A Third of Heaven...really?

[Heaven Spent]

No one has ever explained this to me, but hopefully someone here can.


So The Lord expelled Lucifer and his rebel angels into hell. Lucifer had a following of 1/3 Heaven's angels. That's 1 in every 3.

It makes me wonder, if Heaven is a paradise beyond human understanding, and these beings walk in the presence of the Lord, how could so many fall? Even if Lucifer was an idiot, what possessed 1/3 of the angels to say, "Lucifer's right, this place sucks. Let's follow him"????

One Third...33.3% of Heaven is gone. 33.3% weren't happy with Heaven. As a person of faith, this alarms me to the state of Heaven. What is heaven and why did so many rebel against it? Furthermore, is Heaven an eternal place....I mean, sure it goes on forever. But if we die and go to Heaven, are we guaranteed (sp?) that once we're in we're golden? Is there some transgression we could perform in Heaven that would banish us once we're in? Can we voluntarily leave if we want to? And if Heaven isn't permanent, than is hell? Does Hitler suffer forever in hell along side some guy who got drunk, had sex with a stripper in Kansas, and died in a car accident? After 20,000 years of fire and snakes, he can't say, "Sorry God, I won't drink again. Seriously, this is why I am sharing a room with Hitler?"

And God doesn't seem like the kind of Creator that likes shiftless lay-a-bouts. So it stands to reason every angel had their tasks and duties to perform. But Heaven is now short staffed by 33.3% So how well is Heaven functioning now? Well, with an Eternal, Omnipotent and Omnipresent God, it's easy to argue that Heaven is running just fine. So technically, the angels, who do serve a purpose, generally aren't "needed" are they? I mean, Heaven ran fine for a Bajillion-Bagillion years before he even created angels right? And they certainly weren't created to "ease his burden" as that would show weakness...God is not weak, he is all powerful. It is been said that his creation was created as a means of companionship, a desire to fellowship with his creation, yet if 1/3 of Heaven says "Bah Humbug" to Heaven...than what kind of a relationship is he demanding?


Just some thoughts that run thru my head.

 

[Danus]

No one has ever explained this to me, but hopefully someone here can.


So The Lord expelled Lucifer and his rebel angels into hell. Lucifer had a following of 1/3 Heaven's angels. That's 1 in every 3.

It makes me wonder, if Heaven is a paradise beyond human understanding, and these beings walk in the presence of the Lord, how could so many fall? Even if Lucifer was an idiot, what possessed 1/3 of the angels to say, "Lucifer's right, this place *bleep*. Let's follow him"????

One Third...33.3% of Heaven is gone. 33.3% weren't happy with Heaven. As a person of faith, this alarms me to the state of Heaven. What is heaven and why did so many rebel against it? Furthermore, is Heaven an eternal place....I mean, sure it goes on forever. But if we die and go to Heaven, are we guaranteed (sp?) that once we're in we're golden? Is there some transgression we could perform in Heaven that would banish us once we're in? Can we voluntarily leave if we want to? And if Heaven isn't permanent, than is hell? Does Hitler suffer forever in hell along side some guy who got drunk, had sex with a stripper in Kansas, and died in a car accident? After 20,000 years of fire and snakes, he can't say, "Sorry God, I won't drink again. Seriously, this is why I am sharing a room with Hitler?"

And God doesn't seem like the kind of Creator that likes shiftless lay-a-bouts. So it stands to reason every angel had their tasks and duties to perform. But Heaven is now short staffed by 33.3% So how well is Heaven functioning now? Well, with an Eternal, Omnipotent and Omnipresent God, it's easy to argue that Heaven is running just fine. So technically, the angels, who do serve a purpose, generally aren't "needed" are they? I mean, Heaven ran fine for a Bajillion-Bagillion years before he even created angels right? And they certainly weren't created to "ease his burden" as that would show weakness...God is not weak, he is all powerful. It is been said that his creation was created as a means of companionship, a desire to fellowship with his creation, yet if 1/3 of Heaven says "Bah Humbug" to Heaven...than what kind of a relationship is he demanding?


Just some thoughts that run thru my head.

Good questions, but I think this post would be better served in the Apologetics and Theology section.

 

[Blazin Bones]

I agree. Thread Moved.

 

[Danus]

Heaven Spent, before I can engage you on this, can you tell me what verses in the bible you are referring to? Could it be Revelation 12?

 

[Heaven Spent]

Revelation:12:9: And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.

Although I dont want to turn this into a cut-n-paste volley of biblical scripture...I just want our honest thoughts and feelings on the issue.

 

[Adstar]

No one has ever explained this to me, but hopefully someone here can.


So The Lord expelled Lucifer and his rebel angels into hell. Lucifer had a following of 1/3 Heaven's angels. That's 1 in every 3.

It makes me wonder, if Heaven is a paradise beyond human understanding, and these beings walk in the presence of the Lord, how could so many fall? Even if Lucifer was an idiot, what possessed 1/3 of the angels to say, "Lucifer's right, this place *bleep*. Let's follow him"????

One Third...33.3% of Heaven is gone. 33.3% weren't happy with Heaven. As a person of faith, this alarms me to the state of Heaven. What is heaven and why did so many rebel against it?

It was never about the conditions of heaven nor the Perfection of God. It was the desire of Lucifer to be a God and the 33.3% of the angels are with Him in that desire. They want to be the equal of God. But there can only bo one God. YAVEH.

Furthermore, is Heaven an eternal place....I mean, sure it goes on forever. But if we die and go to Heaven, are we guaranteed (sp?) that once we're in we're golden?

We will be with The Lord Forever. That is what Scriptures state. Now that may not be in heaven it may be in the New Jerusalem that comes down, Look in the Book of Revelation in the last chapters.

Is there some transgression we could perform in Heaven that would banish us once we're in? Can we voluntarily leave if we want to? And if Heaven isn't permanent, than is hell?

Once we accept His will then we have rejected the temptation of satan who said "you will be like God"

As for Hell. Read the book of Revelation chapter 20 and you will know.

Does Hitler suffer forever in hell along side some guy who got drunk, had sex with a stripper in Kansas, and died in a car accident?

If he rejected the atonement of the Messiah Jesus. Yes.

We do not have eternity with God for being less evil then the next person. We have eternity with God when we accept the loving gift of Atonement for our imperfection. That is offered to us through the Messiah Jesus.

And God doesn't seem like the kind of Creator that likes shiftless lay-a-bouts. So it stands to reason every angel had their tasks and duties to perform. But Heaven is now short staffed by 33.3%

The Book of Revelation is a book of Prophecy. Correct? So how do you know the battle in heaven has happened and satan has been cast out yet? It may still be future. Also Why do you think that Heaven is dependant on angels for its running?

So how well is Heaven functioning now? Well, with an Eternal, Omnipotent and Omnipresent God, it's easy to argue that Heaven is running just fine. So technically, the angels, who do serve a purpose, generally aren't "needed" are they?

Needed and Wanted are two different things. Agree? I guess when it is all boiled down God needs no one at all. But the will of God is for Angels and Humans to exists.

I mean, Heaven ran fine for a Bajillion-Bagillion years before he even created angels right? And they certainly weren't created to "ease his burden" as that would show weakness...God is not weak, he is all powerful. It is been said that his creation was created as a means of companionship, a desire to fellowship with his creation, yet if 1/3 of Heaven says "Bah Humbug" to Heaven...than what kind of a relationship is he demanding?

The only one that any Human desires i guess. One where the other wants to be with you. One where the other has the oprion of rejecting you. One cannot chose to be with God without the option and ability to desire to be seperate from God.

Just some thoughts that run thru my head.

Cool. But realise also that your human and for that matter so am I. That means we are imperfect and that means our thinking can be imperfect. And When it comes to figuring out God,, well...


All Praise The Ancient Of Days

 

[Heaven Spent]

The Book of Revelation is a book of Prophecy. Correct? So how do you know the battle in heaven has happened and satan has been cast out yet? It may still be future. Also Why do you think that Heaven is dependant on angels for its running?

Gotta admit, haven't heard that theory before. Very interesting. So your contention is that Lucifer could STILL be in Heaven? That really doesn't make a whole lotta sense. I mean, if your Lucifer and you read this book, and see what your fate is, and know God is unbeatable, wouldn't you rethink your strategy? If not Lucifer, at least the majority of the angels should be like, "I'm not following that idiot out of heaven."

 

[Danus]

Revelation:12:9: And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.

Although I dont want to turn this into a cut-n-paste volley of biblical scripture...I just want our honest thoughts and feelings on the issue.

Not a big study of revelations, but I'll give it some thought and research. It's a book filled with symbolism and many interpretations from my understanding. I do believe the events outlined in Rev are yet to come. for one thing, but I'll leave you with this for now. Which is more 1/3 or 2/3. based solely on that I think we can conclude that haven is preferred.

 

[Bick]

No one has ever explained this to me, but hopefully someone here can."


"So The Lord expelled Lucifer and his rebel angels into hell. Lucifer had a following of 1/3 Heaven's angels. That's 1 in every 3."

MY COMMENTS: Yes, we read in Revelation 12:7-9 that in the future, in the middle of the Great Tribulation, Satan and 1/3 of the angels of heaven are cast down out of heaven to the earth.

"It makes me wonder, if Heaven is a paradise beyond human understanding, and these beings walk in the presence of the Lord, how could so many fall? Even if Lucifer was an idiot, what possessed 1/3 of the angels to say, "Lucifer's right, this place *bleep*. Let's follow him"????

MY COMMENTS: I agree. How is it angels (messengers) in the presence of God, can choose to follow Satan? It is hard to comprehend.
I know "paradise" is associated with "heaven", but it's literal meaning is "a park like grounds". The three places "paradise" is used in Scripture, to me, are referring to a beautiful park like area on the earth: First, in the restored land and Jerusalem in the Millennium (Ezek. 36:33-35); and Second, in the New Jerusalem on the New Earth (Rev. 2:7).

It is true that Paul, in a vision, was caught away (up..AV...not in the Greek) to the third heaven (2 Cor. 12:2); caught away into the paradise and heard inexpressible words, not lawful for men to utter(2 Cor. 12:4). In my opinion, this "third heaven" was the third heaven chronologically....as to time. Bick.

"One Third...33.3% of Heaven is gone. 33.3% weren't happy with Heaven. As a person of faith, this alarms me to the state of Heaven. What is heaven and why did so many rebel against it? Furthermore, is Heaven an eternal place....I mean, sure it goes on forever. But if we die and go to Heaven, are we guaranteed (sp?) that once we're in we're golden? Is there some transgression we could perform in Heaven that would banish us once we're in? Can we voluntarily leave if we want to? And if Heaven isn't permanent, than is hell? Does Hitler suffer forever in hell along side some guy who got drunk, had sex with a stripper in Kansas, and died in a car accident? After 20,000 years of fire and snakes, he can't say, "Sorry God, I won't drink again. Seriously, this is why I am sharing a room with Hitler?"

MY COMMENTS: What exactly the Heaven of God is like isn't revealed too much. I think to help us humans focus on a place called "Heaven", we say "Our Father who art in heaven", etc, but there are verses in the OT that say "the heaven of heavens cannot contain Him." See 1 KIngs 8:27; 2 Chr. 2:6; 6:18; Neh. 9:6. So God God dwells in the whole universe. But, to say that one third of Heaven is gone because one third of the angels will be cast out, is illogical.

As for "heaven" being an eternal place; if we assume it is located among the stars, then I would have to say that location is not eternal, for we are told in the Scriptures:

Isa 34:4 "All the host of heaven shall be dissolved, And the heavens shall be rolled up like a scroll; All their host shall fall down As the leaf falls from the vine, And as fruit falling from a fig tree." NKJ

Mt 5:18 "For assuredly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, one jot or one tittle will by no means pass from the law till all is fulfilled." NKJ

2Pe 3:10 "But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night, in which the heavens will pass away with a great noise, and the elements will melt with fervent heat; both the earth and the works that are in it will be burned up.."

2Pe 3:12 "..looking for and hastening the coming of the day of God, because of which the heavens will be dissolved, being on fire, and the elements will melt with fervent.."

2Pe 3:13 "Nevertheless we, according to His promise, look for new heavens and a new earth in which righteousness dwells." NKJ

The most exciting and glorious future for believers in the church/body of Christ is revealed in Ephesians Chapts 1 through 3, even that we will be in the heavenlies, being blessed with every spiritual blessing as heirs of God and joint-heirs with Christ (1:3; 2:5-7).
No description is given of "heaven" because the word is "heavenlies" which can include the whole universe.
Indeed, we, the church/body will be witnessing to the principalities and powers (spirit beings) in the heavenlies (where ever they are in the universe) concerning the manifold wisdom of God according to His eonian purpose which He accomplished in Christ Jesus (3:10-11). Bick.

"And God doesn't seem like the kind of Creator that likes shiftless lay-a-bouts. So it stands to reason every angel had their tasks and duties to perform. But Heaven is now short staffed by 33.3% So how well is Heaven functioning now? Well, with an Eternal, Omnipotent and Omnipresent God, it's easy to argue that Heaven is running just fine. So technically, the angels, who do serve a purpose, generally aren't "needed" are they? I mean, Heaven ran fine for a Bajillion-Bagillion years before he even created angels right? And they certainly weren't created to "ease his burden" as that would show weakness...God is not weak, he is all powerful. It is been said that his creation was created as a means of companionship, a desire to fellowship with his creation, yet if 1/3 of Heaven says "Bah Humbug" to Heaven...than what kind of a relationship is he demanding?"


"Just some thoughts that run thru my head."

MY COMMENTS: Actually, we are not told how far in the past Satan controlled 1/3 of the angels (messengers). For he, Satan, has his own kingdom, as we know from Jesus' being tempted by Satan, and Satan must get inputs from his angels. Certainly, Satan is powerful, but God/Christ are All Powerful.
God is not being fooled: His plans will come to completion. Bick.