5 Points of Tulip???

[finch]

Ok so here they are:
Total Depravity
Unconditional Election
Limited Atonement
Irrestible Grace
Perserverance of the Saints

I have a soccer coach that loves to discuss this topic and i would like to know all of your opinions. Thanks

 

[Nocturnal_Principal_X]

After much prayer, searching of the scriptures, and various deep long theological discussions with people who know the Bible well I have come to accept all five points.

 

[Bubba]

"It does not, therefore, depend on man's desire or effort, but on God's mercy."

 

[AVBunyan]

Many folks have a hard time with grace because they just can't accept total depravity. They think that they have some spark of good in them that can choose God. People don't like the idea of being "altogether vanity" in their best state. :o

Folks have a high opinion of themselves for no reason at all. :roll:

God bless 8-)

 

[jpark320]

Many folks have a hard time with grace because they just can't accept total depravity. They think that they have some spark of good in them that can choose God. People don't like the idea of being "altogether vanity" in their best state. :o

Folks have a high opinion of themselves for no reason at all. :roll:

God bless 8-)

Agreed too many ppl assume that they deserve good while they could assume they deserve nothing good. This highlights our innate selfish and sinfulness.

In one sentence i think TULIP is:

The fact that man is utter sinful (totally deprived) and that God is sovereign and controls every aspect of life including time and who gets into heaven or not; to show otherwise would take the control and power out of God's hands (and as a consequence into ours).

[i cheated a lil i kno haha ... :smt044 ]

 

[James1979]

I agree as well as I don't title my beliefts on abbreviation or a dead man's name(such as Calvin, and others) but the tulips is the true gospel.

A perfect example of our condition is like the story of Lazarus in John 11 and also Adam before his received the breath of life into his nostrils, a body without life cannot do anything on its own. It simply has to wait for the giver of life to live.

 

[Khristeeanos]

TULIP didn't exist until John Calvin, so how can it be Biblical? :

There are many false teachings that crept into the church around 1,500. Some of them are Calvinism, faith alone, and baptism being only a sign.

 

[AVBunyan]

There are many false teachings that crept into the church around 1,500. Some of them are Calvinism, faith alone, and baptism being only a sign.

So... instead of faith alone it is faith plus works?

So...instead of baptism just being a sign then it is essential to salvation?

So...what are you trusting to get you to heaven?

 

[JM]

There are many false teachings that crept into the church around 1,500. Some of them are Calvinism, faith alone, and baptism being only a sign.

So... instead of faith alone it is faith plus works?

So...instead of baptism just being a sign then it is essential to salvation?

So...what are you trusting to get you to heaven?

Good point.

 

[Nocturnal_Principal_X]

TULIP didn't exist until John Calvin, so how can it be Biblical? :

There are many false teachings that crept into the church around 1,500. Some of them are Calvinism, faith alone, and baptism being only a sign.

Well the concept of Tulip or as many like to call it “The doctrines of grace†are theological concepts that are found by looking at the whole of scripture, like the Trinity which the word itself is not in the bible either. Oh yeah, just so you know the concepts found in Tulip actually originated with Augustine.

I myself, as you may remember, was against Calvinism and particularly Predestination however after much prayer, reading the Bible, and various long theological discussion I have since accepted it. I must add that even though I accept the Doctrines of grace I do not really consider myself a Calvinist but Reformed (there is a difference) because I don’t accept everything that Calvin does (such infant Baptism).

In any event I suggest you do more research.

As for

[…] There are many false teachings that crept into the church around 1,500. Some of them are […] faith alone baptism being only a sign.

Interesting I believe both things you listed as false teachings…oh well.

 

[cubedbee]

The "L" is false, Christ died for all, and nothing in the Bible indicates otherwise.

 

[farley]

Hmmmm...well...it seems that most of those who've posted above must think that they are predestined to be one of the elect.

If this is true, then please explain to me, with BCV references, how you came to have this foreknowledge of your destiny!

Also, if you do truly feel like you are one predestined to salvation, then please, explain to me why you are posting in online forums such as this one?

Are you seeking pleasure by gloating over your good fortune in front of those less fortunate, rubbing it in our faces, so to speak?

Or, do you think that you are able to evangelize those predestined to condemnation, BCV please, thereby altering the destiny of those so fated?

And even more importantly, why aren't you out debauching yourself at every possible oportunity, in every manner concievable, since you each must feel like you have a "GET OUT OF HELL...FREE!" card, right?

In Christ,

farley

 

[Khristeeanos]

There are many false teachings that crept into the church around 1,500. Some of them are Calvinism, faith alone, and baptism being only a sign.

So... instead of faith alone it is faith plus works?

I never said anything about works. But the Bible only mentions the two words "faith" and "alone" one time and it says:

James 2:24
You see that a person is justified by what he does and not by faith alone.

So...instead of baptism just being a sign then it is essential to salvation?

That was the universal teaching of the Church until Huldreich Zwingli came around and taught otherwise. Here is proof:

What I will say now may surprise some, but the truth is this: the modern evangelical view of baptism is actually the new view, an interpretation of baptism that was invented only in the early 1520s. It was created by the Swiss reformer Huldreich Zwingli (1484-1531), developed further by John Calvin, and accepted throughout most of the Protestant world.

Until Zwingli, the entire Christian world for the first 1,500 years of its history was in agreement: water baptism is the God-appointed time when he first gives saving grace to sinners. Exceptions to this belief were extremely rare, limited mostly to medieval dualist sects that rejected all physical forms of worship.

LINK

So...what are you trusting to get you to heaven?

Jesus, not a doctrine or a group of systematic theology.

It is just like the original Christians. They didn't bother with all this theology, they were more worried about how to live the life after becoming a Christian.

 

[wavy]

Total Depravity

Humility. I don't know about "depravity"...

 

[Merry Menagerie]

I have a problem with total depravity and I have never quite understood limited atonement. Perserverance of the Saints I agree with 100% but Irrestible grace has only just been opened up to me and I'm research that still.

 

[Klee shay]

It's funny how we take the things of religion and apply it to God, when it was God who wrote the book of religion. :wink:

I don't know enough about TULIP to comment, but I do like to open up the box a little and allow the Lord to breathe. He's completely blown me right off my comfortable pedistall a few times and I've learn that it's never wise to hedge your bets on anything but the Lord.

He reserves the right to drop you on the cornerstone to break the box he's been placed in; if it is his will a person truly seeks as their salvation. He can't reach a person through the box you see. If they love him they will trust him when they are allowed to fall and be broken. If they can't love him when this process happens, they soon learn to when they realise he is working the hardest to put them back together again.

Whether it's TULIP, OSAS, Catholicism, Protestant or any of the other theology/religous based teachings...when it comes to faith in anything - it has to be about God first and foremost. As well as the love which was demonstrated by his Son towards others. Knowledge is not God. God is God and we have to trust him in our ignorance - for we will never know it all in this lifetime. Only in the next...and it is the love Jesus demonstrated that will carry us to it.

 

[AVBunyan]

So...what are you trusting to get you to heaven?

Jesus, not a doctrine or a group of systematic theology.

It is just like the original Christians. They didn't bother with all this theology, they were more worried about how to live the life after becoming a Christian.

If you are counting on baptism plus anything besides faith then you are not trusting Christ alone. You are involved with a works salvation.

By the way - I am not trusting a doctrine or a group of systematic theology - I am trusting the shed blood of Jesus Christ and what He did at Calvary alone. Nothing I can do can add or take away from my position in Christ which is perfect holiness and righteousness.

Many of you here are counting on your walk to determine your position - this is called WORKS.

God bless

 

[Nocturnal_Principal_X]

Interesting questions and discussion, when time permits I will address them in the mend time I to have a comment about the following:

It is just like the original Christians. They didn't bother with all this theology, they were more worried about how to live the life after becoming a Christian.

Really, what do you call the Paul epistles? If memory serves me correctly the letters dealt with false doctrines and false prophets…which…uh…deals with theology.

Now I agree that an obsessive exploration or devotion to theology should be avoided, however; a natural part of growing as a Christian involves learning about doctrine. Christ and ones relationship with Him should ALWAYS be the most important part of a Christians walk but in order to grow in ones walk doctrine must be exploredâ€â€which of coarse would involve looking at theology.

 

[Merry Menagerie]

Well growing up in a church that dis-allowed you to look into any other theology other than the one they served up, it feels good to be able to take a look at other theologies and doctrines and be able to weigh them up against the scriptures themselves. I feel very free to do this now, whereas before, I thought I'd go to hell for it.

At the end of the day, it's Christ that matters and Christ alone.

 

[bbas 64]

The "L" is false, Christ died for all, and nothing in the Bible indicates otherwise.

Good Day, Cubedee

Mat 1:21 And she shall bring forth a son; and thou shalt call his name JESUS; for it is he that shall save his people from their sins.


He only came to save his people, where in the Scripture does it say he came to save all? If he in fact came to save all he has fallen short and will spend eternity un forfilled.

He saves his people, his sheep, the ones given to him by the Father. He does not only try too, he really does save them.

All the Father gives me I "will" rasie up on the last day......

Peace to u,

Bill