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[_ Old Earth _] 6000 Year-Old Earth a Scriptural Concept?

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3 And God said, "Let there be light," and there was light. 4 God saw that the light was good, and He separated the light from the darkness. 5 God called the light "day," and the darkness he called "night." And there was evening, and there was morningâ€â€the first day.

the first light generated by god war formless, there is no reference here to stars. The light generated was for the purpose of daytime, once daytime ended there was only darkness, no stars.

and

6 And God said, "Let there be an expanse between the waters to separate water from water." 7 So God made the expanse and separated the water under the expanse from the water above it. And it was so. 8 God called the expanse "sky." And there was evening, and there was morningâ€â€the second day.

this has nothing to do with starlight but I needed something to collaborate with to make my point. In the creation versus god says "Let there be" and then makes it. It is not made as soon has he thinks it. There is a mental component, followed by a creative component

look again and see

14 And God said, "Let there be lights in the expanse of the sky to separate the day from the night, and let them serve as signs to mark seasons and days and years, 15 and let them be lights in the expanse of the sky to give light on the earth." And it was so. 16 God made two great lightsâ€â€the greater light to govern the day and the lesser light to govern the night. He also made the stars. 17 God set them in the expanse of the sky to give light on the earth, 18 to govern the day and the night, and to separate light from darkness. And God saw that it was good. 19 And there was evening, and there was morningâ€â€the fourth day.

*thought portion of creation italizied to stress the two part creation technique
 
So exactly what did I get wrong Biblically. The Bible clearly says GOD made space and matter. Then GOD made light and later GOD made the stars and the sun. I have not added anything to the biblical account and I have taken it rather literally. PS >>> One may not have an actual evening and a morning without the sun, moon and stars; however, one may have any specific space of time one chooses without them---further indication that each day was approximatly one day (and that is Biblical) . I really wish you would not put on airs. It is not very polite.
 
I agree that it makes sense that you have to have the sun in order to have light but the bible is very clear in saying that light was created on day 1 and on day 3 the sun, moon and stars were created.

the only thing I was taking you to task on was claiming that god instantly stretched light from the stars to earth. That, imo, is not biblically supported

I will also now take to to task on claiming the bible says in the begining god created space and matter. He created Heaven and Earth. Matter would encompass all manner of stars, space rock, commet and asteroid. The bible does not say that.

and you are agian connecting dots where no dots were connected. your idea prooves nothing beyond your personal belief and is based on not what the bible says but rather what it fails to say.
 
the single week creation concept also fails to address

How long God choose to take in creating the heavens and the earth in Gen 1:1

how much time passed before Gen 1:3

the original speed of rotation of the sun (the suns rotation is not constant)

god makes space before "YOM" 1 but does not place stars in the "heavens" until "YOM" 3

in closing the concept of a 6000 year old earth and a 6X24hr total creation cycle is not given, or suggested outright in the bible. The 6000 year old concept is a creation of man

just as the scientific conclusions were generated by man

the difference, and why IMO the 4.5 year estimate is much more reliable, is that the former is a creation of man's reason and the later is based on the research and study of God's creation the earth.

I'm done, again, for now
 
Silverchild79 said:
I agree that it makes sense that you have to have the sun in order to have light but the bible is very clear in saying that light was created on day 1 and on day 3 the sun, moon and stars were created.

the only thing I was taking you to task on was claiming that god instantly stretched light from the stars to earth. That, imo, is not biblically supported

I will also now take to to task on claiming the bible says in the begining god created space and matter. He created Heaven and Earth. Matter would encompass all manner of stars, space rock, commet and asteroid. The bible does not say that.

and you are agian connecting dots where no dots were connected. your idea prooves nothing beyond your personal belief and is based on not what the bible says but rather what it fails to say.
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The Bible clearly says that GOD created everything and without HIM nothing would exist which exists. Everything includes space, matter, time. I cannot limit everything to only those things which seem logical to secular scientists.
Heaven includes space. Earth includes matter. I never suggested HE did it all at once, but the concept is totally within keeping with the biblical epic.
 
Silverchild79 said:
the single week creation concept also fails to address

How long God choose to take in creating the heavens and the earth in Gen 1:1

how much time passed before Gen 1:3

the original speed of rotation of the sun (the suns rotation is not constant)

god makes space before "YOM" 1 but does not place stars in the "heavens" until "YOM" 3

in closing the concept of a 6000 year old earth and a 6X24hr total creation cycle is not given, or suggested outright in the bible. The 6000 year old concept is a creation of man

just as the scientific conclusions were generated by man

the difference, and why IMO the 4.5 year estimate is much more reliable, is that the former is a creation of man's reason and the later is based on the research and study of God's creation the earth.

I'm done, again, for now
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The 2 billion year old plus age is not even Biblical. It is needed to support the remotest concept of evolution....
 
The Barbarian said:
So is DNA.

There are many things that are true that are not Biblical.
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There is NOTHING that is in the Bible, which is presented as a fact which is untrue nor that which is shown as an error which is not false.
 
Barbarian observes:
There are many things that are true that are not Biblical.

There is NOTHING that is in the Bible, which is presented as a fact which is untrue nor that which is shown as an error which is not false.
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If taken literally, there are many such things. But that aside, there are many things that are true, that are not Biblical.

Protons, for example. Evolution. Nuclear fusion.
 
The Barbarian said:
Barbarian observes:
There are many things that are true that are not Biblical.



If taken literally, there are many such things. But that aside, there are many things that are true, that are not Biblical.

Protons, for example. Evolution. Nuclear fusion.
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The Bible does not present all facts. The facts the Bible presents as fact, are indeed factual.
 
The Barbarian said:
The Bible doesn't indicate any limits to variation by evolution.
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The Bible says that kinds brought forth after their OWN kind and not a new kind or a different kind or a change toward additional kinds. The Biblical fact is that MAN was not the offspring or offshoot from some other kind. MAN was and is a separate creation.
 
Packrat said:
Points I should make before the discussion begins:

1. They did not use the Gregorian Calendar so many thousands of years ago.
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Not really relevant.
Having seasons to divide each year is all that is needed to determine how long a year might be.

3. Nowhere in the Bible does it say that the world is 6000 years old.
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Nowhere in the bible does it say 'God is a trinity' either....do you reject that as well ?

We have a complete geneology presented in scriptures from Adam to Christ.
Adam being created during the creation week pretty much shows some timeline.

Adam was created on day 6. If days were any longer than one single earth rotation day, then Adam would be far older than scripture shows and thus scripture falsely represents his age.



4. There seem to be gaps in the genealogies and possible translation errors with regard to 'son of' and 'father of', etc.
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Ill check thru the thread to see if you actually present FACT to back this assertion, but my guess is that it cannot be shown as factual but simply is yet another way to disregard what scripture DOES present clearly.

5. It is my opinion that you are forced to guess at the passage of time between some births and deaths (I may be wrong, but otherwise it becomes a bit difficult to accurately depict the passage of time).
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Then you havent spent much time in the bible on the matter.
There are some very detailed charts showing exactly, almost to the year based on scriptural reference, when men were born and when they died.
I would suggest looking at some of those before you proceed too much further.


6. Empirical data, while possibly in error, tells us that the world is far older.
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Um, no....your interpretation of that data tells you the earth is far older.
There were no sticky notes on the evidence telling how old it actually was when it was dug up.

Your thoughts, arguments, and perspectives?
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My thoughts after spending a lot of time on the topic before was that science cant actually prove what they assert anymore than we can actually refute it...and vice versa.
Its ALL hypothesis and based on personal interpretation of the scientific data available.

The only issue I found to be any issue at all was the starlight problem.
That one bothered me for a time until I realized that I dont know HOW God set things into motion, and science, as far as I have understood it, has actually slowed light down in lab tests and if THEY can do that then surely the God who created it all could speed it up if He wanted to.
http://www.hno.harvard.edu/gazette/1999 ... light.html

:)
 
The Barbarian said:
The Bible doesn't indicate any limits to variation by evolution.
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"kinds" were originally created.
Due to the fall mutation has set in (not 'good' as it once was) and creation is basically falling apart.
Add that to 'survival of the fittest', natural selection as it were, and its only natural that with the God given ability of living creatures to adapt that change would come about.

This in no way proves evolution over millions of years or common decent as is taught by evolution "theory".
 
Silverchild79 said:
That being said

"YOM", in hebrew is the word that was translated into "Day" in the book of Genesis. YOM, in it's original form really only means "Period of time" it's undefined. That's why the bible tells us that a Day is a period of light, a 24 hour day, a week, or even a thousand years.

The earth was made in six "YOM"S, that could mean 72hrs to 4 billion years. Once you know that it's easy to see how the scientific discovery of the last 150years actually does fall in line with the book of Genesis.
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Im sorry, but this isnt exactly accurate.

Yom ALONE without qualifiers can mean any period of time..an 'age'.
Yom WITH qualifiers such as 'an evening and a morning the FIRST day' DOES mean a literal, single earth rotation day.

Its bad enough that 'first', 'second', etc are ignored, but I personally cannot understand the christian mind that will WILLFULLY deny 'evening and a morning' at the end of EACH and every day of that week.
I mean, come on people, what do we need, to be hit in the head with a 2x4 to get the clear intent of that each day?

Scripture has a knack of repeating phrases, especially in the OT Hebrew, but even in the greek rendering of Jesus' words we see Him repeating phrases as well.
Gods word does this when it is drawing attention, trying to make it known that the point is quite important.

Isnt it odd that at the end of EACH day that 'an evening and a morning, the ........day" is used *IF* these were not an 'evening and a morning' ?

Its almost like God *IS* making sure that those who reject it have NO excuse and on that day when they stand and give an account for not accepting what His word says.

I honestly believe that an 'evening and a morning' are there for a test of sorts for us...and evidence against us if we reject.
Of course that is only my opinion, but one thing IS for sure...the phrase WAS repeated over and over for a reason.
 
And that might be more feasible to me if God had started by creating the sun and the moon first before he used the illustration of evening and morning instead of in Genesis 1:16. If there were no sun and no moon, then how can evening and morning describe the passage of daylight which we rely upon to tell us when our days are ended and when they begin? It seems to me that evening and morning refer to something different than our conventional dusk and dawn. Without the waxing and waning of light brought by the moon and the sun, evening and morning could be used to describe any length of time.
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Quite easily explained.
Look at Revelation

Rev 22:5 And there will be no night there. And they need no lamp, or light of the sun; for the Lord God gives them light. And they will reign forever and ever.

Do we think God so impotent that He could not have done exactly the same during those days BEFORE the creation of the sun?
Just as it will be then, God Himself was the lightsource before He put the sun and moon into the sky.
 
But that's not what God said, is it? We don't get to adjust the Word of God to make it more acceptable.

So,(for example) if God says living things were created according to their kind (not kinds), we cannot "adjust" Scripture to change it to "kinds."

This is how false doctrine is established.
 
I've worked out by using the genealogies, to something like 7,000 years, give or take a few hundred. But does that count for Adams time in the Garden, before he sinned. That time was countless, because no time was marked before sin.

Science arrives at their conclusions, by disbelief in anything else. They form a theory, they can't prove either, its all according to what they want it to be. But I certainly know no Alien made me, or a lightning bolt didn't strike a mud-puddle, or some comet didn't dump a bunch of star-dust that started life. These are all the absurd creations, of atheistic science.

I know God is real, why! because he gave me the faith to believe it. That's something science can't believe, because they have no faith. So nether! do I have any faith in their 100,000,000,000 year old earth theory.
 
Samuel, are you for real?

You probably don't realise just how many strawmen you popped up in your 3 paragraphs.
 
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