7th Day Adventist
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Desire to be a vessel of honor unto the Lord Jesus Christ?
Join For His Glory for a discussion on how
https://christianforums.net/threads/a-vessel-of-honor.110278/
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Taking the time to pray? Christ is the answer in times of need
https://christianforums.net/threads/psalm-70-1-save-me-o-god-lord-help-me-now.108509/
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Brother Mike
Guest
[quote="By Grace, post: 852895, member: 3163"
Therefore without any hint of anger or pique, I submit that you really do not know enough about the SDAs to make that sort of statement as you did in your post
[/quote]
I have studied what they believe, what I am trying to figure out is why I really care and why would I judge or put down what they believe?
Know what bugs me? The serious doubt and unbelief in almost all churches today. Without faith you can't even please God and churches are full of unbelief. Even the so called faith churches are on TV pulling for money or else they shut down they tell us. They have faith in people, or God? You never pull on people to pay the bills, you ask God. You walk into a Baptist or Methodist church then just forget it, God is mysterious and nobody knows a thing about what God just might do. It's sad really that someone calls themselves a Pastor and does not even know God's will about healing.
SDA got Jesus right, at least they know that. Muslims don't even know that, and Mormons wrote a whole other book they follow saying Jesus is some angel or something, the half brother of Satan, whatever.................
If everyone just had faith and obeyed the Word!!!
Whites biggest problem was pride. If something she copied or something she said did not come to pass, it was someone else's fault. It could not have possibly have been God never said what she claimed God said.
I hear God, but I am just a human and can be wrong. More often than not, I have heard the Lord. However, I have heard God and my mind filled in some blanks getting me off track. If I missed it, then I am the first to say to anyone that I must not have heard the Lord this time or I added my own stuff to it. Nobody ever told White that this was how it works, she claims everything must be from God and that was her biggest problem. She removed any possibly way God could have used her.
Even Peter said...... "I perceive"............ he did hear the Holy Spirit, but did not come out and say "Thus saith the Lord." He stayed humble and did not want to mislead anyone.
We might not like the way people do things, but what SDA does, does not effect anyone. It just effects those that follow the SDA, and my experience is that they choose to believe all of it and no point in trying to get them to see different.
People are attracted to things they want to believe, right or wrong.
I don't find the SDA any more goofy than a Methodist, Baptist, Word of Faith, Pentecostal, Nazarene, Apostolic, whatever. They all have helped people and they all come up with some goofy stuff.
You ever Notice the Lord uses the goofy and way out there people to do work?
Us folks that know everything, and have it all perfect don't get used that much. Wonder why? Could be we are to busy pointing out where everyone else is off course.
Mike.
Therefore without any hint of anger or pique, I submit that you really do not know enough about the SDAs to make that sort of statement as you did in your post
[/quote]
I have studied what they believe, what I am trying to figure out is why I really care and why would I judge or put down what they believe?
Know what bugs me? The serious doubt and unbelief in almost all churches today. Without faith you can't even please God and churches are full of unbelief. Even the so called faith churches are on TV pulling for money or else they shut down they tell us. They have faith in people, or God? You never pull on people to pay the bills, you ask God. You walk into a Baptist or Methodist church then just forget it, God is mysterious and nobody knows a thing about what God just might do. It's sad really that someone calls themselves a Pastor and does not even know God's will about healing.
SDA got Jesus right, at least they know that. Muslims don't even know that, and Mormons wrote a whole other book they follow saying Jesus is some angel or something, the half brother of Satan, whatever.................
If everyone just had faith and obeyed the Word!!!
Whites biggest problem was pride. If something she copied or something she said did not come to pass, it was someone else's fault. It could not have possibly have been God never said what she claimed God said.
I hear God, but I am just a human and can be wrong. More often than not, I have heard the Lord. However, I have heard God and my mind filled in some blanks getting me off track. If I missed it, then I am the first to say to anyone that I must not have heard the Lord this time or I added my own stuff to it. Nobody ever told White that this was how it works, she claims everything must be from God and that was her biggest problem. She removed any possibly way God could have used her.
Even Peter said...... "I perceive"............ he did hear the Holy Spirit, but did not come out and say "Thus saith the Lord." He stayed humble and did not want to mislead anyone.
We might not like the way people do things, but what SDA does, does not effect anyone. It just effects those that follow the SDA, and my experience is that they choose to believe all of it and no point in trying to get them to see different.
People are attracted to things they want to believe, right or wrong.
I don't find the SDA any more goofy than a Methodist, Baptist, Word of Faith, Pentecostal, Nazarene, Apostolic, whatever. They all have helped people and they all come up with some goofy stuff.
You ever Notice the Lord uses the goofy and way out there people to do work?
Us folks that know everything, and have it all perfect don't get used that much. Wonder why? Could be we are to busy pointing out where everyone else is off course.
Mike.
I have studied what they believe, what I am trying to figure out is why I really care and why would I judge or put down what they believe? [/quote]
Can you imagine anything like what you posted in your own OP in a Bible-believing church
I sort of felt chased away.
They were pushing Ellen White books on me and telling me I should be giving 20% of my income to the church.
And this was on my one and only visit.
No indeed they haven't!
Can you not see the difference here between every other Evangelical church?.
If you are unable to see the heresies, which I enumerated...
... then you will never see them. What is most frustrating in this case is that instead of looking at any of those heretical doctrines, which they hold dear, you are making statements that are not supported by the facts. Instead they are based on your feelings, and are indeed contrary to your OP.
If you want to discuss their heresies, then I will respond, But if you want to post things that are contradictory to your OP, and what you experienced, relying on your contradictory feelings, then there is no rational basis for discussion. .
Lets please be careful keeping in mind the this passage :
Mat_7:3 And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother's eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye?
Mat_7:4 Or how wilt thou say to thy brother, Let me pull out the mote out of thine eye; and, behold, a beam is in thine own eye?
Mat_7:5 Thou hypocrite, first cast out the beam out of thine own eye; and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy brother's eye.
Asking ourselves are we the same in our beliefs now as in yesteryear?
Please find the line between bashing and discussion. Moderator
Mat_7:3 And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother's eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye?
Mat_7:4 Or how wilt thou say to thy brother, Let me pull out the mote out of thine eye; and, behold, a beam is in thine own eye?
Mat_7:5 Thou hypocrite, first cast out the beam out of thine own eye; and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy brother's eye.
Asking ourselves are we the same in our beliefs now as in yesteryear?
Please find the line between bashing and discussion. Moderator
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Brother Mike
Guest
By Grace:
Well, you don't keep your worth of 14 billion dollars without some sort of economic plan. In this case asking for 20% of your total income. You said it was your first and only visit so I assume you were not very impressed with what they believed or how they operated. Others seem to believe in it and that is why the Church has a good sized bank roll.
However, they have many wonderful programs to help people with drugs, they have the oldest stop smoking program being one of the first to see a issue with that. They help many people who can't afford food and medical expenses.
It's estimated that over 2 billion a year come in from tithes and other things so a whole lot of money is going back out to people that need help. This don't sound like people who are against Jesus.
We have a food pantry here run by Catholics. I am not into the Hail Mary thing unless I am watching football, but it's a wonderful operation that feeds a whole bunch of people. I even have sown more than once into their program and my Church sows into it. Just because they are confused does not mean we can't be a part and help if the Lord directs us.
I don't see your issue with SDA, you went, you never came back, what is the issue? I worked with an Apostolic Pastor for a bit. No jewelry, women wear long dresses and if you don't speak in tongues your not saved. Men could not even wear a wedding ring, and though I spoke in tongues very clearly and in the open, I was told I was not fully saved because I got baptized in the name of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit. You need to be Baptized in the name of Jesus or the deal is off.
I still was able to work with him though, because I don't judge and let it go in one ear and out the other.
I think you just need to grow up some and learn not to be so critical. That comes with spiritual maturity, and allowing God to keep showing just how much love God is.
Mike.
Well, you don't keep your worth of 14 billion dollars without some sort of economic plan. In this case asking for 20% of your total income. You said it was your first and only visit so I assume you were not very impressed with what they believed or how they operated. Others seem to believe in it and that is why the Church has a good sized bank roll.
However, they have many wonderful programs to help people with drugs, they have the oldest stop smoking program being one of the first to see a issue with that. They help many people who can't afford food and medical expenses.
It's estimated that over 2 billion a year come in from tithes and other things so a whole lot of money is going back out to people that need help. This don't sound like people who are against Jesus.
We have a food pantry here run by Catholics. I am not into the Hail Mary thing unless I am watching football, but it's a wonderful operation that feeds a whole bunch of people. I even have sown more than once into their program and my Church sows into it. Just because they are confused does not mean we can't be a part and help if the Lord directs us.
I don't see your issue with SDA, you went, you never came back, what is the issue? I worked with an Apostolic Pastor for a bit. No jewelry, women wear long dresses and if you don't speak in tongues your not saved. Men could not even wear a wedding ring, and though I spoke in tongues very clearly and in the open, I was told I was not fully saved because I got baptized in the name of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit. You need to be Baptized in the name of Jesus or the deal is off.
I still was able to work with him though, because I don't judge and let it go in one ear and out the other.
I think you just need to grow up some and learn not to be so critical. That comes with spiritual maturity, and allowing God to keep showing just how much love God is.
Mike.
Here is a small explanation of some of the heretical beliefs:
Salvation is an "experience"
Led by the Holy Spirit we sense our need, acknowledge our sinfulness, repent of our transgressions, and exercise faith in Jesus as Lord and Christ, as Substitute and Example...
Abiding in Him we become partakers of the divine nature and have the assurance of salvation now and in the judgment
But the word "savior" is not included in that entire Fundamental belief it is ALL pf works, nothing of grace
Abiding in Him we become partakers of the divine nature and have the assurance of salvation now and in the judgment
But the word "savior" is not included in that entire Fundamental belief it is ALL pf works, nothing of grace
Veneration of Ellen White and ALL of her writings (through which they make the Bible secondary)
18. The Gift of Prophecy:
One of the gifts of the Holy Spirit is prophecy. This gift is an identifying mark of the remnant church and was manifested in the ministry of Ellen. G. White . As the Lord's messenger, her writings are a continuing and authoritative source of truth which provide for the church comfort, guidance, instruction, and correction.
One of the gifts of the Holy Spirit is prophecy. This gift is an identifying mark of the remnant church and was manifested in the ministry of Ellen. G. White . As the Lord's messenger, her writings are a continuing and authoritative source of truth which provide for the church comfort, guidance, instruction, and correction.
You cannot miss the parallel to 2 Timothy 3:16 at the end of that statement. Then as an afterthought, they add this at the end : They also make clear that the Bible is the standard by which all teaching and experience must be tested. However by tacking that on the end, instead of making ir primary, they make Ellen first
the Investigative Judgment,Jesus Christ will judge people on how well they kept Ellen's rules
The Remnant church
"The universal church is composed of all who truly believe in Christ, but in the last days, a time of widespread apostasy, a remnant has been called out to keep the commandments of God and the faith of Jesus."
They are the only church where salvation is possible, and are the only perfect church. all others are condemned
They are the only church where salvation is possible, and are the only perfect church. all others are condemned
Sanctuary,
"He was inaugurated as our great High Priest and began His intercessory ministry at the time of His ascension. In 1844, at the end of the prophetic period of 2300 days, He entered the second and last phase of His atoning ministry. It is a work of investigative judgment which is part of the ultimate disposition of all sin, typified by the cleansing of the ancient Hebrew sanctuary on the Day of Atonement."
1844 and the 2300 Days
No one born before 1844 has been saved
Sabbath observance as the "proof of salvation"
The Sabbath is God's perpetual sign of His eternal covenant between Him and His people. No way!
These are not small items Mike, and every group from the Masons to the Mormons and to the Muslims have charitable works but ALL of the SDA Fundamental Beliefs I enumerated trample the Atonement of Jesus Christ, and therein is their evil.
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Brother Mike
Guest
By Grace:
I fully understand what your saying. It's not far off from the Four Square Church who are fixated on Aimee Semple Mcpherson. One service I attended we watched a video the whole service about the Awesomeness of this women. Nothing about Jesus or the Word that day, just a video how great Aimee is. It was really hard for me to keep my mouth shut, but I did. I was there to help, not cause issues with what they believed.
I don't want to put down Aimee, they put a crippled person from birth on her stage and she prayed in front of 3,000 people and the Lord healed them. It's verified medical proof and no fraud was found in any healing services.
She was investigated by the Baptist church and the medical community for the authenticity of these healing and 6% had medical evidence of completely healed of even terminal cases and 85% were partial healed and getting stronger. 1% claimed nothing happened at all.
That is pretty awesome, Jesus said if you believe on his name you shall lay hands on the sick and they shall recover........ Recover means getting better over time. James said the prayer of faith will save the sick and God shall "Rise" them up. Once again a position of getting better and better. Of course instant healing is possible when the Holy Spirit is involved with the Gift's of healings but standing on the word which is Health to all flesh also does just fine.
So if the Baptist are trying to find fraud and can't find it when it comes to this "Word of Faith" stuff, you know God is involved.
However................................
Aimee was fearful that she could not get everyone healed. She become focused on her image instead of letting God use her and drew away from all Healing ministry despite what God had done before. She got involved with other men, a big kidnapping scandal and was found dead of a drug overdose.
How can you follow that example? Lot's of Foursquare churches believe you should.
Truth is, Foursquare Churches don't even have many healing miracles. I got kicked out of the Church because the Pastor's wife Had cancer and I told her she can be healed!!! That got me kicked out...........
What I am saying is there are lots of goofy things going in lots of churches. With Catholics I remind some that even Mary was filled with the Holy Spirit and spoke in tongues so you might as well get what she had since she is so important to your faith. I try to find something positive to help and putting down these folks or speaking against their belief's is not the best way to reach anyone.
Lot's of people come out of these goofy things if we are a light for them to find their way out. We can be that light, and not the guy in the corner point out all the bad.
If we criticize what people believe, they shut us out. We want to be let in to show them the way out.
Mike.
I fully understand what your saying. It's not far off from the Four Square Church who are fixated on Aimee Semple Mcpherson. One service I attended we watched a video the whole service about the Awesomeness of this women. Nothing about Jesus or the Word that day, just a video how great Aimee is. It was really hard for me to keep my mouth shut, but I did. I was there to help, not cause issues with what they believed.
I don't want to put down Aimee, they put a crippled person from birth on her stage and she prayed in front of 3,000 people and the Lord healed them. It's verified medical proof and no fraud was found in any healing services.
She was investigated by the Baptist church and the medical community for the authenticity of these healing and 6% had medical evidence of completely healed of even terminal cases and 85% were partial healed and getting stronger. 1% claimed nothing happened at all.
That is pretty awesome, Jesus said if you believe on his name you shall lay hands on the sick and they shall recover........ Recover means getting better over time. James said the prayer of faith will save the sick and God shall "Rise" them up. Once again a position of getting better and better. Of course instant healing is possible when the Holy Spirit is involved with the Gift's of healings but standing on the word which is Health to all flesh also does just fine.
So if the Baptist are trying to find fraud and can't find it when it comes to this "Word of Faith" stuff, you know God is involved.
However................................
Aimee was fearful that she could not get everyone healed. She become focused on her image instead of letting God use her and drew away from all Healing ministry despite what God had done before. She got involved with other men, a big kidnapping scandal and was found dead of a drug overdose.
How can you follow that example? Lot's of Foursquare churches believe you should.
Truth is, Foursquare Churches don't even have many healing miracles. I got kicked out of the Church because the Pastor's wife Had cancer and I told her she can be healed!!! That got me kicked out...........
What I am saying is there are lots of goofy things going in lots of churches. With Catholics I remind some that even Mary was filled with the Holy Spirit and spoke in tongues so you might as well get what she had since she is so important to your faith. I try to find something positive to help and putting down these folks or speaking against their belief's is not the best way to reach anyone.
Lot's of people come out of these goofy things if we are a light for them to find their way out. We can be that light, and not the guy in the corner point out all the bad.
If we criticize what people believe, they shut us out. We want to be let in to show them the way out.
Mike.
the rcc has the charismatic catholics, they are basically pentacostals. I have attended such a mass. its been years but it was no different then my home pentacostal church at the time.
Of course, as a guest in their house, you are under constraints of civility. On a public forum we are to remain civil, but we are not "guests in the house" of any particular church.
Actually, it was James:
James 5: 13 Is any among you afflicted? let him pray. Is any merry? let him sing psalms.
14 Is any sick among you? let him call for the elders of the church; and let them pray over him, anointing him with oil in the name of the Lord:
15 And the prayer of faith shall save the sick, and the Lord shall raise him up; and if he have committed sins, they shall be forgiven him.
16 Confess your faults one to another, and pray one for another, that ye may be healed. The effectual fervent prayer of a righteous man availeth much.
14 Is any sick among you? let him call for the elders of the church; and let them pray over him, anointing him with oil in the name of the Lord:
15 And the prayer of faith shall save the sick, and the Lord shall raise him up; and if he have committed sins, they shall be forgiven him.
16 Confess your faults one to another, and pray one for another, that ye may be healed. The effectual fervent prayer of a righteous man availeth much.
"Goofy" is not the same thing as heresy. The Light is Jesus Christ, (John 14:6) and when dealing with the heresies and "goofiness" of the Scribes and Pharisees, He did not mince words nor did He hide the truth. IMHO, telling the truth to people is not the same thing as "annoying people off"--you know what I mean.
I am not criticizing people, rather I am pointing to the Bible, saying, "this is truth"
Look at what Jude says:
Jude 3 Beloved, when I gave all diligence to write unto you of the common salvation, it was needful for me to write unto you, and exhort you that ye should earnestly contend for the faith which was once delivered unto the saints.
4 For there are certain men crept in unawares, who were before of old ordained to this condemnation, ungodly men, turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness, and denying the only Lord God, and our Lord Jesus Christ.
5 I will therefore put you in remembrance, though ye once knew this, how that the Lord, having saved the people out of the land of Egypt, afterward destroyed them that believed not
Respectfully, I submit that what the SDAs believe is NOT the faith once delivered to the saints, and it is my belief that exposing the truth to them is what they need. The reason for that is because once they see the truth, they are responsible to respond. Elsewhere in Scripture, we are admonished to do as Jude stated:
English Standard Version
1 Timothy 6:12 Fight the good fight of the faith. Take hold of the eternal life to which you were called and about which you made the good confession in the presence of many witnesses.
Holman Christian Standard Bible
2 Timothy 1:13 Hold on to the pattern of sound teaching that you have heard from me, in the faith and love that are in Christ Jesus.
I hope that you can understand from where I am coming from. I do with you, and what you see herein this thread is my calm stating of the truths and the reasons why I believe as I do. Yeah, I think that you are wrong, but I did not tell you that directly until now. :p That is the way that I think it should be done.
B
Brother Mike
Guest
By Grace:
I quoted both Jesus and James.... Mark 16. Jesus said recover and James said rise up. Both terms and the Greek do not always denote instantly.
By Grace:
Now this sounds a whole lot better. I certainly do not believe in what the SDA does either. I still love them and I do see many good things they have done. I have heard good sermons by them on eating right of all things and taking care of the body. (That can't be all bad)
I had a so called "Faith" Church tell someone that since they don't speak in tongues they are not yet saved. That person also came to my church to sit under me as Pastor and how do you respond to that? (Duh, stay out of those other churches!!)
Another Church told me that I was not saved because I was not baptized correctly though I spoke in tongues which they said is needed to be saved. Go figure that one out. I asked the Pastor How I could not be saved and still speak in tongues and he said he does not understand everything................................. That was obvious.
I don't believe any church runs things 100% as God would want it run though. I think we find out later what we thought was all God, was really just us doing things and making extra work for nothing. Some make it a whole lot of extra work.
Mike.
I quoted both Jesus and James.... Mark 16. Jesus said recover and James said rise up. Both terms and the Greek do not always denote instantly.
By Grace:
Now this sounds a whole lot better. I certainly do not believe in what the SDA does either. I still love them and I do see many good things they have done. I have heard good sermons by them on eating right of all things and taking care of the body. (That can't be all bad)
I had a so called "Faith" Church tell someone that since they don't speak in tongues they are not yet saved. That person also came to my church to sit under me as Pastor and how do you respond to that? (Duh, stay out of those other churches!!)
Another Church told me that I was not saved because I was not baptized correctly though I spoke in tongues which they said is needed to be saved. Go figure that one out. I asked the Pastor How I could not be saved and still speak in tongues and he said he does not understand everything................................. That was obvious.
I don't believe any church runs things 100% as God would want it run though. I think we find out later what we thought was all God, was really just us doing things and making extra work for nothing. Some make it a whole lot of extra work.
Mike.
I suspect that you may not understand their "code words" which stand for obedience to Ellen White, always, and yes at the expense of clearly contradictory Scriptures taken in whole from their immediate context. The SDAs cannot do that.
Any other Evangelical church will honor another Evangelical church. We do not agree in all matters, but that is about 1 to 2%. The SDA church cannot let that happen, it is all or nothing, and I am surprised that you do not see that.
So as a pastor is it not your responsibility to guard the sheep from the wolves at the door? When people came to me, I pulled out the facts, and let the facts speak for themselves. I did not want people to base their decisions on me as an "authority". Instead, I wanted them to see empirical data, and the Bible
We have a plumb line, and that is Scripture. If something that someone teaches does not align with Scripture, that is heresy. It is that simple, Mike.
Here are some of their heresies, which I posted previously:
Can you as a pastor tell your sheep that these are "insignificant"?
Do you believe that those born before 1844 cannot be saved?
Do you agree that the writings of Ellen White are "are a continuing and authoritative source of truth which provide for the church comfort, guidance, instruction, and correction"?
I surely hope not in ALL of these things.
B
Brother Mike
Guest
I think your mistaking my lack of care for being ignorant of their evils.
I had a kick long time ago against the Catholic church with their crazy views and I was a KJV only nut job. If you did not read the KJV, you had to be a devil.
I could rail against Baptist, Methodist for allowing a gay vote, Word of Faith for purple hair and begging for money, Mormons for making Jesus out to be the brother of Satan, on and on.
I have learned that what someone else believes is not my pass to judge or shed light on all the evils they have accumulated in my book of evils.
So you don't agree with them, or like Ellen. It's not the end of the World.
I have come to find that if I yell at someone for not using their turn signal, then it's not long that mine also don't work.
I keep mine working.
Mike.
Mike.
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I am a member of a SDA church here but I do not subcribe to the EG White prophetess thing. This has been a cause of contention with me and some of the members. Some just do not recognise her as such. I believe Christianity is about a person and that Person is Jesus. I have repeatedly stated that when you adore anyone to that extent it is nothing but blatan IDOLATRY. whether he be the Pope or EG White or any other religious leader. I would not say it is a cult but I believe many do not want to challenge the church's teaching. They have a very good ministry for children. Each week when we have our Lesson Study and the teacher says, EG White says XYZ, I just tell him, give me scripture.
Each of us must be willing to think for ourselves and not allow ANY religious organisation to control our minds. We must be willing look to the bible and the bible alone. That is what I am doing.
On another point, I am not involved in what they call vegan eating. I eat meat, fish and chicken. They have this obsession with not eating meat. Another thing is the wearing of jewellry. I believe that they focus too much on the outward to the detriment of the inward. I wear jewellry and many think I am not a "true" member.
All of this is man-made tradition, and I will never allow anyone to dictate to me what is right or wrong, when they are using a human standard of measurement. God's word is my guide and this is what I tell them. Some may ask, why remain in a church when you disagree with some aspects of their belief. There is no perfect church and I believe as the Apostle Paul said, We must work out our own salvation with fear and trembling.
When you look at the millions who are deceived by the Roman Catholic church, if they were willing to take a look at the bible believe it, they would see the light. Most religious organisations use FEAR as their weapon. I know that fear is of the devil.
When I look at their doctrines and they do not compute with what the bible says, I dismiss it too. God's word say we are to PROVE all things.
I believe when Christ returns he will not ask us which church we were a member of.
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Mom has said for years "chew the meat and spit out the bones"Indeed, that seemed to be the case
I believe you were once in CARM, on the KJVO threads. I remember your posts there
To be effective, we must pick our battles. I choose to have a narrow field of war, in that regard.
That is a subjective view, how I view you it that you are describing. I prefer the objective view, or how this or that, which they say differs from what the Bible says. That way, I do not have to be emotionally attached to an issue.
When Paul said to the Philippian jailer "believe in the Lord Jesus Christ, and you will be saved" in answer to his question, that was not a statement of judgment of the faith of the jail keeper. Instead, it was a fact of faith, and it was a statement of exclusivity: There is no other name whereby we can be saved, other than the Lord Jesus Christ. That is an issue greater than purple hair, or long hair, or "gay rights" or the only perfect Bible. So when someone makes the Atonement of Jesus Christ worthless by saying that you have to do this, eat that etc IN ADDITION TO what Jesus did on the cross, that is a blasphemy against Jesus Christ, and againist Holy Spirit, who only and always points to Jesus Christ as the ONLY way the only truth and the only live whereby we can get to heaven, then the stakes are much higher. Can you see what I am saying?
IOW the KJVO stuff, Arminianian vs Calvinism are intra-house debates. They are saved people discussing their preferences. Unfortunately there were some at CARM who took a disagreement to personal levels, and were suspended because they were not looking at the bigger picture. Iif one looks at the Fundamental beliefs of the SDA church, you will find nothing like "believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and you will be saved" or having a personal relationship with Jesus. But what you will find is that they say that "salvation is an EXPERIENCE (Fundamental Belief # 10).
That is a MAJOR issue, do you not agree? ,
It is NOT subjective, instead it is objective. If one can demonstrate how inconsistent she was, or how she peddled medical quackery, and is "venerated as a prophet" by the SDA, then that leaves no ground for the follower of the SDA church to have confidence in their Fundamental Belief 18 about her.
One of the gifts of the Holy Spirit is prophecy. This gift is an identifying mark of the remnant church and was manifested in the ministry of Ellen. G. White . As the Lord's messenger, her writings are a continuing and authoritative source of truth which provide for the church comfort, guidance, instruction, and correction
We are not talking about the light bulbs in our car's turning signals. At less than $1.00 per, they are expendable and easily replaced. What I consider pernicious is the fact that there are people who are lost in the SDA church, who mistakenly believe that the pseudo health message is going to get them the seats in the orchestra section in the theater of heaven, but other Bible-believing Christians will not be permitted to be in the upper balcony.
We might not agree, but at the very least we can understand the other's position and not throw personal stones which will get the moderators upset. Stating one's reasons for believing something is not the same as saying "Your mother dresses you funny, and you are full of cooties." Can you see what I am saying?
Welcome to this forum, Abide!
I hope that you will find this forum to be different than others.
One thing that is a strong pull in the SDA community is the fact that they are very much enmeshed with one another. Personally, I believe that they are codependent because they try to enforce the unenforceable rules of what EGW says, and everyone sorta knows that the other person is fudging things when they say that "I was good this week because I followed Ellen's rules..." Thus fellowship is based on a verbal statement of an impossible situation.
Those ties are very strong, and very important in the SDA church, so understand that you or anyone else will have a difficult time if you ever want to break ranks. I recommend that you find and attend a Bible study in your neighborhood as well as find a good non-bitter site run by former SDAs. The ones who are not bitter will understand that you are in the midst of a HUGE change, and will offer you support, and not condemnation.
You also need to know that you may be part of a larger exodus movement outside the SDA church. Its membership is declining, and you cite the reasons above. Do not let anyone belittle you, or put you down if you fail to believe this or that about Ellen. You are on a journey, and some roads have more bumps than on others.
They MAY have a "good ministry for children" but what is it worth if they teach easily-impressed children to follow Ellen, and not Jesus or the Bible?
The Bereans were commended for doing that.
The "basis" for that Ellen said that the "animal nature" (whatever that is) of the slaughtered animal was transferred to the eater. (You are what you eat). Of course that is medical quackery!
On another site where there was a "safe zone for SDAs" there was a picture of one of the posters. She is a pretty blonde in a blue dress, and has these big blue beads around her collar. I thought that was hilarious! (hope you are not her!)
Fear is indeed a tactic of our Enemy, and a just, loving righteous and holy God does not have people come to Him by "scaring the hell out of them" as can be seen in the SDA Revelation Seminars.
Keep on studying the Bible, Abide. That will keep you on track.
Additionally, I suggest that you pray to Holy Spirit, who is the Revealer of Truth, and ask Him to show you the things that you need learn so that you can love Jesus more and more. He will respond favorably to that prayer because His job is to point to Jesus Christ always and only to Him. That is because the TRUE Remnant Church is scattered among various denominations, and in many different churches, including some in the SDA church, and some in the Roman Catholic church. that is why I attack the doctrines and the writings of dead people, but not attack the people inside those churches.
Attacking the people who belong to a particular cult such as Mormons instead of attacking their faulty theology is the hall mark of a cult-like mentality.
I hope that you will find this forum to be different than others.
Indeed so! I am glad to see that Holy Spirit has opened your eyes to see the truth.
One thing that is a strong pull in the SDA community is the fact that they are very much enmeshed with one another. Personally, I believe that they are codependent because they try to enforce the unenforceable rules of what EGW says, and everyone sorta knows that the other person is fudging things when they say that "I was good this week because I followed Ellen's rules..." Thus fellowship is based on a verbal statement of an impossible situation.
Those ties are very strong, and very important in the SDA church, so understand that you or anyone else will have a difficult time if you ever want to break ranks. I recommend that you find and attend a Bible study in your neighborhood as well as find a good non-bitter site run by former SDAs. The ones who are not bitter will understand that you are in the midst of a HUGE change, and will offer you support, and not condemnation.
You also need to know that you may be part of a larger exodus movement outside the SDA church. Its membership is declining, and you cite the reasons above. Do not let anyone belittle you, or put you down if you fail to believe this or that about Ellen. You are on a journey, and some roads have more bumps than on others.
They MAY have a "good ministry for children" but what is it worth if they teach easily-impressed children to follow Ellen, and not Jesus or the Bible?
The Bereans were commended for doing that.
The "basis" for that Ellen said that the "animal nature" (whatever that is) of the slaughtered animal was transferred to the eater. (You are what you eat). Of course that is medical quackery!
On another site where there was a "safe zone for SDAs" there was a picture of one of the posters. She is a pretty blonde in a blue dress, and has these big blue beads around her collar. I thought that was hilarious! (hope you are not her!)
The reason for that is because our salvation is so precious and so secure! Many cults use that verse to place fear into the hearts of its adherents, but the real sense is to be full of awe about the uniqueness of a God who chose us before the foundations of the earth. (Ephesians 1:4)
Ah, yes! You are following your SDA teachings well! Just playing with you a bit, not being mean, OK?
Fear is indeed a tactic of our Enemy, and a just, loving righteous and holy God does not have people come to Him by "scaring the hell out of them" as can be seen in the SDA Revelation Seminars.
Keep on studying the Bible, Abide. That will keep you on track.
Additionally, I suggest that you pray to Holy Spirit, who is the Revealer of Truth, and ask Him to show you the things that you need learn so that you can love Jesus more and more. He will respond favorably to that prayer because His job is to point to Jesus Christ always and only to Him. That is because the TRUE Remnant Church is scattered among various denominations, and in many different churches, including some in the SDA church, and some in the Roman Catholic church. that is why I attack the doctrines and the writings of dead people, but not attack the people inside those churches.
Attacking the people who belong to a particular cult such as Mormons instead of attacking their faulty theology is the hall mark of a cult-like mentality.
R
Rick W
Guest
I don't think "attack" is the intended word here though. Who is Jesus Christ? Always stick with who he is. Other religions view Him differently. One doesn't need to study another religion to witness the truth of who He is. Those differences will surface and yes, absolutely do not appear as one who's intent it is to prove someone else's belief is wrong. Let them make that decision. Show them, tell them what Christ has done in your life, what Christ means to you but always try to stay with Christ... who He is. Talk about him, not the other person or their "wrong" theology.
My dad owned a "Mom & Pop" grocery store while I was growing up. But in point of fact my mom's name was on the title too. Once I overheard her advice to him b/c my dad had a bee in his bonnet about Safeway (like Krogers, for our East Coat friends - and 'any Large Grocery Chain' for our out of States friends).
Here's what she said, "Don't criticize others. It makes you sound harsh. Instead, focus on your strong points: Customer Service, Loyalty, Convenience..."
The Strong Points of a Life with Christ Jesus would be somewhat different but it still applies.
~Sparrow
Here's what she said, "Don't criticize others. It makes you sound harsh. Instead, focus on your strong points: Customer Service, Loyalty, Convenience..."
The Strong Points of a Life with Christ Jesus would be somewhat different but it still applies.
~Sparrow