This may get me into trouble, for I know not everyone may agree with this....but..... please check it out.
http://www.openmyeyeslord.net/UltimateFreedom.htm
http://www.openmyeyeslord.net/UltimateFreedom.htm
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A Gentle Reminder Of How We Became Who We Are
- Thread starter LostSoul
- Start date
While I am not suggesting we base our theology on a bumper sticker - I did have this one on my car for sometime:
"God Bless the Whole World, No Exceptions".
Has God given this country blessings, of course. But not necessarily any more so than any other country. Is the Haitian Christian any less blessed, because she is in Haiti and not the United States? Is the Soviet Christian and less blessed? Was the Roman Christian any less blessed?
No.
Let's not mix the spiritual with the political. Let's not celebrate our perceived exceptionalism, believing it to be divine blessings.
"God Bless the Whole World, No Exceptions".
Has God given this country blessings, of course. But not necessarily any more so than any other country. Is the Haitian Christian any less blessed, because she is in Haiti and not the United States? Is the Soviet Christian and less blessed? Was the Roman Christian any less blessed?
No.
Let's not mix the spiritual with the political. Let's not celebrate our perceived exceptionalism, believing it to be divine blessings.
The purpose of this thread was to remind a number of us that America was founded on the want for Religious Freedom. We have since been fighting to have or maintain a number of other freedoms that have been had in addition to that. Freedom is not something to come without a price. Christ, Himself, was the original prover of that. Jesus freed us from the bonds of sin, which the price of that was Death.
Never once in here did I imply that the U.S. of A was any more blessed than anywhere else. Nor any people...so please do not twist my words around.
Thank you....
Never once in here did I imply that the U.S. of A was any more blessed than anywhere else. Nor any people...so please do not twist my words around.
Thank you....
LostLamb said:
I did not intend to twist your words. I was responding to the link provided in your post.
However, I do take one exception to the notion that the United States was founded for "religious freedom" - if you look at the original thirteen colonies you will notice that some of the original colonies had restrictions as to which forms of Christianity could be practiced.
If I may expand on your thoughts about Freedom, though. You are correct, Freedom does come with a price - Christ willingly paid the price for our Freedom - His glory is that He, and only He, could conquer death through the resurrection.
Our "freedoms" that we hold dear, and ultimately found and paid for through Christ. We are Free, because Christ has set us Free. Regardless of the political structure, Christians are free not because politics grants us freedom, but because Christ has.
LostLamb said:
Amen LostLamb! A very touching and heart felt sentiment is that slide show you linked up in the OP. Thank you for sharing it!
[attachment=1:157holtc]BenFranklin_GodGovernsAffairsOfMen.JPG[/attachment:157holtc]
[attachment=0:157holtc]In God We Trust.jpg[/attachment:157holtc]
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Mennonite,
It is impossible to not do that.
Every form of governing/political body is formed out of an ideology based upon a spiritual principle. Every civil government is based upon some religion or philosophy of life. Even the atheist, the agnostic, the secular, etc., bases their philosophy of life upon a spiritual ideology, a spiritual virtue of one sort or another, be it of those that lead to a consequences.
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Menno said:
Mennonite,
It is impossible to not do that.
Every form of governing/political body is formed out of an ideology based upon a spiritual principle. Every civil government is based upon some religion or philosophy of life. Even the atheist, the agnostic, the secular, etc., bases their philosophy of life upon a spiritual ideology, a spiritual virtue of one sort or another, be it of those that lead to a consequences.
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Relic said:
I would suggest that there is a proper way to mix. Yes, I understand that the political draws from the spiritual.... however, that does not mean that the spiritual should draw from the political. In our western theology, too much ideology (nationalism) and crept into our theology.
Ideology should borrow from theology, theology should not borrow from ideology. Hence, let's not mix the spiritual with the political.
Menno said:
Menno,
Just so you know...politics is not what influenced this thread. It was simply the message I received in that song and the imagery. God can use all things to His grand purpose and design. Too many times too have I felt our Veterans and the like called cruel names by those of us who have not seen or known war personally. For even some of the men closest to God's heart did some horrid things, yet did God love them any less?
Not that I am saying killing someone is alright. It is not. What I was trying to convey here is that Freedom in the U.S. was something wanted because of a desired freedom of faith. That is all. I understand if you feel that message poorly displayed by the link I shared. That is fine.
However, that does not mean that I or certain others here necessarily allow politics to influence their faith. For some actually it is quite the oposite, it is their faith who helps them decide with whom they should place their votes or what bills they agree with or do not.
That is all....
.
Here is a copy of the poem that was featured in that flash slideshow.
ULTIMATE FREEDOM
Enriched by our Father, whose Son gave us life,
In Him we have Freedom, eternity without strife.
A country was founded, on the Father above.
A vision, with a plan to live; a way of sharing His love.
The faith of our forefathers, husbands, brothers and sons,
Who fought to the death, until the battle was won.
We watched them fight bravely, give their lives to be free,
For the proud land they loved, and for their families
This country was founded on the love of our God.
We structured our existence, on this land that we trod.
God shielded and blessed us, giving His tender care.
He gave us resources with others to share.
But man in his false pride had forgotten the day,
That God blessed and guided this freedom our way.
As man turned his back, and greed brought our downfall,
Some wondered why God had deserted us all.
God in Heaven forgive us, bring us back to our home,
With You as our Father as You sit on Your throne.
Lead us away, Lord, from the fight for no gain.
We can’t win the battle unless we fight in Your name.
For You ARE the Victory, You made us all free,
You sent us the Weapon, and He died on a tree.
The greatest provision any country can claim,
Is the ultimate freedom, from Jesus’ sweet name.
We fall to our knees, and we ask Your light shine,
On the Cross and Old Glory, together one more time.
It was You led the battle, of the wars that were won,
With the lives of our husbands, fathers, brothers and sons.
This world holds no honor, not one thing that is true,
But You are the Justice, our faith rests in You.
Let us stand fast in Liberty, One Nation under God.
Our Ultimate freedom, paid with Jesus’ sweet blood.
Written for FBC Dennis - 2008 Ladies’ Conference
By Karen Bunker - April 15, 2008
.
Here is a copy of the poem that was featured in that flash slideshow.
ULTIMATE FREEDOM
Enriched by our Father, whose Son gave us life,
In Him we have Freedom, eternity without strife.
A country was founded, on the Father above.
A vision, with a plan to live; a way of sharing His love.
The faith of our forefathers, husbands, brothers and sons,
Who fought to the death, until the battle was won.
We watched them fight bravely, give their lives to be free,
For the proud land they loved, and for their families
This country was founded on the love of our God.
We structured our existence, on this land that we trod.
God shielded and blessed us, giving His tender care.
He gave us resources with others to share.
But man in his false pride had forgotten the day,
That God blessed and guided this freedom our way.
As man turned his back, and greed brought our downfall,
Some wondered why God had deserted us all.
God in Heaven forgive us, bring us back to our home,
With You as our Father as You sit on Your throne.
Lead us away, Lord, from the fight for no gain.
We can’t win the battle unless we fight in Your name.
For You ARE the Victory, You made us all free,
You sent us the Weapon, and He died on a tree.
The greatest provision any country can claim,
Is the ultimate freedom, from Jesus’ sweet name.
We fall to our knees, and we ask Your light shine,
On the Cross and Old Glory, together one more time.
It was You led the battle, of the wars that were won,
With the lives of our husbands, fathers, brothers and sons.
This world holds no honor, not one thing that is true,
But You are the Justice, our faith rests in You.
Let us stand fast in Liberty, One Nation under God.
Our Ultimate freedom, paid with Jesus’ sweet blood.
Written for FBC Dennis - 2008 Ladies’ Conference
By Karen Bunker - April 15, 2008
.
.
Some comments from Karen Bunker, writer of the Poem back in 2008:
by hisheart on Thu Jul 03, 2008 4:16 pm
Dearest Ellen,
First of all, let me tell you how happy I am to meet you. I appreciate your sweet words and I am very glad that it touched you the way that it did. This poem was a project that I was ASKED to write for an upcoming Christian Ladies' Conferrence in our area. The Pastor's wife of the church where it will be held, asks me every year (this is my 4th) to write a poem around the theme of the Conference. When I heard that this one was going to be patriot in nature, I actually cringed. I had no idea what to write.
Why I ever let that bother me, I will never understand. It is God's Spirit within each of us who write for Him, that does the work. What we have to do is learn to listen. This poem was almost instantaneous. He gave me a scripture from which to work and started giving me the words. It flowed like the water from the throne of God. I was so shocked when I finished it, I could not believe that it came from my pen.
You are right, our country, and yours also it seems, had better turn back, fall on our knees and pray to God above to restore our hearts, our dedicaiton, or our country to the standards, upon which they were first established. We are doing everything against His name and leaving Him out of everything we once held sacred. This country is in for a great fall. There is a great wrath to come and God WILL withdraw His blessings from America just like He has others.
I am saddened by the state that our Country and we, as Americans, are in. One day soon, things will change quickly. As Christians, we have the "HOPE" of Jesus Christ, who died for us. His salvation is free and ours for the asking. Unbelievers are in for a sad surprise. Oh, how I wish that America would see and heed the warnings that surround us daily. Only Christ has the key to our eternal salvation and freedom. Thank you again for your comments. I hope we can get to know each other better in the future.
God bless you,
Karen
hisheart
source: sendcheers.com
========
========
More comments from a person who wrote to Karen about her disabled veteran husband, and Karen's reply to her :
by ImSaved2 on Fri Jul 04, 2008 5:37 pm
What a beautiful poem of patriotism! As the wife of a disabled American veteran who served in a war, I so well understand the price our soldiers pay. Many of them are still making that sacrafice today. And where has our respect and love of country gone? As I have stood and sang the National Anthem at sporting events and before fireworks shows it saddens me to see the lack of respect. So many take for granted the fact that people have died so that they can enjoy the freedom to disrespect their country! It is that same freedom that has allowed so many to turn their backs on God. Oh, yes! Someday we will all pay the price. We need to humble ourselves, pray, and seek God's face. It is the only way!
------------------
by hisheart on Fri Jul 04, 2008 6:33 pm
Dear Jeanette,
Many of our loved ones have served this country and sacrificed their lives or lost the use of limbs in the process of defending our freedoms. We take things so for granted because we don't know what it is like to live in a country with little or no freedom of choice.
Just like our Savior who sacrificed His life for the free choice we make for forgiveness, so do our brave soldiers give up their lives daily in order to maintain our freedom of choice. God has blessed this country because we loved and honored Him. Never has a country backslidden more than during this time.
I pray that Americans will begin today to realize the love that was born when this country was founded and placed under the protective love of our God. Many, like your own husband, have sacrificed much to keep us free. What will happen to her if we continue to turn our backs on the One and only true and living God of the Universe?
What will it take for us to turn back to God? How many times do we have to live through the terrors of 9-11? God forgive us..........HIS WAY IS OUR ONLY HOPE!
IF WE WANT GOD TO BLESS AMERICA, THEN AMERICA MUST BLESS GOD BY HONORING HIM!
Thank you so much for your very touching comments, Jeanette. It is so nice to have you at Nethugs.
Love you,
Karen
hisheart
------------------
by ImSaved2 on Fri Jul 04, 2008 6:51 pm
You could not have said it better! Hurry Lord come quick! Just like in the days of Noah. But it's people like you that give me hope! A few righteous people still remain on earth!
Be completely humble and gentle; be patient, bearing with one another in love. Eph. 4:2
source: sendsheers.com
.
Some comments from Karen Bunker, writer of the Poem back in 2008:
by hisheart on Thu Jul 03, 2008 4:16 pm
Dearest Ellen,
First of all, let me tell you how happy I am to meet you. I appreciate your sweet words and I am very glad that it touched you the way that it did. This poem was a project that I was ASKED to write for an upcoming Christian Ladies' Conferrence in our area. The Pastor's wife of the church where it will be held, asks me every year (this is my 4th) to write a poem around the theme of the Conference. When I heard that this one was going to be patriot in nature, I actually cringed. I had no idea what to write.
Why I ever let that bother me, I will never understand. It is God's Spirit within each of us who write for Him, that does the work. What we have to do is learn to listen. This poem was almost instantaneous. He gave me a scripture from which to work and started giving me the words. It flowed like the water from the throne of God. I was so shocked when I finished it, I could not believe that it came from my pen.
You are right, our country, and yours also it seems, had better turn back, fall on our knees and pray to God above to restore our hearts, our dedicaiton, or our country to the standards, upon which they were first established. We are doing everything against His name and leaving Him out of everything we once held sacred. This country is in for a great fall. There is a great wrath to come and God WILL withdraw His blessings from America just like He has others.
I am saddened by the state that our Country and we, as Americans, are in. One day soon, things will change quickly. As Christians, we have the "HOPE" of Jesus Christ, who died for us. His salvation is free and ours for the asking. Unbelievers are in for a sad surprise. Oh, how I wish that America would see and heed the warnings that surround us daily. Only Christ has the key to our eternal salvation and freedom. Thank you again for your comments. I hope we can get to know each other better in the future.
God bless you,
Karen
hisheart
source: sendcheers.com
========
========
More comments from a person who wrote to Karen about her disabled veteran husband, and Karen's reply to her :
by ImSaved2 on Fri Jul 04, 2008 5:37 pm
What a beautiful poem of patriotism! As the wife of a disabled American veteran who served in a war, I so well understand the price our soldiers pay. Many of them are still making that sacrafice today. And where has our respect and love of country gone? As I have stood and sang the National Anthem at sporting events and before fireworks shows it saddens me to see the lack of respect. So many take for granted the fact that people have died so that they can enjoy the freedom to disrespect their country! It is that same freedom that has allowed so many to turn their backs on God. Oh, yes! Someday we will all pay the price. We need to humble ourselves, pray, and seek God's face. It is the only way!
------------------
by hisheart on Fri Jul 04, 2008 6:33 pm
Dear Jeanette,
Many of our loved ones have served this country and sacrificed their lives or lost the use of limbs in the process of defending our freedoms. We take things so for granted because we don't know what it is like to live in a country with little or no freedom of choice.
Just like our Savior who sacrificed His life for the free choice we make for forgiveness, so do our brave soldiers give up their lives daily in order to maintain our freedom of choice. God has blessed this country because we loved and honored Him. Never has a country backslidden more than during this time.
I pray that Americans will begin today to realize the love that was born when this country was founded and placed under the protective love of our God. Many, like your own husband, have sacrificed much to keep us free. What will happen to her if we continue to turn our backs on the One and only true and living God of the Universe?
What will it take for us to turn back to God? How many times do we have to live through the terrors of 9-11? God forgive us..........HIS WAY IS OUR ONLY HOPE!
IF WE WANT GOD TO BLESS AMERICA, THEN AMERICA MUST BLESS GOD BY HONORING HIM!
Thank you so much for your very touching comments, Jeanette. It is so nice to have you at Nethugs.
Love you,
Karen
hisheart
------------------
by ImSaved2 on Fri Jul 04, 2008 6:51 pm
You could not have said it better! Hurry Lord come quick! Just like in the days of Noah. But it's people like you that give me hope! A few righteous people still remain on earth!
Be completely humble and gentle; be patient, bearing with one another in love. Eph. 4:2
source: sendsheers.com
.
