Solo said:
If you are not a believer then you should start seeking God and become one. Jesus said that unless one is born of God he shall not see or enter the kingdom of God. See John 3.
If you really loved those that you know that are Muslim, you would pray for them to also be born again so that they would excape the condemnation of all who are not believers. It is easy to say things like you have stated, but it is yet another to actually do what you say. When the chance comes for you to take your friends place in everlasting punishment so that they can enter the kingdom of heaven, you may just balk at it. Also, why would you have to do that when Jesus paid the penalty already. If you were truly sincere, you would pray for your friends and be a witness for Jesus Christ to them so that they did not end up condemned with other non-believers. Of course, human understanding is lacking until God fixes it with the indwelling of the Holy Spirit.
Hi Solo.
Thanks for your response. Read carefully though, I never said I wasn't a believer. In my first post (the one with the five pillars in it) I said I was religious, and by that I mean I
am a believer.
As for the rest of your response...that's just the thing. You already say that my friends will be condemned to Hell because they are not believers. But they
are believers. They believe in God, first and utmost. They believe in Jesus, Abraham, Moses, Jacob, Joseph, David...everyone in the Bible. These people are the best, most honorable people I could ever hope to meet in my life--I truly mean that.
Look, to me and I'm sure to a lot of people here, God is All-Powerful, All-Knowing and All-Seeing. He is the One who made this entire universe, and all that is in it. A universe that we mere humans have so, so, so far to go to fathom it all. He created everything we see here on Earth...He created
us. What I can't understand is that you people seem so prepared to put this Almighty being--that none of us can ever even hope to imagine--in a box. You say that if you are not specifically born again, and if you don't specifically recieve the Holy Spirit, then God is throwing you in Hell, to suffer for all Eternity.
So, if a Muslim, or a Hindu, or whatever is not born again and does not recieve the Holy Spirit...but otherwise is honorable, good, decent, honest, hardworking, helps others selflessly, modest, has morals and values that the Pope himself might not even have...is going to burn in Hell because, on the day of judgement, God is going to say, "To heck with all the joy and peace and good you've done on Earth. To heck with all your selflessness and your honesty. To heck with all those people sobbing at your grave because they'll never meet another person like you. You're going to suffer every day, all day, for all eternity, BECAUSE YOU AREN'T CHRISTIAN!"
No...no, I'll be insulting the heck out of God if I believe that. I don't give a tinker's toot what religion you are from. I cannot fathom God putting someone like a person I've described above with people who deserve to be in Hell, like murderers, rapists and pedophiles. Sorry, the God I know, the God who has blessed me innumerably in my life, cannot be put in such a light.
However...if you are right, and God will put my friends in Hell for not being Christian, and the only way to save them was for me to take their place, I wouldn't balk. I'd gladly do it. These people are very special to me, and they'd do the same for me, no questions asked.
I'm sure it's starting to be a little obvious that these Muslims that I'm speaking of are VERY close to me. And they are. VERY close. So I'm not just speaking out of the top of my head.
And what happens if they forget to do any of those things even once? Or how about twice? What's the magic number?
Sorry, but flesh and blood can't enter the kingdom of heaven. It dies and rots away as anyone who's seen a dead body knows. Only the Spirit is eternal. But since Islam doesn't claim to have God's Spirit, then the Muslims are up a creek without a paddle concerning heaven.
Hi Heidi,
I'll address the first part of your question. I'd do the second as well, but I don't have a lot of time. Well...are you asking about forgetting to obey any of the Commandments? Or are you only speaking about the five pillars? I'll just address the five pillars for now. Feel free to ask any follow-up questions.
Well...you can't really forget the first pillar. You just believe it.
As for praying five times a day...well, in most Muslim families you learn the prayers from a very young age. (As young as nine mostly, and in some, even younger.) And there's a whole ritual involved--it isn't exactly easy to forget whether or not you washed up, put your rug out, stood on it and prayed. If you do forget because you were very busy or whatever, you're not going to be eternally damned. You can repeat it late anytime, just so long as it is repeated. It's like handing in homework past the due date.
As for fasting...well, if you're Muslim you know when Ramadan is coming up. If you're confused or not sure, you can always ask or look it up on the Internet (there are many sites that tell you things like this). If you are fasting and you forget and end up eating/drinking something, that's all right. If you have
truly forgotten, and then suddenly remember, all you have to do is spit out whatever is still in your mouth (if there's anything) and wash it out. Continue as if you've never eaten, because it was an honest mistake. However, eating on purpose is EXTREMELY frowned upon. (Just so your imaginations don't run away with you, it doesn't end with the death penalty. I don't know what you have to do to right it. It can be forgiven, but not easily.)
Making the pilgrimmage is done once in your lifetime, if you can afford it. If you cannot afford it, then it is forgivable if you can't do it. But you should try your best to. I don't really know how you can forget that if you're a practicing Muslim...if you can give me an example I wouldn't mind.
The last one is just to give to charity. During Ramadan, giving to the poor is held in extremely high esteem. During Ramadan, a good deed counts for twice as much. Kinda like when you do good deeds around Christmas time. During Eid-Al-Adha many Muslims give to charity as well.
I hope that answers your question!
Yours,
Joudie.
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