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3 spirits

LeviR said:
Did the magicians bring the frogs. Many believe they did. I don’t.
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I've always wondered what kind of deceit the magicians used to claim performing their "miracles?" I personally believe it was trickery, and not actual creative miracles.

But to be honest, I don't know what kind of power angels have? If humans have power to raise armies and conquer kingdoms, what kind of power do angels have in the world they live in, which is invisible to us?

We read in Revelation that angels have various powers, which seem pretty impressive. The 1s power a fallen angel displayed in the Bible was the power of temptations and deception, the power of persuasion. But I should think that angels, fallen or otherwise, have much more power than that, just as we humans can both persuade others, deceive others, and still raise armies, conquering entire nations.
 
RandyK said:
Of course Satan does not have power over God! I'm surprised you even imagine someobody believes that?
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I thought a lot about this, this morning. I never meant to imply what any other person believes.....I merely asked if you believed such a thing.

If this is God's Creation (which it is); there is no way any "3 Spirits" can have any sway over anything.....unless that is God's Will. All that has happened on this earth has been from the choices of men. Putin's "greed" for power is what drives him; Netanyahu's "greed" to stay in power is what drives him, and so on. No one can blame any of it on any other thing (or being).

The seven heads "greed" for power is what drives them; and they believe holding and controlling all the "wealth" on this earth gives them that power. They will do whatever it takes to continue to hold that power, including wiping out 2/3 of humanity.

God did not "drive" any of these men to these things....it is a choice they have made to covet such things.....with no other "outside force" driving them to it.

If God says turn right, and some other man says you should turn left.....you can not eventually face God and say, the other man made me do it.....everyone must take responsibility for the choices they make (and have made).
 
Enlightenedtruth said:
I thought a lot about this, this morning. I never meant to imply what any other person believes.....I merely asked if you believed such a thing.

If this is God's Creation (which it is); there is no way any "3 Spirits" can have any sway over anything.....unless that is God's Will. All that has happened on this earth has been from the choices of men. Putin's "greed" for power is what drives him; Netanyahu's "greed" to stay in power is what drives him, and so on. No one can blame any of it on any other thing (or being).

The seven heads "greed" for power is what drives them; and they believe holding and controlling all the "wealth" on this earth gives them that power. They will do whatever it takes to continue to hold that power, including wiping out 2/3 of humanity.

God did not "drive" any of these men to these things....it is a choice they have made to covet such things.....with no other "outside force" driving them to it.

If God says turn right, and some other man says you should turn left.....you can not eventually face God and say, the other man made me do it.....everyone must take responsibility for the choices they make (and have made).
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I think you're emphasizing personal responsibility. This, of course, does not discount the influence or power others may have in your decision-making. "Duress" is a legal term indicating just that, that others can unduly influence your decision-making. So it is a recognized concept.

Beyond duress, there are influences from others that we may *wish* to be influenced by. It may pull upon our weak carnal desires, by holding in front of our eyes something delectable, though forbidden. Some may wish to be seduced. They are responsible, but so are those who tempt them.

God gives angels and men power to do certain things, both legal and forbidden. The evil things God allows influential beings to do, powerful beings to do, will simply become evidence for their future conviction.

I don't, by the way, automatically condemn political leaders as "greedy" or "power hungry." I actually admire Netanyahu, recognizing that the media loves to "hate" him. There is a lot of anti-semitism in Western society, and I think we need to be careful not to be part of that.
 
RandyK said:
"Duress" is a legal term indicating just that, that others can unduly influence your decision-making. So it is a recognized concept.
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First, I would like to say if you want to be the one to tell God He must acknowledge and obey the laws of men.....good luck with that....

I do understand the "antisemitism".....as well as "racism", "sexism" and all the rest. I do not consider myself to be any of these......but the truth is always going to be the truth.....

Current situation in Israel......massive protest over Netanyahu's plan to gut the Court system so they cannot prosecute him or his "friends", reservist say they will refuse to report for duty......surprise attack that "no one" saw coming, then war......as long as the war rages, Netanyahu's "power" is safe....

But how did "no one" see an attack coming......they have camera's, drones, outpost around Gaza, and informants all over the place inside Gaza.....even today they claim their "precision" strikes are based on the intelligence they are gathering from these things....and I'm sorry, I don't believe in coincidence.....just when the Jews are demanding Netanyahu step down over the court "reform"; all of a sudden there can be no elections because Israel is at war

God told the Israelites....Thou shalt not kill.....and any man who holds himself above God's Law is not "immune" just because he is Jewish.....unless you want to tell God He is just being "antisemitic" and He needs to not do that
 
The RCC is nothing. They are as important to God as the Mormons or any other false religions of the wold.
Get it?
 
LeviR said:
You don’t get it.
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Yep....I don't get it

Of the 2 billion people standing on this earth who claim some form of Christianity......1.4 billion of them are Catholic....how can any man claim to have the Authority to pass Judgement on any other, or their belief's?.....isn't that God's job

Christians can, and have said throughout history....that all other religious belief's are false (and pagan).....and if that is true then Judaism must be false, they reject Christ.....and if that is true then why are the Israelites given such prominence in the Christian Bible....the entire Book of Psalms are songs and prayers written by Jews if I recall....

Just because you may disagree with another......that does not mean you should dismiss or discount them......you have to remember God does have a Purpose in all this
 
Enlightenedtruth said:
Yep....I don't get it

Of the 2 billion people standing on this earth who claim some form of Christianity......1.4 billion of them are Catholic....how can any man claim to have the Authority to pass Judgement on any other, or their belief's?.....isn't that God's job

Christians can, and have said throughout history....that all other religious belief's are false (and pagan).....and if that is true then Judaism must be false, they reject Christ.....and if that is true then why are the Israelites given such prominence in the Christian Bible....the entire Book of Psalms are songs and prayers written by Jews if I recall....

Just because you may disagree with another......that does not mean you should dismiss or discount them......you have to remember God does have a Purpose in all this
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You like the vast majority DON'T REALISE THAT ISRAEL AND JUDAH ARE TWO DIFFERENT THINGS.
Until 721 BC the Ten Tribes of Israel lived in the northern part of the land called Samaria while the 2/3 tribes of Judah/Jews lived in the south called Judah including Jerusalem.
ISRAEL is today's country - but is also the 10 Lost Tribes of 2 Kings 17:22 . In 721 BC they were invaded by Assyrians and transported away and lost all their identity but are todays' Anglo-Saxon Christians. The Asssyrians then immigrated three tribes of pagans which is why the Samaritan/pagan woman ate the well was surprised that Jesus woudl ask her for a drink.
The Jews are pagans who deny Jesus and thereby doom themselves.
Catholics are doomed pagans because they worship idols of Ishtar of Babylon.
 
Enlightenedtruth said:
That is an interesting concept.....and I do agree all the choices available to men under "free will" do fall within God's Domain.....such as the choice between good vs evil, but it still comes down to each mans choice (and their responsibility). No one can blame it on anyone or anything else...it is a choice given.

Darkness rules this world....because those inclined to evil will do anything and everything to have and hold wealth and power. But it is men doing this....not some "supernatural being"; and yes, all of this does serve God's Purpose.....in sorting out which Angel's are worthy to return to Him, and which are not.
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Satan, his Second Gang of Fallen Angels and millions of demons rule earth and lead people astray.
 
Enlightenedtruth said:
First, I would like to say if you want to be the one to tell God He must acknowledge and obey the laws of men.....good luck with that....

I do understand the "antisemitism".....as well as "racism", "sexism" and all the rest. I do not consider myself to be any of these......but the truth is always going to be the truth.....

Current situation in Israel......massive protest over Netanyahu's plan to gut the Court system so they cannot prosecute him or his "friends", reservist say they will refuse to report for duty......surprise attack that "no one" saw coming, then war......as long as the war rages, Netanyahu's "power" is safe....

But how did "no one" see an attack coming......they have camera's, drones, outpost around Gaza, and informants all over the place inside Gaza.....even today they claim their "precision" strikes are based on the intelligence they are gathering from these things....and I'm sorry, I don't believe in coincidence.....just when the Jews are demanding Netanyahu step down over the court "reform"; all of a sudden there can be no elections because Israel is at war

God told the Israelites....Thou shalt not kill.....and any man who holds himself above God's Law is not "immune" just because he is Jewish.....unless you want to tell God He is just being "antisemitic" and He needs to not do that
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No, I don't defend Netanyahu just because I'm a right-wing Republican Christian in the US who believes Israel has a future place in biblical prophecy, although that helps. ;) I've been following Netanyahu for many years, and have always liked his strong defense of Israel against the liberalizing influences of the West and Jewish liberalism.

I'm aware of the challenges going on in Israel right now, with respect to charges against him. I'm not there, so I can't make a judgment on it. What I do know is that those on the Left are typically hateful towards Conservatives, believing that all the power lies with people, and not God. They think conservatives are not forward-looking enough, "progressive" enough.

There are a lot of "progressive" Jews in US government who are not particularly pro-Israel and in fact hostile to Netanyahu. I don't respect them at all. Their agenda is man-centered and doomed to failure. You can't invite a criminal to dinner and "make peace." You can't donate money to a terrorist fund and win their friendship.

Incidentally, I never said God should obey the laws of men. God has allowed men to make their own laws, and lets them "hang themselves," if that's what they wish to do.

You seem to think others, angels and men, do not influence our making bad decisions, that we alone are responsible for sinning? But that's not what I read in the Scriptures. If indeed you put a stumbling block in front of someone, you can do damage to their faith and cause them to go in a wrong direction.

And God indicated that Satan was responsible for his temptation of Adam and Eve. Without his temptation Adam and Eve would not have fallen into sin, the way I see it.
 
Rxlx1 said:
The Jews are pagans who deny Jesus and thereby doom themselves.
Catholics are doomed pagans because they worship idols of Ishtar of Babylon.
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The Jews are not what most people believe them to be....and God's Judgement will come to them.....

The Catholic's as a "whole" are not doomed....but again, God's Judgement will come to them, as it will come to us all
 
RandyK said:
Incidentally, I never said God should obey the laws of men. God has allowed men to make their own laws, and lets them "hang themselves," if that's what they wish to do.
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I do agree with this.......men have "hung themselves"......

I do agree....terrorism has no place on this earth.....but to be oppressed by a government, then to fight back......that sounds a bit like the American Revolution......Israelites have been killing Arabs since Biblical times, that war is only going to end when God puts a stop to it
 
Enlightenedtruth said:
I do agree with this.......men have "hung themselves"......

I do agree....terrorism has no place on this earth.....but to be oppressed by a government, then to fight back......that sounds a bit like the American Revolution......Israelites have been killing Arabs since Biblical times, that war is only going to end when God puts a stop to it
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Yea, I've looked into the American Revolution too. Most Christians just automatically agree with American patriotism, with the sense that "the US is the greatest nation in history."

Well, the US is special, but it certainly is not particularly "spiritual." And its government is not the greatest political form in history. I believe Christian theocracy is the best form of government, assuming the people are truly Christian, though this can be very misunderstood. But I'll leave that for another conversation....
 
RandyK said:
Yes, words are tricky sometimes but I did get what I think you wanted to say, that God is in charge of everything, including both darkness and light. Even our free will is under His control since He gives us the options.

If darkness is having its way, then we can rest assured that it is under God's scrutiny and is fulfilling some role in the end-game, which involves judging that darkness, as well. God gives evil just enough rope to hang itself. He allows it full expression so that its many advocates feel enabled, plot and gather together, only to be tied up, bundled and thrown into the fire.
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Please define free will.
 
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