2 Cor 1:22 and 5:5; what is coming?

[Douglas Summers]

This is confusing to me. You say unbelievers will be resurrected and cast in to the lake of fire and yet you keep preaching that someone that no longer believes is still saved. Can someone be both a believer and unbeliever on the day of resurrection?

The Great white throne Judgment comes after the tribulation period. These resurrected then are come in their natural bodies as they were when they passed. The unrighteous living and the resurrected dead. They will say, "that's not fair"!, giving a list of their works why they should be in the Kingdom.

 

[FreeGrace]

AMEN!

 

[FreeGrace]

It was good to let the Scriptures speak for themselves, but I think all born again believer already expect this, Amen.

Yes, it's always good to let Scripture speak for itself!

 

[FreeGrace]

The reason I asked was it is not in my Bible "guaranteeing what is to come.AKJV

What does the AKJV have?

 

[FreeGrace]

" We have come to share in Christ if we hold our original confidence firm to the end"

What does that sentence mean to you?

To "share in Christ" means to keep in fellowship with Him. By being filled with the Holy Spirit (Eph 5:18), and not grieving (Eph 4:30) or quenching the Spirit (1 Thess 5:19).

Believers don't have the authority or power to either place themselves in Christ, or to remove themselves from Christ.

In fact, the Bible speaks only of being placed in Christ, in Eph 1:13. And there are no verses about anyone or anything removing anyone from being in Christ. It's a seal with the Holy Spirit, a guarantee for the day of redemption.

 

[FreeGrace]

What Bible are you folks reading?
KJV....2Co 1:22 Who hath also sealed us, and given the earnest of the Spirit in our hearts.
ESV....2Co 1:22 and who has also put his seal on us and given us his Spirit in our hearts as a guarantee.

KJV....2Co 5:5 Now he that hath wrought us for the selfsame thing is God, who also hath given unto us the earnest of the Spirit.
ESV....2Co 5:5 He who has prepared us for this very thing is God, who has given us the Spirit as a guarantee.

I see nothing about this....
FreeGrace said: ↑
guaranteeing what is to come

....that you state is in these verses.

I quoted from the NIV. What's an "earnest"?

 

[FreeGrace]

I said this:
"Everyone will be resurrected from the dead, according to the Bible, both believer and unbeliever.
Acts 24:15- and I have the same hope in God as these men, that there will be a resurrection of both the righteous and the wicked.

The verse is clear about what is coming. It is the "day of redemption". Will there be a "day of redemption" for any unbeliever? No, not according to the Bible. They (unbelievers) will be resurrected for the Great White Throne Judgment, in which they will be cast into the lake of fire. Rev 20:6-15."

This is confusing to me. You say unbelievers will be resurrected and cast in to the lake of fire and yet you keep preaching that someone that no longer believes is still saved.

It is Scripture that says unbelievers will be resurrected and cast into the lake of fire.

Can someone be both a believer and unbeliever on the day of resurrection?

No. Believers who no longer believe are described as apostates. Those are people who used to believe.

But once a person believes, there are permanent changes in them that are not undone. Or the Bible would have specifically said so.

 

[Nathan]

To "share in Christ" means to keep in fellowship with Him. By being filled with the Holy Spirit (Eph 5:18), and not grieving (Eph 4:30) or quenching the Spirit (1 Thess 5:19).

Believers don't have the authority or power to either place themselves in Christ, or to remove themselves from Christ.

In fact, the Bible speaks only of being placed in Christ, in Eph 1:13. And there are no verses about anyone or anything removing anyone from being in Christ. It's a seal with the Holy Spirit, a guarantee for the day of redemption.

So that whole phrase means just to "be in fellowship"?

Original confidence firm to the end? Did you over look that part?

 

[Nathan]

I said this:
"Everyone will be resurrected from the dead, according to the Bible, both believer and unbeliever.
Acts 24:15- and I have the same hope in God as these men, that there will be a resurrection of both the righteous and the wicked.

The verse is clear about what is coming. It is the "day of redemption". Will there be a "day of redemption" for any unbeliever? No, not according to the Bible. They (unbelievers) will be resurrected for the Great White Throne Judgment, in which they will be cast into the lake of fire. Rev 20:6-15."

It is Scripture that says unbelievers will be resurrected and cast into the lake of fire.


No. Believers who no longer believe are described as apostates. Those are people who used to believe.

But once a person believes, there are permanent changes in them that are not undone. Or the Bible would have specifically said so.

Do you know what the word apostate means? If you look it up, you would see it means exactly what you say the Bible doesn't specifically say.

Apostate is a person who declares a divorce from, and leaves permanently.

How can you declare a divorce from something you were not married to?

 

[th1b.taylor]

An Earnest is a down payment. Used us, fifty years ago example: My friend has a sharp fifty-six chevy I want to play with and to drop in a blown 35 fr power But I am three hundred short of what he wants. I give him the two hundred in my pocket, he keeps the money and the car until I return with the rest. Also he, in keeping my cash agrees that should another buyer arrive before I return, e will not sell the car to that buyer. Hope that helps.

 

[Douglas Summers]

What does the AKJV have?

1:22 Who hath also sealed us, and given the earnest of the Spirit in our hearts.

5:5 Now He hath wrought us for the very same thing is God, who also hath given unto us the earnest of the SPIRIT.

 

[WIP]

I said this:
"Everyone will be resurrected from the dead, according to the Bible, both believer and unbeliever.
Acts 24:15- and I have the same hope in God as these men, that there will be a resurrection of both the righteous and the wicked.

The verse is clear about what is coming. It is the "day of redemption". Will there be a "day of redemption" for any unbeliever? No, not according to the Bible. They (unbelievers) will be resurrected for the Great White Throne Judgment, in which they will be cast into the lake of fire. Rev 20:6-15."

It is Scripture that says unbelievers will be resurrected and cast into the lake of fire.


No. Believers who no longer believe are described as apostates. Those are people who used to believe.

But once a person believes, there are permanent changes in them that are not undone. Or the Bible would have specifically said so.

Is it your contention then that once a person believes it is impossible for them to turn away from their belief?

 

[Jim Parker]

Grace to you and peace from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ.

2 Cor 1:22 - set his seal of ownership on us, and put his Spirit in our hearts as a deposit, guaranteeing what is to come.
2 Cor 5:5 - Now the one who has fashioned us for this very purpose is God, who has given us the Spirit as a deposit, guaranteeing what is to come.
The question is about the phrase "what is to come", found in both verses. What does it refer to? iow, what's coming?
The phrase "set his seal of ownership on us" relates these 2 verses to Eph 1:13, 14 and 4:30.
Eph 1 -
13 And you also were included in Christ when you heard the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation. When you believed, you were marked in him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit,
14 who is a deposit guaranteeing our inheritance until the redemption of those who are God’s possession—to the praise of his glory.
Eph 4:30 - And do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God, with whom you were sealed for the day of redemption.
What is clear from all these verses is that whatever it is that is coming, it is guaranteed. To come, that is.
Thoughts?

You are correct.
And, believing those scriptures to be trustworthy and true, it behooves you to believe these following are also trustworthy and true:
COL 1:21-23 And you, who once were alienated and enemies in your mind by wicked works, yet now He has reconciled in the body of His flesh through death, to present you holy, and blameless, and above reproach in His sight —IF YOU CONTINUE IN YOUR FAITH, established and firm, not moved from the hope held out in the gospel.

The outcome of being “reconciled in the body of His flesh through death, to present you holy, and blameless, and above reproach in His sight” is contingent upon the condition that “YOU CONTINUE IN YOUR FAITH, established and firm, not moved from the hope held out in the gospel.”

It follows logically that is one does NOT “YOU CONTINUE IN YOUR FAITH, established and firm, not moved from the hope held out in the gospel,” (fails to meet the condition) then the potential outcome of of being “reconciled in the body of His flesh through death, to present you holy, and blameless, and above reproach in His sight” will not become a reality.

HEB 3:14 We have come to share in Christ IF WE HOLD FIRMLY TILL THE END THE CONFIDENCE WE HAD AT FIRST.

The logically inferred opposite outcome of the opposite condition: If we DO NOT hold firmly then we HAVE NOT come to share in Christ.

2 PE 1:5-10 For this very reason, make every effort to add to your faith goodness; and to goodness, knowledge; and to knowledge, self-control; and to self-control, perseverance; and to perseverance, godliness; and to godliness, brotherly kindness; and to brotherly kindness, love. For IF you possess these qualities in increasing measure, they will keep you from being ineffective and unproductive in your knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ. But if anyone does not have them, he is nearsighted and blind, and has forgotten that he has been cleansed from his past sins. Therefore, my brothers, be all the more eager to make your calling and election sure. For IF YOU DO THESE THINGS, YOU WILL NEVER FALL,

The logically inferred opposite outcome of the opposite condition: If you DO NOT DO these things the possibility of falling is a reality.

2 PE 2:15a They have forsaken the right way and gone astray,…
2 PE 2:20-22 For IF, after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, they are again entangled in them and overcome, the latter end is worse for them than the beginning. For it would have been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than having known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered to them. But it has happened to them according to the true proverb: “A dog returns to his own vomit,” and, “a sow, having washed, to her wallowing in the mire.”

This is a reference to “saved” people who have left the faith and returned to their old ways of which the end is destruction. They were once saved and now they are not. They once had the gift of eternal life and they had discarded it.

But, perhaps you find fault with my analysis of those scriptures. If so, please point out my errors.

iakov the fool
(beaucoup dien cai dau)


DISCLAIMER: By reading the words posted above, you have made a free will choice to expose yourself to the rantings of iakov the fool. The poster assumes no responsibility for any temporary, permanent or otherwise annoying manifestations of cognitive dysfunction that, in any manner, may allegedly be related to the reader’s deliberate act by which he/she has knowingly allowed the above rantings to enter into his/her consciousness. No warrantee is expressed or implied. Individual mileage may vary. And, no, I don't want to hear about it. No sniveling! Enjoy the rest of your life here and the eternal one to come.

 

[Douglas Summers]

Is it your contention then that once a person believes it is impossible for them to turn away from their belief?

A man can believe and still not be saved! You must act upon that belief by faith and call upon the name of the lord (you must be born again) John 12: 41-43. Matt. 10: 32-33.

 

[atpollard]

What's clear as day, is believing, present tense, is what ensures our salvation, in which our sins are forgiven.
Those who believe for a while, are saved for a while, since they no longer believe.
These who do not hold fast to the word in which they heard, have believed in vain, since they no longer believe.

Just out of curiosity, are there any threads that do not quickly become about OSAS/OSNAS?

 

[Chopper]

I quoted from the NIV. What's an "earnest"?

An "earnest" is a pledge or guarantee.

 

[JLB]

Please read the OP before making claims of error. The OP is about the day of redemption.

Maybe you need to read the scripture from the OP so you can understand it is referring to the resurrection and the judgement that is coming.

For we know that if our earthly house, this tent, is destroyed, we have a building from God, a house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens. 2 For in this we groan, earnestly desiring to be clothed with our habitation which is from heaven, 3 if indeed, having been clothed, we shall not be found naked. 4 For we who are in this tent groan, being burdened, not because we want to be unclothed, but further clothed, that mortality may be swallowed up by life. 5 Now He who has prepared us for this very thing is God, who also has given us the Spirit as a guarantee. 6 So we are always confident, knowing that while we are at home in the body we are absent from the Lord. 7 For we walk by faith, not by sight. 8 We are confident, yes, well pleased rather to be absent from the body and to be present with the Lord. 9 Therefore we make it our aim, whether present or absent, to be well pleasing to Him. 10 For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, that each one may receive the things done in the body, according to what he has done, whether good or bad. 11 Knowing, therefore, the terror of the Lord, we persuade men; but we are well known to God, and I also trust are well known in your consciences. 2 Corinthians 5:1-11

• These verse's pertain to the coming of the Lord and the resurrection, and the judgment.

Here is some further context, if these verse's do do it.


2 Corinthians 4:13 -

13 And since we have the same spirit of faith, according to what is written, “I believed and therefore I spoke,” we also believe and therefore speak, 14 knowing that He who raised up the Lord Jesus will also raise us up with Jesus, and will present us with you. 15 For all things are for your sakes, that grace, having spread through the many, may cause thanksgiving to abound to the glory of God.
16 Therefore we do not lose heart. Even though our outward man is perishing, yet the inward man is being renewed day by day. 17 For our light affliction, which is but for a moment, is working for us a far more exceeding and eternal weight of glory, 18 while we do not look at the things which are seen, but at the things which are not seen. For the things which are seen are temporary, but the things which are not seen are eternal. For we know that if our earthly house, this tent, is destroyed, we have a building from God, a house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens. 2 For in this we groan, earnestly desiring to be clothed with our habitation which is from heaven, 3 if indeed, having been clothed, we shall not be found naked. 4 For we who are in this tent groan, being burdened, not because we want to be unclothed, but further clothed, that mortality may be swallowed up by life. 5 Now He who has prepared us for this very thing is God, who also has given us the Spirit as a guarantee. 6 So we are always confident, knowing that while we are at home in the body we are absent from the Lord. 7 For we walk by faith, not by sight. 8 We are confident, yes, well pleased rather to be absent from the body and to be present with the Lord. 9 Therefore we make it our aim, whether present or absent, to be well pleasing to Him. 10 For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, that each one may receive the things done in the body, according to what he has done, whether good or bad. 11 Knowing, therefore, the terror of the Lord, we persuade men; but we are well known to God, and I also trust are well known in your consciences. 2 Corinthians 4:13 - 5:1-11

and again

28 Do not marvel at this; for the hour is coming in which all who are in the graves will hear His voice 29 and come forth—those who have done good, to the resurrection of life, and those who have done evil, to the resurrection of condemnation. John 5:28-29

and again

God, who “will render to each one according to his deeds”: 7 eternal life to those who by patient continuance in doing good seek for glory, honor, and immortality; 8 but to those who are self-seeking and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness—indignation and wrath, 9 tribulation and anguish, on every soul of man who does evil, of the Jew first and also of the Greek; 10 but glory, honor, and peace to everyone who works what is good, to the Jew first and also to the Greek. 11 For there is no partiality with God. Romans 2:6-11


Here are those who will receive eternal life on that Day: God, who “will render to each one according to his deeds”:

• eternal life to those who by patient continuance in doing good seek for glory, honor, and immortality;
• but to those who are self-seeking and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness—indignation and wrath,

Here is what eternal life and indignation and wrath look like from Jesus perspective -

Eternal Life = Inherit the kingdom of God

• Then the King will say to those on His right hand, ‘Come, you blessed of My Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:

• “Then He will also say to those on the left hand, ‘Depart from Me, you cursed, into the everlasting fire prepared for the devil and his angels:

Wrath; Will not inherit the kingdom of God = Depart from Me, you cursed, into the everlasting fire prepared for the devil and his angels.


31 “When the Son of Man comes in His glory, and all the holy angels with Him, then He will sit on the throne of His glory. 32 All the nations will be gathered before Him, and He will separate them one from another, as a shepherd divides his sheep from the goats. 33 And He will set the sheep on His right hand, but the goats on the left. 34 Then the King will say to those on His right hand, ‘Come, you blessed of My Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world: 35 for I was hungry and you gave Me food; I was thirsty and you gave Me drink; I was a stranger and you took Me in; 36 I was naked and you clothed Me; I was sick and you visited Me; I was in prison and you came to Me.’ 37 “Then the righteous will answer Him, saying, ‘Lord, when did we see You hungry and feed You, or thirsty and give You drink? 38 When did we see You a stranger and take You in, or naked and clothe You? 39 Or when did we see You sick, or in prison, and come to You?’ 40 And the King will answer and say to them, ‘Assuredly, I say to you, inasmuch as you did it to one of the least of these My brethren, you did it to Me.’

41 “Then He will also say to those on the left hand, ‘Depart from Me, you cursed, into the everlasting fire prepared for the devil and his angels: Matthew 25:31-41



JLB

 

[FreeGrace]

So that whole phrase means just to "be in fellowship"?

Yes, the "whole phrase".

Original confidence firm to the end? Did you over look that part?

No. How can one be in fellowship with Christ if they lose their original confidence?

 

[FreeGrace]

Do you know what the word apostate means? If you look it up, you would see it means exactly what you say the Bible doesn't specifically say.

Apostate is a person who declares a divorce from, and leaves permanently.

How can you declare a divorce from something you were not married to?

What kind of dictionary says this? An apostate is someone who no longer believes what he/she once believed.

I've never seen anything about divorce in any definition of "apostate".

Here's a few from the web:
noun 1.the abandonment or renunciation of a religious or political belief.

From Wikipedia: Apostasy (/əˈpɒstəsi/; Greek: ἀποστασία (apostasia), "a defection or revolt") is the formal disaffiliation from, or abandonment or renunciation of a religion by a person. It can also be defined within the broader context of embracing an opinion contrary to one's previous beliefs.

From Merriam-Webster.com:

1. : an act of refusing to continue to follow, obey, or recognize a religious faith
   2: abandonment of a previous loyalty : defection
   
   From thefreedictionary.com: abandonment of one's religious faith, party, a cause, etc

 

[FreeGrace]

An Earnest is a down payment. Used us, fifty years ago example: My friend has a sharp fifty-six chevy I want to play with and to drop in a blown 35 fr power But I am three hundred short of what he wants. I give him the two hundred in my pocket, he keeps the money and the car until I return with the rest. Also he, in keeping my cash agrees that should another buyer arrive before I return, e will not sell the car to that buyer. Hope that helps.

Pretty much the same as a guarantee. Thanks.

btw, I had a sharp 57 Chev once. But what is "35 fr power"? I know what 'blown' is.