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A Christian who backslid

Nordica said:
Well, I am not sure about US Christians, but in my culture (and in this guy's culture), people get married (even unbelievers) if they expect a child together. He was a leader, and leaders should always set example, and leaders always have more responsibility before God.
I am not in the power to decide who will be in hell and who won't; but this guy broke the girl's heart, sent her away and let her deal with everything on her own... :sad He hurt her, his future child, her parents, his parents, pastor, me, my husband, her and his friends, making the future of the fellowship questionable as young people saw a strong leader in him, and now they are heartbroken and shattered. So, sin creates mess.... And I doubt that God is happy with the fact that this guy does little to make things right. This is a very dangerous situation. If we look at David, for example, he repented, tried to make things right, but still he reaped big consequences for his sin.
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I'm not defending what he did at all. (And I don't think the country a Christian lives in changes what God's word says we should be like.) Clearly he was in a leadership position and his actions go against the beliefs of your group in a serious way, so he shouldn't be representing your group as a leader whether or not he has sinned, is currently living in sin, or has actually "fallen away". I'm just wondering if in your eyes these things he did are so powerful that even Christ's sacrifice can't cover his sins?

And what of the woman? You haven't said much about her... What of her sin? Was it sinful for her to sleep with him as well in your eyes? Did she let him know that she was able to get pregnant or did she trick him into thinking she was perhaps on birth control, thinking that when she gets pregnant she will then have him "trapped' into a relationship with her? I don't know about in your community, but here in the United States that's a pretty common trick for women to pull to try to secure their relationship with a guy they like. Is that type of deception a sin? If this is what happened, is the guy still to be held totally responsible for the results of her sin of deception? Is the guy perhaps willing to support the child because it's the right thing to do no matter how she got pregnant, but she or your community are demanding unreasonable amounts of support that he simply can't fulfill? That's pretty common here in the U.S. as well, and is the reason some fathers end up going into hiding and therefore can't give any support at all. There's an awful lot of things that have to be taken into account in situations like this. It's really impossible for a human to know the true answers to these kind of things.

What I'm saying is there are a lot of factors to be considered if we have an open mind to the situation that may point a different direction than condemning these people as "falling away" from God. It's easy for us Christians to believe that the way we see things in and among our own local group of people has to be the way God sees it too. But that's not always the case. I've seen so many Christians who are completely convinced of another person's "sin" and lack of repentance who, when pressed for an answer, can't even back up their judgement with scripture. I've also seen so many Christians who are totally shocked at some of the things the Bible says (or in many cases DOESN'T say) when they actually read it with an open mind free of man's traditions. We need to be very careful about deciding another person has "fallen away" from God when they do things that in our limited vision seem so terrible we can't imagine how a Christian could do such a thing. In their eyes, things could be a lot different.
 
Jethro Bodine said:
Deborah13 , I'm impressed. You are showing wisdom beyond your age gender.
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Hey watch it there, you aren't far behind grandpa. :hips
Jethro Bodine said:
This illustrates well why Jesus tells us it's how 'brothers' respond to correction that determines if we are to regard them as a brother, or not.
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What scripture is this correction being based on? I'm not saying there isn't one, I just don't know which one it would be. What scripture says he 'must' marry her? Provide for his child, yes. 1 Tim, says so.
 
Obadiah said:
I'm just wondering if in your eyes these things he did are so powerful that even Christ's sacrifice can't cover his sins?

And what of the woman? You haven't said much about her... What of her sin?"
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No, Obadiah, Christ's sacrifice covers every sin, and I am sure God has forgiven him, but has this guy really repented or was he just sorry that the girl got pregnant and everything came out? That's a question now. Why responsibility, sacrifice, and duty become outdated nowadays? This is not the opinion of just one "group", we prayed, keep praying, and will continue praying, and also many different Christians (leaders and non-leaders) I've spoken to side with the pastor's opinion.

I am putting emphasis on the guy as he was the leader. This girl sinned as well, but she is much younger than he is. Naive and inexperienced.
Yes, there are many things to consider, but we, Christians, should be the light to the world, otherwise we are no different.

I know one U.S. man (non-Christian) who lives in a third-world country just to be with his child. He sacrificed A LOT (and still sacrifices), and I really admire this man. He has his flaws, but when it comes to responsibility for his child, I applaud him.
 
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Jethro Bodine said:
In the U.S. only the guy gets criticized and looked down on for making a baby out of wedlock. The woman becomes a hero for being a dedicated single mother.
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But many times the woman gets labeled as a slut. Everybody loses. Especially the innocent child.
At least twice a week, these last few months, I hold my grandson while he cries because his professing Christian father hasn't even called him in two yrs. now. They were close until he got married, then no contact since. Luckily he is close with his father's mother, grandmothers, uncle, and cousin.
Children are always the true victims.
 
Nordica said:
No, Obadiah, Christ's sacrifice covers every sin, and I am sure God has forgiven him, but has this guy really repented or was he just sorry that the girl got pregnant and everything came out? That's a question now...
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And therein lies a big problem. NO ONE can answer that question with anything but opinions. Only God can judge that.
Nordica said:
...This is not the opinion of just one "group", we prayed, keep praying, and will continue praying, and also many different Christians (leaders and non-leaders) I've spoken to side with the pastor's opinion.
I am putting emphasis on the guy as he was the leader. This girl sinned as well, but she is much younger than he is. Naive and inexperienced...
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I would tend to think most Christian groups would side with the pastors opinion. As for that opinion that the person in leadership is no longer qualified for leadership as he has gone against the standards of the group he represents, I personally also agree with the pastor! But the subject of this thread is whether or not a backslidden Christian is still "saved".
Nordica said:
...I know one U.S. man (non-Christian) who lives in a third-world country just to be with his child. He sacrificed A LOT (and still sacrifices), and I really admire this man. He has his flows, but when it comes to responsibility for his child, I applaud him.
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I do too! But he is living and obviously getting by. I have seen here in the United States where a family court has made totally unreasonable and impossible judgements against fathers while doing everything in favor of the mother. I've seen fathers ordered to pay more money in child support than they actually earn, leaving them to constantly get further and further behind in their legal obligation while slowly dieing themselves because they have no means left over to even buy groceries. Right now I know a man who is expected to pay huge sums of money to the woman, and he is not allowed to even see his children at all. Why is money the only means of support? How is he supposed to teach his children the gospel, or "raise them up in the way that they should go" when the court won't even allow him to see them? I'm sure the man you mentioned in the 3rd world country is far better off! But, once again, this really isn't the subject of this thread.
 
Obadiah said:
But the subject of this thread is whether or not a backslidden Christian is still "saved"..
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OK, let me sum it up: backslidden Christian is in a very dangerous position and may lose his or her salvation. Moreover, we all should take our walk with Christ seriously, otherwise we may backslide; and we should be the example to non-Christians, otherwise they wouldn't want to know our Christ.
 
Nordica said:
OK, let me sum it up: backslidden Christian is in a very dangerous position and may lose his or her salvation. Moreover, we all should take our walk with Christ seriously, otherwise we may backslide; and we should be the example to non-Christians, otherwise they wouldn't want to know our Christ.
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I would say it just a little differently.
backslidden Christian is in a very dangerous position and could become so cold that they reject their salvation. Moreover, we all should take our walk with Christ seriously, otherwise we may backslide; and we should be the example to non-Christians, otherwise they wouldn't want to know our Christ.
Based on Hebrews 10:26-29.
 
Obadiah said:
when she gets pregnant she will then have him "trapped' into a relationship with her? I don't know about in your community, but here in the United States that's a pretty common trick for women to pull to try to secure their relationship with a guy they like.
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Yeah, that 'guy' in the U.S. is Uncle Sam. :lol
Having a baby secures his husbandly support for the next eighteen years.
 
Deborah13 said:
What scripture is this correction being based on? I'm not saying there isn't one, I just don't know which one it would be. What scripture says he 'must' marry her? Provide for his child, yes. 1 Tim, says so.
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Oh, don't get me wrong. I'm not saying the guy HAS to marry the chick. But I think the tradition comes from somewhere to the left of Matthew in that forbidden territory called the 'Old Testament'.

But anyway, the correction I was referring to is being called on the carpet about having sex outside of marriage. It doesn't sound like he's responding in a manner consistent with a genuine repentance about what he did.
 
Deborah13 said:
But many times the woman gets labeled as a slut.
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I wouldn't say 'many times'.
I see them get called that when they look like a slut, not just because they have fifteen kids out of wedlock.

Deborah13 said:
Everybody loses. Especially the innocent child.
At least twice a week, these last few months, I hold my grandson while he cries because his professing Christian father hasn't even called him in two yrs. now. They were close until he got married, then no contact since. Luckily he is close with his father's mother, grandmothers, uncle, and cousin.
Children are always the true victims.
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IMO, the kids is what makes divorce and remarriage forbidden from a practical point of view.
Now don't get alarmed, people. I know there are times when it happens, and it happens for good reasons and not just because we're selfish by nature.
 
Rollo Tamasi said:
If you agree with that verse 100%, then are you interpreting it correctly?
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I'm agreeing with the part that says, "21 "Not everyone who says to Me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father who is in heaven will enter." (Matthew 7:21 NASB).

Thought you had me on the 'I never knew you part', right? :wink

You see, the emboldened part in the verse above means the believer who stops believing, and no longer does the will of God as a result, is not going to the heavenly kingdom he thinks he is just because he walked the aisle and got saved somewhere in the past.
 
Jethro Bodine said:
I'm agreeing with the part that says, "21 "Not everyone who says to Me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father who is in heaven will enter." (Matthew 7:21 NASB).

Thought you had me on the 'I never knew you part', right? :wink

You see, the emboldened part in the verse above means the believer who stops believing, and no longer does the will of God as a result, is not going to the heavenly kingdom he thinks he is just because he walked the aisle and got saved somewhere in the past.
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So are you saying that the entire verse does not present one meaning?
But it must be broken up into different parts to make sense?
Aren't we warned against doing such things?
 
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