A child of the devil....

[jgredline]

The bible id pretty clear...If you are not a child of God, you are a child of the devil....The bible also teaches that those who are not his children he will separate them and cast them them into hell to be tormented day and night for ever and ever......Jesus said, you are with me or your against me....

The Children of God

(1 Jn 2:28-3:9) 28 And now, little children, abide in Him, that when He appears, we may have confidence and not be ashamed before Him at His coming. 29 If you know that He is righteous, you know that everyone who practices righteousness is born of Him.
3 Behold what manner of love the Father has bestowed on us, that we should be called children of God! Therefore the world does not know us, because it did not know Him. 2 Beloved, now we are children of God; and it has not yet been revealed what we shall be, but we know that when He is revealed, we shall be like Him, for we shall see Him as He is. 3 And everyone who has this hope in Him purifies himself, just as He is pure.
Sin and the Child of God
4 Whoever commits sin also commits lawlessness, and sin is lawlessness. 5 And you know that He was manifested to take away our sins, and in Him there is no sin. 6 Whoever abides in Him does not sin. Whoever sins has neither seen Him nor known Him.
7 Little children, let no one deceive you. He who practices righteousness is righteous, just as He is righteous. 8 He who sins is of the devil, for the devil has sinned from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that He might destroy the works of the devil. 9 Whoever has been born of God does not sin, for His seed remains in him; and he cannot sin, because he has been born of God

(Mt 25:31-46) 31 “When the Son of Man comes in His glory, and all the holy angels with Him, then He will sit on the throne of His glory. 32 All the nations will be gathered before Him, and He will separate them one from another, as a shepherd divides his sheep from the goats. 33 And He will set the sheep on His right hand, but the goats on the left. 34 Then the King will say to those on His right hand, ‘Come, you blessed of My Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world: 35 for I was hungry and you gave Me food; I was thirsty and you gave Me drink; I was a stranger and you took Me in; 36 I was naked and you clothed Me; I was sick and you visited Me; I was in prison and you came to Me.’
37 “Then the righteous will answer Him, saying, ‘Lord, when did we see You hungry and feed You, or thirsty and give You drink? 38 When did we see You a stranger and take You in, or naked and clothe You? 39 Or when did we see You sick, or in prison, and come to You?’ 40 And the King will answer and say to them, ‘Assuredly, I say to you, inasmuch as you did it to one of the least of these My brethren, you did it to Me.’
41 “Then He will also say to those on the left hand, ‘Depart from Me, you cursed, into the everlasting fire prepared for the devil and his angels: 42 for I was hungry and you gave Me no food; I was thirsty and you gave Me no drink; 43 I was a stranger and you did not take Me in, naked and you did not clothe Me, sick and in prison and you did not visit Me.’
44 “Then they also will answer Him, saying, ‘Lord, when did we see You hungry or thirsty or a stranger or naked or sick or in prison, and did not minister to You?’ 45 Then He will answer them, saying, ‘Assuredly, I say to you, inasmuch as you did not do it to one of the least of these, you did not do it to Me.’ 46 And these will go away into everlasting punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.â€Â

(Mk 9:42-48) 42 “But whoever causes one of these little ones who believe in Me to stumble, it would be better for him if a millstone were hung around his neck, and he were thrown into the sea. 43 If your hand causes you to sin, cut it off. It is better for you to enter into life maimed, rather than having two hands, to go to hell, into the fire that shall never be quenched 44 where
‘Their worm does not die
And the fire is not quenched.’
45 And if your foot causes you to sin, cut it off. It is better for you to enter life lame, rather than having two feet, to be cast into hell, into the fire that shall never be quenched 46 where
‘Their worm does not die
And the fire is not quenched.’
47 And if your eye causes you to sin, pluck it out. It is better for you to enter the kingdom of God with one eye, rather than having two eyes, to be cast into hell fire 48 where
‘Their worm does not die
And the fire is not quenched.’

(Lk 11:17-26) “Every kingdom divided against itself is brought to desolation, and a house divided against a house falls. 18 If Satan also is divided against himself, how will his kingdom stand? Because you say I cast out demons by Beelzebub. 19 And if I cast out demons by Beelzebub, by whom do your sons cast them out? Therefore they will be your judges. 20 But if I cast out demons with the finger of God, surely the kingdom of God has come upon you. 21 When a strong man, fully armed, guards his own palace, his goods are in peace. 22 But when a stronger than he comes upon him and overcomes him, he takes from him all his armor in which he trusted, and divides his spoils. 23 He who is not with Me is against Me, and he who does not gather with Me scatters.
24 “When an unclean spirit goes out of a man, he goes through dry places, seeking rest; and finding none, he says, ‘I will return to my house from which I came.’ 25 And when he comes, he finds it swept and put n order. 26 Then he goes and takes with him seven other spirits more wicked than himself, and they enter and dwell there; and the last state of that man is worse than the first.†(Lk 11:17-26)

 

[sisterchristian]

Great posts Brother! :wink:

 

[ThreeInOne]

So true!

 

[Drew]

jg claims as follows:

The bible id pretty clear...If you are not a child of God, you are a child of the devil....

Now here is a text which presumably supports this assertion:

(1 Jn 2:28-3:9) 28 And now, little children, abide in Him, that when He appears, we may have confidence and not be ashamed before Him at His coming. 29 If you know that He is righteous, you know that everyone who practices righteousness is born of Him.
3 Behold what manner of love the Father has bestowed on us, that we should be called children of God! Therefore the world does not know us, because it did not know Him. 2 Beloved, now we are children of God; and it has not yet been revealed what we shall be, but we know that when He is revealed, we shall be like Him, for we shall see Him as He is. 3 And everyone who has this hope in Him purifies himself, just as He is pure.
Sin and the Child of God
4 Whoever commits sin also commits lawlessness, and sin is lawlessness. 5 And you know that He was manifested to take away our sins, and in Him there is no sin. 6 Whoever abides in Him does not sin. Whoever sins has neither seen Him nor known Him.
7 Little children, let no one deceive you. He who practices righteousness is righteous, just as He is righteous. 8 He who sins is of the devil, for the devil has sinned from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that He might destroy the works of the devil. 9 Whoever has been born of God does not sin, for His seed remains in him; and he cannot sin, because he has been born of God.

This text certainly claims that there are some who are "of the devil". The question is: can we conclude that those who are of the devil are those who do not self-identify as Christians. I think that we cannot.

Note that the only statement which makes a kind of direct connection to a "father-son" relationship with the devil is this:

"He who sins is of the devil"

Obviously we all commit some sins. Since, obviously, we are not all children of the devil, this text cannot be taken in a direct literal way. It has to mean something like "he who sins habitually and puposefully, without willing to repent".

Now, we know from the evidence of this forum, if not from the evidence of life, that there are many who claim Jesus as their saviour who are as guilty of unrepentent sin as those who do not make this claim.

Therefore, a claim to be a Christian is not really evidence of being a person who is not of the devil.

The only thing we can reasonably conclude from this text is that unrepentent sin is a sign of being a child of the devil. However, claiming the name of Christ as Saviour is obviously not tightly correlated with the absence of unrepentent sinning.

 

[Fnerb]

This text certainly claims that there are some who are "of the devil". The question is: can we conclude that those who are of the devil are those who do not self-identify as Christians. I think that we cannot.

Note that the only statement which makes a kind of direct connection to a "father-son" relationship with the devil is this:

"He who sins is of the devil"

Obviously we all commit some sins. Since, obviously, we are not all children of the devil, this text cannot be taken in a direct literal way. It has to mean something like "he who sins habitually and puposefully, without willing to repent".

Now, we know from the evidence of this forum, if not from the evidence of life, that there are many who claim Jesus as their saviour who are as guilty of unrepentent sin as those who do not make this claim.

Therefore, a claim to be a Christian is not really evidence of being a person who is not of the devil.

The only thing we can reasonably conclude from this text is that unrepentent sin is a sign of being a child of the devil. However, claiming the name of Christ as Saviour is obviously not tightly correlated with the absence of unrepentent sinning.

Hmm, after reading over this section of scripture, my first thought is to agree with Drew.

Being that we are now redeemed childeren of God, we are of two natures. As long as we are on this earth, we are of two natures.

2Dear friends, now we are children of God, and what we will be has not yet been made known. But we know that when he appears,[a]we shall be like him, for we shall see him as he is.

My interpretation of this passage is as such: We "know" He is perfect, and we know that when we get to heaven we will once again be like him - perfect. However, we will not really know what that is like until His return.

4Everyone who sins breaks the law; in fact, sin is lawlessness.

Pretty straight-forward law passage there.

5But you know that he appeared so that he might take away our sins. And in him is no sin.

Ah the gospel - in HIM there is no sin.

6No one who lives in him keeps on sinning. No one who continues to sin has either seen him or known him.

Hurray, more Law. However, I think Drew got this passage correct. How can one live in sin, not repent of it - have no want to "stop" it, yet claim to know Christ? He cannot.

7Dear children, do not let anyone lead you astray. He who does what is right is righteous, just as he is righteous. 8He who does what is sinful is of the devil, because the devil has been sinning from the beginning. The reason the Son of God appeared was to destroy the devil's work. 9No one who is born of God will continue to sin, because God's seed remains in him; he cannot go on sinning, because he has been born of God.

This just seems to reinforce the above note - The life of a born again believer is a life of sanctification. The life of an unbeliever is not. That is why each of us should regularly test our life in light of scripture - and then once that mirror of The Law shows us our faults - cling to the cross of forgiveness and the sweet words of The Gospel.

 

[ThreeInOne]

No one is born into Christianity so we automatically belong to Satan -- unless we accept Jesus as our Savior at some point in our life. We are then born into God's family.

That's really the bottom line.

If one has not made the choice to receive Jesus, Satan is their god whether they think so or not. And this goes for the deeply devout religious people who have no personal relationship with Christ as well.

 

[Atonement]

No one is born into Christianity so we automatically belong to Satan -- unless we accept Jesus as our Savior at some point in our life. We are then born into God's family.

That's really the bottom line.

If one has not made the choice to receive Jesus, Satan is their god whether they think so or not. And this goes for the deeply devout religious people who have no personal relationship with Christ as well.

It can not be more clear then that . .

 

[Drew]

No one is born into Christianity so we automatically belong to Satan.

I am afraid that this contains a hidden assumption - that there are only two "buckets" - one containing those who belong to the devil and one containing those who belong to God.

I am skeptical that Scripture suppports such a conclusion - none of the texts in this thread so far support this. Try to prove me wrong if you wish.

It is entirely possible that there are people who belong to neither God nor Satan. This is what I think is the case and I will change my mind if someone provides Scriptural reasons. But there have been none so far.

And in case someone will try to use the "he who is not for me is against me" argument: First, this does not prove that the person is "of the devil" - it just states the person is "against Jesus".

Second, consider the following from the book of Luke (ch 9, verses 49-50):

John answered and said, "Master, we saw someone casting out demons in Your name; and we tried to prevent him because he does not follow along with us."

But Jesus said to him, "Do not hinder him; for he who is not against you is for you

 

[sisterchristian]

I am afraid that this contains a hidden assumption - that there are only two "buckets" - one containing those who belong to the devil and one containing those who belong to God.

I am skeptical that Scripture suppports such a conclusion - none of the texts in this thread so far support this. Try to prove me wrong if you wish.

It is entirely possible that there are people who belong to neither God nor Satan. This is what I think is the case and I will change my mind if someone provides Scriptural reasons. But there have been none so far.

And in case someone will try to use the "he who is not for me is against me" argument: First, this does not prove that the person is "of the devil" - it just states the person is "against Jesus".

Second, consider the following from the book of Luke (ch 9, verses 49-50):

John answered and said, "Master, we saw someone casting out demons in Your name; and we tried to prevent him because he does not follow along with us."

But Jesus said to him, "Do not hinder him; for he who is not against you is for you

Well if they don't belong to God than they belong to Satan even if they think otherwise. Because if you don't follow God, than you follow the satan simple as that, who else would you belong to if neither of these two?? Unless your an animal or something! Bottom line, if you don't accept Jesus than you will be with satan in hell. :smt102

 

[Drew]

Well if they don't belong to God than they belong to Satan even if they think otherwise. Because if you don't follow God, than you follow the satan simple as that, who else would you belong to if neither of these two??

This kind of reasoning is incorrect - your position assumes that it has been shown that "you have to belong to one or the other". Where do the Scriptures teach this?

If you are not a Republican, does that make you a Democrat?

If you live in Chicago and are not a Cubs fan, does that make you a White Sox fan?

You may well find Scriptures to support your position, but none have been produced this far.

 

[sisterchristian]

This kind of reasoning is incorrect - your position assumes that it has been shown that "you have to belong to one or the other". Where do the Scriptures teach this?

If you are not a Republican, does that make you a Democrat?

If you live in Chicago and are not a Cubs fan, does that make you a White Sox fan?

You may well find Scriptures to support your position, but none have been produced this far.

What about, if your not going to heaven than your going to Hell! What do say about that? Btw are you even a believer? I never know just by reading under your avitar.

 

[Drew]

What about, if your not in heaven than your in Hell! What do say about that? Btw are you even a believer? I never know just by reading under your avitar.

First of all, I would say that nobody reading this thread is in either heaven or hell.

Either way, the issue is not membership in Heaven or hell. The issue is this: it has been claimed that if you are not a child of God, you are a child of Satan. There has yet to be Scriptural proof.

Your line of argument seems to simply assume that if you are not in camp A, then you must be in camp B. You have given the reader no reason to believe this assertion.

And, yes, I am a believer.

 

[sisterchristian]

Either way, the issue is not membership in Heaven or hell. The issue is this: it has been claimed that if you are not a child of God, you are a child of Satan.

Yes it is an issue because If your a child of God than your going to heaven, And if your a Child of satan than your going to hell! You make no sense whtsoever! :-? I think you need to search the scriptures yourself, why should I do it for you? Especially if you claim to be a believer, it would be different if you were not a believer.

 

[Drew]

Yes it is an issue because If your a child of God than your going to heaven, And if your a Child of satan than your going to hell! You make no sense whtsoever! :-? I think you need to search the scriptures yourself, why should I do it for you? Especially if you claim to be a believer, it would be different if you were not a believer.

I am making perfect sense.

If you can provide Scriptural evidence for the following claim:

"The only kind of person who ends up in hell is a person who was a follower of Satan in his earthly life".

then you will have made a point.

You have not ruled out the following possibilty: A person, let's call him Fred, ends up in hell because he was a sinner who did not accept Christ's forgiveness, not because he was follower of Satan.

If you can prove that sinners who do not accept Christ are necessarily followers of Satan, you will also have made your case.

 

[jgredline]

Drew
People are either Goats or sheep....It is that simple..Go back and read the OP scriptures

 

[Drew]

Drew
People are either Goats or sheep....Is is that simple..Go back and read the OP scrptures

The fact that Jesus divides people into two camps - sheep and goats is only relevant to the matter at issue if the following statement is true:

"A goat is a person who is a follower of Satan"

Can you show that this is the case?

I might politely point out the fact that I do not agree with you does not, of course, mean that I did not read the Scriptures. I have read them and they simply do not support the assertion that a person who is presently "outside the kingdom" is a child of Satan.

And please note: When Jesus says:

"Depart from Me, you cursed, into the everlasting fire prepared for the devil and his angels"

This does not imply that those who go into the fire are "children of the devil" - all it can be used to support is a claim that the devil and his angels will be there as well. The fact that the devil and the goats wind up in the same place is not grounds for concluding that the goats were followers of the devil. That interpretation is of course, possible, but others are possible as well.

 

[sisterchristian]

The fact that Jesus divides people into two camps - sheep and goats is only relevant to the matter at issue if the following statement is true:

"A goat is a person who is a follower of Satan"

Can you show that this is the case?

I might politely point out the fact that I do not agree with you does not, of course, mean that I did not read the Scriptures. I have read them and they simply do not support the assertion that a person who is presently "outside the kingdom" is a child of Satan.

And please note: When Jesus says:

"Depart from Me, you cursed, into the everlasting fire prepared for the devil and his angels"

This does not imply that those who go into the fire are "children of the devil" - all it can be used to support is a claim that the devil and his angels will be there as well. The fact that the devil and the goats wind up in the same place is not grounds for concluding that the goats were followers of the devil. That interpretation is of course, possible, but others are possible as well.

Well since the Goats will follow satan into hell. than that would qualify them as followers of satan, wouldn't it? Matt 13:37-38 says "He who sows the good seed, is the son of man. The field is the world, the good seeds are the sons of the kingdom, but the tares are the SONS of the wicked one (satan) The enemy who sowed them is the devil, the harvest is the end of the age, and the reapers are the Angels. Therefore as the tares are gathered and burned in the fire, so it will be at the end of this age. The son of Man will send out his Angels, And they will gather out of his kingdom, all things that offend , and those who practice lawlessness. "And will cast them into the furnace of fire, there will be wailing and gnashing of teeth. "Then the righteous will shine fourth as the sun in the kingdom of their father. He who has ears to hear, let him hear! So you belong to ONE or the OTHER! :smt075

 

[Justmee]

It seems like all this talk confirms what my spirit has been speaking to me. It's all about serving 2 masters - ya can't do it! :smt091

 

[Drew]

Well since the Goats will follow satan into hell. than that would qualify them as followers of satan, wouldn't it?

No it does not. If the government casts me into jail after it casts Scooter Libby into jail, it does not follow that I am a follower of Scooter Libby. We just both get thrown into the same jail.

However, we finally have a legitimate argument for your position! Congratulations.

I think you are right in interpreting the parable of the tares. This parable shows that those who are ultimately put in the fire are indeed "sons of the evil one". I see no other way to take this text.

However, I think it is equally clear that there will be people who claim to be Christians that will be numbered among the tares.....

 

[jgredline]

Ok Drew....Lets take a close look...

(1 Jn 3:4-9)
4 Whoever commits sin also commits lawlessness, and sin is lawlessness.
5 And you know that He was manifested to take away our sins, and in Him there is no sin.
6 Whoever abides in Him does not sin. Whoever sins has neither seen Him nor known Him.
7 Little children, let no one deceive you. He who practices righteousness is righteous, just as He is righteous.
8 He who sins is of the devil, for the devil has sinned from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that He might destroy the works of the devil.
9 Whoever has been born of God does not sin, for His seed remains in him; and he cannot sin, because he has been born of God.

Verse 4...The Greek word [ποιέω / commits ]would be better translated ''practices'' John is speaking of habitual sin...
Verse 5... Here John is saying that Christ appeared so that He might take away our sins. And in Him is no sin....This is important....
Verse 6...The Greek word for whoever is πᾶς and this literally means ''everyone'' who lives in sin has neither seen Him nor known Him....So verse 6 makes a clear distinction of two types of people, not three or more...
Verse 7....The Greek noun that John Uses for little children is τεκνίον...Here John is addressing ''ALL'' of Gods Children, his disciples...he is not addressing some....Again John uses the Greek word ποιέω for habitual that precedes the definite article ὁ (that is not in the English translation) δικαιοσύνη righteousness...So Here John is making an emphatic statement, that he who practices righteousness is a child of God.....
Verse 8....Starts of with the Definite Article ὁ that precedes the verb ποιέω that preceded the definite article ὁ leading to the noun ''sin....So John again is emphatic in saying that ''anyone'' who practices sin is of the devil, anyone who lives in sin is of the devil....John is also emphatic in saying that it is for this very reason that Jesus came...to undo the works of the devil...
Verse 9....9πᾶς…οὐ ποιεῖ no one…does (commits), pres. perh. makes a habit of… γεγεννημένος pf ptc pass. γεννάω bear; pass. be born. σπέρμα seed. ἁμαρτάνειν inf. pres. perh. lead a sinful life (pres.) opp. aor. commit a sin...
While the flesh will continue to sin, ( not habitually) the spirit who belongs to God does not sin any longer....

Folks...I hope I did did not confuse you...I felt it was important to spend the time on this....The bible makes it clear...There are only two groups of people...Any questions on these verses or Greek, please let me know...