to the resurrection.

Please read the OP before making claims of error. The OP is about the day of redemption.

 

[Douglas Summers]

Thoughts?

AMEN!

 

[Douglas Summers]

2 Cor 1:22 - set his seal of ownership on us, and put his Spirit in our hearts as a deposit, guaranteeing what is to come.

2 Cor 5:5 - Now the one who has fashioned us for this very purpose is God, who has given us the Spirit as a deposit, guaranteeing what is to come.

The question is about the phrase "what is to come", found in both verses. What does it refer to? iow, what's coming?

The phrase "set his seal of ownership on us" relates these 2 verses to Eph 1:13, 14 and 4:30.

Eph 1 -
13 And you also were included in Christ when you heard the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation. When you believed, you were marked in him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit,
14 who is a deposit guaranteeing our inheritance until the redemption of those who are God’s possession—to the praise of his glory.

Eph 4:30 - And do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God, with whom you were sealed for the day of redemption.

What is clear from all these verses is that whatever it is that is coming, it is guaranteed. To come, that is.

Thoughts?

It was good to let the Scriptures speak for themselves, but I think all born again believer already expect this, Amen.

 

[Douglas Summers]

I said this:
"
2 Cor 1:22 - set his seal of ownership on us, and put his Spirit in our hearts as a deposit, guaranteeing what is to come.

2 Cor 5:5 - Now the one who has fashioned us for this very purpose is God, who has given us the Spirit as a deposit, guaranteeing what is to come."

No, I was quoting 2 verses in 2 Cor. Both verses said "guaranteeing what is to come". And comparing these verses with Eph 1:13,14, we see that the sealing with the Holy Spirit is a guarantee for the day of redemption.
13 And you also were included in Christ when you heard the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation. When you believed, you were marked in him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit,
14 who is a deposit guaranteeing our inheritance until the redemption of those who are God’s possession—to the praise of his glory.

I see a direct connection between 2 Cor and Eph 1:14. We find the SAME WORDS in all verses: Spirit as/is a deposit, guaranteeing.

Therefore, the sealing with the Holy Spirit IS a deposit to guarantee what is to come, which is the day of redemption of believers. Based on being sealed, not based on lifestyle criteria.

The reason I asked was it is not in my Bible "guaranteeing what is to come.AKJV

 

[Nathan]

Right. And those who have believed have been "placed in Him" as a result of believing (Eph 1:13). iow, those sealed are IN CHRIST, and guaranteed the day of REDEMPTION.


Please show IN CONTEXT where continual faith is the criteria for the guarantee, because I don't see that at all.

What I see is that the guarantee is based on being sealed, which occurs WHEN one believes. So, WHEN one believes is what is called "initial faith".


My understanding of Heb 3 is completely different than this interpretation, and this passage hasn't been shown to be related in any way to either Eph 1:13,14, 4:30 or 2 Cor 1:22 or 5:5.

Plus, I see nothing here about having to continue to believe in order to continue to be saved. If there is, please provide explanation.

" We have come to share in Christ if we hold our original confidence firm to the end"

What does that sentence mean to you?

 

[Chopper]

What Bible are you folks reading?
KJV....2Co 1:22 Who hath also sealed us, and given the earnest of the Spirit in our hearts.
ESV....2Co 1:22 and who has also put his seal on us and given us his Spirit in our hearts as a guarantee.

KJV....2Co 5:5 Now he that hath wrought us for the selfsame thing is God, who also hath given unto us the earnest of the Spirit.
ESV....2Co 5:5 He who has prepared us for this very thing is God, who has given us the Spirit as a guarantee.

I see nothing about this....

guaranteeing what is to come

....that you state is in these verses.

 

[Nathan]

What Bible are you folks reading?
KJV....2Co 1:22 Who hath also sealed us, and given the earnest of the Spirit in our hearts.
ESV....2Co 1:22 and who has also put his seal on us and given us his Spirit in our hearts as a guarantee.

KJV....2Co 5:5 Now he that hath wrought us for the selfsame thing is God, who also hath given unto us the earnest of the Spirit.
ESV....2Co 5:5 He who has prepared us for this very thing is God, who has given us the Spirit as a guarantee.

I see nothing about this.... ....that you state is in these verses.

NIV Chopper. They took it upon themselves to expound upon what the word "seal" or "pledge" or "deposit" is.

 

[WIP]

Everyone will be resurrected from the dead, according to the Bible, both believer and unbeliever.
Acts 24:15- and I have the same hope in God as these men, that there will be a resurrection of both the righteous and the wicked.

The verse is clear about what is coming. It is the "day of redemption". Will there be a "day of redemption" for any unbeliever? No, not according to the Bible. They (unbelievers) will be resurrected for the Great White Throne Judgment, in which they will be cast into the lake of fire. Rev 20:6-15.

This is confusing to me. You say unbelievers will be resurrected and cast in to the lake of fire and yet you keep preaching that someone that no longer believes is still saved. Can someone be both a believer and unbeliever on the day of resurrection?