5 Points of Tulip???

[JM]

A quote from http://www.calvinistgadfly.com

You might be a Redneck Calvinist if…

the church you attend is not seeker-friendly, but cigar-friendly.

you hear “Free Will,†and think about bailing out your cousin “Will†in jail.

your dad uses the double barrel shotgun for his own “effectual calling.â€Â

you think that an Amyrauldian is road kill.

BHT means Barbeque Hogs Tonight.

the only overalls you will buy are made by Calvin.

you compliment your wife with, “God has ordained your voice to sound like a chainsaw.â€Â

your church has justfied to include the banjo and harmonica under the Regulative Principle.

your church refuses to call the church picnic a Potluck.

you have the five solas tattooed on your arm.

Cheers,
Alan Kurschner

You might be a Redneck Arminian if…

you hear “Irresistible Grace†and think of your cousin.

there is a fiddle accompaniment with Just as I am.

your exegesis consists of having 2 Peter 3:9 tattooed on your arm.

when you hear “RC†you think of Cola.

you think that supralapsarian is a newly breed dog.

you possess more Charles Finney books than teeth.

when the preacher mentions that we are but lumps of clay, you think of Mud Bogs.

you hear someone say Ordo Salutis and think they had too much moonshine.

you think “Spurgeon†is something you catch with rod & reel from your brother-in-law’s boat.

when you hear the Institutes you think of where many of your relatives live.

“The Chief End of Man†is where you end up after “The Fall of Man.â€Â

you think that “Limited Atonement†is a single barrel shotgun.

you purchase your Dave Hunt books through the Home Shopping Network.

when you hear “five points†it reminds you of your average monthly reduction in your driver’s recrd.

you have a bumper sticker on your truck that says, “If there ain’t free will in heaven, I don’t want to go.â€Â

Cheers,
Alan Kurschner

 

[Lyric's Dad]

I reject calvinism and arminianism.

I pretty much just am into Jesusism.

 

[cubedbee]

The "L" is false, Christ died for all, and nothing in the Bible indicates otherwise.

Good Day, Cubedee

Mat 1:21 And she shall bring forth a son; and thou shalt call his name JESUS; for it is he that shall save his people from their sins.


He only came to save his people, where in the Scripture does it say he came to save all?

The Scripture says it so many times I’m honestly surprised you could be asking me this.

1 Timothy 2:5-6 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus; Who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time.

Hebrews 2:9 But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man.

1 John 2:2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.

1 Corinthians 15:22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.

If he in fact came to save all he has fallen short and will spend eternity un forfilled.

Wow, that’s an awfully pride-filled statement. I’m going to trust the Lordâ€â€he did in fact come to save all as is clearly evidenced in the Scripture, and I know God will never fall short in anything he wills.

He saves his people, his sheep, the ones given to him by the Father. He does not only try too, he really does save them.

All the Father gives me I "will" rasie up on the last day......

Peace to u,

Bill

Yes, I agree with this. The difference is, I don’t limit the scope of God’s power.

 

[Lyric's Dad]

Amen Cubed. That is the truth and there is nothing that can come against it.

I find it reprehensible for some to reduce God to a being that would create some humans for the sole purpose of burning them. That is maniacal and not in any form a loving thing.

 

[bbas 64]

The "L" is false, Christ died for all, and nothing in the Bible indicates otherwise.

Good Day, Cubedee

Mat 1:21 And she shall bring forth a son; and thou shalt call his name JESUS; for it is he that shall save his people from their sins.


He only came to save his people, where in the Scripture does it say he came to save all?

The Scripture says it so many times I’m honestly surprised you could be asking me this.

1 Timothy 2:5-6 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus; Who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time.

Hebrews 2:9 But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man.

1 John 2:2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.

1 Corinthians 15:22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.

If he in fact came to save all he has fallen short and will spend eternity un forfilled.

Wow, that’s an awfully pride-filled statement. I’m going to trust the Lordâ€â€he did in fact come to save all as is clearly evidenced in the Scripture, and I know God will never fall short in anything he wills.

[quote:98842]
He saves his people, his sheep, the ones given to him by the Father. He does not only try too, he really does save them.

All the Father gives me I "will" rasie up on the last day......

Peace to u,

Bill

Yes, I agree with this. The difference is, I don’t limit the scope of God’s power.[/quote:98842]

Good Day,

None of the Sriptures you posted said "he came to save all"... do you have one that say THAT? " he came to save all""

Mat 1:21 And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name JESUS: for he shall save his people from their sins.


You Said

"Wow, that’s an awfully pride-filled statement. I’m going to trust the Lordâ€â€he did in fact come to save all as is clearly evidenced in the Scripture, and I know God will never fall short in anything he wills.


Assertion, yopu have not provided a passage that says "he came to save all"

Mat 1:21 And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name JESUS: for he shall save his people from their sins.


Are all people saved??

Is it Gods will that all people be saved?

How have I limted the power of God?? He uses his power to SAVE HIS PEOPLE.

Mat 1:21 And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name JESUS: for he shall save his people from their sins.

Peace to u,

Bill

 

[bbas 64]

Amen Cubed. That is the truth and there is nothing that can come against it.

I find it reprehensible for some to reduce God to a being that would create some humans for the sole purpose of burning them. That is maniacal and not in any form a loving thing.

Good Day, Lyric's Dad

All things are creatated for his purpose, you may not like that but oh well... You are the created one not the creator.

Rom 9:20 Nay but, O man, who art thou that repliest against God? Shall the thing formed say to him that formed it, Why didst thou make me thus?




Peace to u,

Bill

 

[Lyric's Dad]

[quote="Lyric's Dad":67318]Amen Cubed. That is the truth and there is nothing that can come against it.

I find it reprehensible for some to reduce God to a being that would create some humans for the sole purpose of burning them. That is maniacal and not in any form a loving thing.

Good Day, Lyric's Dad

All things are creatated for his purpose, you may not like that but oh well... You are the created one not the creator.

Rom 9:20 Nay but, O man, who art thou that repliest against God? Shall the thing formed say to him that formed it, Why didst thou make me thus?




Peace to u,

Bill[/quote:67318]LOL!! You find some peace in such a statement?

Sorry, my God is not a charles manson type who sat down with an evil grin and put together little creatures so He could use them as firewood to keep it burning. Yeah, that just sounds a little sick.

God even condemned the pagan groups who made their children walk through the fire. Hey, at least those people let their kids die in the fire. According to the L, God created people for the sole purpose of forever listening to them cry in torment. Sorry, that is not a God but a demon.

My God said He is love. I am a finite being and can see that this type of thing is not at all loving. I, as a sinner and a wretch could never do that to anyone, not even my worst enemy so am I to believe that the One who IS perfect love could? No freaking way. Jesus is love, not hate and I will never believe otherwise, even if some calvin wants me to.

 

[farley]

bbas 64,

You stated...

All the Father gives me I "will" rasie up on the last day......

Me thinks that if you had also included the very next verse, following the verse you 'VERY LOOSELY para-phrased' above, the context would be properly rendered, thus totally reversing the meaning of the message you are implying.

John 6 KJV
(39) And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.
(40) And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.

In my view, the passage above also clarifies an earlier passage in John...

John 1 KJV
(10) He was in the world, and the world was made by him, and the world knew him not.
(11) He came unto his own, and his own received him not.
(12) But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:
(13) Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.

Clearly, ANY believer in Christ holds the power of salvation in his own hands!

In Christ,

farley

 

[bbas 64]

bbas 64,

You stated...

All the Father gives me I "will" rasie up on the last day......

Me thinks that if you had also included the very next verse, following the verse you 'VERY LOOSELY para-phrased' above, the context would be properly rendered, thus totally reversing the meaning of the message you are implying.

John 6 KJV
(39) And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.
(40) And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.

In my view, the passage above also clarifies an earlier passage in John...

John 1 KJV
(10) He was in the world, and the world was made by him, and the world knew him not.
(11) He came unto his own, and his own received him not.
(12) But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:
(13) Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.

Clearly, ANY believer in Christ holds the power of salvation in his own hands!

In Christ,

farley

Good Day, Farley

This was the verse I had in mind.

Joh 6:44 No man can come to me, except the Father that sent me draw him: and I will raise him up in the last day.

But the ones you posted work just as well. I think John 1 is clear and needs no clarification as is Jn6.

Peace to u,

Bill

 

[bbas 64]

http://www.biblebb.com/files/MAC/SC03-1027.htm[/url]

Spurgeon notes:

"The Arminians say, 'Christ died for all men.' Ask them what they mean by it. Did Christ die so as to secure the salvation of all men? They say, 'No, certainly not.' We ask them the next question: Did Christ die so as to secure the salvation of any man in particular? They answer 'No.' They are obliged to admit this, if they are consistent. They say, 'No; Christ has died that any man may be saved if ?' and then follow certain conditions of salvation. Now, who is it that limits the death of Christ? Why, you. You say that Christ did not die so as infallibly to secure the salvation of anybody. We beg your pardon, when you say we limit Christ's death; we say, 'No, my dear sir, it is you that do it.' We say Christ so died that he infallibly secured the salvation of a multitude that no man can number, who through Christ's death not only may be saved, but are saved, must be saved and cannot by any possibility run the hazard of being anything but saved. You are welcome to your atonement; you may keep it. We will never renounce ours for the sake of it."
-- Charles Haddon Spurgeon


You can have yours, as Jesus died to save His people..

Peace to u,

Bill

 

[Lyric's Dad]

http://www.biblebb.com/files/MAC/SC03-1027.htm[/url]

Spurgeon notes:

"The Arminians say, 'Christ died for all men.' Ask them what they mean by it. Did Christ die so as to secure the salvation of all men? They say, 'No, certainly not.' We ask them the next question: Did Christ die so as to secure the salvation of any man in particular? They answer 'No.' They are obliged to admit this, if they are consistent. They say, 'No; Christ has died that any man may be saved if ?' and then follow certain conditions of salvation. Now, who is it that limits the death of Christ? Why, you. You say that Christ did not die so as infallibly to secure the salvation of anybody. We beg your pardon, when you say we limit Christ's death; we say, 'No, my dear sir, it is you that do it.' We say Christ so died that he infallibly secured the salvation of a multitude that no man can number, who through Christ's death not only may be saved, but are saved, must be saved and cannot by any possibility run the hazard of being anything but saved. You are welcome to your atonement; you may keep it. We will never renounce ours for the sake of it."
-- Charles Haddon Spurgeon


You can have yours, as Jesus died to save His people..

Peace to u,

Bill[/quote:99366]Well, this is one place we will NEVER come to an agreement at. I will never reconcile God being a forever torturer with His statement that He IS love. They are not compatible. And as for Spurgeon? I could care less what he thought. He is fallible and not the One I follow.

 

[cubedbee]

[quote="bbas 64":0465b]

The "L" is false, Christ died for all, and nothing in the Bible indicates otherwise.

Good Day, Cubedee

Mat 1:21 And she shall bring forth a son; and thou shalt call his name JESUS; for it is he that shall save his people from their sins.


He only came to save his people, where in the Scripture does it say he came to save all?

The Scripture says it so many times I’m honestly surprised you could be asking me this.

1 Timothy 2:5-6 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus; Who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time.

Hebrews 2:9 But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man.

1 John 2:2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.

1 Corinthians 15:22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.

If he in fact came to save all he has fallen short and will spend eternity un forfilled.

Wow, that’s an awfully pride-filled statement. I’m going to trust the Lordâ€â€he did in fact come to save all as is clearly evidenced in the Scripture, and I know God will never fall short in anything he wills.

[quote:0465b]
He saves his people, his sheep, the ones given to him by the Father. He does not only try too, he really does save them.

All the Father gives me I "will" rasie up on the last day......

Peace to u,

Bill

Yes, I agree with this. The difference is, I don’t limit the scope of God’s power.[/quote:0465b]

Good Day,

None of the Sriptures you posted said "he came to save all"... do you have one that say THAT? " he came to save all""[/quote:0465b]The verses I posted do in fact say that. The exact phrase "he came to save all" doesn't occur, nor does the exact word Trinity, but both are clearly taught. I posted the verses--they refer to salvation. If you think they do not, what are they referring to?

"Wow, that’s an awfully pride-filled statement. I’m going to trust the Lordâ€â€he did in fact come to save all as is clearly evidenced in the Scripture, and I know God will never fall short in anything he wills.


Assertion, yopu have not provided a passage that says "he came to save all"

And you haven't provided one that says "He did not come to save all" So what? I provided verses that convey my assertion that Christ came to save all(yes, there are synonyms for save used in the Bible), while you in fact have not provided evidence for your assertion . You have to prove that "his people" refers to a limited number of people, instead of all people.

Are all people saved??

Not currently.

Is it Gods will that all people be saved?

Yes, it is. Does it get clearer than this?

1Ti 2:3-4 For this [is] good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour; Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.

How have I limted the power of God?? He uses his power to SAVE HIS PEOPLE.

Mat 1:21 And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name JESUS: for he shall save his people from their sins.

Peace to u,

Bill

You've limited it by implying that HIS PEOPLE are only a limited number of people who meet whatever set of criteria you have in your head, instead of all of humanity as God has made clear throughout the Scripture. I am taking the words at their face value--God wills that all be saved, Christ died for all, my God is omnipotent, the power of Christ's death cannot be resisted, therefore all will be saved. Any other "interpretation" is a pure denial of the Scripture.

 

[bbas 64]

http://www.biblebb.com/files/MAC/SC03-1027.htm[/url]

Spurgeon notes:

"The Arminians say, 'Christ died for all men.' Ask them what they mean by it. Did Christ die so as to secure the salvation of all men? They say, 'No, certainly not.' We ask them the next question: Did Christ die so as to secure the salvation of any man in particular? They answer 'No.' They are obliged to admit this, if they are consistent. They say, 'No; Christ has died that any man may be saved if ?' and then follow certain conditions of salvation. Now, who is it that limits the death of Christ? Why, you. You say that Christ did not die so as infallibly to secure the salvation of anybody. We beg your pardon, when you say we limit Christ's death; we say, 'No, my dear sir, it is you that do it.' We say Christ so died that he infallibly secured the salvation of a multitude that no man can number, who through Christ's death not only may be saved, but are saved, must be saved and cannot by any possibility run the hazard of being anything but saved. You are welcome to your atonement; you may keep it. We will never renounce ours for the sake of it."
-- Charles Haddon Spurgeon


You can have yours, as Jesus died to save His people..

Peace to u,

Bill[/quote:49097]Well, this is one place we will NEVER come to an agreement at. I will never reconcile God being a forever torturer with His statement that He IS love. They are not compatible. And as for Spurgeon? I could care less what he thought. He is fallible and not the One I follow.[/quote:49097]

Good Day, Lyric's Dad

I agree God is love, but it does not follow that because of this no one goes to hell to suffer justly for ever. Never come to agreement, fear not God is not done with either of us.

I thought the doctrive of UR was banned here???

Peace to u,

Bill

 

[Solo]

Man has wishes and hopes that may be deluded with selfish bias, but God's Word is true and Jesus never lies. Jesus speaks of "Aionios" life for the sheep, and "Aionios" punishment for the goats. I do not believe that Jesus could be any clearer on the truth than this.

Notice that in verse 41 Jesus speaks to the fact that the eternal punishment was created for the immortal devil and his immortal angels, not man. Man has chosen his own demise into eternal punishment because of his denial of God's way, truth, path.


31 When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory: 32 And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats: 33 And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left. 34 Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world: 35 For I was an hungred, and ye gave me meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me in: 36 Naked, and ye clothed me: I was sick, and ye visited me: I was in prison, and ye came unto me. 37 Then shall the righteous answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, and fed thee? or thirsty, and gave thee drink? 38 When saw we thee a stranger, and took thee in? or naked, and clothed thee? 39 Or when saw we thee sick, or in prison, and came unto thee? 40 And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me. 41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels: 42 For I was an hungred, and ye gave me no meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me no drink: 43 I was a stranger, and ye took me not in: naked, and ye clothed me not: sick, and in prison, and ye visited me not. 44 Then shall they also answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, or athirst, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not minister unto thee? 45 Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to me. 46 And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.
Matthew 25:31-46 KJV

31 But, whensoever the Son of Man shall come in his glory, and all the messengers with him, then will he sit on his throne of glory; 32 And there will be gathered before him, all the nations, and he will separate them one from another, just as, the shepherd! separateth the sheep from the goats, - 33 And he will set, the sheep, indeed, on his right hand, but, the goats, on the left. 34 Then, will the king say to those on his right hand: Come ye, the blessed of my Father! Inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world; 35 For I hungered, and ye gave me to eat, I thirsted, and ye gave me drink, a stranger, was I, and ye took me home, 36 Naked, and ye clothed me, sick, and ye visited me, in prison, was I, and ye came unto me. 37 Then, will the righteous answer him, saying: Lord! when, saw we thee - hungry, and fed thee, or thirsty, and gave thee drink? 38 And, when, saw we thee - a stranger, and took thee home, or naked, and clothed thee? 39 And, when, saw we thee - sick, or in prison, and came unto thee? 40 And, answering, the king will say unto them: Verily, I say unto you - Inasmuch as ye did it unto one of these my least brethren, unto me, ye did it. 41 Then, will he say unto those also, on his left hand: Depart ye from me, accursed ones! Into the age-abiding fire, which hath been prepared for the adversary and his messengers; 42 For I hungered, and ye gave me not to eat, and I was thirsty, and ye gave me not to drink, 43 A stranger, was I, and ye took me not home, naked, and ye clothed me not, sick, and in prison, and ye visited me not. 44 Then, will, they also, answer, saying: Lord! when saw we thee - hungry, or thirsty, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and ministered not unto thee? 45 Then, will he answer them, saying: Verily, I say unto you - Inasmuch as ye did it not, unto one of these least, neither unto me, did ye it. 46 And, these, shall go away, into, age-abiding, correction, but, the righteous, into, age-abiding, life.
Matthew 25:31-46 The J.B. Rotherham Emphasized Bible


It is interesting that the sheep will go away into age-abiding life, while the goats will go away into age-abiding correction according to J.B. Rotherham. The King James translates that the sheep will go away into life eternal, while the goats go away into everlasting punishment.

The transliterated Greek word for that translation of age-abiding, everlasting, eternal is Aionios which is an adjective meaning:

1. without beginning and end, that which always has been and always will be
2. without beginning
3. without end, never to cease, everlasting


God has given man every opportunity to believe so that he can escape the same end as the devil and his angels. The choice is for each individual to make just as the choice was the devil's and the angels'.

 

[cubedbee]

Man has wishes and hopes that may be deluded with selfish bias, but God's Word is true and Jesus never lies. Jesus speaks of "Aionios" life for the sheep, and "Aionios" punishment for the goats. I do not believe that Jesus could be any clearer on the truth than this.

Notice that in verse 41 Jesus speaks to the fact that the eternal punishment was created for the immortal devil and his immortal angels, not man. Man has chosen his own demise into eternal punishment because of his denial of God's way, truth, path.

Your first paragraph is absolute truth. Your second paragraph is not, it is a mistranslation into English, it takes something that is a finite age that Christ will ultimately end when he accomplishes God's will, a will that cannot be resisted or twarted, and falsely portrays it as eternal, a portrayal which makes a liar out of God and makes him powerless over sin, unable to ultimately conquer it even though he wills it. I will not deny God's sovereignty, God's omnipotence. Neither will I deny hell. The only way to reconcile these two is two correctly translate Aionios as an age, one of finite duration, a meaning which is definitely valid for the word and which is definitely used in certain Bible passages.

 

[Solo]

Man has wishes and hopes that may be deluded with selfish bias, but God's Word is true and Jesus never lies. Jesus speaks of "Aionios" life for the sheep, and "Aionios" punishment for the goats. I do not believe that Jesus could be any clearer on the truth than this.

Notice that in verse 41 Jesus speaks to the fact that the eternal punishment was created for the immortal devil and his immortal angels, not man. Man has chosen his own demise into eternal punishment because of his denial of God's way, truth, path.

Your first paragraph is absolute truth. Your second paragraph is not, it is a mistranslation into English, it takes something that is a finite age that Christ will ultimately end when he accomplishes God's will, a will that cannot be resisted or twarted, and falsely portrays it as eternal, a portrayal which makes a liar out of God and makes him powerless over sin, unable to ultimately conquer it even though he wills it. I will not deny God's sovereignty, God's omnipotence. Neither will I deny hell. The only way to reconcile these two is two correctly translate Aionios as an age, one of finite duration, a meaning which is definitely valid for the word and which is definitely used in certain Bible passages.

You will have to show me the true translation of this scripture that Jesus teaches because your word is not inspired. I used two references that showed the truth, and my Greek text shows the same. What you call a mistranslation is hogwash IMHO.

As I pointed out, the same word is used for eternal life which is not finite. Your bias is causing you to twist the Word of God for your own purposes.

 

[Lyric's Dad]

I thought the doctrive of UR was banned here???

Peace to u,

Bill

Where were we debating UR? I thought we were discussing the fallacy of TULIP and the limited atonement lie?

 

[Solo]

[quote="bbas 64":262eb]I thought the doctrive of UR was banned here???

Peace to u,

Bill

Where were we debating UR? I thought we were discussing the fallacy of TULIP and the limited atonement lie?
[/quote:262eb]
Here is a reminder for you, Lyric's Dad of who brought Universal Reconciliation into the thread, and continued to promote it throughout the recent postings:

Well, this is one place we will NEVER come to an agreement at. I will never reconcile God being a forever torturer with His statement that He IS love. They are not compatible. And as for Spurgeon? I could care less what he thought. He is fallible and not the One I follow.

Just thought since you claim to follow Jesus, quoting him in scripture with the correct translation would be something that would edify your walk and correct any error that you may be holding on to. The Word of God teaches the truth for those who are in error. My post has nothing to do with Universal Reconciliation. I think Universal Reconciliation is a topic banned on this forum, therefore, I will teach the truth that Jesus teaches. Jesus teaches in Matthew 25 about the eternal destiny of the sheep and goats. They both go to two different places, one group to eternal life, and the other group to eternal punishment. When folks understand their eternal destiny without Jesus is going to be a terrible price to pay for a temporary period of sinful pleasure, they will seek out Jesus Christ for salvation.

Let us not teach lies for the truth of God's Word, especially when Jesus is so plain and precise as to the eternal destiny of each person born of the flesh.

Now for some history of this thread. The very first post that referred to Universal Reconsiliation was the following:

The "L" is false, Christ died for all, and nothing in the Bible indicates otherwise.

The next post to promote Universal Reconciliation is also from cubedbee with the following post:

The Scripture says it so many times I’m honestly surprised you could be asking me this.

1 Timothy 2:5-6 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus; Who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time.

Hebrews 2:9 But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man.

1 John 2:2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.

1 Corinthians 15:22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.

.....

Wow, that’s an awfully pride-filled statement. I’m going to trust the Lordâ€â€he did in fact come to save all as is clearly evidenced in the Scripture, and I know God will never fall short in anything he wills.

.....

Yes, I agree with this. The difference is, I don’t limit the scope of God’s power.

The next post promoting Universal Reconciliation is from Lyric's Dad with the following post:

Amen Cubed. That is the truth and there is nothing that can come against it.

I find it reprehensible for some to reduce God to a being that would create some humans for the sole purpose of burning them. That is maniacal and not in any form a loving thing.

Then comes another from Lyric's Dad that continues with further promotion of Universal Reconciliation:

LOL!! You find some peace in such a statement?

Sorry, my God is not a charles manson type who sat down with an evil grin and put together little creatures so He could use them as firewood to keep it burning. Yeah, that just sounds a little sick.

God even condemned the pagan groups who made their children walk through the fire. Hey, at least those people let their kids die in the fire. According to the L, God created people for the sole purpose of forever listening to them cry in torment. Sorry, that is not a God but a demon.

My God said He is love. I am a finite being and can see that this type of thing is not at all loving. I, as a sinner and a wretch could never do that to anyone, not even my worst enemy so am I to believe that the One who IS perfect love could? No freaking way. Jesus is love, not hate and I will never believe otherwise, even if some calvin wants me to.

Next is a response to bbas 64 from Lyric's Dad:

Well, this is one place we will NEVER come to an agreement at. I will never reconcile God being a forever torturer with His statement that He IS love. They are not compatible. And as for Spurgeon? I could care less what he thought. He is fallible and not the One I follow.

Then cubedbee sets out on further Universal Reconciliation promotion in this post:

The verses I posted do in fact say that. The exact phrase "he came to save all" doesn't occur, nor does the exact word Trinity, but both are clearly taught. I posted the verses--they refer to salvation. If you think they do not, what are they referring to?

Quote:

"Wow, that’s an awfully pride-filled statement. I’m going to trust the Lordâ€â€he did in fact come to save all as is clearly evidenced in the Scripture, and I know God will never fall short in anything he wills.


Assertion, yopu have not provided a passage that says "he came to save all"


And you haven't provided one that says "He did not come to save all" So what? I provided verses that convey my assertion that Christ came to save all(yes, there are synonyms for save used in the Bible), while you in fact have not provided evidence for your assertion . You have to prove that "his people" refers to a limited number of people, instead of all people.

Quote:

Are all people saved??
Not currently.
Quote:

Is it Gods will that all people be saved?
Yes, it is. Does it get clearer than this?

1Ti 2:3-4 For this [is] good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour; Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.

Quote:

How have I limted the power of God?? He uses his power to SAVE HIS PEOPLE.

Mat 1:21 And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name JESUS: for he shall save his people from their sins.

Peace to u,

Bill
You've limited it by implying that HIS PEOPLE are only a limited number of people who meet whatever set of criteria you have in your head, instead of all of humanity as God has made clear throughout the Scripture. I am taking the words at their face value--God wills that all be saved, Christ died for all, my God is omnipotent, the power of Christ's death cannot be resisted, therefore all will be saved. Any other "interpretation" is a pure denial of the Scripture.

After all of this Universal Reconciliation promotion in the thread specifically posted for the 5 points of Tulip, I posted Jesus teaching on the eternal position of sheeps and goats in Matthew 25.

Cubedbee answers my post with the following Universal Reconciliation post:

Your first paragraph is absolute truth. Your second paragraph is not, it is a mistranslation into English, it takes something that is a finite age that Christ will ultimately end when he accomplishes God's will, a will that cannot be resisted or twarted, and falsely portrays it as eternal, a portrayal which makes a liar out of God and makes him powerless over sin, unable to ultimately conquer it even though he wills it. I will not deny God's sovereignty, God's omnipotence. Neither will I deny hell. The only way to reconcile these two is two correctly translate Aionios as an age, one of finite duration, a meaning which is definitely valid for the word and which is definitely used in certain Bible passages.

And then Lyric's Dad comes out of the pretense of not knowing the promotion of Universal Reconciliation, a false doctrine that he buys into, with the following response to bbas 64:

Where were we debating UR? I thought we were discussing the fallacy of TULIP and the limited atonement lie?

 

[Merry Menagerie]

Where does the parable about the wheat and the tares fit into tall this? The wheat belong to God and the tares belong to Satan. Wouldn't the atonment be limited to those who are the wheat?

 

[farley]

bbas 64,

Greetings, sorry to be butting heads with you again. But, you stated...

I think John 1 is clear and needs no clarification as is Jn6.

I'm thinking that you feel that the above passages, John 1:10-13 and John 6:39-40, must support Calvinism.

I don't claim to understand every facet of Calvinism, but I see these passages conflicting with Calvin's predestination. I see predestination as meaning that no matter what actions one may take, their fate is sealed.

How can this be compatible with passages such as "...as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name..."?

In Christ,

farley