Bible Study A Disputed Passage in 1 Corinthians

[GodsGrace]

What exactly are the following verses discussing?

Some take them to mean that OUR work will be judged,
and even if it is judged to be unworthy, IT (our work) will be burned up,
but WE will just make it through to heaven.

OR

Is it discussing the ministry of teaching/preaching that Paul and Apollos undertook?

Thanks.
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1 Corinthians 3:4-17 NASB

4For when one says, “I am of Paul,” and another, “I am of Apollos,” are you not mere men?
5What then is Apollos? And what is Paul? Servants through whom you believed, even as the Lord gave opportunity to each one.
6I planted, Apollos watered, but God was causing the growth.
7So then neither the one who plants nor the one who waters is anything, but God who causes the growth.
8Now he who plants and he who waters are one; but each will receive his own reward according to his own labor.
9For we are God’s fellow workers; you are God’s field, God’s building.
10According to the grace of God which was given to me, like a wise master builder I laid a foundation, and another is building on it. But each man must be careful how he builds on it.
11For no man can lay a foundation other than the one which is laid, which is Jesus Christ.
12Now if any man builds on the foundation with gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, straw,
13each man’s work will become evident; for the day will show it because it is to be revealed with fire, and the fire itself will test the quality of each man’s work.
14If any man’s work which he has built on it remains, he will receive a reward.
15If any man’s work is burned up, he will suffer loss; but he himself will be saved, yet so as through fire.
16Do you not know that you are a temple of God and that the Spirit of God dwells in you? 17If any man destroys the temple of God, God will destroy him, for the temple of God is holy, and that is what you are.

 

[Who Me]

There are key words in that passage, which make it clear.

'Any Mans work', not Pauls work or Apollous work but any mans work.

The passage says what we do for the Lord will be judged.

 

[GodsGrace]

There are key words in that passage, which make it clear.

'Any Mans work', not Pauls work or Apollous work but any mans work.

The passage says what we do for the Lord will be judged.

Yes, many persons understand it this way.

But who are the ANY MAN'S work?

Is it our work or the work of ministers?

Paul is speaking about the work that he and Apollos is doing.
One sows, one plants, one waters....
This is their ministry...to preach and teach the word of God.

Verse 7 says that neither the one that plants nor the one that waters is anything...
this is referring to the workers...Paul and Apollos in this case.

Verse 8 says they will receive their own reward ... who? The ones who plant and water...the ones in ministry.

The WE in the verses means US,,, we are the field.

I think it's important to know what this verse means for a couple of reasons:

1. It's incorrectly used by the CC as support for purgatory because it speaks of just making it but through fire.

2. Many use this to show that some won't do anything for the work of God, but they'll just barely get by.

Comments?

 

[Hidden In Him]

2. Many use this to show that some won't do anything for the work of God, but they'll just barely get by.

Hello, sister.

You are correct that the work of ministers is in view here, for as you point out, he makes this distinction by saying, "We are God’s fellow workers; you are God’s field, God’s building." Many were standing up in Corinth to say they were teachers, with some saying "I am of Apollos," or "I am of Paul," or I am of Cephas (Peter)." This is the near equivalent of saying, "I am a disciple of Apollos," or "I am a disciple of Paul," which is why Paul said, "who are we but servants of Christ?" The Greeks were big on identifying with other great philosophers, and to be a personal disciple of someone carried a type of weight, like if we said today, "I attend an Ivy League school," or "I got my degree from Harvard."

So you had a bunch of people all sort of vaunting themselves as "great teachers," so Paul compared himself and Apollos to nothing more than farmhands (and in Chapter 4 to nothing more than a captured slave) in order to illustrate how their pride did not have a place in the things of God. So the "work" each of these teachers was doing involved what they were teaching others, both through doctrine and by example of the lifestyle they were living.

This is what he was referring to in the following:

11 For no man can lay a foundation other than the one which is laid, which is Jesus Christ.
12 Now if any man builds on the foundation with gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, straw,
13 each man’s work will become evident; for the day will show it because it is to be revealed with fire, and the fire itself will test the quality of each man’s work.
14 If any man’s work which he has built on it remains, he will receive a reward.
15 If any man’s work is burned up, he will suffer loss; but he himself will be saved, yet so as through fire.
16 Do you not know that you are a temple of God and that the Spirit of God dwells in you? 17 If any man destroys the temple of God, God will destroy him, for the temple of God is holy, and that is what you are.

As for the idea that this passage is somehow referring to purgatory, there is a possibility that it is not even referring to in the next life (i.e. their works being "burned up"), though it would take some explaining and going through the entire letter to show this to you.

 

[GodsGrace]

Hello, sister.

You are correct that the work of ministers is in view here, for as you point out, he makes this distinction by saying, "We are God’s fellow workers; you are God’s field, God’s building." Many were standing up in Corinth to say they were teachers, with some saying "I am of Apollos," or "I am of Paul," or I am of Cephas (Peter)." This is the near equivalent of saying, "I am a disciple of Apollos," or "I am a disciple of Paul," which is why Paul said, "who are we but servants of Christ?" The Greeks were big on identifying with other great philosophers, and to be a personal disciple of someone carried a type of weight, like if we said today, "I attend an Ivy League school," or "I got my degree from Harvard."

So you had a bunch of people all sort of vaunting themselves as "great teachers," so Paul compared himself and Apollos to nothing more than farmhands (and in Chapter 4 to nothing more than a captured slave) in order to illustrate how their pride did not have a place in the things of God. So the "work" each of these teachers was doing involved what they were teaching others, both through doctrine and by example of the lifestyle they were living.

This is what he was referring to in the following:

11 For no man can lay a foundation other than the one which is laid, which is Jesus Christ.
12 Now if any man builds on the foundation with gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, straw,
13 each man’s work will become evident; for the day will show it because it is to be revealed with fire, and the fire itself will test the quality of each man’s work.
14 If any man’s work which he has built on it remains, he will receive a reward.
15 If any man’s work is burned up, he will suffer loss; but he himself will be saved, yet so as through fire.
16 Do you not know that you are a temple of God and that the Spirit of God dwells in you? 17 If any man destroys the temple of God, God will destroy him, for the temple of God is holy, and that is what you are.

As for the idea that this passage is somehow referring to purgatory, there is a possibility that it is not even referring to in the next life (i.e. their works being "burned up"), though it would take some explaining and going through the entire letter to show this to you.

Hi HIH
So good to hear from you.
You have so much information to offer.

I agree with you OR, I'm happy you agree with me!

I find these verses to be so twisted out of shape.

I also believe verse 16 is very important.
WE are the temple of God and Paul issues a warning that it is not to be destroyed, by incorrect teaching, I'd say. Do you agree?

As to the next life, I believe it's speaking about now and here. No one should attempt to remove us from the foundation, which is Christ and His teachings.

As to purgatory...
Absolutely not.

 

[Hidden In Him]

I also believe verse 16 is very important.
WE are the temple of God and Paul issues a warning that it is not to be destroyed, by incorrect teaching, I'd say. Do you agree?

As to the next life, I believe it's speaking about now and here. No one should attempt to remove us from the foundation, which is Christ and His teachings.

Yes.

It's actually verse 16 that suggests he may not be talking about the sweet "bye and bye," but about the rotten here and now, Lol.

Let me just mention a few things here. Many assume the "fires" he is referring to is a reference to Judgment Day, but fires were also used of suffering hardships and loss. 1 Peter 1:6-7 mentioned how manifold trials can purify our faith, like gold tried in the fire, and the fires Paul mentioned could likewise be a reference to being chastened and/ or disciplined by the Lord. This seems to fit with 1 Corinthians 5:1-5. There was man whom he said was "leavening the whole lump" among them by essentially living out a very bad example before all, in sleeping with his father's wife. Paul's answer for this was that he be excommunicated, on a day when the Spirit of the Lord, and his spirit together with them chose to execute that judgment upon the man. This could have been the type of "day" Paul was referring to, when chastisement would come from the Lord, so that the man "be handed over to the Devil for the destruction of the flesh, that the spirit might be saved on the day of the Lord."

This is very similar language to what he is addressing in Chapter 3, in saying, "If any man’s work is burned up, he will suffer loss; but he himself will be saved, yet so as through fire," and it comes on the heals of it just a few Chapters later.

There is more that I can add, including from early commentators on the text, Ambrosiaster especially. Maybe I can add that later, as well as another passage in Chapter 11 that speaks of the very same things.

Sorry this was late. Didn't think you would still be up.

 

[GodsGrace]

Yes.

It's actually verse 16 that suggests he may not be talking about the sweet "bye and bye," but about the rotten here and now, Lol.

Let me just mention a few things here. Many assume the "fires" he is referring to is a reference to Judgment Day, but fires were also used of suffering hardships and loss. 1 Peter 1:6-7 mentioned how manifold trials can purify our faith, like gold tried in the fire, and the fires Paul mentioned could likewise be a reference to being chastened and/ or disciplined by the Lord. This seems to fit with 1 Corinthians 5:1-5. There was man whom he said was "leavening the whole lump" among them by essentially living out a very bad example before all, in sleeping with his father's wife. Paul's answer for this was that he be excommunicated, on a day when the Spirit of the Lord, and his spirit together with them chose to execute that judgment upon the man. This could have been the type of "day" Paul was referring to, when chastisement would come from the Lord, so that the man "be handed over to the Devil for the destruction of the flesh, that the spirit might be saved on the day of the Lord."

This is very similar language to what he is addressing in Chapter 3, and it comes one the heals of it just a few Chapters later.

There is more that I can add, including from early commentators on the text, Ambrosiaster especially. Maybe I can add that later, as well as another passage in Chapter 11 that speaks of the very same things.

Sorry this was late. Didn't think you would still be up.

Almost 1 am here.
Will be studying up on your verses above tomorrow morning.
If you add more, I'll study that too.
:nod

'night

 

[Hidden In Him]

If you add more, I'll study that too.
:nod

I'll add a little more here while I'm at it then.

Going back to verses 16-17, he stated, "16 Do you not know that you are a temple of God and that the Spirit of God dwells in you? 17 If any man destroys the temple of God, God will destroy him, for the temple of God is holy, and that is what you are."

In Chapter 11, destroying the body of Christ is what some of them were doing by creating serious divisions within the congregation of God. Many weren't even taking communion together anymore. So Paul told them,

28 Let a man examine himself, and so let him eat of the bread and drink of the cup. 29 For he who eats and drinks in an unworthy manner eats and drinks judgment to himself, not discerning the Lord’s body. 30 For this reason many are weak and sick among you, and many sleep. 31 For if we would judge ourselves, we would not be judged. 32 But when we are judged, we are chastened by the Lord, that we may not be condemned with the world. 33 Therefore, my brethren, when you come together to eat, wait for one another. 34 But if anyone is hungry, let him eat at home, lest you come together for judgment. And the rest I will set in order when I come.

This is once again very similar language: For those who sinned, they would be chastened by the Lord that they not be condemned with the world. And many apparently already had. As he stated, "Many are weak and sick." Some had even died their judgment was so serious, and this is likely what he meant in Chapter 3 by saying, "If you destroy the temple, God will destroy you." It's a reference to how many were not understanding the seriousness of what they were doing in taking communion, because this was in effect a public profession before God and man that they were part of the body of Christ, and yet they were destroying that body through division and strife. So instead of coming together to take communion and be reminded that they were one body with each other, they were "coming together for judgment," and foolishly "eating and drinking judgment unto themselves."

I can include the quotes by Ambrosiaster tomorrow maybe. Some ancient writers interpreted it like many do today; that it was talking about in the afterlife. But Ambrosiaster clearly interpreted it as talking about fires and judgments that were coming in this life.

TTYT.

 

[Who Me]

But who are the ANY MAN'S work?

What do you understand by " any man " ?
I think it literally means any and every Christian.

 

[for_his_glory]

1 Corinthians 3:1-23 is all about divisions within the church in how Paul first laid out the foundation of the church in Corinth, which is Christ Jesus. The ministers in Corinth were causing divisions in glorifying themselves in their own positions as being ministers and their works were of no value as they were not building upon the foundation of Christ allowing the Holy Spirit lead them. Other words their works were of their own.

 

[D-D-W]

It is talking about ANY person's work - i.e. the fruit they produce in their own life.

I have always liked that passage. I worked at a Fundamentalist Baptist youth camp during the summer between my junior and senior years. (nice place for a pentecostal boy like me) At one of the chapel services the director preached/taught on that passage. He had such a vivid word picture that 50 years later I can still see it.

He took the "surrounded by a great crowd of witnesses" and applied it here. At the the end of time. we were all in a huge stadium like a pro football venue. One by one the angels built a house out of the works and fruit of each believer. Then the angel would torch it. All the beautiful hand rubbed oak staircases and railings burned. The straw stubble filling the luxury mattresses burned. But all of the "gold, silver and precious stones" survived the fire and was the person's heavenly reward.

So no matter how beautiful our own works are, if they are FOR the Lord but not FROM the Lord, they will burn. They will have no eternal value whatsoever.

I will always be thankful for Rev. Chuck Reed for that.

 

[WalterandDebbie]

It is talking about ANY person's work - i.e. the fruit they produce in their own life.

I have always liked that passage. I worked at a Fundamentalist Baptist youth camp during the summer between my junior and senior years. (nice place for a pentecostal boy like me) At one of the chapel services the director preached/taught on that passage. He had such a vivid word picture that 50 years later I can still see it.

He took the "surrounded by a great crowd of witnesses" and applied it here. At the the end of time. we were all in a huge stadium like a pro football venue. One by one the angels built a house out of the works and fruit of each believer. Then the angel would torch it. All the beautiful hand rubbed oak staircases and railings burned. The straw stubble filling the luxury mattresses burned. But all of the "gold, silver and precious stones" survived the fire and was the person's heavenly reward.

So no matter how beautiful our own works are, if they are FOR the Lord but not FROM the Lord, they will burn. They will have no eternal value whatsoever.

I will always be thankful for Rev. Chuck Reed for that.

I would suggest to always following the LORD steps.

Love, Walter

 

[JLB]

But who are the ANY MAN'S work?

The people they are building into a Holy Temple.

If we teach with any other doctrine than what Christ has given, then the people will have (be) a mixture of man's teaching and Christ.


For we are God’s fellow workers; you are God’s field, you are God’s building. 1 Corinthians 3:9


Whoever transgresses and does not abide in the doctrine of Christ does not have God. He who abides in the doctrine of Christ has both the Father and the Son. 2 John 9

Sobering stuff.




JLB

 

[eddif]

Galatians 2:20 kjv
20. I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.

Revelation 3:20 kjv
20. Behold, I stand at the door, and knock: if any man hear my voice, and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me.

1 Corinthians 15:45 kjv
15. And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.

Colossians 1:29 kjv
29. Whereunto I also labour, striving according to his working, which worketh in me mightily

Mississippi redneck
eddif

 

[Wings of a dove]

God is a consuming Fire. Heb.12:29

2Peter3:10-18
But the Day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night, in which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the WORKS that are therein shalled be burned up. (Evil rudiments)

1Peter1:7
That the trial of your faith, being much more precious than of gold that perisheth, though it be TRIED WITH FIRE, might be found unto praise and honour and glory at the appearing of Jesus Christ.

 

[GodsGrace]

Yes.

It's actually verse 16 that suggests he may not be talking about the sweet "bye and bye," but about the rotten here and now, Lol.

Let me just mention a few things here. Many assume the "fires" he is referring to is a reference to Judgment Day, but fires were also used of suffering hardships and loss. 1 Peter 1:6-7 mentioned how manifold trials can purify our faith, like gold tried in the fire, and the fires Paul mentioned could likewise be a reference to being chastened and/ or disciplined by the Lord.

Good on above.
I also heard that Jesus is the fire mentioned in 1 Cor 3:13
This is because it is Jesus who will do the judging in the last day.
John 5:22 God has given judgement to the Son.
Matthew 25:31 Jesus will separate the goats from the sheep.
2 Timonty 4:1 Jesus will judge the living and the dead.

Did you ever hear this?
I agree that Jesus will be doing the judging...
but I'm not sure HE is the fire mentioned in 1 Cor 3:13

This seems to fit with 1 Corinthians 5:1-5. There was man whom he said was "leavening the whole lump" among them by essentially living out a very bad example before all, in sleeping with his father's wife. Paul's answer for this was that he be excommunicated, on a day when the Spirit of the Lord, and his spirit together with them chose to execute that judgment upon the man. This could have been the type of "day" Paul was referring to, when chastisement would come from the Lord, so that the man "be handed over to the Devil for the destruction of the flesh, that the spirit might be saved on the day of the Lord."

The man was ex-communicated (1 Cor 5:1...)
but was restored to fellowship (2 Cor 2:5...)
The Lord's Day would be at the end of the world.
That is my understanding.

This is very similar language to what he is addressing in Chapter 3, in saying, "If any man’s work is burned up, he will suffer loss; but he himself will be saved, yet so as through fire," and it comes on the heals of it just a few Chapters later.

There is more that I can add, including from early commentators on the text, Ambrosiaster especially. Maybe I can add that later, as well as another passage in Chapter 11 that speaks of the very same things.

Sorry this was late. Didn't think you would still be up.

Also, one of my bibles directs me to
Ephesians 2:20 which I found interesting...

Ephesians 2:19-22
19So then you are no longer strangers and aliens, but you are fellow citizens with the saints, and are of God’s household,
20having been built on the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Christ Jesus Himself being the corner stone,
21in whom the whole building, being fitted together, is growing into a holy temple in the Lord,
22in whom you also are being built together into a dwelling of God in the Spirit.

 

[GodsGrace]

Hello, sister.

You are correct that the work of ministers is in view here, for as you point out, he makes this distinction by saying, "We are God’s fellow workers; you are God’s field, God’s building." Many were standing up in Corinth to say they were teachers, with some saying "I am of Apollos," or "I am of Paul," or I am of Cephas (Peter)." This is the near equivalent of saying, "I am a disciple of Apollos," or "I am a disciple of Paul," which is why Paul said, "who are we but servants of Christ?" The Greeks were big on identifying with other great philosophers, and to be a personal disciple of someone carried a type of weight, like if we said today, "I attend an Ivy League school," or "I got my degree from Harvard."

So you had a bunch of people all sort of vaunting themselves as "great teachers," so Paul compared himself and Apollos to nothing more than farmhands (and in Chapter 4 to nothing more than a captured slave) in order to illustrate how their pride did not have a place in the things of God. So the "work" each of these teachers was doing involved what they were teaching others, both through doctrine and by example of the lifestyle they were living.

This is what he was referring to in the following:

11 For no man can lay a foundation other than the one which is laid, which is Jesus Christ.
12 Now if any man builds on the foundation with gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, straw,
13 each man’s work will become evident; for the day will show it because it is to be revealed with fire, and the fire itself will test the quality of each man’s work.
14 If any man’s work which he has built on it remains, he will receive a reward.
15 If any man’s work is burned up, he will suffer loss; but he himself will be saved, yet so as through fire.
16 Do you not know that you are a temple of God and that the Spirit of God dwells in you? 17 If any man destroys the temple of God, God will destroy him, for the temple of God is holy, and that is what you are.

As for the idea that this passage is somehow referring to purgatory, there is a possibility that it is not even referring to in the next life (i.e. their works being "burned up"), though it would take some explaining and going through the entire letter to show this to you.

I agree, this passage is speaking of right now.
However, the judging of the works will be on the last day...
and the judging will be on those that taught, or in some respect built the house of God and it's occupants (us).
This is clear in verse 16...WE are the Temple of God, and no man should destroy the temple of God.

This also reminds me of
James 3:1
1Let not many of you become teachers, my brethren, knowing that as such we will incur a stricter judgment.

When I was teaching kids our faith, this big responsibility was made clear to me.

 

[GodsGrace]

What do you understand by " any man " ?
I think it literally means any and every Christian.

Hi Who Me...

What I understand by ANY MAN is the following:

1 cor 3:5-17
5What then is Apollos? And what is Paul? Servants through whom you believed, even as the Lord gave opportunity to each one.
6I planted, Apollos watered, but God was causing the growth.
7So then neither the one who plants nor the one who waters is anything, but God who causes the growth. 8Now he who plants and he who waters are one; but each will receive his own reward according to his own labor.
9For we are God’s fellow workers; you are God’s field, God’s building.


10According to the grace of God which was given to me, like a wise master builder I laid a foundation, and another is building on it. But each man must be careful how he builds on it.
11For no man can lay a foundation other than the one which is laid, which is Jesus Christ.
12Now if any man builds on the foundation with gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, straw,
13each man’s work will become evident; for the day will show it because it is to be revealed with fire, and the fire itself will test the quality of each man’s work.
14If any man’s work which he has built on it remains, he will receive a reward.
15If any man’s work is burned up, he will suffer loss; but he himself will be saved, yet so as through fire.

16Do you not know that you are a temple of God and that the Spirit of God dwells in you?
17If any man destroys the temple of God, God will destroy him, for the temple of God is holy, and that is what you are.


WE are the temple of God. Believers are the temple of God.
If ANY MAN destroys that temple, God will destroy him.

Who can destroy the temple of God but those that teach heresies or incorrect teachings?
The verse before are speaking about the WORKERS for God...the teachers, the preachers, those that would be like Paul or Apollo. THEY are the workers - WE are God's field, we are not the workers.

I checked out some commentaries and I found this that I liked :

(17) If any man defile.—Better, If any man destroy—the opposite of “building up,” which should be the work of the Christian teacher; the architectural image being still in view.
Which temple ye are.—Literally, the which are ye, “which” referring rather to holy than to the temple; the argument being that as they are “holy” by the indwelling of God’s Spirit, therefore they are the temple of God. As God commanded the punishment of death to be inflicted on whoever defiled the actual Temple (see Exodus 28:43; Leviticus 16:2), because it was holy unto the Lord, and His presence dwelt there; so they, having the same Spirit in them, were a temple also holy unto the Lord, and God would not leave him unpunished who destroyed or marred this spiritual temple.

source: Ellicott's Commentary

 

[GodsGrace]

It is talking about ANY person's work - i.e. the fruit they produce in their own life.

I have always liked that passage. I worked at a Fundamentalist Baptist youth camp during the summer between my junior and senior years. (nice place for a pentecostal boy like me) At one of the chapel services the director preached/taught on that passage. He had such a vivid word picture that 50 years later I can still see it.

He took the "surrounded by a great crowd of witnesses" and applied it here. At the the end of time. we were all in a huge stadium like a pro football venue. One by one the angels built a house out of the works and fruit of each believer. Then the angel would torch it. All the beautiful hand rubbed oak staircases and railings burned. The straw stubble filling the luxury mattresses burned. But all of the "gold, silver and precious stones" survived the fire and was the person's heavenly reward.

So no matter how beautiful our own works are, if they are FOR the Lord but not FROM the Lord, they will burn. They will have no eternal value whatsoever.

I will always be thankful for Rev. Chuck Reed for that.

I'm sure you understand by now that I believe any man's work means the work of teachers and preachers, pastors, and anyone that adds to the knowledge of God.

I do have a question for you regarding the above.
What exactly do you mean by:
no matter how beautiful our own works are, if they are FOR the Lord but not FROM the Lord, they will burn
(highlighted above by me)

Our own works that are FOR the Lord will not burn.
All our good works are for the Lord and FROM the Lord...
How else would we have the ability to do anything for God unless He gave us the ability to?

I just don't believe we should diminish our works for God.
None of them.

 

[GodsGrace]

The people they are building into a Holy Temple.

If we teach with any other doctrine than what Christ has given, then the people will have (be) a mixture of man's teaching and Christ.


For we are God’s fellow workers; you are God’s field, you are God’s building. 1 Corinthians 3:9


Whoever transgresses and does not abide in the doctrine of Christ does not have God. He who abides in the doctrine of Christ has both the Father and the Son. 2 John 9

Sobering stuff.




JLB

I agree with you.
I think you mis-spoke your very first sentence re what you said after it.

Any Man is referring to those that work to build the temple of God.
It does not mean the temple of God, which is US...but those that build upon the work of Paul and Apollos...
Those that teach the temple of God...