39,000 Christian denominations which one are you

[Free]

They are polytheistic which is blatant heresy. They also believe we can each become gods of our own worlds, etc. The errors are numerous.

The belief in a trinity is somewhat polytheistic, right? I mean multiple persons equaling one God that would make a 3 in 1 God, right?

Also you say God came in the flesh just like Mormons and once you start putting God in the flesh how can you then assume He could not have been in the flesh other times? Hindus believe that God comes in the flesh all the time in their Holy Men.

No, the Trinity is not polytheistic. I'm not certain what the point of your last couple of sentences is.

 

[bodhitharta]

bodhitharta: if you read the link I provided, you would know that Mormons are not Christians. They claim to be, but, as others have said, the core of their faith is so diferent to Christianity.

Yes, but it is their claim that they are restoring the "True Gospel"

 

[bodhitharta]

They are polytheistic which is blatant heresy. They also believe we can each become gods of our own worlds, etc. The errors are numerous.

The belief in a trinity is somewhat polytheistic, right? I mean multiple persons equaling one God that would make a 3 in 1 God, right?

Also you say God came in the flesh just like Mormons and once you start putting God in the flesh how can you then assume He could not have been in the flesh other times? Hindus believe that God comes in the flesh all the time in their Holy Men.

No, the Trinity is not polytheistic. I'm not certain what the point of your last couple of sentences is.

Is Jesus a different person than his Father and is the Holy Spirit distinct from the other two?

In other words is Jesus the Holy Soirit and his Father or are they 3 persons?

 

[bodhitharta]

Seeing that not all denominations can be 100% correct, it is logical that in most cases its the agreement on error that keeps them together. They are in unity because they believe the same thing. Others do not believe that same matter in that way, so they cannot join them. In many cases they are correct in a particular matter , but then some other matter would be incorrect and that binds them together.

We cannot afford to be wrong about anything when it comes to eternal life.

C

so are you saying 29,999 are wrong but yours is right?

 

[Free]

No, the Trinity is not polytheistic. I'm not certain what the point of your last couple of sentences is.

Is Jesus a different person than his Father and is the Holy Spirit distinct from the other two?

In other words is Jesus the Holy Soirit and his Father or are they 3 persons?

They are 3 persons in the one being that is God--not three Gods (polytheism); not one manifesting as three different persons (modalism).

 

[bodhitharta]

No, the Trinity is not polytheistic. I'm not certain what the point of your last couple of sentences is.

Is Jesus a different person than his Father and is the Holy Spirit distinct from the other two?

In other words is Jesus the Holy Soirit and his Father or are they 3 persons?

They are 3 persons in the one being that is God--not three Gods (polytheism); not one manifesting as three different persons (modalism).

Aren't persons "beings"

doesn't a being consist One's basic or essential nature; personality.

So you are saying that God has three personalities meaning He is either three beings or not of One Personality.

 

[Free]

The term "person" is applied because that is the closest we can come to it; it is the easiest way to understand it. Personality, at least here, does not equate to "being".

 

[bodhitharta]

The term "person" is applied because that is the closest we can come to it; it is the easiest way to understand it. Personality, at least here, does not equate to "being".

If you will be like what Jesus is like then according to your belief you will also be a trinity, do you believe that ?

 

[Rick W]

bodhitharta,
Welcome to the board.
You bring up a topic worthy of discussion which has gotten onto one of our core beliefs. We have many other threads regarding the Trinity and though our Statement of Faith includes such beliefs as the Trinity we tolerate opposing views within reason of course for not all agree.

 

[stranger]

The term "person" is applied because that is the closest we can come to it; it is the easiest way to understand it. Personality, at least here, does not equate to "being".

If you will be like what Jesus is like then according to your belief you will also be a trinity, do you believe that ?

Hi bodhitharta,

No I don't believe that. Being like what Jesus is like (Christlike) is like reflecting God's image and likeness. But this does not mean we become God (trinty) but like Jesus in his humanity.

blessings in Christ

 

[Ed the Ned]

Welcome to the forum, I have found the forum both enlightening and fustrating, but it has given me the oppotunity to learn from fellow Christians and to see certain faults. The church I attend is a Baptist Church that has its roots as a Bible believing church. I am against all sorts of heresy in the modern church, but I do believe Jesus and the apostles warned us of this. We need to be vigilant and oppose these New Age ideals that are seducing Christianity.

Yes, but it is their claim that they are restoring the "True Gospel"

- bodhitharta
I feel this quote is an attemt to be argumentative and has no real justification. If you had read the thread you would have learnt certain truths about the mormon faith that would have shown you clearly its non-christian standpoint. But seen you failed to read the thread I will make a few points now that might enlighten you to the mormon faith and their origins:
1) They were stated by a man called Joseph Smith in regards to visions he saw in 1820
2) They believe in salvation by works and not by grace.
3) The believe that God was human and through his obedience he recieved godship over earth.
4) We can all become Gods if we are obedient.(and recieve our own earths)
5) They were, up until about 1974 a racialistic church that deemed african-americans unworthy
6) Their doctrine is base apon the works of Joseph Smith and the bible is secondary.

I have only stated a few facts, maybe should attempt to understand these religions and read your bible where we are warned of false teachers and prophets, and we should not be decieved by them. I did not clearly understand your christian standpoint, but I feel you are a little oblivious to what is written in the bible.
Regarding the Holy spirit, this is something we cannot understand in full. But I will try and put some perspective to it. An egg is an egg, it is one egg, yet it is made up of three parts. The Yoke, The white and the shell. Each has its purpose yet they are ONE.

 

[Unlimited]

I'm a Presbyterian, but I attend a Congregationalist Church.

Oh, and bodhitharta, the reason why Mormonism is considered polytheistic by Christians is because they teach that God was once a man on a different planet who became a god, there are many gods, you can become a god, etc.

The Trinity, if explained incorrectly can seem polytheistic. Explaining it is not exactly an easy task. As Augustine said:

Try to explain the Trinity, and you'll lose your mind.
But try to deny the Trinity, and you'll lose your soul.

Anyway, the [Biblical] doctrine of Trinity is that there is ONE God, composed of three persons (that term being incorrect but our most correct way of saying it as someone else has pointed out): God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit. By saying "persons", I mean they are personal self-distinctions within a single divine essence. So, the Trinity isn't polytheistic for instead of being many divine essences, there is a single one.

 

[joechrist]

I'm a Presbyterian, but I attend a Congregationalist Church.

Oh, and bodhitharta, the reason why Mormonism is considered polytheistic by Christians is because they teach that God was once a man on a different planet who became a god, there are many gods, you can become a god, etc.

The Trinity, if explained incorrectly can seem polytheistic. Explaining it is not exactly an easy task. As Augustine said:

Try to explain the Trinity, and you'll lose your mind.
But try to deny the Trinity, and you'll lose your soul.

Anyway, the [Biblical] doctrine of Trinity is that there is ONE God, composed of three persons (that term being incorrect but our most correct way of saying it as someone else has pointed out): God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit. By saying "persons", I mean they are personal self-distinctions within a single divine essence. So, the Trinity isn't polytheistic for instead of being many divine essences, there is a single one.

So basically what Augustine said was, the trinity doesn't make any sense, but you better believe it anyway or go to hell. Boy he was SMART ONE.
Why do you refer to it as the Biblical doctrine of the trinity when the bible makes no mention of the trinity. How about looking at it for what it is. The council could not come to an agreement as to the essence of what Jesus was. So they came to a compromise and said, "Hey lets just say he is all three and make everybody happy." So you shouldn't mislead people and call it the "biblical" doctrine. Rather it should be called the council of Nicea doctrine.

 

[Cornelius]

Seeing that not all denominations can be 100% correct, it is logical that in most cases its the agreement on error that keeps them together. They are in unity because they believe the same thing. Others do not believe that same matter in that way, so they cannot join them. In many cases they are correct in a particular matter , but then some other matter would be incorrect and that binds them together.

We cannot afford to be wrong about anything when it comes to eternal life.

C

so are you saying 29,999 are wrong but yours is right?

I don't have one

 

[Cornelius]

so are you saying 29,999 are wrong but yours is right?

Are you saying that there are 29,999 correct views of the Bible?

 

[Unlimited]

I'm a Presbyterian, but I attend a Congregationalist Church.

Oh, and bodhitharta, the reason why Mormonism is considered polytheistic by Christians is because they teach that God was once a man on a different planet who became a god, there are many gods, you can become a god, etc.

The Trinity, if explained incorrectly can seem polytheistic. Explaining it is not exactly an easy task. As Augustine said:

Try to explain the Trinity, and you'll lose your mind.
But try to deny the Trinity, and you'll lose your soul.

Anyway, the [Biblical] doctrine of Trinity is that there is ONE God, composed of three persons (that term being incorrect but our most correct way of saying it as someone else has pointed out): God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit. By saying "persons", I mean they are personal self-distinctions within a single divine essence. So, the Trinity isn't polytheistic for instead of being many divine essences, there is a single one.

So basically what Augustine said was, the trinity doesn't make any sense, but you better believe it anyway or go to hell. Boy he was SMART ONE.
Why do you refer to it as the Biblical doctrine of the trinity when the bible makes no mention of the trinity. How about looking at it for what it is. The council could not come to an agreement as to the essence of what Jesus was. So they came to a compromise and said, "Hey lets just say he is all three and make everybody happy." So you shouldn't mislead people and call it the "biblical" doctrine. Rather it should be called the council of Nicea doctrine.

1. No. Augustine was saying that the Trinity is a confusing doctrine, but it is a very important one.

2. The Trinity is mentioned in the Bible frequently. (Just not by the name "Trinity".) Here's some examples.

a. THE CREATION OF THE UNIVERSE- Here's a great example. Genesis 1:1-2 states: "In the beginning God* created the heavens and the earth. Now the earth was formless and empty, darkness was over the surface of the deep, and the Spirit of God was hovering over the waters."
So you have God creating the universe, and the Holy Spirit's there too. As for Jesus, look at the Targum Neofiti. This was an accepted translation of the Old Testament written in 200 B.C.
It says for Genesis 1:1- "In the beginnining by the Firstborn God created the heavens and the earth." So the Firstborn was there too and by him all of this was made. Is there proof inside our Bible that verifies this?
Yep. John 1:1-3. "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. He was with God in the beginning. Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made." And the Word is Jesus as John 1:14 clearly states.

b. THE BAPTISM OF JESUS- Another great one. Jesus, who is God in flesh as John 1:14 says, is being baptized by John the Baptist. Then you have the Spirit descend onto Jesus like a dove, and the Father declaring, "This is my Son, whom I love; with him I am well pleased". (Matthew 3:17) The whole Trinity is at the scene.

c. Isaiah 61:1 says, "The Spirit [Holy Spirit] of the Sovereign LORD [Father] is on me [Jesus], because the LORD has anointed me to preach good news to the poor. He has sent me to bind up the brokenhearted, to proclaim freedom for the captives and release from darkness for the prisoners,". This is a prophecy of Jesus, by the way. Once again, whole Trinity is referenced.

d. THE GREAT COMMISSION- Matthew 28:19- "Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit,". It would be heretical for Jesus to say this if these three were not the same God. Also, note that it is not "in the names of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit".

3. The Council of Nicea, in response to frequent heresises, laid out what the Bible said by stating that the Father is God, the Son is God, and the Holy Spirit is God. By the way, the council did not say that Jesus is the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. That is the heresy called modalism.

PS. This is getting really off-topic. I don't want this debate to comandeer this thread.

 

[Free]

The term "person" is applied because that is the closest we can come to it; it is the easiest way to understand it. Personality, at least here, does not equate to "being".

If you will be like what Jesus is like then according to your belief you will also be a trinity, do you believe that ?

No. That is not correct at all. Jesus is a part of the Trinity but he is not a Trinity in and of himself.

 

[mondar]

I find it fascinating that Christianity is so completely shattered today can everyone put down their denomination here in this thread to see where we differ and also can someone tell me why some don't consider Mormons or Jehovah's witnessess as Christians when that is what they say is there religion?

39,000 ? ... Where did you get this staggering figure ? ? ....
I thought it was 33,000 and even that seems like an awfully exaggerated figure !

Concerning the 39,000 myth.... I agree with Tina. I the number 39,000 is simply absurd and not even a remote possibility.

Just do a little math. If Christianity has a world census of 1.5 billion people (maybe exaggerated) and each denomination has at lease 40,000 people in it, it could still not reach 39,000 denominations. The numbers mean each denomination has to be smaller then 38,000 people to make the math work.

Possibly if you count every independent Church, each non-denominational Church, and every bible study as an entire denomination, then the numbers might work. Or could we just simply use the number of the world population (5 billion)? Naa, even if we use the number for the entire population of the earth, and divide it by 39,000, we still only get 129,000 people per denomination. What do we do with the "Southern Baptists" who number about 15 million. How do we count Roman Catholics in the world?

Oh well, I guess accuracy is not the point. I believe Christianity is divided by many heresies. Divisions began even in the NT during the book of Acts. Judiazers and Galatianists started the bowl rolling. Gnostics, Arians, Pelagians and many others kept things going after the 1st century.

This should not be surprising. Even before the last apostle, or the last writer of scripture had passed off the scene the Church received warnings.

Jude---3Dear friends, although I was very eager to write to you about the salvation we share, I felt I had to write and urge you to contend for the faith that was once for all entrusted to the saints. 4For certain men whose condemnation was written about long ago have secretly slipped in among you. They are godless men, who change the grace of our God into a license for immorality and deny Jesus Christ our only Sovereign and Lord.

John 2:18 Dear children, this is the last hour; and as you have heard that the antichrist is coming, even now many antichrists have come. This is how we know it is the last hour.

God never promised to keep the Church pure of all heretics and false teachers. In Deuteronomy 13:3 he told the Israelites why false prophets came among the people of Israel. Moses pretty well promises false prophets in this passage.

3 you must not listen to the words of that prophet or dreamer. The LORD your God is testing you to find out whether you love him with all your heart and with all your soul.

2nd Peter 2 tells us the same thing. Just as false prophets tested the people, so false teachers will test those in the Church.

1But there were also false prophets among the people, just as there will be false teachers among you. They will secretly introduce destructive heresies, even denying the sovereign Lord who bought themâ€â€bringing swift destruction on themselves. 2Many will follow their shameful ways and will bring the way of truth into disrepute.

The NT assembly will always be riddled with false teachers, just as Israel was laden with false prophets. This does not mean we are to forsake the NT Ecclesia, by no means. Did the OT prophets forsake Israel?

The fact that someone despises the institutional Church is nothing more then a false piety.

 

[francisdesales]

Concerning the 39,000 myth.... I agree with Tina. I the number 39,000 is simply absurd and not even a remote possibility.

I, too, think this number is inflated. I suppose it takes into account every variation of more specific denominations...

The NT assembly will always be riddled with false teachers, just as Israel was laden with false prophets. This does not mean we are to forsake the NT Ecclesia, by no means. Did the OT prophets forsake Israel?

The fact that someone despises the institutional Church is nothing more then a false piety.

Agree, again. Next, dogs and cats will be getting together... ;)

Regards

 

[Adullam]

I believe there are only 37,768 denominations at this time. Of course I cannot account for new ones popping up as I write this. ;)

We are called not to forsake the gathering of ourselves together.

An institution is like a fast-food chain. Head office comes up with a formula and then franchises this around the world. The fact that Christianity follows this business model does not in fact Christianize it. The institutional church is famous for repackaging pagan models as Christian. Hey...the people already love the pagan model...so if we Christianize the model....ipso-facto we Christianize the world. Or do we?

One cannot package the Spirit. One cannot market the Spirit. Unity of the faith is a struggle of spiritual growth. Unity is a process. For instance I can say that Cornelius (although I have never met him in person) and I are in perfect unity. Why? We have come through the same school of our Master Jesus Christ. We are joined in agapé. Agapé love is Christ's only denomination. Is this unity exclusive? No...all who go through the fire of spiritual training become one. So all here are or will be in perfect unity...provided we continue to grow in the Spirit.

We are to be joined in love. that is the only denomination that is truly Christian.