[_ Old Earth _] 6000 Year-Old Earth a Scriptural Concept?

[LittleNipper]

In my opinion, considering that the world is not 6,000 years old is not the heresy as nowhere in the Bible does it say that the world is 6,000 years old. I've been wondering lately about the 50-year period in Hebraic festival. Where you would have six years and then a sabbath year to make for a period of seven years. Then you would do that cycle seven times to make for a total of 49 years. After those 49 years, there would be a year of Jubilee which would be the 50th year. I believe that such ceremonies - just like sacrifice - are, at least in part, prophetic. What are they prophetic or revealing about? Where did the doctrine for Christ's 1000-year reign come from? Could it be linked to the year of jubilee? And if so, is the age of humanity close to 49,000 years old and the Earth older yet?

Anyone care to comment?

No where in the Bible does GOD suggest that man originated with an ape. Try reading the book of Revelations for the 1000 year reign.

 

[Packrat]

No where in the Bible does GOD suggest that man originated with an ape. Try reading the book of Revelations for the 1000 year reign.

And nowhere in my post do I suggest that man originated with an ape. :wink: Any further thoughts?

PS. I may look into that revelation thing. I hadn't done any research before I posted the above 50-year/50,000-year concept of human civilization; it was just something I was playing with in my mind because of the supposed 7-day/7,000-year timeline.

 

[Silverchild79]

Ah! Good to see that someone else has heard about this as well. I came across this a while back before I made this thread. So even if God created the Earth in six days and it was somehow rotating during this process, it is unlikely that its full rotation would occur in 24 hours which is one of our standard days today. And since the word 'day' in the Hebraic culture can mean a period of sunrise and sunset (if my memory proves correct - if not please correct me), that would mean that you have 6-month-long days at the poles of the Earth because the angle the Sun makes with the horizon. So where was God measuring this time when he created the world in six 'days'?

back at you, my family basically believes in an Earth that's millions of years old. My GF however came from a conservative Mennonite family. One of the most important aspects of my faith is that while I disagree with others I strive not to judge and allow them thier beliefs. That being said, it's dreadfully hard not to laugh when I hear them talk about how Dinosaurs and Unicorns are extint because Noah didn't include them in the Ark.

Infact I think that's actually mildly funnier then my Aithiest friend who said Noah's story must be fabrication becuase the Ark couldn't house all the whales. Whales, that according to her, if you believe the book of Genisis must have also been saved... from drowning... the scary thing is she wants to be a lawyer lol

 

[LittleNipper]

Try not to laugh; however, did you know that reptiles continue to grow in size throughout their entire lifespan. Is it not true that Genesis gives mans ages as being in the hundreds-----before the FLOOD? The Bible does not mention the age of any of the animals nor how long they lived. Now, wipe that smile off your face and begin by thinking a little more outside the evolutionary box you have been trained to accept without any reason on your part.

 

[Silverchild79]

Try not to laugh; however, did you know that reptiles continue to grow in size throughout their entire lifespan. Is it not true that Genesis gives mans ages as being in the hundreds-----before the FLOOD? The Bible does not mention the age of any of the animals nor how long they lived. Now, wipe that smile off your face and begin by thinking a little more outside the evolutionary box you have been trained to accept without any reason on your part.

I'm not smiling, you may wish to reconsider your hostility.

I was raised creation, still am of a creation opinion. The variance in reptile size by lifespan theory is unplausible as it concerns earth age. What about the dating of bones or the lack of Dino historical accounts in ancient history or a thousand other things? Fact is while the old earth theory cannot be proven the young earth theory is even worse for lack of actual evidence. I would think a 30 foot tall carnivorous lizard would at least catch someones eye. And unicorns? While it's a nice attempt and building a bridge to your predetermined conclusion it fails the litmus test of reality.

 

[LittleNipper]

I'm not smiling, you may wish to reconsider your hostility.

I was raised creation, still am of a creation opinion. The variance in reptile size by lifespan theory is unplausible as it concerns earth age. What about the dating of bones or the lack of Dino historical accounts in ancient history or a thousand other things? Fact is while the old earth theory cannot be proven the young earth theory is even worse for lack of actual evidence. I would think a 30 foot tall carnivorous lizard would at least catch someones eye. And unicorns? While it's a nice attempt and building a bridge to your predetermined conclusion it fails the litmus test of reality.

The dating of ancient fossils relies heavily on two things.
1) What strata the fossil was found in...
2) What is the radioactive age of the minerals, sediment, and rock which CONTAINS, SURROUNDS, or IMPREGNATES the fossils in question...

The term dinosaur is a modern invention. You will find that reports, and tales of dragons, belhemoths, and leviathans are quite prevalent in ancient history. There is some consideration for goats which have been manipulated to have one horn. I have no hostility, only pity for those who have faith in only what men may perceive, conclude, and concoct ----- but GOD has not revealed it to them.

 

[Silverchild79]

there were also ancient reports of sailors discovering the end of the earth and fire breathing sea monsters but those stories didn't exactly pan out either

the scrutiny as I understand it over radiometric data refers to the older (now called generic) version of radiometric dating. The accepted method now is the Isochron method which is a far better method. And while it doesn't work 100% of the time the fact is the VAST majority of the findings point to an earth that is 4.5 billion years old, the collaborating evidence astonishing

we will never learn the entirety of our creation from a scientific standpoint, but that doesn't mean we shouldn't try to understand whatever we can. This earth is God's gift to us and we should not be ignorant of it.

I will say one thing though, you actually speak intelligently on the subject, but I disagree with you and I feel that what we as humans have been able to determine is on my side of the issue.

 

[blunthitta4life]

Not to mention that astronomy puts the universe at roughly 14 billion years old. The evidence for a young earth just isn't there[/quote]

 

[LittleNipper]

Not to mention that astronomy puts the universe at roughly 14 billion years old. The evidence for a young earth just isn't there

[/quote]

Well, not all the so called "missing links" turned out to be true either. And GOD says that HE stretched out the stars in the heaven. What does that mean?

 

[Silverchild79]

Well, not all the so called "missing links" turned out to be true either. And GOD says that HE stretched out the stars in the heaven. What does that mean?

? missing links? That's the second attack on evolution you've made

the evolution and old earth theories, while usually grouped together, are in fact very separate of each other. From what's I've seen nobodies brought up evolution in this thread, this is strictly and age of earth thread. Evolution is a WAY shakier theory then old earth, there's isn't 5% of the proof of Evolution that exists for Old Earth IMO.

I came upon my old earth belief by researching both sides scientific arguments and then deciding for myself. My girlfriend several times has taken me to task on reading "non christian sources" but to be honest the majority of christian sources on this subject start with where we are now and a predetermined conclusion. Then attempt to bridge the two.

I prefer an approach that advances theories and conclusions after research, not before

 

[LittleNipper]

? missing links? That's the second attack on evolution you've made

the evolution and old earth theories, while usually grouped together, are in fact very separate of each other. From what's I've seen nobodies brought up evolution in this thread, this is strictly and age of earth thread. Evolution is a WAY shakier theory then old earth, there's isn't 5% of the proof of Evolution that exists for Old Earth IMO.

I came upon my old earth belief by researching both sides scientific arguments and then deciding for myself. My girlfriend several times has taken me to task on reading "non christian sources" but to be honest the majority of christian sources on this subject start with where we are now and a predetermined conclusion. Then attempt to bridge the two.

I prefer an approach that advances theories and conclusions after research, not before

I've made more than 2 attacks against the common ancestory of all living things theory of evolution... As for old earth, how mature was Adam when GOD created him? Answer me that... Did that make Adam that age or just the appearence of said maturity...?

 

[Silverchild79]

I'm not exactly sure what that has to do with the price of tea in China and I feel as though you're dancing around the data of this issue by attempting to cloud it with the very sperate issue of Evolution. That being said...

Adam was created by god at the end of the sixth "YOM" in the old testament. His age at creation is not listed but I think it can be reasonably assumed that he was at least a Young Adult.

That being said

"YOM", in hebrew is the word that was translated into "Day" in the book of Genesis. YOM, in it's original form really only means "Period of time" it's undefined. That's why the bible tells us that a Day is a period of light, a 24 hour day, a week, or even a thousand years.

The earth was made in six "YOM"S, that could mean 72hrs to 4 billion years. Once you know that it's easy to see how the scientific discovery of the last 150years actually does fall in line with the book of Genesis.

 

[LittleNipper]

I'm not exactly sure what that has to do with the price of tea in China and I feel as though you're dancing around the data of this issue by attempting to cloud it with the very sperate issue of Evolution. That being said...

Adam was created by GOD at the end of the sixth "YOM" in the old testament. His age at creation is not listed but I think it can be reasonably assumed that he was at least a Young Adult.

That being said

"YOM", in hebrew is the word that was translated into "Day" in the book of Genesis. YOM, in it's original form really only means "Period of time" it's undefined. That's why the bible tells us that a Day is a period of light, a 24 hour day, a week, or even a thousand years.

The earth was made in six "YOM"S, that could mean 72hrs to 4 billion years. Once you know that it's easy to see how the scientific discovery of the last 150years actually does fall in line with the book of Genesis.

In and throughout the Bible, YOM NEVER means more then a 24 hour period if the qualifiers "and the evening and the morning" are used.

Now if Adam was created with the appearance of some age and yet be but moments old, why would you imagine GOD would create an immature ecological system? I know I would not (and I'm not GOD). I say that because I love trains, and have built numerous layouts. They always look like they are mature environments. The trees come right out of the box fully grown.... My mountains might fool a photographer. :D

 

[Silverchild79]

In and throughout the Bible, YOM NEVER means more then a 24 hour period if the qualifiers "and the evening and the morning" are used.

Now if Adam was created with the appearance of some age and yet be but moments old, why would you imagine GOD would create an immature ecological system? I know I would not (and I'm not GOD). I say that because I love trains, and have built numerous layouts. They always look like they are mature environments. The trees come right out of the box fully grown.... My mountains might fool a photographer. :D

SIGH

Firstly

2 Peter 3:8

8But do not forget this one thing, dear friends: With the Lord a day (YOM) is like a thousand years, and a thousand years are like a day (YOM).

when referring to daylight and sundown please remember it is proven fact, not theory that the Earth rotation is variable

there are stars way past the 100 thousand light year mark which are visable from earth. Light travels fastest in a vacuum (space). Meaning if a star 100,000 light years away appeared tomorrow, it would take roughly 100,000 years before we would be able to see it. Yet we can see the light from these stars, what conclusions can de drawn from that?

lastly, Adam was PROBABLY (there is no actual evidence to suggest his age at creation both of our speculations are merely that) an adult when created. This is Because man survives on his rational thought where as the world at large survives on Nature and instinct.

You can drop a Molten globe of earth i the middle of space and it will eventually form into whatever it was made to become

you drop an infant alone in the middle of a Forrest and it starves to death.

anything else?

 

[LittleNipper]

SIGH

Firstly

2 Peter 3:8

8But do not forget this one thing, dear friends: With the Lord a day (YOM) is like a thousand years, and a thousand years are like a day (YOM).

when referring to daylight and sundown please remember it is proven fact, not theory that the Earth rotation is variable

there are stars way past the 100 thousand light year mark which are visable from earth. Light travels fastest in a vacuum (space). Meaning if a star 100,000 light years away appeared tomorrow, it would take roughly 100,000 years before we would be able to see it. Yet we can see the light from these stars, what conclusions can de drawn from that?

lastly, Adam was PROBABLY (there is no actual evidence to suggest his age at creation both of our speculations are merely that) an adult when created. This is Because man survives on his rational thought where as the world at large survives on Nature and instinct.

You can drop a Molten globe of earth i the middle of space and it will eventually form into whatever it was made to become

you drop an infant alone in the middle of a Forrest and it starves to death.

anything else?

Adam walked with GOD Genesis 3:8. I'm sure GOD could handle a baby if that was HIS wish....
You forgot II Peter 3:9. GOD is speaking of HIS promises & HIS longsuffering.
He wraps himself in light as with a garment; he stretches out the heavens like a tent and lays the beams of his upper chambers on their waters. He makes the clouds his chariot and rides on the wings of the wind. - Psalms 104:2-3 If GOD did indeed stretch out the heavens. HE also stretched out the light.....

 

[Silverchild79]

unfortunately the bible does not say he stretched the light. Does not say he nursed Adam into adulthood, or anything else you've implied. Look at the earth in the last 2000 years, God has a history of letting nature run it's course more often then not

I'm sorry but there is no real argument Biblical, Scientific or otherwise that supports your claims

What I have said is backed by over 100 years of honest research and still falls within reasonable interpretations of the bible without having to fill in uncountable blanks

in short you speak in circles and whenever you find a gap in your logic you put words in the Bible's mouth so far as I can tell.

Is it really to hard to ask you to look past the ignorance of the past an accept an idea that can stand evenly on the legs of scripture and science?

 

[LittleNipper]

unfortunately the bible does not say he stretched the light. Does not say he nursed Adam into adulthood, or anything else you've implied. Look at the earth in the last 2000 years, God has a history of letting nature run it's course more often then not

I'm sorry but there is no real argument Biblical, Scientific or otherwise that supports your claims

What I have said is backed by over 100 years of honest research and still falls within reasonable interpretations of the bible without having to fill in uncountable blanks

in short you speak in circles and whenever you find a gap in your logic you put words in the Bible's mouth so far as I can tell.

Is it really to hard to ask you to look past the ignorance of the past an accept an idea that can stand evenly on the legs of scripture and science?

The Bible says stretched out the heavens and wrapped HIMSELF in light. I place no eternal value on the research of men. They have been wrong again and again left to their own devices. Please read Joshua Chapter 9 as a prime example ----- What did the children of Israel forget to do? It is obvious to me. It is exactly what most researchers fail to do today.... It can have very serious consequences.

 

[Silverchild79]

unfortunately the conclusion you draw from what you've read only works when you don't actually think about it.

If light was automatically drawn from a star 100,000 light years away to earth then the first 100,000 years of light display from that star would be little more then a fabricated light show and doesn't actually show the star at all.

Either one of our theories are exactly that, theories. Nobody this side of grace will ever know everything there is to know about creation. But what we've learned in the last 150+ years does tell us SOMETHING.

Anyone who was to believe as you must blindfold themselves to countless discoveries which were independently unveiled and collaborative of each other. And when we blindfold ourselves the only way we find the right path is on accident.

In closing the Old Earth Theory is more proven than it is not and answers more questions then it generates. Lastly it is supported by scripture.

should you have any further information to add PM me and well continue this. But as this is largely a one sided debate I lost my use for it

God bless

 

[LittleNipper]

unfortunately the conclusion you draw from what you've read only works when you don't actually think about it.

If light was automatically drawn from a star 100,000 light years away to earth then the first 100,000 years of light display from that star would be little more then a fabricated light show and doesn't actually show the star at all.

Either one of our theories are exactly that, theories. Nobody this side of grace will ever know everything there is to know about creation. But what we've learned in the last 150+ years does tell us SOMETHING.

Anyone who was to believe as you must blindfold themselves to countless discoveries which were independently unveiled and collaborative of each other. And when we blindfold ourselves the only way we find the right path is on accident.

In closing the Old Earth Theory is more proven than it is not and answers more questions then it generates. Lastly it is supported by scripture.

should you have any further information to add PM me and well continue this. But as this is largely a one sided debate I lost my use for it

God bless

What I do know is that the LIGHT of the world is JESUS and not the theories of dreamers..! My GOD created light before HE created a source----there must have been a godly reason and perhaps a practical one as well.

 

[Silverchild79]

My GOD created light before HE created a source----there must have been a godly reason and perhaps a practical one as well.

well I'm sorry the your findings are neither scientific nor biblical

NIV

14 And God said, "Let there be lights in the expanse of the sky to separate the day from the night, and let them serve as signs to mark seasons and days and years, 15 and let them be lights in the expanse of the sky to give light on the earth." And it was so. 16 God made two great lightsâ€â€the greater light to govern the day and the lesser light to govern the night. He also made the stars. 17 God set them in the expanse of the sky to give light on the earth, 18 to govern the day and the night, and to separate light from darkness. And God saw that it was good. 19 And there was evening, and there was morningâ€â€the fourth day.

or if you prefer something a bit more old school

14And God said, Let there be lights in the firmament of the heaven to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs, and for seasons, and for days, and years:

15And let them be for lights in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth: and it was so.

16And God made two great lights; the greater light to rule the day, and the lesser light to rule the night: he made the stars also.

17And God set them in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth,

18And to rule over the day and over the night, and to divide the light from the darkness: and God saw that it was good.

19And the evening and the morning were the fourth day.


Either way the only thing the bible says on the stars is that they shall be placed in the heavens for the benefit of man. There is no reference no immediate illumination and recognition from earth. While I thought I was finished with this debate I must take you to task on your misrepresentation.
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