39,000 Christian denominations which one are you

[bodhitharta]

Welcome to the forum, I have found the forum both enlightening and fustrating, but it has given me the oppotunity to learn from fellow Christians and to see certain faults. The church I attend is a Baptist Church that has its roots as a Bible believing church. I am against all sorts of heresy in the modern church, but I do believe Jesus and the apostles warned us of this. We need to be vigilant and oppose these New Age ideals that are seducing Christianity.

- bodhitharta
I feel this quote is an attemt to be argumentative and has no real justification. If you had read the thread you would have learnt certain truths about the mormon faith that would have shown you clearly its non-christian standpoint. But seen you failed to read the thread I will make a few points now that might enlighten you to the mormon faith and their origins:
1) They were stated by a man called Joseph Smith in regards to visions he saw in 1820
2) They believe in salvation by works and not by grace.
3) The believe that God was human and through his obedience he recieved godship over earth.
4) We can all become Gods if we are obedient.(and recieve our own earths)
5) They were, up until about 1974 a racialistic church that deemed african-americans unworthy
6) Their doctrine is base apon the works of Joseph Smith and the bible is secondary.

I have only stated a few facts, maybe should attempt to understand these religions and read your bible where we are warned of false teachers and prophets, and we should not be decieved by them. I did not clearly understand your christian standpoint, but I feel you are a little oblivious to what is written in the bible.
Regarding the Holy spirit, this is something we cannot understand in full. But I will try and put some perspective to it. An egg is an egg, it is one egg, yet it is made up of three parts. The Yoke, The white and the shell. Each has its purpose yet they are ONE.

I have studied the Bible for over thirty years and I am well aware of its contents, I didn't say that I personally agreed with Mormonism, I asked how do you demonstrate that it is false when what you believe can be just as bizarre sounding to someone else.

The problem is most beliefs are not simply bible based what is bible based is that
God created Jesus called him son and anointed him to be a saviour and a king and that's it

To turn God into a trinity(for example) requires a stretch and mental gymnastics of the like similar to Mormonism. Using the egg analogy would certainly demonstrate to you that you believe that the egg has 3 distinct parts that are all equal but if this was the case with God, the scriptures would not say that you can blaspheme Jesus and it will be forgiven but blaspheming the Holy Spirit is unforgiveable
Luke 12:9-11 (King James Version)

10 And whosoever shall speak a word against the Son of man, it shall be forgiven him: but unto him that blasphemeth against the Holy Ghost it shall not be forgiven.

Leviticus 24:14-16 (King James Version)

15 And thou shalt speak unto the children of Israel, saying, Whosoever curseth his God shall bear his sin.

If Jesus was equivalent to God and cursing God is unforgiveable then Jesus could not be God, right? or God has lessor and greater parts?

 

[Vic C.]

First off, the number of these so-called denoms is off the wall, as a few of you so aptly pointed out.

Secondly, to try and describe a triune God with man made analogies does it injustice, because no one analogy is as perfect as the Godhead. Trying to briefly explain it or explain it away is useless also. It is a doctrine brought about in a very systematic fashion. To say the word trinity isn't in the Bible is akin to saying the phrase 'limited atonement' or 'unlimited atonement' isn't there either, though through systematic theology, it has been laid out and explained.

Just as there are those who don't believe in either a triune God or limited or unlimited atonement, does that make any of them less Biblical?

 

[Ed the Ned]

Secondly, to try and describe a triune God with man made analogies does it injustice, because no one analogy is as perfect as the Godhead. Trying to briefly explain it or explain it away is useless also. It is a doctrine brought about in a very systematic fashion. To say the word trinity isn't in the Bible is akin to saying the phrase 'limited atonement' or 'unlimited atonement' isn't there either, though through systematic theology, it has been laid out and explained.

I agree that the Holy spirit cannot be explained in full and in a certain sense my analogy does do injustice to the Holy spirit. It is something I have never fully understood and I am sure when I reach my eternal destiny that understanding will come apon me. Yet I believe it to be true and I have also asked questions regarding the heirachy in God (God, Jesus, Holy Spirit). but in my small wisdom I see them as equal with different duties. I have a Body, a mind, and spirit, yet I am one. I know this is not a trinity thread and I don't wish to start. So these will be my last statements reagrding the trinity.

I have studied the Bible for over thirty years and I am well aware of its contents, I didn't say that I personally agreed with Mormonism, I asked how do you demonstrate that it is false when what you believe can be just as bizarre sounding to someone else.

Thankyou for your clarity on the reasoning behind your question, but why argue for something you do not agree with. Should you not have put the question in the sense of how can we as christians help mormons understand the Christian faith as it is?

 

[mondar]

I am tracking down the 38,000 or 39,000 rumor. I still find it to be mathematically absurd. Here is as far as I got....

1--- I found a quote from Wiki. It said that there were 38,000 Christian denominations. It had a foot note. The source that the wiki writer was using was this web page.

http://christianity.about.com/od/denomi ... ntoday.htm

2--- I looked up the page quoted, and it was not original. It was quoting a page from a Gordon Conwell study at his web page....

http://clk.about.com/?zi=1/XJ&sdn=chris ... e.org/wcd/

3--- For the time being, my pursuit of the phantom number has ended. For some reason my web browser does not load the previous link.

*****Aparently there are some sort of wierdo stats out there claiming 38,000 denominations. I noticed that the "ChristianityToday" article claimed there are 2 billion Christians worldwide. I also noticed the breakdown.

Here is the mathamatical breakdown on that page....

Roman Catholics-----------1 billion
Eastern Orthodox---------225 million (Thats how many denominations so far?)
Protestant------------------500 million (Sheesh, how did they get that number?)
_________________________________
Total world Christian pop--- 2 billion (ahh-- give or take 275 million?)


I am guessing that they will count the bulk of different denominations as protestant. If I assume this to be correct it make the numbers far worse. That results in only about 15,000 people per demonination.

Can anyone know one denomination with only 15,000 people in it? I am sure there are a few out there somewhere? Where did they get these absurd numbers?

 

[Cornelius]

I agree that the Holy spirit cannot be explained in full

But we can look at what the Bible says

Mat 10:20 For it is not ye that speak, but the Spirit of your Father that speaketh in you.Joh 15:26 ......even the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, .....

Is the Spirit of the Father holy ?

 

[Vic C.]

Hi Mondar,

Yes, 2 billion worldwide is the number I'm most familiar with.

I got into that last link you posted and found this:

The World Christian Database represents over 9,000 Christian denominations throughout the world. The data regarding denominations is projected against people groups and country of residence. Because of this, complex reports can be generated about people groups or countries based on hundreds of possible variables.

Now I 'wonder' if the large number was calculated country by country, not taking into account duplicate denoms. For instance, was Southern Baptist counted as one denom or once for each country in which the SBC is established? That would jack up the number.

 

[mondar]

Now I 'wonder' if the large number was calculated country by country, not taking into account duplicate denoms. For instance, was Southern Baptist counted as one denom or once for each country in which the SBC is established? That would jack up the number.

Vic, I finally am on my home computer. I am able to browse that site now.

I see the 9k denominations. That is a far cry from 38k quoted by ChristianityToday.

When I look here.. http://christianity.about.com/gi/dynami ... e.org/wcd/

I notice that you are correct on the above URL. The number of denominations is broken down per country. There are 635 different denominations in the USA according to that page. There are 253 denominations in Britain. Of course, as you pointed out, not one of those denominations is the same. So then a Methodist in Britain is not counted in with a Methodist in the USA. My guess is that the statistics on this page count Roman Catholics as several hundred denominations. One for each country, and they all have the same Pope! It would work the same with all the Baptist Missionaries that planted Baptist denominations in other countries. These Mission activities then caused probably thousands of denominations. The point is that even the more accurate statistics of the last link would could not be used to demonstrate unity or diversity.

I suspect that the information on that page is correct. It seems more reasonable to me. My question would be how did the writer of the ChristianityToday article get 38k from the web page that says 9k? I guess not even the CT writers actually check their sources.

 

[joechrist]

I'm confused about one thing. The trinity states that God is in three forms, God, the son, and holy spirit. I've always believed that God is a spirit. If that is the case, how can you separate God and the holy spirit. Shouldn't it just be a duality(God and the Son).
Do people think that God is actually a physical being that also has a spirit that does his traveling for him? Am I wrong in believing that God is a spirit? If he is, why do we even have point out a holy spirit.

 

[bodhitharta]

I'm confused about one thing. The trinity states that God is in three forms, God, the son, and holy spirit. I've always believed that God is a spirit. If that is the case, how can you separate God and the holy spirit. Shouldn't it just be a duality(God and the Son).
Do people think that God is actually a physical being that also has a spirit that does his traveling for him? Am I wrong in believing that God is a spirit? If he is, why do we even have point out a holy spirit.

Not even a duality because his son can't be Him, So it should be like the Jews believe that there is God Alone and those who are obedient to Him are his children

 

[Free]

Okay, let's keep any discussion of the Trinity or the nature of God in "God in my flesh". There is no point and it will be too confusing to have it going on in two threads.

 

[bodhitharta]

Okay, let's keep any discussion of the Trinity or the nature of God in "God in my flesh". There is no point and it will be too confusing to have it going on in two threads.

We are not discussing any trinity, why would we discuss the trinity?

 

[Free]

You know what I am referring to--no talk of the nature of God.

 

[bodhitharta]

You know what I am referring to--no talk of the nature of God.

I apologize Free, I though we were in the "God in Flesh" thread.

Please forgive me and may God forgive me as well.

 

[Free]

lol...of course. It is quite alright. :nod

 

[bodhitharta]

lol...of course. It is quite alright. :nod

It just shows that when you first intervened you were correct saying it would be confusing having the same topic spoke about in two different new threads. God bless you!