A Spiritual Revolution

[Solo]

You state that you (assume) that there is no reliable way to know what Jesus actually believed. The following is my entire answer. Note that I posted that unless you repent, believe, and follow Jesus you will not be able to know Jesus, nor will you be able to reliably know what Jesus believed. You said point blank that there is no reliable way to know what Jesus believed, and I posted that unless one repents, believes, and follows Jesus there is no way to know what Jesus believed. I say we disagree since you passed right over the born again experience that gives a believer the Spirit of Christ to dwell within them, teaching them the mind of Jesus through the scriptures.

So you disagree with me, on a point that I wasn't talking about, and where it is obvious that you would disagree with me. That's good.

You may not understand your own point, but those that read this thread can plainly see your attempt to make an assertion about not being able to reliably know what Jesus thinks when in fact you can if you know him and know the Word.

 

[DivineNames]

You may not understand your own point, but those that read this thread can plainly see your attempt to make an assertion about not being able to reliably know what Jesus thinks when in fact you can if you know him and know the Word.

"First one must repent, then believe, and then follow him. Apart from that process there will be no reliable way to know Jesus or what he believed."

Which does seem to imply that judged from the ordinary perspective, the Bible can't be trusted as necessarily reliable. I think that comes across very clearly. That was my point.

 

[Solo]

You may not understand your own point, but those that read this thread can plainly see your attempt to make an assertion about not being able to reliably know what Jesus thinks when in fact you can if you know him and know the Word.

"First one must repent, then believe, and then follow him. Apart from that process there will be no reliable way to know Jesus or what he believed."

Which does seem to imply that judged from the ordinary perspective, the Bible can't be trusted as necessarily reliable. I think that comes across very clearly. That was my point.

Oh, I see. Your point is that from the perspective that the Bible is incorrect or wrong, then there is no reliable way to know what Jesus believed.

Whether one believes the Bible or not, the fact is mentioned in the Bible that God reveals himself, even the Godhead, in his creation; therefore noone has an excuse for rejecting him.

16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek. 17 For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith. 18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness;

19 Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them. 20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse: 21 Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened. Romans 1:19-21

 

[PHIL121]

Hahah! God will be lucky if I forgive him! After the things I have undergone for being 'gay' in his name!

If you even THINK that God ought to forgive YOU, you're obviously not a Christian.

Even in my deepest deepest despair (and that's been pretty deep!) where I have raged against God, I never been so self-righteous to ask God to apologize for ANYTHING, let alone for some activity that is CLEARLY sinful.

 

[AHIMSA]

If a product is faulty, who do you blame? Do you not blame whoever manufacutered it?

Why is it different when it comes to God?

 

[Solo]

If a product is faulty, who do you blame? Do you not blame whoever manufacutered it?

Why is it different when it comes to God?

31 And God saw every thing that he had made, and, behold, it was very good. And the evening and the morning were the sixth day. Genesis 1:31

Disobedience to the owners manual will bring about broken vessels. If one does not follow the owners manual of a product, the manufacturer can not be blamed, and the warranty is null and void.

 

[bibleberean]

People are not products. They have free will and can make choices.

We can choose to follow God or be effeminate cry babies.

Anyone with bad habits can blame God for their problems using the asinine logic of some...

Proverbs 24:7-9 Wisdom is too high for a fool: he openeth not his mouth in the gate. He that deviseth to do evil shall be called a mischievous person. The thought of foolishness is sin: and the scorner is an abomination to men.

 

[PHIL121]

People are not products. They have free will and can make choices.

Very true, although our materialist society seems to be trying to change that.

 

[DivineNames]

Oh, I see. Your point is that from the perspective that the Bible is incorrect or wrong, then there is no reliable way to know what Jesus believed.

No. My point was that what you yourself said, seems to imply that the Bible can't be trusted as necessarily reliable, if viewed from the ordinary perspective. (i.e. without going down the Christian spiritual path)

 

[Solo]

Oh, I see. Your point is that from the perspective that the Bible is incorrect or wrong, then there is no reliable way to know what Jesus believed.

No. My point was that what you yourself said, seems to imply that the Bible can't be trusted as necessarily reliable, if viewed from the ordinary perspective. (i.e. without going down the Christian spiritual path)

You are changing horses in midstream. Your original post that I answered was as follows:

I would think its erroneous for anyone "New Age" to try to borrow Jesus for the cause. For one thing, (I assume) that there is no reliable way to know what Jesus actually believed, so its both uncritical, and a complete waste of time from the start.

I answered with the following:

I understand your lack of ability to know what Jesus actually believed.
First one must repent, then believe, and then follow him. Apart from that process there will be no reliable way to know Jesus or what he believed.

You replied,

So you agree with me then, that looked at from the ordinary perspective, the Bible can't be trusted as necessarily reliable.

Your original quote said nothing about the Bible, your original point was that there was no reliable way to know what Jesus actually believed. I am assuming that you were trying to make the point that those that hold the Bible suspect and/or unreliable that there is no reliable way to know what Jesus actually believed. I agree with you, that if individuals do not believe the Bible as being truth, then they have no bearing to establish anything about Jesus. That is precisely why satan has tried to remove the scriptures from public discourse throughout history and throughout the future until he is destroyed. God however has revealed himself and can continue to reveal himself to individuals through his creation as he has throughout history, and faith in God has been acclaimed for saving all from Adam to present. Read Hebrews 11.

 

[DivineNames]

***

 

[DivineNames]

Your original quote said nothing about the Bible

But this is the major source of info on the matter. If I say that I assume you can't reliably know what Jesus believed, then this obviously involves the Bible! Stop trying to sidestep.

your original point was that there was no reliable way to know what Jesus actually believed. I am assuming that you were trying to make the point that those that hold the Bible suspect and/or unreliable that there is no reliable way to know what Jesus actually believed. I agree with you, that if individuals do not believe the Bible as being truth, then they have no bearing to establish anything about Jesus. That is precisely why satan has tried to remove the scriptures from public discourse throughout history...

No, my point was obviously that the Bible is suspect. Stop trying to sidestep.


"Apart from that process" is what you said, which implies that the Bible can't be trusted as necessarily reliable, from the ordinary perspective.

 

[Solo]

Your original quote said nothing about the Bible

But this is the major source of info on the matter. If I say that I assume you can't reliably know what Jesus believed, then this obviously involves the Bible! Stop trying to sidestep.

your original point was that there was no reliable way to know what Jesus actually believed. I am assuming that you were trying to make the point that those that hold the Bible suspect and/or unreliable that there is no reliable way to know what Jesus actually believed. I agree with you, that if individuals do not believe the Bible as being truth, then they have no bearing to establish anything about Jesus. That is precisely why satan has tried to remove the scriptures from public discourse throughout history...

No, my point was obviously that the Bible is suspect. Stop trying to sidestep.


"Apart from that process" is what you said, which implies that the Bible can't be trusted as necessarily reliable, from the ordinary perspective.

It appears that I have had to sidestep in order to follow you through the web that you have weaved, dear. Be clear that words convey meaning, and without using the proper words and sentence structure, an immediate lack of understanding lies at the door. Mind reading of a poster's intent is not an available resource at this forum. Sorry.

 

[DivineNames]

Be clear that words convey meaning, and without using the proper words and sentence structure, an immediate lack of understanding lies at the door. Mind reading of a poster's intent is not an available resource at this forum. Sorry.

"I am assuming that you were trying to make the point that those that hold the Bible suspect and/or unreliable that there is no reliable way to know what Jesus actually believed"


If that is what I had been saying, how would it have made sense in the context of the point I was making? (I was saying that it would be erroneous for anyone "New Age" to borrow Jesus for the cause)


I don't think you need to be a mind reader to understand what I was saying.

 

[DivineNames]

I understand your lack of ability to know what Jesus actually believed. First one must repent, then believe, and then follow him. Apart from that process there will be no reliable way to know Jesus or what he believed.

"Apart from that process there will be no reliable way to know Jesus or what he believed"

What you said is very clear. The study of the Bible (without repenting etc.) falls outside of that process. It follows that the study of the Bible (without repenting etc.) is not a "reliable way to know Jesus or what he believed".

From the ordinary perspective, the Bible can't be trusted as reliable. This is implied by what you said, but you obviously wish to backtrack.

 

[bibleberean]

The bible shows what Jesus believed and taught.

To believe or not to believe. That is the question...

1 John 5:9 If we receive the witness of men, the witness of God is greater: for this is the witness of God which he hath testified of his Son.

1 John 5:10 He that believeth on the Son of God hath the witness in himself: he that believeth not God hath made him a liar; because he believeth not the record that God gave of his Son.

1 John 5:11 And this is the record, that God hath given to us eternal life, and this life is in his Son.

1 John 5:12 He that hath the Son hath life; and he that hath not the Son of God hath not life.

1 John 5:13 These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God.

This is good news for believers and bad news for non-believers.

John 3:36 He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.

2 Corinthians 4:3-4 But if our gospel be hid, it is hid to them that are lost: In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.

The clock is ticking and time is running out...

 

[PHIL121]

The clock is ticking and time is running out...

Only for those who DON'T believe..

 

[bibleberean]

The clock is ticking and time is running out...

Only for those who DON'T believe..

Amen!

 

[soma]

Yes, Jesus is the way and is truth, perfection ect. so we should follow the signs, not run over them. Jesus is showing the way pointing, not need to run over his fingers. Truth, love, and everything else Jesus taught is the way and he is the example, but there are many examples of love and compassion. I don't think Jesus would want us to use his image to beat down other compassionate, religious individuals who are following Christ example under another name. The first post was very thoughtful and was full of love. The post bashing it showed no compassion. Monkeys throw dung.

Yes, the arrival of Christ in Christ consciousness is an event that attracts widespread concern because it is linked up with some unbelievable happenings that everyone is able to see. This is of great importance because the revelations are realized; the eyes start to open, the mind understands and sees the things that are true. This coming is in humility and inreverence to Christ it enters the hearts of anyone Christian or non Christian who truly understands love becasue it is a consciousness that illuminates the mind letting people see things in a different perspective. In everyone there is a nerve that answers to the shivers of love. It is sad when Christians show more hate than love. Just saying the name of Jesus doesn't make one a Christian.

 

[Solo]

What you have determined as hate may simply be information that you refuse to accept as truth. Perhaps Jesus taught that non-believers do not have the love that is required by God the Father. Perhaps your conception of love is erroneous. Love is not fluff and acceptance of all beliefs; love requires truth and warnings of error to those who are lost and on their way to hell.

36 But I have greater witness than that of John: for the works which the Father hath given me to finish, the same works that I do, bear witness of me, that the Father hath sent me. 37 And the Father himself, which hath sent me, hath borne witness of me. Ye have neither heard his voice at any time, nor seen his shape. 38 And ye have not his word abiding in you: for whom he hath sent, him ye believe not. 39 Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me. 40 And ye will not come to me, that ye might have life. 41 I receive not honour from men. 42 But I know you, that ye have not the love of God in you. 43 I am come in my Father's name, and ye receive me not: if another shall come in his own name, him ye will receive. 44 How can ye believe, which receive honour one of another, and seek not the honour that cometh from God only? John 5:36-43