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A friend asked me these questions...

P

Proximity

Guest
A friend of mine recently asked me some questions about my faith, she's mormon. I was asked;

What's to stop someone from calling upon the name of the lord to be saved, and then turn around and lead a sinful life? Would such a person be saved?

and

If you are saved by faith alone, why do good works?

i would appreciate your responces.
 
Proximity said:
A friend of mine recently asked me some questions about my faith, she's mormon. I was asked;

What's to stop someone from calling upon the name of the lord to be saved, and then turn around and lead a sinful life? Would such a person be saved?

and

If you are saved by faith alone, why do good works?

i would appreciate your responces.
Whan a person cries out to the Lord to be saved, the Holy Spirit will come and reveal the truth of the Gospel of Jesus Christ to that individual. That individual will be given the Word of God to repent from his/her way to God's way, believe in Jesus Christ as dying on the cross for his/her sins, giving them the hope of the resurrection, and following Jesus in obedience. This individual will then be born again as Jesus taught in John 3, no longer being condemned but having eternal life. It is after being born again that such a one is to mature in his/her Christian life as they build upon the foundation of Jesus Christ by walking in the Spirit. When such a one walks in the Spirit he/she builds gold, silver, and precious stones upon the foundation of Jesus Christ, when one walks in the flesh one builds wood, hay, and stubble upon the foundation of Jesus Christ, and these will be burned up with fire, but such a one will be saved. (1 Corinthians 3:11-15)

A born again believer is saved by God's grace through faith, not of works. Therefore, noone can boast that they gained salvation by keeping the law, giving alms to charitees, performing religious functions, etc. All believers are saved by grace through faith alone. After one is born again, he/she is a new creature in Christ Jesus, and this new creature is created to do good works, the works of God which is the will of God. (Ephesians 2:4-10)
 
Interesting... So the person who makes a poor foundation that perishes isn't saved, even though they've called upon the name of the lord?

And even though we are born again as a new creature, do we not still have animal and selfish desires? What of the man who is born again, yet gives in and only wishes to fullfil his own needs, why should he help others?
 
Proximity said:
Interesting... So the person who makes a poor foundation that perishes isn't saved, even though they've called upon the name of the lord?

And even though we are born again as a new creature, do we not still have animal and selfish desires? What of the man who is born again, yet gives in and only wishes to fullfil his own needs, why should he help others?
If they are not born again, they do not have the foundation of Jesus Christ to build upon, therefore, they are condemned already. Those who are born again have Jesus Christ as their foundation and they have the choice of walking in the corrupt, mortal flesh; or to walk in the new born again spirit created at the conversion. A believer is free to do all things, but all things are not profitable to him/her. If a believer continues in sin, he will be chastized by God, and it could lead to a very dismal life and/or physical death; but the new creature which was born anew will be saved.
 
Proximity said:
A friend of mine recently asked me some questions about my faith, she's mormon. I was asked;
What's to stop someone from calling upon the name of the lord to be saved, and then turn around and lead a sinful life? Would such a person be saved?
and
If you are saved by faith alone, why do good works?
i would appreciate your responces.

If a ladder helps a person escape from a burning building, what will stop them from running back into the flames? If they run back in, are they still saved from the fire? If you are saved by the ladder placed before you to the top of the burning building that you are hanging out of, do you have to climb down it to be saved?

You are saved from sin by the blood of Christ, that washes it away when you repent and confess it. If you run back into sin after you have been washed, are you still clean?
:-? this is not so hard, is it?
 
unred typo said:
If a ladder helps a person escape from a burning building, what will stop them from running back into the flames? If they run back in, are they still saved from the fire? If you are saved by the ladder placed before you to the top of the burning building that you are hanging out of, do you have to climb down it to be saved?

You are saved from sin by the blood of Christ, that washes it away when you repent and confess it. If you run back into sin after you have been washed, are you still clean?
:-? this is not so hard, is it?
Your analogy is faulty in that it uses an inanimate, incable object for saving one in a fire.

Jesus Christ saved one from a fire by wrapping him up in His own blood, sealing the one up with the Holy Spirit, promised to keep him until the redemption to enter into the one's new home with a sinless, incorruptable, immortal body.

Those who are born again, can not be unborn from being a child of God. Anyone who would believe that a born again child of God could lose the security that one has in the blood of Christ, does not understand the power of God Almighty. Of course, you show that continually by your misundstanding of God's character with your Open Theism beliefs.
 
Solo, i'd like to see some scripture to back up your argument. It seems valid enough but i'd like to see some bible in it.

What if someone no longer wishes to be saved? Are they still saved? If so doesn't that conflict with free will?
 
Proximity said:
Solo, i'd like to see some scripture to back up your argument. It seems valid enough but i'd like to see some bible in it.

He’d like to see some, too. Since there is none, he has to fabricate it from bits and pieces of chapters and verses. :roll:
 
Proximity said:
Solo, i'd like to see some scripture to back up your argument. It seems valid enough but i'd like to see some bible in it.

What if someone no longer wishes to be saved? Are they still saved? If so doesn't that conflict with free will?

1 Peter 1:2 -- “Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace unto you, and peace, be multiplied.â€Â

Election is unto obedience.

To quote from Mounce's Basics of Biblical Greek, "When Paul writes to the Ephesians that it is 'by grace you have been saved though faith, and this is not of yourselves; it is gift from God' (Eph. 2:8), what does 'it' refer to?"

The footnote gives the answer: "The whole process of salvation, which includes our faith."

The Bible, the Greek itself, tells us that faith is apart of salvation and the Holy Spirit thru Paul lists faith as a gift of the Holy Spirit. The Bible tells us in these two passages that faith is a gift of the Spirit, the burden is on those who believe different, to try and prove otherwise. But this can't be done.

~JM~
 
JM said:
1 Peter 1:2 -- “Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace unto you, and peace, be multiplied.â€Â
Election is unto obedience.
To quote from Mounce's Basics of Biblical Greek, "When Paul writes to the Ephesians that it is 'by grace you have been saved though faith, and this is not of yourselves; it is gift from God' (Eph. 2:8), what does 'it' refer to?"

The footnote gives the answer: "The whole process of salvation, which includes our faith."

The Bible, the Greek itself, tells us that faith is apart of salvation and the Holy Spirit thru Paul lists faith as a gift of the Holy Spirit. The Bible tells us in these two passages that faith is a gift of the Spirit, the burden is on those who believe different, to try and prove otherwise. But this can't be done. ~JM~

The whole process of salvation is indeed a gift. It is not deserved nor earned. You can’t buy it or beg it or demand it. It is by God’s mercy and grace that he allows us to be elected unto salvation by obedience to his Son. Do you think it matters to God whether you are obedient or not? Is it going to ruin his day if you refuse to follow the message of Christ to be saved? You are less than a germ in the whole scheme of things. What is truly amazing is that he allows us the supreme privilege and honor to be his bond slaves. If we follow and obey, even more amazing is the promise that he will make us his children and take us to heaven to live with him there.

Faith is believing God’s promises, pure and simple. This is a gift because it is his faithfulness in showing us that he can be trusted to do what he has promised that enables us to trust him more. If he wasn’t faithful to do what he said, we could not trust him and have faith in him.

Why do you turn everything into some mucky muck theological equation? It’s simple. It’s real. It’s real simple.
:fadein:
 
1 Peter 1:2 -- “Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace unto you, and peace, be multiplied.â€Â

Election is unto obedience.

To quote from Mounce's Basics of Biblical Greek, "When Paul writes to the Ephesians that it is 'by grace you have been saved though faith, and this is not of yourselves; it is gift from God' (Eph. 2:8), what does 'it' refer to?"

The footnote gives the answer: "The whole process of salvation, which includes our faith."

The Bible, the Greek itself, tells us that faith is apart of salvation and the Holy Spirit thru Paul lists faith as a gift of the Holy Spirit. The Bible tells us in these two passages that faith is a gift of the Spirit, the burden is on those who believe different, to try and prove otherwise. But this can't be done.

~JM~
 
Proximity said:
A friend of mine recently asked me some questions about my faith, she's mormon. I was asked;

What's to stop someone from calling upon the name of the lord to be saved, and then turn around and lead a sinful life? Would such a person be saved?

and

If you are saved by faith alone, why do good works?

i would appreciate your responces.
Prox...heres a good article that adresses some of your questions:

If we accept Jesus as Savior, can we then sin all we want?
http://www.carm.org/questions/accept_Jesus.htm

Being saved is not accomplished by reciting a few special words. We do not say a magic phrase and become saved. We do not merely say, "Jesus please forgive me" and suddenly all of our sins are automatically wiped away simply because we uttered a special sentence. It isn't a formula for salvation or an incantation that somehow cleanses us and then permits us go out and sin. The Bible says, "What shall we say then? Are we to continue in sin that grace might increase? May it never be! How shall we who died to sin still live in it?" (Rom. 6:1-2). Unfortunately, there are those who accuse the Christians of having a license to sin. To this, the Bible says, "And why not say (as we are slanderously reported and as some affirm that we say), “Let us do evil that good may come� Their condemnation is just," (Rom. 3:8). Notice that Paul says that those who accuse the Christians of doing evil are being slanderous.
On the contrary, salvation is an appeal to God for cleansing from sin, forgiveness, and repentance so that we might not sin. This appeal is a heartfelt confession of our hopelessness before God and an acceptance of Jesus' sacrifice on our behalf. It is simultaneous with sincere repentance which is a turning from sin, not to it.
To receive Jesus in our hearts mean we have first acknowledged that we are sinners and that we are incapable of saving ourselves or of appeasing God in any way. We acknowledge before God that we are helpless and worthy of damnation. But with this, we also acknowledge that Jesus is the one who paid the penalty for our sins. We realize that there is no possible way that we can make things right with God by our own works. When we accept Jesus as our Savior we are accepting the call to repentance from sin. God then calls us His children: "But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, even to those who believe in His name," (John 1:12).

New Creatures

Furthermore, when we receive Christ, we are regenerated; we are changed; we are born again. This means that there is something different about us. Something has happened to us. This is why Jesus said, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God," (John 3:3). To be born again means that something new has happened in us. This "something" is the change in us that is the result of regeneration. "Therefore if any man is in Christ, he is a new creature; the old things passed away; behold, new things have come," (2 Cor. 5:17). The old things were the sinful passions and desires. Our enslavement to them is broken when we are born again. Furthermore, once we are born again, we are no longer our own and we are in dwelt by the Holy Spirit who convicts us of our sins, “And He, when He comes, will convict the world concerning sin, and righteousness, and judgment," (John 16:8). This conviction of sins occurs in the believer and is a method that the Lord uses to help us stop sinning. We are not saved so that we are free to go out and do that which is wrong. We are saved so that we might bring glory to God and demonstrate the work of regeneration in us as we turned from our sinful ways. This is why it says in Rom. 6:1-2, "What shall we say then? Are we to continue in sin that grace might increase? 2 May it never be! How shall we who died to sin still live in it?" And also, "What then? Shall we sin because we are not under law but under grace? May it never be!" (Rom. 6:15). And again, "Whatever you do, do all to the glory of God," (1 Cor. 10:31). How can we bring glory to God by going out and sinning? We cannot. In fact, to anyone who says that he is a Christian and then continues in his sins without seeking repentance and without conviction is a liar. The Bible clearly states, "The one who says, “I have come to know Him,†and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him; 5 but whoever keeps His word, in him the love of God has truly been perfected. By this we know that we are in Him: 6 the one who says he abides in Him ought himself to walk in the same manner as He walked," (1 John 2:4-6).
The Bible says that Jesus bore our sins in his body on the cross (1 Pet. 2:24) and that salvation is a free gift we receive by faith (Rom. 6:23; Eph. 2:8-9). When we accept Jesus, we are accepting the sacrifice of Jesus for our sins, by faith. We are trusting Jesus alone for salvation. When we do this, the Holy Spirit lives in us. Since the Holy Spirit convicts of sin, righteousness, and judgment (John 16:8) we then seek to please God and avoid sin. It is a natural result of being saved.
So no, accepting Jesus does not mean that we can then go out and sin. It means we have turned from sin and we are new creatures who desire to bring glory to God and not use the grace of God to sin.


SCRIPTURES QUOTED

"What shall we say then? Are we to continue in sin that grace might increase? May it never be! How shall we who died to sin still live in it?" (Rom. 6:1-2).
"For the sorrow that is according to the will of God produces a repentance without regret, leading to salvation; but the sorrow of the world produces death," (2 Cor. 7:10).
"with gentleness correcting those who are in opposition, if perhaps God may grant them repentance leading to the knowledge of the truth," (2 Tim. 2:25).
"But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, even to those who believe in His name," (John 1:12).
"and He Himself bore our sins in His body on the cross, that we might die to sin and live to righteousness; for by His wounds you were healed." (1 Pet. 2:24).
"For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord," (Rom. 6:23).
"For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God; not as a result of works, that no one should boast," (Eph. 2:8-9).
"And He, when He comes, will convict the world concerning sin, and righteousness, and judgment," (John 16:8).
 
Proximity said:
Solo, i'd like to see some scripture to back up your argument. It seems valid enough but i'd like to see some bible in it.

What if someone no longer wishes to be saved? Are they still saved? If so doesn't that conflict with free will?
Unless one is born of the flesh AND the SPIRIT on cannot SEE or ENTER the Kingdom of God.

3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God. John 3:3

5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. 6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. 7 Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again. 8 The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit. John 3:5-8

After one becomes born again, he/she is sealed by the Holy Spirit as an earnest payment until the purchased possesion is redeemed. Note this significant teaching in the following verse.

10 That in the dispensation of the fulness of times he might gather together in one all things in Christ, both which are in heaven, and which are on earth; even in him: 11 In whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his own will:12 That we should be to the praise of his glory, who first trusted in Christ. 13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise, 14 Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory. Ephesians 1:10-14

Why do some hear these things and some do not? Because these things must be revealed to each of us by the Holy Spirit. Those that are born again have the Holy Spirit dwelling within them. Those that do not have the Holy Spirit cannot understand the spiritual things of God for they are only born of the flesh (natural), and not of the Spirit.

14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned. 1 Corinthians 2:14

Those that reject Christ Jesus have the spirit of antichrist, not the Holy Spirit. They have never been born again, for if they had been born again, they would have remained abiding in Christ Jesus.

18 Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time. 19 They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would no doubt have continued with us: but they went out, that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us. 1 John 2:18-19
 
Solo said:
Unless one is born of the flesh AND the SPIRIT on cannot SEE or ENTER the Kingdom of God.

You are incorrect in your estimation of what it means to see and enter the kingdom of God in these verses. Jesus is talking about the actual arrival of the soul to the heavenly kingdom and presence of God upon his throne. The very fact that he assumes that Nicodemus should understand these truths, even though the Pharisees were often reprimanded for being blind guides, shows that Jesus expected he would grasp these things even if he refused to accept them. The plain implication is that he should have known these things. You do not have to be born again to understand the gospel or be born again to submit to the leadership of the Holy Spirit. You must be born again to walk the streets of gold and live with God in his heavenly realms, however.

You are creating the false illusion of a barrier to the simple gospel that Jesus said even a child can comprehend. The common people received his word gladly. One does not need the secret decoder ring to follow the plain teaching of Christ. All one needs is a willing heart, a teachable mind and a repentant spirit.
 
unred typo said:
You are incorrect in your estimation of what it means to see and enter the kingdom of God in these verses. Jesus is talking about the actual arrival of the soul to the heavenly kingdom and presence of God upon his throne. The very fact that he assumes that Nicodemus should understand these truths, even though the Pharisees were often reprimanded for being blind guides, shows that Jesus expected he would grasp these things even if he refused to accept them. The plain implication is that he should have known these things. You do not have to be born again to understand the gospel or be born again to submit to the leadership of the Holy Spirit. You must be born again to walk the streets of gold and live with God in his heavenly realms, however.

You are creating the false illusion of a barrier to the simple gospel that Jesus said even a child can comprehend. The common people received his word gladly. One does not need the secret decoder ring to follow the plain teaching of Christ. All one needs is a willing heart, a teachable mind and a repentant spirit.
Now I understand the cause of your dillusional statements concerning the salvation of a beliver; you are not born again, and because of not being born again, you are still a natural man not understanding the spiritual things of God, just as Paul taught in 1 Corinthians 2:14.

Let me know when you are born again so that we can rejoice together when you can see the Kingdom of God. I will keep you in my prayers, dear one.
 
Solo said:
Now I understand the cause of your dillusional statements concerning the salvation of a beliver; you are not born again, and because of not being born again, you are still a natural man not understanding the spiritual things of God, just as Paul taught in 1 Corinthians 2:14.

Let me know when you are born again so that we can rejoice together when you can see the Kingdom of God. I will keep you in my prayers, dear one.

When I can speak other languages fluently, be unaffected by deadly poison, heal the sick and raise the dead, I’ll get back to you on that. According to your definition, I am already. I have no desire to party down with you over this minute milestone in my Christian walk, for there are miles to go and there are many dangers, toils and temptations to overcome before I can say I’ve finished the course.

Thank you for your kind thoughts and prayers, however.
 
unred typo said:
When I can speak other languages fluently, be unaffected by deadly poison, heal the sick and raise the dead, I’ll get back to you on that. According to your definition, I am already. I have no desire to party down with you over this minute milestone in my Christian walk, for there are miles to go and there are many dangers, toils and temptations to overcome before I can say I’ve finished the course.

Thank you for your kind thoughts and prayers, however.

Where's your Scripture?
 
I have not attained to the level of a grain of mustard seed of faith in my belief. I am not going to worry about it since I have committed this to him and he is strengthening my belief as I see him work all things for good in my life, and I trust him more with each test and challenge to my miniscule faith.

Mark 16:16-18
16He that believes and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believes not shall be damned.
17And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues;
18They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover.

Mark 16:20
And they went forth, and preached every where, the Lord working with them, and confirming the word with signs following. Amen.

John 14:12
Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believes on me, the works that I do shall he do also; and greater works than these shall he do; because I go unto my Father.

Matthew 21:22
And all things, whatsoever you shall ask in prayer, believing, you shall receive.
 
Solo, feel free to ignore unred who lives up to his name. I've already offered prove that faith is a gift of God and he couldn't and wouldn't deal with it.
 
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