3 spirits

[electedbyHim]

Of course. If we don't choose to follow Jesus, who does it for us?

Thank you.

I do not see anywhere in Scripture where we choose to be saved, it is actually the opposite, the unregenerate cannot turn to the Lord on their own free will.

I will stop at this, to not go off topic any further.

Grace and peace to you.

 

[RandyK]

Thank you.

I do not see anywhere in Scripture where we choose to be saved, it is actually the opposite, the unregenerate cannot turn to the Lord on their own free will.

I will stop at this, to not go off topic any further.

Grace and peace to you.

Yes, this a huge subject, and I respect it...on both sides. Martin Luther wrote a book called, "The Bondage of the Will," and took your side on this. I was raised a Lutheran, though not now, and did not agree with Luther on this. Luther's concern was to show that Salvation comes by Christ alone, and not by anything we can do to earn our own Salvation.

My own view is that though this is true we were made to operate in conjunction with God's Word so that when we choose to accept Savlation, we are not just doing it on our own, but really, in conjunction with the Word of God.

We can discuss it some other time perhaps? Have a nice day.

 

[for_his_glory]

Hosea 4:6 My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge: because thou hast rejected knowledge, I will also reject thee, that thou shalt be no priest to me: seeing thou hast forgotten the law of thy God, I will also forget thy children.
Hosea 4:7 As they were increased, so they sinned against me: therefore will I change their glory into shame.

Rev 16:12-16
And the sixth angel poured out his vial upon the great river Euphrates; and the water thereof was dried up, that the way of the kings of the east might be prepared. And I saw three unclean spirits like frogs come out of the mouth of the dragon, and out of the mouth of the beast, and out of the mouth of the false prophet. For they are the spirits of devils, working miracles, which go forth unto the kings of the earth and of the whole world, to gather them to the battle of that great day of God Almighty. Behold, I come as a thief. Blessed is he that watcheth, and keepeth his garments, lest he walk naked, and they see his shame. And he gathered them together into a place called in the Hebrew tongue Armageddon.

The Euphrates River stretches approximately 1800 miles beginning in Turkey flowing down through Syria and Iraq where the great walled city of Babylon once stood before it was destroyed by God and never inhabited again, Isaiah chapter 45; Jeremiah chapters 50, 51; Daniel chapter 5.

This great river separates the land mass between Israel and all the eastern countries and ends in Kuwait City at the mouth of the Persian Gulf. The Euphrates receives most of its water in the form of rainfall, melting snow and a few tributaries along the way.

God spoke of the latter days that he would dry up the Nile River and the Euphrates River to prepare a highway for the scattered tribes of Judah to return back to Jerusalem, Isaiah 11:11-16; 27:12, 13; Jeremiah 50:4, 5. The kings of the east, 1 Peter 2:9; Revelation 1:6; 5:10, are the faithful Jewish remnant of God’s people that He will gather back to Israel as they reclaim the inheritance of all the land from the Nile River to the Euphrates River that was promised to Abraham and his seed.

They are the faithful Jewish remnant of the house of Judah whom from the time of the Babylonian captivity in 586 B.C. and the Egyptian captivity of Judah in 609 B.C. have stayed in the same lands they became accustom to, but now God will deliver them back to their own land as they are joined together once again with the house of Israel, Ezekiel 37:22. This takes place when Jesus returns as we will study this in Chapter 19.
(cross-reference for the remnant of God: Genesis 15:18; Isaiah 11:11, 12; Isaiah 27:12,13; 35; 43:1-7; 52:1-10; Jeremiah 3:18; 16:14,15; Joel 3:2-7; and Zechariah 10:9-11; 2 Kings 23:29-37, 2 Chronicles 35:20-27)

The three unclean spirits are spirits of demons that proceed out of the mouth of Satan who gives power and authority to his unholy trinity that is Satan, the Jesuits (beast) and the Pope who is the false prophet who speaks lies and teaches a twisted word of God that deceives the nations. These three spirits of demons send out wondrous signs to the political leaders (kings) of the earth and throughout all the nations as the signs are that of the monumental greatness of this modern day tower of Babel with its seat in Jerusalem as they make a name for themselves setting themselves above all that is God's, Genesis 11:1-9; Isaiah 14:12-14.

It was through vanity and pride that the tower of Babel was being built and as God made an end to that so will He also make an end to this Luciferians New World Order as the whole world is gathered to the great battle of God almighty as Satan gathers them to a place called Armageddon. Jesus said we need to keep watch as He will come as a thief in the night to those who have no relationship with Him.

 

[for_his_glory]

I thought a lot about this, this morning. I never meant to imply what any other person believes.....I merely asked if you believed such a thing.

If this is God's Creation (which it is); there is no way any "3 Spirits" can have any sway over anything.....unless that is God's Will. All that has happened on this earth has been from the choices of men. Putin's "greed" for power is what drives him; Netanyahu's "greed" to stay in power is what drives him, and so on. No one can blame any of it on any other thing (or being).

The seven heads "greed" for power is what drives them; and they believe holding and controlling all the "wealth" on this earth gives them that power. They will do whatever it takes to continue to hold that power, including wiping out 2/3 of humanity.

God did not "drive" any of these men to these things....it is a choice they have made to covet such things.....with no other "outside force" driving them to it.

If God says turn right, and some other man says you should turn left.....you can not eventually face God and say, the other man made me do it.....everyone must take responsibility for the choices they make (and have made).

Eph 6:12 For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.

Evil principalities are very real that are controlled by Satan and nothing to mess around with, but my God is mightier conquering all evil powers of this world. They will all have their place in the lake of fire in the end.

 

[Rondmon]

I'm utterly amazed that people in this world are irresistably drawn to the Dark Side! Against all rationality they pursue the wrong politics, the wrong religion, the wrong moral compass.

They want Islam, Hinduism, Self-Improvement, Hypnosis, Legalism, Asceticism, Libertinism--anything but Right-Wing Christianity. They want Religious Pluralism as long as it isn't Dogmatic Christianity. Why is this? Could it be the power of the "False Prophet?"

They want Communism or Socialism, setting up an elite over everybody to redistribute property with the caveat that they be controlled by that elite. The distribution is not focused upon responsibility or morality or religiosity. Why is that? Could it be the power of the "Antichrist?"

Ultimately, people simply don't want to be under the authority of God or His Word. Sounds like the spirit of Satan to me? "Hath God said? God is trying to trick you, to keep you under His control. He's jealous of you, afraid you'll be independent like He is."

Rev 16.12 The sixth angel poured out his bowl on the great river Euphrates, and its water was dried up to prepare the way for the kings from the East. 13 Then I saw three impure spirits that looked like frogs; they came out of the mouth of the dragon, out of the mouth of the beast and out of the mouth of the false prophet. 14 They are demonic spirits that perform signs, and they go out to the kings of the whole world, to gather them for the battle on the great day of God Almighty.
15 “Look, I come like a thief! Blessed is the one who stays awake and remains clothed, so as not to go naked and be shamefully exposed.”

I can make an argument that the Euphrates river here is being used as a metaphor for God tricking the wicked to come out of their caves/hiding places by DRYING UP His Plagues, so when Jesus shows up at the 7th Vial all of these wicked men can be slain in a grand spectacle for all to see at Armageddon.

Seal #6 points to me hiding in caves for fear, so why do thy all of a sudden come out with great courage? The Three Lying Spirits vit the Dragon, A.C. & False Prophet seduce them forth with LIES as Vial 6 says...but how? God stops His plagues for a time, after the Two-witnesses die at the end of the 2nd woe, they have already prayed down woe #3, which is the 7 vials which all emit from the 7th Trump. So, after 5 Vials the 6th vial DOES NOTHING right?

Except it allows the people or followers who have taken the Mark of the Beast, who we know are in hiding, like cowards, to become deceived by these three lying spirits. God drying up his plagues for a few weeks would allow this lie to take root. Then as they show up to kill ALL the Jews where this can never happen again (thats the seducing lie IMHO) they are met by Jesus at the 7th vial 2nd coming. Why would modern armies need a river to dry up in order to cross it? That makes no sense. Now we know why God allows the Two=witnesses to die.

 

[RandyK]

I can make an argument that the Euphrates river here is being used as a metaphor for God tricking the wicked to come out of their caves/hiding places by DRYING UP His Plagues, so when Jesus shows up at the 7th Vial all of these wicked men can be slain in a grand spectacle for all to see at Armageddon.

Seal #6 points to me hiding in caves for fear, so why do thy all of a sudden come out with great courage? The Three Lying Spirits vit the Dragon, A.C. & False Prophet seduce them forth with LIES as Vial 6 says...but how? God stops His plagues for a time, after the Two-witnesses die at the end of the 2nd woe, they have already prayed down woe #3, which is the 7 vials which all emit from the 7th Trump. So, after 5 Vials the 6th vial DOES NOTHING right?

Except it allows the people or followers who have taken the Mark of the Beast, who we know are in hiding, like cowards, to become deceived by these three lying spirits. God drying up his plagues for a few weeks would allow this lie to take root. Then as they show up to kill ALL the Jews where this can never happen again (thats the seducing lie IMHO) they are met by Jesus at the 7th vial 2nd coming. Why would modern armies need a river to dry up in order to cross it? That makes no sense. Now we know why God allows the Two=witnesses to die.

I really don't know whether the drying up of the great river Euphrates is a metaphor or literal. Nothing requires it to be non-literal except that such a big river doesn't normally dry up, though under certain conditions it can happen. Extreme drought conditions coupled with a temporary diversion of the river for some purpose, it may be possible.

I think the point is that any obstacle to nations from the East mobilizing to Israel is removed, literal or not. These armies are literal and go to fight a major international battle focused on territory in Israel.

I don't think the world requires some rational explanation for their being deceived outside of the fact their hearts are wicked and pursue a rationalization that Satan is all too ready to give them. And since this end times scenario was given to the Church over 2000 years ago, clearly in principle it was intended to help Christians understand that people are not to be trusted, their being driven by the evil spirit of this present age.

It is an encouragement for us to be driven by the right spirit, the Holy Spirit, in order to be found pleasing to God. It may help us to not be discouraged when territory once claiming to be evangelized and Christian returns to its vomit, appearing to make the hope of the Kingdom a mere pipe dream.

 

[RandyK]

Frogs were the last of the plagues the magicians brought upon the earth.
There are no magicians other than the one God permits.
Don’t be fooled.

Frogs, I think, are cute, but not when they proliferate and tell lies! They are a major annoyance, when you realize that the world wants to dwell in a swamp.

 

[LeviR]

Frogs, I think, are cute, but not when they proliferate and tell lies! They are a major annoyance, when you realize that the world wants to dwell in a swamp.

Used to be thought, as still is, by some groups, that magicians and witches were under the influence of gods(demons).
I think it was Roger Bacon who was imprisoned by the Church for not buying the idea that spirit gods had something to do with magic.
Magicians were simply good at deception he said.

 

[RandyK]

Used to be thought, as still is, by some groups, that magicians and witches were under the influence of gods(demons).
I think it was Roger Bacon who was imprisoned by the Church for not buying the idea that spirit gods had something to do with magic.
Magicians were simply good at deception he said.

Premodern thinking among Christians involved a mix between natural science and religious dogmatism, and there was undoubtedly animosity when a bright, critical thinker might challenge the status quo. Regardless, I do think angels, good and evil, are real and can have an actual physical impact upon our world.

We know, from the book of Daniel, that heavenly spirits warred to influence earthly rulers and their countrymen. So it appears to have been a battle of influence. But why should we doubt that they can do things like move heavy rocks (at Christ's tomb)?

Magic is, indeed, a form of deception. But I also believe in seeming "miracles" that demons can produce, eg false healings. They are true supernatural feats, but I call them "false" because they are designed to lead men astray, misrepresenting God.

 

[miamited]

I'm utterly amazed that people in this world are irresistably drawn to the Dark Side! Against all rationality they pursue the wrong politics, the wrong religion, the wrong moral compass.

Hey RandyK

Well, now you have some idea of how God feels on the matter.

 

[LeviR]

Premodern thinking among Christians involved a mix between natural science and religious dogmatism, and there was undoubtedly animosity when a bright, critical thinker might challenge the status quo. Regardless, I do think angels, good and evil, are real and can have an actual physical impact upon our world.

We know, from the book of Daniel, that heavenly spirits warred to influence earthly rulers and their countrymen. So it appears to have been a battle of influence. But why should we doubt that they can do things like move heavy rocks (at Christ's tomb)?

Magic is, indeed, a form of deception. But I also believe in seeming "miracles" that demons can produce, eg false healings. They are true supernatural feats, but I call them "false" because they are designed to lead men astray, misrepresenting God.

I’m not arguing that God’s angels aren’t involved in what happens on earth. My argument would be that to claim angels or spirits to be acting independently of their own would not be true.
And I think that’s the argument Bacon was making. To think that magicians were acting under the influence of independent spirits is incorrect. So the Church imprisoned him.

 

[RandyK]

I’m not arguing that God’s angels aren’t involved in what happens on earth. My argument would be that to claim angels to be acting independently of their own would not be true.

Yes, my own belief is that God gave the world and its atmosphere to Man. Angels are trespassing if they do not have permission from God.

Satan, of course, trespassed, but with a kind of "permission." It wasn't a permission to sin, but it was an allowance to be on earth long enough to make his rebellion known. Obviously, God must allow the sins before He brings the judgments.