A Christian who backslid

[Deborah13]

It doesn't sound like he's responding in a manner consistent with a genuine repentance about what he did.

In what way? Nordica said that he had repented.
But what I am hearing is that the church thinks that if he really had, then he would obey them and marry her.
I don't understand why they would want an unrepentant man to marry this young girl until he does repent. What if he marries her and never repents? Then she has no Godly leadership and the child has no Godly father to teach him/her in the way that they should go.

I see them get called that when they look like a slut, not just because they have fifteen kids out of wedlock.

Not where I live, we don't have a lot of slutty dressers. Even though he was busy putting notches in his belt, she should have said no. After all good girls do. It's her fault.

IMO, the kids is what makes divorce and remarriage forbidden from a practical point of view.

I agree.
There are times when it is best for the children and their safety for a marriage to end, but those cases are not the common marriage.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

So are you saying that the entire verse does not present one meaning?
But it must be broken up into different parts to make sense?
Aren't we warned against doing such things?

If it isn't meant to be broken up into two different truths then that means there is no such thing as a backslidden believer. It means believers are always doing the will of God, 'cause if they didn't it has to mean they were never saved to begin with. If you believe this then you should have been at my side defending against the heresy of certain people here who insisted vehemently that a believer could even disown Christ and they would still be saved. But Christ said the person who doesn't do the will of God can not enter the kingdom (yeah, I know they invented a place outside of the kingdom for saved, but disobedient people).

 

[Rollo Tamasi]

If it isn't meant to be broken up into two different truths then that means there is no such thing as a backslidden believer. It means believers are always doing the will of God, 'cause if they didn't it has to mean they were never saved to begin with. If you believe this then you should have been at my side defending against the heresy of certain people here who insisted vehemently that a believer could even disown Christ and they would still be saved. But Christ said the person who doesn't do the will of God can not enter the kingdom (yeah, I know they invented a place outside of the kingdom for saved, but disobedient people).

Why do you always yell at me and make me feel bad?

 

[Jethro Bodine]

Rollo Tamasi , I suggest to you that the 'not knowing' in Matthew 7:23 NASB can be referring to the person who does not mature in Christ, not someone who doesn't know him in salvation itself. This person fails along the way because they never attained an intimate 'knowing' of Christ that would have produced a person who believed AND endured to the very end. Similar to how soil #2 had growth in it, but not mature, deep rooted growth, which would have endured in the will of God to the end.

 

[Rollo Tamasi]

Rollo Tamasi , I suggest to you that the 'not knowing' in Matthew 7:23 NASB can be referring to the person who does not mature in Christ, not someone who doesn't know him in salvation itself. This person fails along the way because they never attained an intimate 'knowing' of Christ that would have produced a person who believed AND endured to the very end.

Thank you for being nice to me.
It means far more to me than the answer.

 

[YosefHayim]

God loves us, yes, and He is a just God, but He also respects human's free will. If a person is sure that they are saved, then it's much easier for them to be lulled into passivity or stray, and these are very dangerous positions.

“Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. Many will say to me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name and in your name drive out demons and in your name perform many miracles?’ Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!’ (Matt. 7:21-23)

Notice: They trusted in their works.

Wherefore the Lord said, Forasmuch as this people draw near me with their mouth, and with their lips do honour me, but have removed their heart far from me, and their fear toward me is taught by the precept of men: Isaiah 29:13

 

[iLOVE]

Every Christian should thank our Heavenly Father for looking beyond our faults, seeing our tomorrows, and looking at our needs. Most Christians can't do this as they have condemned others under the "Law" which there is no more sacrifices.

2 Corinthians 13:5 Easy-to-Read Version (ERV)
5 Look closely at yourselves. Test yourselves to see if you are living in the faith. Don’t you realize that Christ Jesus is in you? Of course, if you fail the test, he is not in you.

 

[iLOVE]

Every Christian should thank our Heavenly Father for looking beyond our faults, seeing our tomorrows, and looking at our needs. Most Christians can't do this as they have condemned others under the "Law" which there is no more sacrifices.

2 Corinthians 13:5 Easy-to-Read Version (ERV)
5 Look closely at yourselves. Test yourselves to see if you are living in the faith. Don’t you realize that Christ Jesus is in you? Of course, if you fail the test, he is not in you.

Question? So how does a person test themselves to see if you are living in the faith?

 

[MarkT]

I think another issue we have is that "falling away" to one person may not be seen as falling away to another person and each feels they are "obviously" right and can't imagine why everyone else doesn't see it the same way. I think this is an area were disagreement and confusion come into play too.

The only thing I see in the Bible is many of his followers fell away and stopped following him. John 6:66,67 So to fall away is to stop following him or to fall into unbelief. So the proverb applies. It has happened to them according to the true proverb, The dog turns back to his own vomit, and the sow is washed only to wallow in the mire. 2 Peter 2:22

Also I am reminded of the teaching. “When the unclean spirit has gone out of a man, he passes through waterless places seeking rest; and finding none he says, ‘I will return to my house from which I came.’ And when he comes he finds it swept and put in order. Then he goes and brings seven other spirits more evil than himself, and they enter and dwell there; and the last state of that man becomes worse than the first.” Luke 11:24-26

 

[Obadiah]

The only thing I see in the Bible is many of his followers fell away and stopped following him. John 6:66,67 So to fall away is to stop following him or to fall into unbelief. So the proverb applies. It has happened to them according to the true proverb, The dog turns back to his own vomit, and the sow is washed only to wallow in the mire. 2 Peter 2:22

Also I am reminded of the teaching. “When the unclean spirit has gone out of a man, he passes through waterless places seeking rest; and finding none he says, ‘I will return to my house from which I came.’ And when he comes he finds it swept and put in order. Then he goes and brings seven other spirits more evil than himself, and they enter and dwell there; and the last state of that man becomes worse than the first.” Luke 11:24-26

And this is something we can't really know: "...to fall away is to stop following him or to fall into unbelief" unless perhaps the person freely admits it to us. As in the example we've been talking about of the man that was part of Nordica's group... Did he "fall away" in that he no longer believes in or is no longer trying to follow Christ? Or did he sin, is sorry for his sin, and has been forgiven by God but people don't believe that because he's not behaving in the way their society expects him to? Or does he feel he never sinned in the first place? ("All things are lawful..." Paul, 1 Cor 10:23a) Some people take this verse more literally than others afterall. He may have agreed to follow the rules of his organization and failed at that, but in his own heart he may not have felt he was sinning against God. God looks much more at the attitude of our hearts than at our outward actions.

So I really have to question that "falling away" (especially by your explanation of it, which I can agree with) is anywhere near the same as backsliding. I've "backsliden" a number of times in my Christian life for various reasons some of which were my own fault and some of which were the result of things done to me by others. But I NEVER stopped believing in God or lost my will to at least try to follow Him. And I say "try" because none of us are perfect and none of us will ever follow Him perfectly. The best any of us can do is try. And when we backslide, He is there waiting for us with open arms when we are ready to turn around again. If we die while backsliding, we are just as forgiven as we are at any other time and He will once again welcome us with open arms, justified by His own sacrifice that paid for and covered all of our sins.

 

[MarkT]

And this is something we can't really know: "...to fall away is to stop following him or to fall into unbelief" unless perhaps the person freely admits it to us. As in the example we've been talking about of the man that was part of Nordica's group... Did he "fall away" in that he no longer believes in or is no longer trying to follow Christ? Or did he sin, is sorry for his sin, and has been forgiven by God but people don't believe that because he's not behaving in the way their society expects him to? Or does he feel he never sinned in the first place? ("All things are lawful..." Paul, 1 Cor 10:23a) Some people take this verse more literally than others afterall. He may have agreed to follow the rules of his organization and failed at that, but in his own heart he may not have felt he was sinning against God. God looks much more at the attitude of our hearts than at our outward actions.

So I really have to question that "falling away" (especially by your explanation of it, which I can agree with) is anywhere near the same as backsliding. I've "backsliden" a number of times in my Christian life for various reasons some of which were my own fault and some of which were the result of things done to me by others. But I NEVER stopped believing in God or lost my will to at least try to follow Him. And I say "try" because none of us are perfect and none of us will ever follow Him perfectly. The best any of us can do is try. And when we backslide, He is there waiting for us with open arms when we are ready to turn around again. If we die while backsliding, we are just as forgiven as we are at any other time and He will once again welcome us with open arms, justified by His own sacrifice that paid for and covered all of our sins.

Christians who have fallen away will happily tell you they are exChristians. Ever been to an exChristian site?

As for the man who got the girl pregnant, temptations to sin abound. In fact we all sin. 'Do not judge' - that is what I would say to Nordica. 'Repent, and go and sin no more' is what I would say to the man. And this is the manner of his repentance, in secret he should say, 'Father forgive me for I have sinned, I repent and I will go and sin no more.' For man confesses with his mouth. Romans 10:10 That takes care of her responsibilities and his responsibilities. As for his leadership in the church, that can continue if he is a good teacher, apostle, prophet. If he is not, then the church can vote him out. To fall into temptation is an everyday common occurrence. No one should think they are above temptation, and anyone who says they don't sin is a liar. 1 John 1:8 Forgiveness is not a one time occurrence. You have to be ready to forgive every day, every hour, every minute. Forgive and God will forgive you. As for what the man does after that, that is up to his conscience. It's really none of Nordica's business. Every man should look after his own salvation.

 

[Nordica]

Christians who have fallen away will happily tell you they are exChristians. Ever been to an exChristian site?

As for the man who got the girl pregnant, temptations to sin abound. In fact we all sin. 'Do not judge' - that is what I would say to Nordica. 'Repent, and go and sin no more' is what I would say to the man. And this is the manner of his repentance, in secret he should say, 'Father forgive me for I have sinned, I repent and I will go and sin no more.' For man confesses with his mouth. Romans 10:10 That takes care of her responsibilities and his responsibilities. As for his leadership in the church, that can continue if he is a good teacher, apostle, prophet. If he is not, then the church can vote him out. To fall into temptation is an everyday common occurrence. No one should think they are above temptation, and anyone who says they don't sin is a liar. 1 John 1:8 Forgiveness is not a one time occurrence. You have to be ready to forgive every day, every hour, every minute. Forgive and God will forgive you. As for what the man does after that, that is up to his conscience. It's really none of Nordica's business. Every man should look after his own salvation.

You see, MarkT, I wrote this example not to show that I'm better, I am not, I am a mere human in the need of Saviour, but only to show that we should be vigilant on our walk with Christ as sin hurts, not only us, but people around us, both believers and unbelievers, and it may create a tangled mess that may even compromise our salvation. Also, the body of Christ is for a reason; we affect each other, and we should warn each other, and guide each other. When one limb suffers, the whole body suffers, I experienced it firsthand.

Gee, that guy said he had feelings for the girl, so should be no problem in getting married, nobody is dragging him down the aisle, and it's not about "the group", when two people have a baby, they need to think what's best for the baby, and children need both parents.

And if someone says it's ok to be a distant or a weekend dad, well, I am yet to meet a child (or a teenager) who would be happy with this arrangement.

 

[JLB]

"Because of the iniquity of his unjust gain I was angry, I struck him; I hid my face and was angry, but he went on backsliding in the way of his own heart. I have seen his ways, but I will heal him; I will lead him and restore comfort to him and his mourners," - Isaiah 57:17-18

God knows you're backsliding, and He knows we're all sinners but he healed us anyway. We try to honor this great gift by turning from our Sin, not because we are saved by turning from Sin, but because we are saved by Christ and we should live our life for Him. Pray, praise, and give thanks; because God has saved you from yourself.

Amen I've been delivered from a backsliden lifestyle more than once.

The Lord is truly faithful.

In my case, I never stopped believing that Jesus Christ is Lord and that God raised Him from the dead. That His blood has cleansed me from my sins.

I also know that if I would have continued in this way, I could be lost forever, because the Lord warned me of this very thing.

It is possible to become hardened through sin and depart from Him in unbelief.

Beware, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief in departing from the living God;but exhort one another daily, while it is called “Today,” lest any of you be hardened through the deceitfulness of sin.
Hebrews 3:12-13

This is where repenting is a deciding factor.


JLB

 

[Jethro Bodine]

Question? So how does a person test themselves to see if you are living in the faith?

18 Little children, let us not love with word or with tongue, but in deed and truth. 19 We will know by this that we are of the truth, and will assure our heart before Him" (1 John 3:18-19 NASB)

"10 ...brethren, be all the more diligent to make certain about His calling and choosing you; for as long as you practice these things (see vs. 5-7), you will never * * stumble; 11 for in this way the entrance into the eternal kingdom of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ will be abundantly supplied to you." (2 Peter 1:10-11 NASB)

9 But, beloved, we are convinced of better things concerning you, and things that accompany salvation, though * we are speaking in this way. 10 For God is not unjust so as to forget your work and the love which you have shown toward His name, in having ministered and in still ministering to the saints." (Hebrews 6:9-10 NASB)

 

[Deborah13]

Question? So how does a person test themselves to see if you are living in the faith?

KJV
2Pe 1:5 And beside this, giving all diligence, add to your faith virtue; and to virtue knowledge;
2Pe 1:6 And to knowledge temperance; and to temperance patience; and to patience godliness;
2Pe 1:7 And to godliness brotherly kindness; and to brotherly kindness charity.
2Pe 1:8 For if these things be in you, and abound, they make you that ye shall neither be barren nor unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ.
2Pe 1:9 But he that lacketh these things is blind, and cannot see afar off, and hath forgotten that he was purged from his old sins.

 

[iLOVE]

2 Corinthians 13:5 Easy-to-Read Version (ERV)
5 Look closely at yourselves. Test yourselves to see if you are living in the faith. Don’t you realize that Christ Jesus is in you? Of course, if you fail the test, he is not in you.

Question? So how does a person test themselves to see if you are living in the faith?

What Kind of a Christian Are You?
by Matt Slick

"Test yourselves to see if you are in the faith; examine yourselves! Or do you not recognize this about yourselves, that Jesus Christ is in you unless indeed you fail the test?" (2 Cor. 13:5).

What kind of a Christian are you? Have you ever sat down and asked yourself that? Are you a Christian with your heart and mind in the world and your feet in the church? Or, are you the kind that seeks to do God's will as revealed in Scripture? Whichever one you are, the Bible tells you to examine yourself to see if you are in the faith. Have you done that? Have you examined your beliefs, your actions, your motives and compared them to scripture to see what kind of a Christian you are? Are you submitting your life to God or God to your life?

This is an important question. No one should simply take it for granted that he is saved because he is born into a Christian family, or is a good person, or is sincere in heart and mind, or thinks that God is so loving that he'll let everyone into heaven. These things do not make anyone a Christian nor do they guarantee anything with God. Only faith in Christ (Rom. 5:1), trust in Him alone for the forgiveness of sins (Acts 4:12), receiving Him (John 1:12) is what being born again is about. It means to be changed from the inside because the Lord has changed you, saved you, and the Holy Spirit is now in you.

What kind of a Christian are you? Are you one on the outside but not on the inside? Are you a social Christian? Do you claim the name but not the heart of Christianity? Are you a person who knows he or she is saved because of the work of Christ on the cross and you trust in Him alone? Or do you think that your sincerity and good works, in cooperation with God's grace, will get you to heaven? Are you the kind of a person who believes in God yet walks into sin, knowingly, painfully. Maybe you listen to the world and think that homosexuality is an acceptable alternative life style. Or maybe you think that true Christians need to remain open minded and not condemn anyone. Is premarital sex is okay if you love each other and/or plan to get married? Do you think that adultery is just an "affair" or is it a terrible sin against God? Whatever your opinions are is what reveals what you are inside: biblical, worldly, or a little bit of both. Ultimately, though, you must examine yourself to see if you are in the faith. Basically, if you agree with the Bible, you're fine. If you do not, then you are wrong.

Here are some questions meant to get you to think and examine yourself to help you see what kind of a Christian you are, maybe to see if you really are one. The Holy Spirit can prompt you. He can let you know about sin and righteousness (John 16:8). Lovingly and humbly submit yourself to Him.

Examine yourself:

• Do you believe the essentials of the Christian faith: Trinity, Jesus is God in flesh, salvation by grace through faith, Jesus rose from the dead physically?
• Do you confess that you are a sinner before a holy God? (Rom. 3:23)
• Do you confess that you cannot please God through your own efforts? (Isa. 64:6)
• Do you acknowledge that Jesus is the only way to salvation? (John 14:6; Acts 4:7-12)
• Do you acknowledge that there is only one God in all the universe? (Isaiah 43:10; 44:6,8)
• Do you seek to do the will of the Lord? (Matt. 7:21)
• Do you know that God loves you and desires your relationship with Jesus? (1 Cor. 1:9).
• Do you acknowledge that sin causes a separation between you and God? (Isaiah 59:2)
• Do you approve of social agendas in the church? (Rom. 12:12)
• Do you believe that morals are relative? (Exodus 20:1-17)
• Do you suspect that reincarnation might be true? (Heb. 9:26).
• Do you casually look at the Bible as a guide book, not the rule of truth and faith? (2 Tim. 3:16)
• Do you believe that feelings are as valid as scripture to find truth? (Jer. 17:9)
• Do you believe that those who reject Christ will go to hell forever? (Matt. 25:46)
• Do you pray only when something is wrong in your life? (Phil. 4:6)
• Do you go to church only on special occasions? (Heb. 10:25)
• Do you use the Lord's name in vain? (Exodus 20:7)
• Do you regularly watch things on TV and in the movies that you shouldn't? (Phil. 4:8)
• Are we basically good in nature or bad? (Eph. 2:3; Psalm 51)
• Is the devil a real being? (Rev. 20:1)
• Is dust collecting on your Bible?

If you have the Son in you, the Holy Spirit will bear witness of the truth of your life in Him. Jesus said, "My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me; 28and I give eternal life to them, and they shall never perish; and no one shall snatch them out of My hand," (John 10:27-28).

A call to repentance and commitment

Repentance means to turn from that which is unholy towards that which is holy. It means to turn away from sin and move towards God. God is not where our sin is. He is not where rebellion to His word is. He is not in the world that seeks to use the Church as a social instrument, nor with the Christian who wants to change the church and make it more "tolerant." He is not in the hearts of the cold who do not take His words seriously, but instead give casual regard to it only when it agrees with their feelings and wants.

Repentance begins when we realize that our hearts are not in accord with God and we willingly submit our wills to God's will as it is revealed in the Bible. We discover our need to do this when we compare ourselves to the Lord Jesus. We discover this when we compare ourselves to the word of God.

After repentance comes commitment. Commitment to God and His word should be the heart of every Christian. After all, Jesus said that those whom He knows hear His voice and follow Him (John 10:27-28). That is, they follow what Jesus says and do what He does.
What kind of a Christian are you?