A man who beats the wife

[Classik]

So, friend, what can you say about a man who beats his wife? Your judgement.
Friend looks up and quickly answers: Same thing I'd do the woman who increasingly abuses the husband.

 

[Not_Now.Soon]

Is this part of a conversation you had with someone? I hate to think abuse is justified by more abuse, because from there there's no healthy relationship, and likely an ongoing cycle of abuse for dominance.

Personally my thoughts for a man abusing his wife is to help her leave. Divorce is perferable to abuse and violence. Expecially so if there are children, as I've heard it reasoned, "how long until, he hits one of the kids."

If the roles are reversed, I suppose I still encourage the man to find his distance and maybe even leave. I've watched a friend's marriage suck at him because his wife was unstable with her emotions and often took it out on my friend. Though it was more verbal and emotional abuse, my friend had a lot of wounds until he lost all love or compassion for her. He divorced her but did so under actions of impure motives. In some ways it seemed it was because the relationship was broken, in another way from the short term end of it, it looked like it was because of another woman. Both reasons I think are why the divorce went through.

Now I almost would encourage a person to leave an abusive relationship way before it comes that point, or even gets to a worser point. For physical abuse, I'd almost say leave right away. Don't wait to see how much worse it gets. If the abuser changes and strives for you still by being a better man or woman, then it's the person who was abused's call to take them back or not.

 

[for_his_glory]

One who beats his wife is not a sane man and visa versa. Being one that went through spousal abuse many years ago that was physical and mental abuse I can tell you it plays on your self-esteem. I could have called the police and had him arrested, but in his state of mind he would have come to kill me after getting out of jail as he tried many times so it would not have mattered if he went to jail. Many times God intervened as I kept hope that he would change, but drugs and his alcoholism that he hid from me when we first married became his god. God knew it and I knew it was time to get out and God made me a way where there was no way. Only God will judge him for this and I can only hope and pray he has changed for without the drugs and alcohol he was a good man.

 

[Christ_empowered]

spousal abuse is terrible. I don't know a good solution. the legal system mostly preys upon those with fewer re$ource$. A poor man beats his wife, he gets a record. A rich man beats his wife, he might, at worst, get therapy.

Legal solutions are, at best, deterrents and/or band aids. Society needs to change. American culture is more violent than many other comparably developed, affluent nations. Its a real problem, and more incarceration isn't going to fix it. Spousal abuse flourishes where there's lots of poverty, frustration, low status of women, low educational attainment. Violence in general flourishes under similar conditions, of course....that's why The Bible Belt tends to be so violent, compared to other parts of the nation.

Rambling...it seems, to me, that fixing the violence problem would involve creating a more just, humane society. I've been a victim of violence myself--I was bashed on the head with a pipe in a southern city--and I've seen it...my attackers were impoverished, angry dudes in a part of town that was getting gentrified. Luckily for me, after I got bashed on the head, a car came down the road and the attackers ran away. Mabe if they hadn't lived in poverty their whole lives, maybe if they hadn't lived in such a violent culture and subculture, maybe if they hadn't been constantly punished for being poor, angry, and black...their lives (and mine) would have been different.

So, there it is...the problem of spousal abuse, like any other violence, happens in a social context. Psychological theories are interesting and all, but remember: "the personal is political."

 

[dianegcook]

So, friend, what can you say about a man who beats his wife? Your judgement.
Friend looks up and quickly answers: Same thing I'd do the woman who increasingly abuses the husband.

Good one...
Yep, if one beats me, I will hit back, lol.

I just came back from Pigeon Forge, while in Gatlinburg, I was sitting down on a bench, when a young couple sat beside me, they were arguing , he was calling her some terrible names, then he slapped her and took off. The streets were crowded with peopleE
I looked at the girl, and told her that I wouldn't put up with that, she said nothing..
He comes back and they leave together.

If he were to hit her again, I was going for him.
Back in my younger days, a man would knock his lights out!
Even when a son disrespects his Mom.

But, it is hard to know what one goes through,
Might be , have no where else to go,
Afraid, hard to let go, I don't know..
I felt for her, I prayed for her...
Hope the Lord will give her strength to escape abuse.

And as Tina Turner says, "What's love got to do with it?"

 

[Wrg1405]

I am the eldest of 3 brothers.

We have all been exposed to spousal violence in our very early years.
I'm the only one who remembers our biological father beating on my mother whist the police were beating on him.
We all remember the physical fights that our mum and step dad had. I was the one who had to call the ambulance after my mum went to hit my step dad (after he punched her) and slit her wrist, with blood pouring out and my younger brothers screaming he said "I hope you die you F**** B***" (sorry if that offends just relating reality)

Anyway my youngest brother beat on his wife and was full of anger towards her, he was ordered by a judge to attend an anger management course. My other brother I can't say he beat upon his wife bit it wouldn't surprise me if he did. He also showed much anger towards her. They are both divorced.

Me? I have never threatened my wife emotionally or physically. The only times I have been physical with my wife is when I hold her hand, kiss her, hug her, wipe the tears from her eyes when she is sad (or premnstrual 2) and of course enjoying our intimate times (couldn't find a emoji for that one)

Anyway what is the difference? Why am I different from my brothers?

Simple answer is Jesus. I wouldn't say that I needed healing per se but I did need healing from the memories and emotions in this area, but what I do know is that I want to be the best husband and father that God has called me to be.

I think Christ_empowered is right (and BTW my beautiful wonderful brother in Christ you are an inspiration) a learned pattern of behaviour can be the root of some things in our lives. I learned a new pattern of behaviour when I beleived in Jesus and am still having to learn.

I am not defending my brothers in any way shape or form. All that we do that's not of God is sin.

If spouses beat up each other whether it be physical or emotional it's a result of fallen human nature.
The worlds response is to either send them to prison or on a correctional course, that doesn't necessarily deal with the deep rooted issues that may be causing this behaviour. However those suffering spousal abuse need to be protected.

I myself would go as far to say to someone in this situation that they should ask the other to leave the house, or themselves leave the house or take out an injunction.

I know people who were abusive to their spouse and when they came to Jesus it all changed but alas I also know of people who are Christians who are still emotionally abusive to their spouse.

The truth is that until Jesus says "Enough is enough, time to call account and restore things back to the original creation, no more sin, no more pain" then the situation being discussed in the post will always be around along with all other results that this sin sick world suffers with.

We though in the intervening time can help, being the light of Christ, not judging the person but the sin.

 

[Christ_empowered]

wow, Wrg...that's intense. I'm glad The Lord has made you into a solid husband, despite your experiences early on life.

I just think...well, here in the US, the response is always make more things illegal, make jail time and other penalties more severe, lock em up, etc. Thing is...that doesn't change the culture. I think it can make things worse, because you respond to violence by sticking the offender first in jail (which is a hell hole in the US), and then possibly in prison (even worse). There's probation, but a lot of times that's just a way to keep people under judicial control w/o having to spend all kindsa $$$ on full on imprisonment.

I think the punitive aspect of American culture is part of and feeds into the higher rates of violence. Who's fault is it? How will he/she be punished? Lock 'em up! Violence begets violence. I think rational approaches to dealing with any criminal behavior will have to look beyond legal solutions, psychobabble, etc. to effective ways of changing social conditions so fewer people get angry, broken, wretched, destroyed by life+society...and then act accordingly.

((off soap box))

 

[childeye]

I believe that some people hate other people for loving them. It can be twisted many different ways, but essentially the devil says things that drives people insane. They are deceived into distrusting love, and they do whatever is necessary to make their errant conviction become justified. It's like watching the anger of betrayal in action before any betrayal even occurs. Hence it is the opposite of faith.

If you try to help the person with these issues, they perceive this as verification that you believe there is something wrong with them and don't accept them as they are, which further maddens them. If the person being beaten tries to leave the relationship, it is also a fulfillment of the anticipated betrayal, and can even justify murdering that person, just to show how much the murderer loved them. The lies that pervert the love in people can be quite complicated.

 

[Wrg1405]

wow, Wrg...that's intense. I'm glad The Lord has made you into a solid husband, despite your experiences early on life.

I just think...well, here in the US, the response is always make more things illegal, make jail time and other penalties more severe, lock em up, etc. Thing is...that doesn't change the culture. I think it can make things worse, because you respond to violence by sticking the offender first in jail (which is a hell hole in the US), and then possibly in prison (even worse). There's probation, but a lot of times that's just a way to keep people under judicial control w/o having to spend all kindsa $$$ on full on imprisonment.

I think the punitive aspect of American culture is part of and feeds into the higher rates of violence. Who's fault is it? How will he/she be punished? Lock 'em up! Violence begets violence. I think rational approaches to dealing with any criminal behavior will have to look beyond legal solutions, psychobabble, etc. to effective ways of changing social conditions so fewer people get angry, broken, wretched, destroyed by life+society...and then act accordingly.

((off soap box))

My friend you are right and it's the same over here. The Judicial system does not necessarily change culture but contains it. It does not change the person as such and can add fuel to the fire. To me in the OT there was a judicial system in place, the 10 commandments that was meant to shape, create a new culture that Gods chosen people were meant to walk in, to glorify God. When they didn't there were consequences.

Yes I agree that psychology and other psychobabble stuff can and does have an impact, but to me all it does is contain culture and does not change it. It does not deal with the root of sin in a persons life. To me Jesus came to deal with the sin, the root of sin. When that dealt with then the person changes and along with that the culture.

 

[Wrg1405]

I believe that some people hate other people for loving them. It can be twisted many different ways, but essentially the devil says things that drives people insane. They are deceived into distrusting love, and they do whatever is necessary to make their errant conviction become justified.
It's like watching the anger of betrayal in action before any betrayal even occurs.

I get what you are saying but I am not sure that I agree that your comment "some people hate other people for loving them" if someone loves us for who we are then I don't think we can hate them but I would say as you say they are deceived.

Satan comes along side and says "They don't really love you, in fact your not lovable, they just humour you"

If we listen to such a lie then yes then we anticipate a response and react accordingly. We will do what we can to prove them right or withdraw.

A lie of the satan to destroy our relationship with others and God

 

[Christ_empowered]

true...I was thinking too much like a hippie, not enough like a Christian, lol. Jesus has changed me, thru forgiveness+transformation ("washed and made clean," "new creation in Christ Jesus"), in ways that...well, not only are impossible outside of Christ, but also...in ways that don't sit well with many non-Christians. This is to be expected, I suppose.

My issue is...how do Christians change the culture to make it less violent? Especially these days, with all this crazy inequality, police violence, gun massacres, terrorism and fear of terrorism? At the end of the day, all any Christian can do is try to facilitate God's work in another person's life. Its just...well, the culture seems so aggressive and angry, more so now than when I was growing up (I'll soon be 32). Everybody's going to a counselor, everybody (and their mama) is on psych meds...meanwhile, suicide rates are up, lethal drug OD's are up amongst some groups, and the government would still rather lavish money on the prison system than on programs that would make society less violent.

Its just...ugh...the world. Its crazy. I --was-- an angry, broken human being, and I ended up in jail. Only Jesus could change me and save me, and He did and its ongoing (Praise God!). I go through stuff now, living here, but its nothing compared to what --could-- be happening, what does happen to many others...and the culture just heaps scorn and derision upon people, labels, stigma stigma (and more stigma)...and the cycle continues. These days, we have 0 tolerance schools with law enforcement all over the place. 0 tolerance...if you're poor, working class, minority, disabled, etc. The oppression starts young, and I find it sickening.

((off soap box))

 

[Wrg1405]

true...I was thinking too much like a hippie, not enough like a Christian, lol. Jesus has changed me, thru forgiveness+transformation ("washed and made clean," "new creation in Christ Jesus"), in ways that...well, not only are impossible outside of Christ, but also...in ways that don't sit well with many non-Christians. This is to be expected, I suppose.

My issue is...how do Christians change the culture to make it less violent? Especially these days, with all this crazy inequality, police violence, gun massacres, terrorism and fear of terrorism? At the end of the day, all any Christian can do is try to facilitate God's work in another person's life. Its just...well, the culture seems so aggressive and angry, more so now than when I was growing up (I'll soon be 32). Everybody's going to a counselor, everybody (and their mama) is on psych meds...meanwhile, suicide rates are up, lethal drug OD's are up amongst some groups, and the government would still rather lavish money on the prison system than on programs that would make society less violent.

Its just...ugh...the world. Its crazy. I --was-- an angry, broken human being, and I ended up in jail. Only Jesus could change me and save me, and He did and its ongoing (Praise God!). I go through stuff now, living here, but its nothing compared to what --could-- be happening, what does happen to many others...and the culture just heaps scorn and derision upon people, labels, stigma stigma (and more stigma)...and the cycle continues. These days, we have 0 tolerance schools with law enforcement all over the place. 0 tolerance...if you're poor, working class, minority, disabled, etc. The oppression starts young, and I find it sickening.

((off soap box))

The world is crazy and it's just as crazy and evil as it was in the OT and when Jesus came. Peter realised he was and angry broken human being, Paul was the same. Jesus himself came to a culture that heaped scorn and derision and stigma upon people. Those that did that were Pharisees and Jesus found that sickening.

How did he start the change? He accepted 12 raggamuiffuns (only 11 followed through) he taught them what God is all about and then sent them out. They made a difference. Truth is when Jesus saved us we can make the same difference. When they see something different they want it, when they get it they walk in it, when they do it continues to carry on. One person at a time. God appoints governments and we can't change that but what we can do is effect one person at a time within the government that God has appointed

 

[childeye]

true...I was thinking too much like a hippie, not enough like a Christian, lol. Jesus has changed me, thru forgiveness+transformation ("washed and made clean," "new creation in Christ Jesus"), in ways that...well, not only are impossible outside of Christ, but also...in ways that don't sit well with many non-Christians. This is to be expected, I suppose.

My issue is...how do Christians change the culture to make it less violent? Especially these days, with all this crazy inequality, police violence, gun massacres, terrorism and fear of terrorism? At the end of the day, all any Christian can do is try to facilitate God's work in another person's life. Its just...well, the culture seems so aggressive and angry, more so now than when I was growing up (I'll soon be 32). Everybody's going to a counselor, everybody (and their mama) is on psych meds...meanwhile, suicide rates are up, lethal drug OD's are up amongst some groups, and the government would still rather lavish money on the prison system than on programs that would make society less violent.

Its just...ugh...the world. Its crazy. I --was-- an angry, broken human being, and I ended up in jail. Only Jesus could change me and save me, and He did and its ongoing (Praise God!). I go through stuff now, living here, but its nothing compared to what --could-- be happening, what does happen to many others...and the culture just heaps scorn and derision upon people, labels, stigma stigma (and more stigma)...and the cycle continues. These days, we have 0 tolerance schools with law enforcement all over the place. 0 tolerance...if you're poor, working class, minority, disabled, etc. The oppression starts young, and I find it sickening.

((off soap box))

The reality presented by the world is based upon a false image of god. Without a Holy Image of our Maker, insanity is inevitable. I personally don't think that we as Christians can change the culture of the world. I think that as True Christians, we can, through faith, preserve some pockets of sanity until Christ comes again. His coming will change the culture.

 

[Christ_empowered]

good point. I've taken this thread off into rant against The Man territory, haven't I?

I'm pondering what you wrote. So far, I think you're correct. Salt unto the earth. Light unto the darkness. Imperfect, but saved people.....in one of my classes, we talked about "bubbling up" into the world, especially from one's profession. A Christian counselor, a Christian teacher, a Christian police officer, a Christian hair dresser....they all make a difference.

 

[childeye]

good point. I've taken this thread off into rant against The Man territory, haven't I?

I'm pondering what you wrote. So far, I think you're correct. Salt unto the earth. Light unto the darkness. Imperfect, but saved people.....in one of my classes, we talked about "bubbling up" into the world, especially from one's profession. A Christian counselor, a Christian teacher, a Christian police officer, a Christian hair dresser....they all make a difference.

I've been a carpet cleaner operating for over 35 years. As a Christian in a battle against lies, I boldly express the faith that Love is eternal through many diverse conversations with my clients. Yes, the salt of the earth is exactly the correct assessment, and you are well guided to have that brought to your remembrance. Therefore the Spirit is present with me, and I always make a difference in my interactions with others. After all, the Truth is not impotent.