What's new
By:
Filters
Christian Forums

This is a sample guest message. Register a free account today to become a member! Once signed in, you'll be able to participate on this site by adding your own topics and posts, as well as connect with other members through your own private inbox!

A Question For Jewish Believers in Christ

J

JT4444

Member
One objection I hear from Jews is that Jesus did not fulfill all of the prophecies when He came. Therefore, he can't be the Messiah. But Christians believe these remaining prophecies will be fulfilled at the Second Coming.

So why do Jews rule out the possibility of a Second Coming? There seem to be two versions of the Messiah: 1) the suffering servant, and 2) the conquering king. The Christian belief in the Second Coming solves those apparent contradictions, but Jews reject that belief. Why?
 
Hello JT4444.
I'm not Jewish, but I knew a Jewish brother who loved Jesus with his whole heart.
He said one of Judaisms' most respected teachers, Rabbi Maimonides, made a list of things the Messiah would do.

I remember 3 things on the list.

1) Messiah will gather every Jewish person in the world back to Israel.
2)He will destroy Israels' enemies.
3)He will bring world peace.

There are more things on the list but I can't remember them.
 
JT4444 said:
One objection I hear from Jews is that Jesus did not fulfill all of the prophecies when He came. Therefore, he can't be the Messiah. But Christians believe these remaining prophecies will be fulfilled at the Second Coming.

So why do Jews rule out the possibility of a Second Coming? There seem to be two versions of the Messiah: 1) the suffering servant, and 2) the conquering king. The Christian belief in the Second Coming solves those apparent contradictions, but Jews reject that belief. Why?
Click to expand...
I would think Jewish "believers" in Christ, (Christians), do hold to a 2nd coming. Jews for Judaism, (the world calls them Jews), do not believe Jesus was the Christ nor the Son of God so why would they believe He is the Son of Man coming on/with the clouds of Heaven as spoken of through the prophet Daniel?

“In my vision at night I looked, and there before me was one like a son of man, coming with the clouds of heaven. He approached the Ancient of Days and was led into his presence. 14 He was given authority, glory and sovereign power; all nations and peoples of every language worshiped him. His dominion is an everlasting dominion that will not pass away, and his kingdom is one that will never be destroyed.
 
Randy said:
I would think Jewish "believers" in Christ, (Christians), do hold to a 2nd coming. Jews for Judaism, (the world calls them Jews), do not believe Jesus was the Christ nor the Son of God so why would they believe He is the Son of Man coming on/with the clouds of Heaven as spoken of through the prophet Daniel?

“In my vision at night I looked, and there before me was one like a son of man, coming with the clouds of heaven. He approached the Ancient of Days and was led into his presence. 14 He was given authority, glory and sovereign power; all nations and peoples of every language worshiped him. His dominion is an everlasting dominion that will not pass away, and his kingdom is one that will never be destroyed.
Click to expand...
Jews don't believe Jesus was the Messiah because He did not fulfill all the prophecies. My question was why they believe that a Second Coming couldn't resolve that issue. Nowhere in Scripture does it say that is not a possibility. In fact, the dual nature of the Messiah--as a suffering servant and as a conquering king--fits perfectly with the Christian beliefs about Christ.
 
Judaism teaches that Jews are Gods' chosen people and that Messiah comes to be their king and rule on this earth. They believe Messuah will be an ordinary man who will die after his rule. Life and death will continue, but they also believe in the resurrection of the dead.

This is just what I was taught by my Jewish friend. He also told me there are different sects of Judaism and different beliefs.

Christians teach that faithful people regardless of race are Gods' chosen people. We believe Jesus came to teach all mankind about God, defeat the enemies of
all mankind (evil spirits, sin and death, and that Jesus did this by what he taught, by how he lived and by his resurrection. We believe when he returns, he will judge the living and those who have died. The faithful will be made immortal and heaven and earth will be made new. We believe the unsaved will be punished.

There are also different sects of Christianity with different beliefs, but all faithful believers in Jesus will be saved regardless of their denomination....unless some christians don't believe that.
 
journeyman said:
Judaism teaches that Jews are Gods' chosen people and that Messiah comes to be their king and rule on this earth. They believe Messuah will be an ordinary man who will die after his rule. Life and death will continue, but they also believe in the resurrection of the dead.

This is just what I was taught by my Jewish friend. He also told me there are different sects of Judaism and different beliefs.

Christians teach that faithful people regardless of race are Gods' chosen people. We believe Jesus came to teach all mankind about God, defeat the enemies of
all mankind (evil spirits, sin and death, and that Jesus did this by what he taught, by how he lived and by his resurrection. We believe when he returns, he will judge the living and those who have died. The faithful will be made immortal and heaven and earth will be made new. We believe the unsaved will be punished.

There are also different sects of Christianity with different beliefs, but all faithful believers in Jesus will be saved regardless of their denomination....unless some christians don't believe that.
Click to expand...
Even Jesus's adversaries , in His day, understood this.
The crowd spoke up, “We have heard from the Law that the Messiah will remain forever, so how can you say, ‘The Son of Man must be lifted up’? Who is this ‘Son of Man’?”
 
Randy said:
Even Jesus's adversaries , in His day, understood this.
The crowd spoke up, “We have heard from the Law that the Messiah will remain forever, so how can you say, ‘The Son of Man must be lifted up’? Who is this ‘Son of Man’?”
Click to expand...
I think that Judaism teaches the Messiah will get married, have children and continue the Davidic line that way.

I'm not sure about this, but they have different ideas even among their Rabbis, likee we do here. Their interpretation of the the OT (the Talmud) is full of rabbinical debates.

Rabbi Rashi taught that Isa.53 describes the "suffering servant" as the Jewish people collectively.
We now know Christ is the suffering servant, but Jusus also taught that his followers would suffer for believing in him.
 
JT4444 said:
One objection I hear from Jews is that Jesus did not fulfill all of the prophecies when He came. Therefore, he can't be the Messiah. But Christians believe these remaining prophecies will be fulfilled at the Second Coming.

So why do Jews rule out the possibility of a Second Coming? There seem to be two versions of the Messiah: 1) the suffering servant, and 2) the conquering king. The Christian belief in the Second Coming solves those apparent contradictions, but Jews reject that belief. Why?
Click to expand...

Many would actually not hold a second coming out to be such an issue as Christians may think. One very big issue with Jewish people is that they see that if they come to believe in Jesus the Church tells them they either should or have to give up what makes them Jewish in culture and life.

From a Messianic Judaism point of view we do not believe that. We believe there is value to follow Torah, and many believe that Jewish believers are still bound to follow it as Law. In other words, for Gentiles not following Torah dietary Law would not be a sin, but it may be for Jewish people depending on one's interpretation of the scriptures.

A second coming is actually not unheard of in traditional Judaism, certainly not in second Temple Judaism. Even now some Orthodox Chabad believe that their Rebbe is the Messiah and will return - a second coming.
 
JT4444 said:
One objection I hear from Jews is that Jesus did not fulfill all of the prophecies when He came. Therefore, he can't be the Messiah. But Christians believe these remaining prophecies will be fulfilled at the Second Coming.

So why do Jews rule out the possibility of a Second Coming? There seem to be two versions of the Messiah: 1) the suffering servant, and 2) the conquering king. The Christian belief in the Second Coming solves those apparent contradictions, but Jews reject that belief. Why?
Click to expand...
You'll find the prophecy of Conquering King and Suffering Servant in Isaiah.
But the question should be "Why do Gentile Christians here at this Forum believe that Gentiles have replaced Israel in God's covenants with this people?"

From my studies I see God has made no covenant with Gentiles or any Gentiles and their seed as God did with father Abraham and to his seed.

One thing I am coming to believe about Gentile Christians is the possibility and probability that THEY are the Whore of Babylon in Revelation 17.

I'm looking at this and I will study further.
By the way, since God made no covenant with Gentiles, He is free to destroy them when He returns, and I'll be right beside Him and the people and armies of Israel when it happens.
When God destroyed His people at the time of Moses they were under covenant so, they might have died at the hands of God to get them out of the way but still under covenant may still be saved.
I'm looking at this question, too.
God keeps His promises. God is a Faithful God and He's got the back of His people He's called and saved.
I'm included.
 
jeremiah1five said:
You'll find the prophecy of Conquering King and Suffering Servant in Isaiah.
But the question should be "Why do Gentile Christians here at this Forum believe that Gentiles have replaced Israel in God's covenants with this people?"

From my studies I see God has made no covenant with Gentiles or any Gentiles and their seed as God did with father Abraham and to his seed.

One thing I am coming to believe about Gentile Christians is the possibility and probability that THEY are the Whore of Babylon in Revelation 17.

I'm looking at this and I will study further.
By the way, since God made no covenant with Gentiles, He is free to destroy them when He returns, and I'll be right beside Him and the people and armies of Israel when it happens.
When God destroyed His people at the time of Moses they were under covenant so, they might have died at the hands of God to get them out of the way but still under covenant may still be saved.
I'm looking at this question, too.
God keeps His promises. God is a Faithful God and He's got the back of His people He's called and saved.
I'm included.
Click to expand...
The New Testament is clear that the Jewish people have not been replaced, but anti-Semitism, xenophobia, and other cultural influences have led to anti-Jewish feelings and actions by people who claim to be Christians.

The Early Church's roots are Jewish, but the faith became syncretized with other belief systems in Europe and Egypt primarily.

It is clear from reading NT scripture that the bride is the Church, made spotless by the substitutionary death of Jesus/Yeshua. The whore of Babylon is the bride's opposite. Christian scripture makes it plain that the Whore is a worldly religion that is "drunk with the wine of fornication with the kings of the Earth. Church and state were merged in Europe, and the results were not good.
 
journeyman said:
Hello JT4444.
I'm not Jewish, but I knew a Jewish brother who loved Jesus with his whole heart.
He said one of Judaisms' most respected teachers, Rabbi Maimonides, made a list of things the Messiah would do.

I remember 3 things on the list.

1) Messiah will gather every Jewish person in the world back to Israel.
2)He will destroy Israels' enemies.
3)He will bring world peace.

There are more things on the list but I can't remember them.
Click to expand...
He won't bring "this world" peace.
 
JT4444 said:
Jews don't believe Jesus was the Messiah because He did not fulfill all the prophecies. My question was why they believe that a Second Coming couldn't resolve that issue. Nowhere in Scripture does it say that is not a possibility. In fact, the dual nature of the Messiah--as a suffering servant and as a conquering king--fits perfectly with the Christian beliefs about Christ.
Click to expand...
Do you know why they think He must fulfill every prophesy ?
Is it written somewhere that He will fulfill all of them ?
I kinda think that at the last one fulfilled, it will be too late to accept Him.
 
Hopeful 2 said:
Do you know why they think He must fulfill every prophesy ?
Is it written somewhere that He will fulfill all of them ?
I kinda think that at the last one fulfilled, it will be too late to accept Him.
Click to expand...
Yes, I believe that he will fulfill all of them. My question is: Why do we think that he will fulfill all of them at once? Christians believe that there will be a Second Coming. Jews believe that Moshiach must fulfill all of that at the same time.

I don't know the answer. I was just posing the question. I've never heard or seen an explanation in all of my years.
 
JT4444 said:
Yes, I believe that he will fulfill all of them. My question is: Why do we think that he will fulfill all of them at once? Christians believe that there will be a Second Coming. Jews believe that Moshiach must fulfill all of that at the same time.

I don't know the answer. I was just posing the question. I've never heard or seen an explanation in all of my years.
Click to expand...
I feel that, like during Jesus' time on earth, the Jews are looking for a physical, nation based answer.
When Jesus gave us a Spiritual answer.
 
I've been watching a lot of videos by Jews and Jewish Christians and found it shocking how far Christians have drifted away from their Jewish roots (in their faith). I knew so little, I just recently found out Pentecost is a JEWISH feast!
 
JT4444 said:
Jews don't believe Jesus was the Messiah because He did not fulfill all the prophecies. My question was why they believe that a Second Coming couldn't resolve that issue. Nowhere in Scripture does it say that is not a possibility. In fact, the dual nature of the Messiah--as a suffering servant and as a conquering king--fits perfectly with the Christian beliefs about Christ.
Click to expand...
Perhaps your title is confusing to me than.
"Jewish believers in Christ"

What we know is according to Jesus is that those who listen to and learn from the Father go to the Son.
Those that belong to God hear what God says.
Those who remained in their unbelief did so because they did not belong to God as Jesus stated.

It seems to me Messianic Jews put a great deal of importance on Jewish customs, laws and practices. The importance is not stated in that but in belief in the Son in whom righteousness is credited from God to the believer through faith in the Son. Zeal for the Son not zeal for Jewish customs and traditions is what Paul taught. He and the other Apostles suffered for their Zeal in the Son. Just as Jesus had Zeal for His Fathers house.
 
JT4444 said:
Yes, I believe that he will fulfill all of them. My question is: Why do we think that he will fulfill all of them at once? Christians believe that there will be a Second Coming. Jews believe that Moshiach must fulfill all of that at the same time.

I don't know the answer. I was just posing the question. I've never heard or seen an explanation in all of my years.
Click to expand...
The answer is Jesus fulfilled the prophecies where the Messiah will defeat the enemy of his people. He conquered death. And as people come to believe in him, we pass from death to life and enter "Jerusalem" (the City of Peace),

hath everlasting life.....is passed from death unto life. Jn.5:24

ye are come unto mount Sion, and unto the city of the living God Heb.12:22

"When" is answered by "how" abd "why."
 
Humanity should be living as the Messiah said, but for those who do we do grow into his peace which passes the understanding of this world.

we are more than conquerors through him that loved us. Rom.8:37

How is someone who got his head lopped off a conqueror through the Messiah? Maybe Paul wrote Romans thinking Jesus would never allow him to be beheaded. Maybe when the axe was coming down Paul thought he made a big mistake.

Or maybe he believed the death of his flesh wasn't the end of his life.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top