[__ Science __ ] A Hill to Die On

[journeymanisnothing]

No. He is wholly God and wholly man. Jesus appeared to the Apostles as a man, showing them that He was the man they knew and followed. This doesn't mean that He isn't a spirit. We might not understand how He can be completely God and completely man but that is what He is.

Barbarian:
Not a physical image, because as Jesus says God is a spirit. And Jesus said that a spirit has no body.

A spirit has no body but Jesus is a spirit with a body is just double talk

Actually, Christs' body is his Temple. So is every human body.

 

[Barbarian]

A spirit has no body but Jesus is a spirit with a body is just double talk

Jesus being wholly God and wholly man is a mystery for us. But Jesus says a spirit has no body. I believe Him. You should, too.

 

[Barbarian]

A spirit has no body but Jesus is a spirit with a body is just double talk

Jesus being wholly God and wholly man is a mystery for us. But Jesus says a spirit has no body. I believe Him. You should, too.

That's fine. Aslong as Christians understand that Jesus is the descendant of Adam who lived about 4000 thousand years ago.

4000 thousand years is 4 million years. Which would be very roughly the appearance of the first humans. But how long ago Adam lived is not part of Christian belief.

 

[journeymanisnothing]

Jesus being wholly God and wholly man is a mystery for us. But Jesus says a spirit has no body. I believe Him. You should, too.

I guess you ignored my point about how all humans have spirits and therefore Jesus said a spirit (ghost, human who died) has no body. Jesus kept his body to prove his defeat of death, his eternal nature and power over all things.

And when we come to understand that Jesus had this authority before he died, this is the key to unlocking all scripture. It's the key of David.

 

[journeymanisnothing]

4000 thousand years is 4 million years. Which would be very roughly the appearance of the first humans.

Adam was the first man. Eve was the 1st woman. All humans came from them. The Bible plainly says this, no matter who thinks contrary.

But how long ago Adam lived is not part of Christian belief.

It is to me. How our Savior was born and from who he was born is no myth.

 

[Barbarian]

Adam was the first man. Eve was the 1st woman. All humans came from them. The Bible plainly says this, no matter who thinks contrary.

Yes. If they were H. erectus rather than H. sapiens, and gave rise to our species, would that bother you?

But how long ago Adam lived is not part of Christian belief.

It is to me.

Which is fine. Your salvation doesn't depend on it.

How our Savior was born and from who he was born is no myth.

Correct.

 

[Barbarian]

I guess you ignored my point about how all humans have spirits and therefore Jesus said a spirit (ghost, human who died) has no body.

Your spirit is not a body.

Jesus kept his body to prove his defeat of death, his eternal nature and power over all things.

Yes.

And when we come to understand that Jesus had this authority before he died,

He is God, after all.

 

[journeymanisnothing]

Btw Barbarian,
I saw these astronomers on tv last night. Their gist was that the universe is billions of years old because of light travel time. Their assumption was that everything started from a "singularity. One "point" or "spot", in ingnorant laymans terms.

How impersonal. But why should it matter?
All the Bible says is that when God spoke the stars into existence, he set them where they are and directed their course,

Then the LORD answered Job out of the whirlwind, and said, Who is this that darkeneth counsel by words without knowledge..... Canst thou bind the sweet influences of Pleiades, or loose the bands of Orion? Canst thou bring forth Mazzaroth in his season? or canst thou guide Arcturus with his sons? Knowest thou the ordinances of heaven? canst thou set the dominion thereof in the earth?
Job.38:1-2,31-33

But they said if God caused light to reach earth immediately then God is dishonest....
cause light must do what I say.....right????

 

[journeymanisnothing]

Yes. If they were H. erectus rather than H. sapiens, and gave rise to our species, would that bother you?

Yes it would, because it would make Gods' word of how Adam and Eve were the 1st and gave rise to all other humans untrue.

But how long ago Adam lived is not part of Christian belief.

Christian belief is defined by what the Bible says, not by what evolutionists say. I believe what God says.

Barbarian:
Which is fine. Your salvation doesn't depend on it.

Salvation depends wholly on Gods' word being true. That's a fact.

Did you know that if Gods' word wasn't true, Jesus wouldn't have had to fulfill his promise to show all mankind the love of God?

thinkest thou that I cannot now call upon my Father, and he will furnish me more than twelve legions of angels? How then should the scriptures be fulfilled that thus it must be? Mt.26:23-24

 

[Barbarian]

Yes it would, because it would make Gods' word of how Adam and Eve were the 1st and gave rise to all other humans untrue.

If they were H. erectus they could well have given rise to all other humans living today.

Christian belief is defined by what the Bible says,

Not by what creationists say. I believe God. And I don't feel the need to add to His word to make it fit my own wishes.
Your salvation doesn't depend on what you believe about how long ago Adam lived.

Salvation depends wholly on Gods' word being true.

But it doesn't depend wholly on your interpretation or my interpretation being true. That's a fact.
It depends entirely on whether you love God and love your fellow man enough to show it by your actions. Creationists are no less Christian than the rest of us. And no less likely to be saved, so long as they do as Jesus commanded.

 

[Barbarian]

I saw these astronomers on tv last night. Their gist was that the universe is billions of years old because of light travel time. Their assumption was that everything started from a "singularity. One "point" or "spot", in ingnorant laymans terms.

How impersonal. But why should it matter?

Doesn't matter at all to our salvation. God did it His way. I can only believe that He did it right.

But they said if God caused light to reach earth immediately then God is dishonest....

Yes, that would be a problem. Here's why. We see, from time to time a distant supernova go off. A star blowing it self out of existence. Many of them are hundreds of thousands or millions of light years away. Which means that if God created light on the way to the Earth, He's showing us an image of a star that never existed. Since God is not deceptive, that is not a possibility.

 

[journeymanisnothing]

If they were H. erectus they could well have given rise to all other humans living today.

Brother,
I'm not interested in different shaped humans that came after Adam, or extinct apes which science has mistaken for humans.

Not by what creationists say. I believe God. And I don't feel the need to add to His word to make it fit my own wishes.

You've just described evolution perfectly, because I haven't added to or subtracted from the Genesis account.

Your salvation doesn't depend on what you believe about how long ago Adam lived.

I've met many people who believe God isn't necessary for anything, because science has shown how people are the result of random selection.

But it doesn't depend wholly on your interpretation or my interpretation being true. That's a fact.
It depends entirely on whether you love God and love your fellow man enough to show it by your actions. Creationists are no less Christian than the rest of us. And no less likely to be saved, so long as they do as Jesus commanded.

Friend of mine told me how a pastor went to the local high school to debate a science teacher...creation vs. evolution.
The science guy ripped the pastor to shreads. My friend told me the pastor was so upset he said he wished he'd never gone.

I don't understand how anyone who bases his beliefs on the sure word of God, could be upset by anyone whose beliefs are based on assumptions which are contrary.

Anyway, there was program on about the topigraphy of the warth. This geolgist deduced how a portion of the midwest was under a lot of water one time.

 

[Barbarian]

I'm not interested in different shaped humans that came after Adam, or extinct apes which science has mistaken for humans.

That's not what the evidence shows. There were a number of species of humans, and God doesn't say which species Adam was.
Not by what creationists say. I believe God. And I don't feel the need to add to His word to make it fit my own wishes.

You've just described evolution perfectly, '

Actually, God doesn't say anything about special creationism or evolution. Anyone who says either is God's word, is adding to scripture.

I've met many people who believe God isn't necessary for anything, because science has shown how people are the result of random selection.

They clearly disagree with evolution, then, since Darwin showed that it's not random. And they disagree with Darwin, on creation, since Darwin wrote that God created the first living things.

Friend of mine told me how a pastor went to the local high school to debate a science teacher...creation vs. evolution.
The science guy ripped the pastor to shreads. My friend told me the pastor was so upset he said he wished he'd never gone.

Most Christians see no conflict between God and His creation. But many pastors are not very aware of evolutionary theory or the evidence.

I don't understand how anyone who bases his beliefs on the sure word of God, could be upset by anyone whose beliefs are based on assumptions which are contrary.

Some Christians who accept the fact of evolution are offended by creationists. But creationist assumptions are not contrary to the word of God in most cases. They are just additions to His word, and they aren't by themselves, any danger to salvation for those people.

Anyway, there was program on about the topigraphy of the warth. This geolgist deduced how a portion of the midwest was under a lot of water one time.

It was under a lot of ice up to a few hundred thousand years ago. Interestingly, Nebraska is one of several areas on the Earth where the entire geologic column exists. And from about 100 million years ago to about 66 million years ago there was this:

 

[journeymanisnothing]

That's not what the evidence shows. There were a number of species of humans, and God doesn't say which species Adam was.

"Species of human"? Is that "a human that isn't like Adam in someway"? Like "a grunting human without the mental capacity of Adam"?
I'm being serious. There are no "humans before Adam."

Not by what creationists say. I believe God. And I don't feel the need to add to His word to make it fit my own wishes.

Actually, God doesn't say anything about special creationism or evolution. Anyone who says either is God's word, is adding to scripture.

Again, I don't understand your use of the term "special creation." What do you mean by that?

They clearly disagree with evolution, then, since Darwin showed that it's not random. And they disagree with Darwin, on creation, since Darwin wrote that God created the first living things.

Most Christians see no conflict between God and His creation. But many pastors are not very aware of evolutionary theory or the evidence.

Some Christians who accept the fact of evolution are offended by creationists. But creationist assumptions are not contrary to the word of God in most cases. They are just additions to His word, and they aren't by themselves, any danger to salvation for those people.

I think the pastors problem was he didn't know God well enough.

It was under a lot of ice up to a few hundred thousand years ago. Interestingly, Nebraska is one of several areas on the Earth where the entire geologic column exists. And from about 100 million years ago to about 66 million years ago there was this:

That kind of looks like the picture they showed and gave the same reason.

I believe all geologic features on earth resulted from the flood of Noahs' day.

 

[journeymanisnothing]

Your spirit is not a body.

I never that. You said a spirit has no body.

 

[journeymanisnothing]

Yes, that would be a problem. Here's why. We see, from time to time a distant supernova go off. A star blowing it self out of existence. Many of them are hundreds of thousands or millions of light years away. Which means that if God created light on the way to the Earth, He's showing us an image of a star that never existed. Since God is not deceptive, that is not a possibility.

Scientists assume they know how light reacts under every condition. They enhance photos of the universe accordingly. They have the luxery of saying they were wrong...and often have.

The Bible offers no apology.

 

[Barbarian]

Scientists assume they know how light reacts under every condition.

Yeah, that's pretty much the case. Speed of light in a vacuum is very well-established. There's no out here. Either the universe is ancient, or those supernovae were faked.

Some try to argue that the speed of light changed. But that won't work. The speed of light is tied to radioactive breakdown, and if that speed was significantly faster a few thousand years ago, the increased ionizing radiation would have fried all life on Earth.

Some say God is testing our faith. But that goes back to a deceptive God, which He is not.

 

[Barbarian]

I never that. You said a spirit has no body.

Actually, Jesus said that. I just believe Him.

 

[Barbarian]

"Species of human"? Is that "a human that isn't like Adam in someway"?

No. You're merely assuming that Adam looked like an anatomically modern human. Since Neanderthals are humans, that's clearly wrong.

I'm being serious. There are no "humans before Adam."

You're assuming something not in scripture.

Again, I don't understand your use of the term "special creation." What do you mean by that?

The notion that it all happened in six literal 24 hour days.

I think the pastors problem was he didn't know God well enough.

Maybe so. But being a creationist doesn't necessarily mean that he didn't know God well enough.

 

[journeymanisnothing]

No. You're merely assuming that Adam looked like an anatomically modern human.

I certainly expect Adam to have all the same parts modern humans have, regardless of how he "looked."

I also expect he had the same intellect.

I just said I'm not talking about bone size, height, etc.

You're assuming something not in scripture.

I'm believe except for Adam and Eve, no human ever existed that wasn't born from them.

If I heard correctly (this was decades ago) scientists theorized that modern man came from one set of perents. I'd take the Bibles' word for it anyway.

The notion that it all happened in six literal 24 hour days.

That does make God special.

Maybe so. But being a creationist doesn't necessarily mean that he didn't know God well enough.

It means he let the science teacher dictate what God couldn't do or wouldn't do. He got knocked off the solid foundation of Christ by the science teachers seemingly insurmountable amount of evidence.

People don't even question what they're being taught.