Bible Study A Disputed Passage in 1 Corinthians

[GodsGrace]

Galatians 2:20 kjv
20. I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.

Revelation 3:20 kjv
20. Behold, I stand at the door, and knock: if any man hear my voice, and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me.

1 Corinthians 15:45 kjv
15. And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.

Colossians 1:29 kjv
29. Whereunto I also labour, striving according to his working, which worketh in me mightily

Mississippi redneck
eddif

Hey eddif,
Excusez moi,
but what does the above have to do with the OP??!

Not that I care much if you derail somewhat...
I just DON'T UNDERSTAND!

 

[GodsGrace]

God is a consuming Fire. Heb.12:29

2Peter3:10-18
But the Day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night, in which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the WORKS that are therein shalled be burned up. (Evil rudiments)

1Peter1:7
That the trial of your faith, being much more precious than of gold that perisheth, though it be TRIED WITH FIRE, might be found unto praise and honour and glory at the appearing of Jesus Christ.

Hi Wings of a Dove
All of the above have a reference to fire and the burning up of one thing or another.
Good catches...

BUT...how do you understand
1 Corinthians 3:5-16?

What is it speaking of
and Who is it speaking of?
What or Who is being burned up?
If it's works...Whose works?

Thanks.

 

[Wings of a dove]

Hi Wings of a Dove
All of the above have a reference to fire and the burning up of one thing or another.
Good catches...

BUT...how do you understand
1 Corinthians 3:5-16?

What is it speaking of
and Who is it speaking of?
What or Who is being burned up?
If it's works...Whose works?

Thanks.

Wondering, first this is Diane.
As stated in verse 4, some called it the gospel of Paul, some the gospel of Apollos, but it should be the gospel of Jesus Christ. He is the Rock which we build upon. Our work is to share the gospel. Like the parable of the body of Christ. You have a foot, you have a hand, different parts of the body, but One.

He is speaking to us all. Everyone has works. I believe that having faith is a work.
It states in verse13, Every mans work shall be manifest, for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire. It shall try every man's work of what sort it is.
Kinda like the parable of our fruits. Judge a tree by its fruit.
God is a consuming fire, when Jesus (God in the flesh) returns for the Millennium reign, all evil works is destroyed till Satan is loosed after the Millennium.
Like the 3 in the fiery furnace.

 

[GodsGrace]

Wondering, first this is Diane.
As stated in verse 4, some called it the gospel of Paul, some the gospel of Apollos, but it should be the gospel of Jesus Christ. He is the Rock which we build upon. Our work is to share the gospel. Like the parable of the body of Christ. You have a foot, you have a hand, different parts of the body, but One.

He is speaking to us all. Everyone has works. I believe that having faith is a work.
It states in verse13, Every mans work shall be manifest, for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire. It shall try every man's work of what sort it is.
Kinda like the parable of our fruits. Judge a tree by its fruit.
God is a consuming fire, when Jesus (God in the flesh) returns for the Millennium reign, all evil works is destroyed till Satan is loosed after the Millennium.
Like the 3 in the fiery furnace.

Hey Diane...
OK.
You're entitled and, as you might remember, I don't go on and on about a disagreement.

You do, however, make a statement that has me a bit concerned.
You state that having faith is a work.

How is having faith a work if the N.T. specifically states that it is not?

Faith comes by hearing the word of God. Romans 10:17
Is hearing a work?

The free gift of God is eternal life in Jesus. Romans 6:23
To have this life in Jesus requires faith, thus faith is a free gift.

Ephesians 2:8 Grace, faith and salvation are what is referred to as a free gift.


There's more...

 

[JLB]

I agree with you.
I think you mis-spoke your very first sentence re what you said after it.

Any Man is referring to those that work to build the temple of God.
It does not mean the temple of God, which is US...but those that build upon the work of Paul and Apollos...
Those that teach the temple of God...

Do you agree that the “work” refers to people who are being built into the Temple?

 

[Wings of a dove]

Hey Diane...
OK.
You're entitled and, as you might remember, I don't go on and on about a disagreement.

You do, however, make a statement that has me a bit concerned.
You state that having faith is a work.

How is having faith a work if the N.T. specifically states that it is not?

Faith comes by hearing the word of God. Romans 10:17
Is hearing a work?

The free gift of God is eternal life in Jesus. Romans 6:23
To have this life in Jesus requires faith, thus faith is a free gift.

Ephesians 2:8 Grace, faith and salvation are what is referred to as a free gift.


There's more...

Faith without works is dead.

 

[JLB]

It states in verse13, Every mans work shall be manifest, for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire. It shall try every man's work of what sort it is.

Yes, and by context the “work” refers to people who are the building of God; The Temple, ie God’s dwelling place.


For we are God’s fellow workers; you are God’s field, you are God’s building. 1 Corinthians 3:9


The work that will be judged on that Day is people.


For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, that each one may receive the things done in the body, according to what he has done, whether good or bad. 2 Corinthians 5:9



Jesus says it this way —


Do not marvel at this; for the hour is coming in which all who are in the graves will hear His voice and come forth—those who have done good, to the resurrection of life, and those who have done evil, to the resurrection of condemnation. John 5:28-29

• those who have done good, to the resurrection of life,
• and those who have done evil, to the resurrection of condemnation.

JLB

 

[JLB]

Faith without works is dead.

Faith without the “work” or action of obedience is dead.

The “work” that James is contextually referring to s the obedience of faith.

But do you want to know, O foolish man, that faith without works is dead? Was not Abraham our father justified by works when he offered Isaac his son on the altar? James 2:20-21


The “work” that Abraham did was to offer his Isaac on the altar in obedience to God; to God’s word.




JLB

 

[Wings of a dove]

Faith without the “work” or action of obedience is dead.

The “work” that James is contextually referring to s the obedience of faith.

But do you want to know, O foolish man, that faith without works is dead? Was not Abraham our father justified by works when he offered Isaac his son on the altar? James 2:20-21


The “work” that Abraham did was to offer his Isaac on the altar in obedience to God; to God’s word.




JLB

Yes, Ye See then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.

 

[D-D-W]

I'm sure you understand by now that I believe any man's work means the work of teachers and preachers, pastors, and anyone that adds to the knowledge of God.

I believe that to be wrong; or at least incomplete. The 5 main ministries of Ephesians 4.11 including pastors and teachers is to equip the saints (everyone who is a believer) for the WORK of service. It is those works of service that Paul is writing about.

I do have a question for you regarding the above.
What exactly do you mean by:
no matter how beautiful our own works are, if they are FOR the Lord but not FROM the Lord, they will burn
(highlighted above by me)

The difference is whether the Spirit of God inspired those works or if they were done by the person's own volition. The former are the gold silver and precious stones; while the latter are the wood hay and stubble. Take Mother Theresa. Was all of her work with the poor and ill inspired by God, or done out of her own sense of mercy and justice? If it was the latter it will burn.

 

[eddif]

Hey eddif,
Excusez moi,
but what does the above have to do with the OP??!

Not that I care much if you derail somewhat...
I just DON'T UNDERSTAND!

The OP
“What exactly are the following verses discussing?

Some take them to mean that OUR work will be judged,
and even if it is judged to be unworthy, IT (our work) will be burned up,
but WE will just make it through to heaven.

OR

Is it discussing the ministry of teaching/preaching that Paul and Apollos undertook?””
…….
We are men ( to our detriment usually)
And
Jesus works in us to accomplish the will of God.

So: we are IMHO bi-polar
A man side that will be changed at the last trump.
We were under the dominion of sf sin. Sin has lost its dominion over us who believe in the work of Jesus, but on occasion we still sin.

The good work in us is the work of Jesus, and not us.

We are changed, but not totally changed till the resurrection.

Just trying to help. I thought the Galatians 2:20 went back to the OP.

eddif

 

[eddif]

Do you agree that the “work” refers to people who are being built into the Temple?

Out comes the saws, chisels, planes, drills. Not usually on the temple site.
VS
I like the one is a hand etc.

A hand does not think like an ear, not an ear like a foot, or a kidney like a liver. We are a diverse group. To fit us into a body is an absolutely terrifying thought at times.

Here we are though. Maybe some pastor trying to understand the rest of the body of Christ. All that connective tissue that joins us together as one. The master creator understands the process, but we struggle.

Nice thought JLB

eddif

 

[JLB]

Yes, Ye See then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.

Yes, so we see that our response to God when He speaks to us, (by which we receive faith), is obedience, if we expect to be justified.


Faith must have the corresponding action of obedience, otherwise faith remains dormant, inactive, “dead” just as a body without a spirit is dead.


For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also. James 2:26


The point I was making is the “work” being mentioned here is obedience to do what God has spoken to us to do, whether offering Isaac on the altar, or giving someone without clothes something to keep warm, as the Lord moves upon us to do.


Other examples of the obedience of faith:


By faith Noah, being divinely warned of things not yet seen, moved with godly fear, prepared an ark for the saving of his household, by which he condemned the world and became heir of the righteousness which is according to faith. Hebrews 11:7


”By Faith” means God spoke to you, and you did what He inspired you, or moved upon you to do.


And suddenly, a woman who had a flow of blood for twelve years came from behind and touched the hem of His garment. For she said to herself, “If only I may touch His garment, I shall be made well.” But Jesus turned around, and when He saw her He said, “Be of good cheer, daughter; your faith has made you well.” And the woman was made well from that hour. Matthew 9:20-22





JLB

 

[Wings of a dove]

Yes, so we see that our response to God when He speaks to us, (by which we receive faith), is obedience, if we expect to be justified.


Faith must have the corresponding action of obedience, otherwise faith remains dormant, inactive, “dead” just as a body without a spirit is dead.


For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also. James 2:26


The point I was making is the “work” being mentioned here is obedience to do what God has spoken to us to do, whether offering Isaac on the altar, or giving someone without clothes something to keep warm, as the Lord moves upon us to do.


Other examples of the obedience of faith:


By faith Noah, being divinely warned of things not yet seen, moved with godly fear, prepared an ark for the saving of his household, by which he condemned the world and became heir of the righteousness which is according to faith. Hebrews 11:7


”By Faith” means God spoke to you, and you did what He inspired you, or moved upon you to do.


And suddenly, a woman who had a flow of blood for twelve years came from behind and touched the hem of His garment. For she said to herself, “If only I may touch His garment, I shall be made well.” But Jesus turned around, and when He saw her He said, “Be of good cheer, daughter; your faith has made you well.” And the woman was made well from that hour. Matthew 9:20-22





JLB

I agree with you JLB
My point that I was making to Wonder was it takes action upon your faith, as you stated obedience to your faith. Isn't that a work?

Keep the faith

 

[JLB]

I agree with you JLB
My point that I was making to Wonder was it takes action upon your faith, as you stated obedience to your faith. Isn't that a work?

Keep the faith

It’s the “work” of obedience; the obedience of faith.


Not the works of the law
Not works that earn a wage
Not good works


But now is made manifest, and by the scriptures of the prophets, according to the commandment of the everlasting God, made known to all nations for the obedience of faith: Romans 16:26



And having been perfected, He became the author of eternal salvation to all who obey Him. Hebrews 5:9




JLB

 

[Hidden In Him]

I also heard that Jesus is the fire mentioned in 1 Cor 3:13
This is because it is Jesus who will do the judging in the last day.
John 5:22 God has given judgement to the Son.
Matthew 25:31 Jesus will separate the goats from the sheep.
2 Timonty 4:1 Jesus will judge the living and the dead.

Did you ever hear this?
I agree that Jesus will be doing the judging...
but I'm not sure HE is the fire mentioned in 1 Cor 3:13

Actually no, but I'd say it is in effect correct, as per the verses Wings of a dove quoted above (Post #15). Matthew 25:31 points to that judgment coming at His return, however, so that is where I would make a distinction.

 

[Hidden In Him]

The man was ex-communicated (1 Cor 5:1...)
but was restored to fellowship (2 Cor 2:5...)
The Lord's Day would be at the end of the world.
That is my understanding.

That's correct, and it was his repentance that averted the judgment Paul spoke of in 1 Corinthians 5:1-5, where his body would have come under increasing destruction to sickness and disease until he finally did.

 

[Hidden In Him]

I agree, this passage is speaking of right now.
However, the judging of the works will be on the last day...
and the judging will be on those that taught, or in some respect built the house of God and it's occupants (us).
This is clear in verse 16...WE are the Temple of God, and no man should destroy the temple of God.

Ok, now you lost me, LoL.

 

[Hidden In Him]

The difference is whether the Spirit of God inspired those works or if they were done by the person's own volition. The former are the gold silver and precious stones; while the latter are the wood hay and stubble. Take Mother Theresa. Was all of her work with the poor and ill inspired by God, or done out of her own sense of mercy and justice? If it was the latter it will burn.

Thought about this a little, and let me ask: Weren't the people of God His temple, and the treasures in the house of God likened to His people, i.e. believers who were being fashioned into vessels of honor? (2 Timothy 2:20-22). Seems to me in this context that they would be the gold, silver, and precious stones that were being fashioned into the house whose foundation was Christ Himself.

If so, then Paul would have been saying that those we seek to save are our "workmanship," and if what we teach leads them into sin and destruction then our work will be burned up, though if we love God then we ourselves will be saved, yet as through fire.

Your thoughts?

 

[GodsGrace]

Do you agree that the “work” refers to people who are being built into the Temple?

Yes. The work is the work like Paul and Apollos were doing.
They were building the temple of God...us.
This is shown with verse 16 where Paul asks "Do you not know that YOU are a temple of God".

Verse 12 states that it is the foundation which is to be built upon...
and this by those that teach and build us up on the foundation.

Verse 13 states that this work, by each man, (that teaches and builds upon the foundation) will become evident.