A question for those with "uncertainty"

[radorth]

The passage you quoted was NOT relevant as far as DEFINING what biblical faith is...it simply shows that believing ISNT enough
.

Excellent, we agree then.

 

[radorth]

Ask a more thoughtful one which accounts for the entire meaning of faith, as Jesus used the term.

We need to be careful when seeking an "entire" definition of faith. Words can be used to mean different things, and the differences cannot always be reconciled. Thus, we must be careful that we do not impose the meaning of faith in one instance upon the meaning of faith in a second instance. That is not to say a biblical or Jesus-centered definition of faith cannot be derived, but we must understand that that "entire" meaning might not be employed by all the passages discussing faith. To see an example of how this might create problems, consider the following argument.

Premise: A plane is a woodworking tool.
Premise: A Boeing 747 is a plane.
Inference: Therefore, a Boeing 747 is a woodworking tool.

True, but one would hope we are past such semantical arguments. I think most folks here understand that faith sufficient to be saved is not as great as the faith Jesus had to pray for a miracle and have no doubt it would happen. That is 100% faith, which none of us have. This what me and Veritas were talking about, and I assumed any thoughtful, sincere reader could grasp that. The less thoughtful, pedantic, insincere one's I really don't care about, to tell the truth.

Rad

 

[follower of Christ]

Ask a more thoughtful one which accounts for the entire meaning of faith, as Jesus used the term.

We need to be careful when seeking an "entire" definition of faith. Words can be used to mean different things, and the differences cannot always be reconciled. Thus, we must be careful that we do not impose the meaning of faith in one instance upon the meaning of faith in a second instance. That is not to say a biblical or Jesus-centered definition of faith cannot be derived, but we must understand that that "entire" meaning might not be employed by all the passages discussing faith. To see an example of how this might create problems, consider the following argument.

Premise: A plane is a woodworking tool.
Premise: A Boeing 747 is a plane.
Inference: Therefore, a Boeing 747 is a woodworking tool.

Thats really nice, M, but we arent talking about planes here, but FAITH in God from His word.

*IF* we were discussing faith in MAN versus faith in GOD, then you might have a semblance of a point, but we're not.
Uncertainty in God is less than biblical faith.

 

[follower of Christ]

The passage you quoted was NOT relevant as far as DEFINING what biblical faith is...it simply shows that believing ISNT enough
.

Excellent, we agree then.

Isnt enough in that belief and works that prove that belief are required because lack of works shows that the faith is dead...ie doesnt exist.

 

[follower of Christ]

True, but one would hope we are past such semantical arguments.

One would think we are, but here we are arguing about biblical faith when we've seen from scripture exactly what biblical faith is and what is needed to please God.

I think most folks here understand that faith sufficient to be saved is not as great as the faith Jesus had to pray for a miracle and have no doubt it would happen.

So you think that doubting that we are saved is ok then ?
There goes the ASSURANCE and CONFIDENCE of salvation, I suppose.
Jesus was God. Of course He knew He could perform miracles....that was part of His mission here.

That is 100% faith, which none of us have.

Sorry but HIS word requires that sort of faith, even if some here cant seem to read and understand that fact.

But if any of you lacks wisdom, let him ask of God, who gives to all liberally and with no reproach, and it shall be given to him.
But let him ask in faith, doubting nothing.
For he who doubts is like a wave of the sea, driven by the wind and tossed.
For do not let that man think that he shall receive anything from the Lord;
(Jas 1:5-7 MKJV)

But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him. (Hebrews 11:6)

I take it that 'doubting nothing' to some here means 'doubting something anyway'.

This what me and Veritas were talking about,

What I saw with Veritas was that we ALL have 'small' faith...which is utter rubbish. Veritas doesnt know me or anyone else enough to make such claims. Veritas also would seem to be claiming that NO ONE can ASK for wisdom and receive it from God because 'small' faith is less than the faith REQUIRED to have NO doubts when asking God for wisdom.

and I assumed any thoughtful, sincere reader could grasp that.

And one would think that any sincere, literate reader could grasp GODS word in the matter...

But if any of you lacks wisdom, let him ask of God, who gives to all liberally and with no reproach, and it shall be given to him.
But let him ask in faith, doubting nothing.
For he who doubts is like a wave of the sea, driven by the wind and tossed.
For do not let that man think that he shall receive anything from the Lord;
(Jas 1:5-7 MKJV)

But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him. (Hebrews 11:6)

The less thoughtful, pedantic, insincere one's I really don't care about, to tell the truth.

Rad

Ditto...
The ones that those of us WITH 100% in God dont care about are those that seemingly cant deal with what His word shows about faith that pleases Him.

 

[Aero_Hudson]

I chose option 2 for a few reasons...

- I am a new believer just becoming a Christian in April of this year. I am still learning what it means to be a Christian and still coming to terms with my past and how that now applies to my new found beliefs.

- I still have my doubts. Not all of the time. But there are times when I challenge myself and where I think to myself "Is this really true?" I think if ask a majority of Christians they would tell you that they have these fleeting moments of doubt or questioning as well as times in their lives where their faith might waver a bit.

This is why I chose #2. My faith gets stronger everyday. I pray everyday that God will show me the way to him and also reveal to me how I can live in his glory and what he wants me to do with my life. I will admit, he hasn't answered yet but I have no doubt that he will someday. :D

 

[follower of Christ]

I chose option 2 for a few reasons...

- I am a new believer just becoming a Christian in April of this year. I am still learning what it means to be a Christian and still coming to terms with my past and how that now applies to my new found beliefs.

- I still have my doubts. Not all of the time. But there are times when I challenge myself and where I think to myself "Is this really true?" I think if ask a majority of Christians they would tell you that they have these fleeting moments of doubt or questioning as well as times in their lives where their faith might waver a bit.

This is why I chose #2. My faith gets stronger everyday. I pray everyday that God will show me the way to him and also reveal to me how I can live in his glory and what he wants me to do with my life. I will admit, he hasn't answered yet but I have no doubt that he will someday. :D

This, to me, sounds like the typical young Christian given a measure of faith by God who is cultivating that faith to maturity.
Dont ever let mans reasoning and logic stifle the growth of that faith.

 

[Guest]

True, but one would hope we are past such semantical arguments. I think most folks here understand that faith sufficient to be saved is not as great as the faith Jesus had to pray for a miracle and have no doubt it would happen. That is 100% faith, which none of us have. This what me and Veritas were talking about, and I assumed any thoughtful, sincere reader could grasp that. The less thoughtful, pedantic, insincere one's I really don't care about, to tell the truth.

Agreed. Sadly, for some people, their opinion is more important than engaging their brothers with humility and acknowledging that their understanding could be wrong.

 

[follower of Christ]

Agreed. Sadly, for some people, their opinion is more important than engaging their brothers with humility and acknowledging that their understanding could be wrong.

I agree, M.
Sadly for some people their OPINION is more important.......and they refuse to accept that their OWN understanding might be wrong.
You know the type...the ones who cannot accept GODS word as to what BIBLICAL faith is....

But if any of you lacks wisdom, let him ask of God, who gives to all liberally and with no reproach, and it shall be given to him.
But let him ask in faith, doubting nothing.
For he who doubts is like a wave of the sea, driven by the wind and tossed.
For do not let that man think that he shall receive anything from the Lord;
(Jas 1:5-7 MKJV)

But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him. (Hebrews 11:6)

 

[JoJo]

I chose option 2 for a few reasons...

- I am a new believer just becoming a Christian in April of this year. I am still learning what it means to be a Christian and still coming to terms with my past and how that now applies to my new found beliefs.

- I still have my doubts. Not all of the time. But there are times when I challenge myself and where I think to myself "Is this really true?" I think if ask a majority of Christians they would tell you that they have these fleeting moments of doubt or questioning as well as times in their lives where their faith might waver a bit.

This is why I chose #2. My faith gets stronger everyday. I pray everyday that God will show me the way to him and also reveal to me how I can live in his glory and what he wants me to do with my life. I will admit, he hasn't answered yet but I have no doubt that he will someday. :D

Aero, I want you to know that I understand your position. Not that my opinion matters, but that, based on my previous posts in the original thread, you may feel that I would look down on your choice of #2. I do not look down on you, no. But I believe some who chose #2 perhaps underestimated their faith.

It would appear that you and some others seem to be exercising humility (JMO), which is commendable. But this isn't about humility or pride. This is about claiming a knowledge that God exists. That is faith. It is about standing firm against those fleeting doubts and not entertaining them. I believe that we can rightly and humbly claim 100% faith in God when we say that He exists. If we cannot say with 100% surety that God exists, then we are not really believing, we are just weighing the options, measuring, hoping and wishfully thinking that we might possibly be right. That is not faith.

But I see something different in you. You said, "I pray everyday that God will show me the way to him and also reveal to me how I can live in his glory and what he wants me to do with my life. I will admit, he hasn't answered yet but I have no doubt that he will someday."

I think you underestimated your faith by choosing #2. :yes

 

[JoJo]

True, but one would hope we are past such semantical arguments. I think most folks here understand that faith sufficient to be saved is not as great as the faith Jesus had to pray for a miracle and have no doubt it would happen. That is 100% faith, which none of us have. This what me and Veritas were talking about, and I assumed any thoughtful, sincere reader could grasp that. The less thoughtful, pedantic, insincere one's I really don't care about, to tell the truth.

Agreed. Sadly, for some people, their opinion is more important than engaging their brothers with humility and acknowledging that their understanding could be wrong.

I can't acknowledge that my understanding (that God exists) could be wrong. To do so would be to deny my faith in God's existence. I can't and I wouldn't deny God's existence. This is not about humility or pride. It is about assurance.

 

[Guest]

I can't acknowledge that my understanding (that God exists) could be wrong. To do so would be to deny my faith in God's existence. I can't and I wouldn't deny God's existence. This is not about humility or pride. It is about assurance.

I disagree, oh well.

 

[JoJo]

Perhaps until you can discern the difference between "assurance" and "arrogance" you will continue judging others for what you most often wrongly view as arrogance. But do you not see the irony?

 

[Guest]

Perhaps until you can discern the difference between "assurance" and "arrogance" you will continue judging others for what you most often wrongly view as arrogance. But do you not see the irony?

Do I?

I can't acknowledge that my understanding (that God exists) could be wrong.

I do indeed.

 

[follower of Christ]

Perhaps until you can discern the difference between "assurance" and "arrogance" you will continue judging others for what you most often wrongly view as arrogance. But do you not see the irony?

Great post, JoJo.
I cant figure out why some feel the need to condemn someone for actually HAVING such a faith in God. Seems to me that PAUL or Jesus would have ENCOURAGED it.
Its almost as tho those that dont have that faith would prefer dragging those who do down instead of trying to find out how those with the faith got where they are. The attitudes here certainly dont make me want to share my own faith building experiences with some.

 

[JoJo]

Perhaps until you can discern the difference between "assurance" and "arrogance" you will continue judging others for what you most often wrongly view as arrogance. But do you not see the irony?

Do I?

I can't acknowledge that my understanding (that God exists) could be wrong.

I do indeed.

No! That is not arrogance. That is assurance.

I can humbly believe in God's existence. In fact, it is more humble to set aside my pride and reliance on my own personal ability to reason God's existence. I believe because He says, "I AM."

It is not pride to listen to God speak.

 

[JoJo]

And minnesota, I added italics to the word, "can't" for a reason.

 

[follower of Christ]

I can humbly believe in God's existence. In fact, it is more humble to set aside my pride and reliance on my own personal ability to reason God's existence. I believe because He says, "I AM."

It is not pride to listen to God speak.

Amen !

 

[follower of Christ]

And minnesota, I added italics to the word, "can't" for a reason.

Exactly !
My guess is that the reason isnt understood by some.
"Cant" is the perfect word.
I would be lying to myself to say that I dont believe in God in an absolute sense. I would be lying to everyone else if i said such a thing to them.

 

[JoJo]

Perhaps until you can discern the difference between "assurance" and "arrogance" you will continue judging others for what you most often wrongly view as arrogance. But do you not see the irony?

Great post, JoJo.
I cant figure out why some feel the need to condemn someone for actually HAVING such a faith in God. Seems to me that PAUL or Jesus would have ENCOURAGED it.
Its almost as tho those that dont have that faith would prefer dragging those who do down instead of trying to find out how those with the faith got where they are. The attitudes here certainly dont make me want to share my own faith building experiences with some.

Thanks, follower. But NEVER allow others' doubts dissuade you from sharing your faith. If I know I am right with God, that is all that matters. And I know that by claiming faith in Him, I am not being arrogant and I am right with God in this assurance. If someone else wants to call that arrogance, that is to their shame.